Craft Skill Limitations

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Originally Posted by Totema

Was this implemented in the update? Not seeing it anywhere in the update logs.

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No, it's been put on hold for the time being.

Crafting:
- Raise of 80 from 40 should be fine. It'll be nice to do more crafting after 100/60/60/etc. It'd be nice to make stuff just out of my reach too.
- Do bring back the end game synthing stuff. This was sorta done with the aptant armors and I love it, but I know everyone just powerlevels past those armors. It makes me sad face.
- "Synth All" i think was kinda implemented with certain KI (like tirturation, or sheet making). Making "synth all" feels rather bot-ish.
- DO NOT MAKE GUILD POINTS AVAILABLE ACROSS ALL CRAFTS. This will ruin crafting as people will get KI's across the board and screw with the economy.

Chocobo Digging:
- increase the Stack of greens to 99.
- increase the maximum items per zone

I feel lonely in not wanting Cooking to be a free 100 craft like fishing, as suggested earlier a couple of times! :confused:

This is a little rambly, but I've always enjoyed the culinarian line of synthesis as my main craft, and there is no shortage of chefs filling up the food markets or taking up the craft as it is. It would only provide even more competition and less of a market for those who chose to save money and make a steady income off of one category of consumable item rather than hit it big from a lottery off of a lucky synthesis (once upon a time--I realize this is hardly applicable lately). I did not pick this craft to fund another, but because I've always thoroughly enjoyed the prospect of making and selling delectable dishes. Unless mastering all crafts becomes an option, I don't see why it makes sense to make cooking a free 100 skill like fishing. Players have a choice in what crafts they would like to master, and cooking was neither forced upon nor restricted from anyone, and you can level/delevel it easily at any time if you want/dislike it that much. A Linkshell member spent this last week (with a job and house hunting) boosting cooking from 60 to 96ish for Dawn Mulsum - it's not a huge loss if you want it, it's not a huge loss if you want to get rid of it.

In response to a very early post in this thread, fishing does not only go hand-in-hand with cooking, where it mostly benefits chefs who have invested in Raw Fish Handling and some lower demand items - which not all chefs solely specialize in: it also provides Alchemy and Woodworking materials (ink, poison, paralysis, furnishing materials). Cooking also does have a handful of subcrafts within its synths: woodworking and clothcraft are two sub-crafts used in high-level cooking recipes, for example, and there is also a need for items created from other crafts, such as Maple Sugar if San d'Oria is in last and you don't have any saved as back-up. At least on Bismarck, there are enough chefs to keep prices reasonable in regard to ingredient price and rarity, and there is no shortage of competition for ingredients in popular dishes. I can already name at least 10 active chefs with whom I compete in various markets. I don't understand the basis of the argument for making high-leveled Cooking a free craft.

Erm, but I am all in favor of having another craft at 100 (or my considered one craft at 61, one at 80, and one at... 79?--however that maths out). :D

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"Synth All" i think was kinda implemented with certain KI (like tirturation, or sheet making). Making "synth all" feels rather bot-ish.

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expanding the items that can be crafted at once is welcomed too, the "Craft all" is a known feature in almost every MMO I played that has crafting, its a legitimate feature before its a bot.
I guess the "don't know any better" still applies to this community..:(

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DO NOT MAKE GUILD POINTS AVAILABLE ACROSS ALL CRAFTS. This will ruin crafting as people will get KI's across the board and screw with the economy.

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huh? :confused:..you know, you can always get any KI/items from any guild, this isn't something new (what you can buy is limited by your crafting skill already), removing the limitation on accumulating guild points will only makes the process faster, otherwise it would take years to gather ~300k (sub)-600k(main)~ GP for each craft one by one. something tells me you dont have many sub-crafts at 60...
plus the limitation is already lifted by simply having crafting mules, I don't see how this have ever screwed the economy...

Yes please raise the cap

While I enjoy synergy and am in the process of leveling it up, I hate that normal crafts are all but stagnant save a few synths (primarily cursed gear and consumables). I've also noticed (on Siren server at least) that the consumables made with synergy are so overpriced based on their mats simply because there are so few people making them. Things like oberon bullets have never sold in stacks of 12 pouches on the auction house. I've resorted to buying consumables far below what I consider the acceptable level (Iron Bullets or below for corsair) simply due to a lack of supply, and the minimal supply an the Auction House is typically drastically overpriced based on the material cost. Most of these consumables take a high level craft, so you cannot synergize them yourself unless you happened to have leveld that craft. Before the 75 cap was raised and the highest level consumables were all from synergy, I was able to make steel and iron bullets for corsair with smithing and alchemy as subcrafts without any issues. Now even if I had synergy to the proper level, I would not be able to make the newer bullets without a proper craft rank in my party, which tends to be difficult to find. This follows in the same vein as arrows and the higher bullets that rangers can use. I see many rangers reverting to demon/scorpion arrows etc simply because the supply for them is higher and they are not severely overpriced as well.

I don't mean to complain, but I feel as though it is ridiculous that EVERY new craft is actually a new synergy recipe, and the new synthesis recipes are typically just to make materials for the synergy recipe that makes the end product. While this is fine for armor I suppose, I would much prefer synergy to be for what it was originally released with - not so much the evolith system itself but the concept of the weapons and armor in that you would have to seek out the materials (in some cases r/ex drops from notorious monsters) and synergize them with a small group of people to have the most desirable result. I feel as though the teamwork in synergizing to turn your earned r/ex materials into a usable piece of gear was pretty exciting, especially when the same group that fought for the materials helped you synergize them into something usable.

Yes, there should be some profit synergy recipes, and some armor should be synergized, but making all consumables and equipment recipes synergy and none synthesis just seems unfair, and skews the market way too much. Right now there just aren't enough synergists with the proper 100 crafts to supply the auction house with the number of consumables that it should have. For instance, while I may finish my synergy to the current cap, I would be unable to make any consumables because I do not have woodworking or smithing above 60. While I would be happy if veteran smiths and woodworkers could simply synthesize consumables, the fact that these recipes are restricted to those crafters that have both synergy and woodworking or both synergy and smithing leveled restricts the market far too much.

/rant off

Another thing related to synergy. I really don't like that once we upgrade a skill we cannot change it. There should be a way to remove it and chose something else. Because there is some debate over which skills are best to lvl, ie safety lever or pressure handle or repair. The only way that I found was to pick 1 and test. But what in the case that we don't like it. I for one did 5/5 repair, which after testing I would not have done. The amount of repair gained from 5/5 is not enough. I would like to drop the 5/5 repair and put it into safety lever.

Please allow us a way to decrease the skills we have for synergy.

Why on Earth did you people try and stop this from happening? YES I want two 100s.

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Originally Posted by Coldbrand

Why on Earth did you people try and stop this from happening? YES I want two 100s.

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Yeah i'm baffled also.

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Originally Posted by Coldbrand

Why on Earth did you people try and stop this from happening? YES I want two 100s.

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That isn't what most of the replies tried to do at all. Most were fine with multiple lv100's and had a lot of "ifs" attached to related related concerns like going past 100 or being required to have lv100 subs on new recipes.

SE didn't say this was never ever happening, they just said they weren't doing it right now.

I for one, am happy that for once we got asked before something was decided - as far as I can recall that has never happened before. If they actually believed most of us posting were dead set against having 2 lv100's..Well I dunno what to say. But that was how I read the post saying it was postponed (not canceled).

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Originally Posted by Coldbrand

Why on Earth did you people try and stop this from happening? YES I want two 100s.

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Yeah, most of us were for raising the caps, but wanted to know exactly what their plans were... And voiced our opinions and concerns as to where this was heading... Which in my opinion is what the purpose of this thread was...

I'm all for raising the caps, but I strongly believe that some severe attention needs to be payed to the existing crafting system before they jump in and start adding things... As it stands crafting is in pretty sad shape, letting people level another to 100 really isn't going to fix that...

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Originally Posted by Coldbrand

Why on Earth did you people try and stop this from happening? YES I want two 100s.

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It's called balance. As things stand, it wouldn't really matter if we could skill all crafts to 100. But imagine for a moment, what if they started caring about crafting again, and they started giving crafts synths that replaced the old money makers. I'll tell you exactly what will happen. You'll get money synth A. You will rejoice. Then, once you realize that all the extra competition is flooding the AH, you'll start getting bitter. Unless you're a cook or alchemist and are the extra competition in the other crafts.

It's a complicated issue. It was for the best that they stop, take a step back, and consider everything. And make no mistake, there is a lot of "everything" to consider. Crafting was/still sorta is a very important part of the FFXI experience. It needs work to recover from the level cap raise.

raise the cap!

I like this idea, but what it actually comes down too prolly been said multiple times here, crafting is now useless gear wise, food/fishing/medicines/ bolts anything like that with craft its an okay craft but we need more gear, more craftable gear. Not gear to just have gear, but better gear worth crafting

Yeah sorry, that was a terrible explanation as to why I can't have my second 100 because of people like you whining. You used a buzz word and then rambled about some hypothetical situation without a structured argument leading up to how it would come to be.

Try again harder if you want, but I'm really hoping we get dual 100s in July.

actuly coldbrand, his point is quite valid. your the one whinning lol

I agree with coldbrand, godofgods you are the one thats whinning

Yeah everyone else is out to stop you all from having dual 100's and crying their eyes out that it's coming eventually. /rolleyes.

I'm pretty much with everyone else who thinks that other things should be focused on first. Dual 100's isn't going to matter much to anyone if you're not able to use them for anything worthwhile.

Do this, fixing crafting is another issue all together, but being able to take two crafts up to 100 is a god-sent.

Yes, please add this feature in. I just started crafting again and this will be very helpful. I do agree with some of the other people that it would be nice if we had more synths added to the normal synthesis. The current ones are a little dead, but I think it would be nice if they got revived.

Synergy was not a bad idea...it would've been better if it were initially a little less complicated. If synergy were used solely to augment equipment/weapons it wouldn't be a problem.

Traditional crafts should be creating the gear, while synergy gets used to augment the pieces for more player specific needs.

Another thing to note is that many of the current gear recipes (low level especially) have really useless stats. It would be nice if we had synths that made more sense. For example, all those low level earrings/rings with elemental only boosts that very few (if any) people ever buy...the best you get is added defense +1 if you HQ. While in some cases these earrings might help lessen the magic dmg received, they are just not very practical. They don't get used and crafters who make them lose a lot of time and gil doing so. Want to revive crafting and improve synergy? Make it so that they are still crafted in the traditional way only, but can get interesting augments through synergy.
Augment examples:
Treasure Hunter +1
Charm +1
Magic atk bonus +1 : associated with the element of the original item.
Magic Def +1: same as above.

As the level of gear increases so should the lvl of augment. It could be implemented same as with merits (i.e. a lvl 20-29 item has + 2 vs a lvl 30-39 with +3).

These are just a few ideas, but they could help with the slow economy and the lost hope of many crafters.

Personally I really don't see the point of any limit whether it is a 40 point or 100 point limit. I hate limits of any kind. The only limit that should exist to me is whatever one that I SELF-IMPOSE. Personally I think the fact that you even have to create mutliple mules to have multiple 100 skills is complete crap especially considering the crappy 8 item delivery system unless u actually bother to level up that mule which is also useless too. I mean who wants to spend more endless hours exping on a new character. I suppose it not an issue for those who have been playing longer than the 2 years I have been but I personally would just like to see the whole system undergo some changes beyond just the skill point.

Well synergy is based upon the ranks you have achieved in each of the base crafts though the enforcement of those ranks to the recipes are a bit weak but i'm not complaining. I dont think that adding another 50 levels to crafting will work at all because the skilling process is already horrible as is past 60 and i dont plan on spending forever and a day trying to get up to 150 and I doubt many others will either. There are plenty of things that can be done to improve what is already there before introducing lot of new stuff. People need to readjust their thinking and fix what is broken with what already exists then add new stuff instead of just throwing new crap on top old broken crap. Oh and this thread is related to all crafting the basic as well as synergy if forgot the original posters subject line.

How about creating items for Empyrean +3 items? :D Breathe life into crafting. Everyone is too GAGA over Abyssea while other elements of the game suffer.

I have what would probably sound like a dumb question about these 40(or possible 80) skill points since this is related to crafting. Ok I have two skills past 60 but neither has quite hit 100 yet (alchemy and cooking both about 70). So anyway let say I get Alchemy to 100 and now I want to switch and make Cooking 100. Is that an one time deal where once i move those 40 points to cooking it is final or can i switch all 40 skill point back and forth between all crafts as many times as I want and need with out having to manually skill up past 60 all over again?

If I dont have to skill up all over again for those crafts past 60 after allocating all 40 points to one craft, then unless they are adding new recipes where the sub craft skill needes is higher than say 80 like (alchemy 100/ Smithing 85) then I really dont see the point in an increas but I guess I would still utilize it if it was available. On the other hand if it works like lowering a merited skill by one level means that if you want to raise that skill back to where it was before you have to regain all the merit points needed to do so then HELL YEA they need to increase those points to like 160 as far as i'm concerned.

I dont really craft for profit because the ah is garbage and everybody basically sells everything at or near what u would get from a npc so why bother listing it and the items that sell for higher are usually harder to get but I guess I could always do Abyssea(sigh). Anyway an answer to this question may help me to decide on whether or not to remove an earlier post so much thanks to anyone that answers this clearly in a YES or NO fashion.

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Originally Posted by Bhujerba

Its "mostly" the level cap increase that affected the game, Abyssea is merely a place to level and obtain the new items, specially the latter, they cant put all the new items on old monsters/areas (they need new outlet for items, to avoid cluttering/etc), plus any level increase will ALWAYS throw any game off-balance, whether its drastic(Abyssea) or not, what was at level cap before will never be the same after, welcome to change.

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I think some of the balance can be regained if they make Abyssea a level cap area where you have to be level 75+ to enter intstead of the current lvl 30. This would force people to go back to partying in the older areas as well as having to use items from the AH of consumables and gear. Yes, welcome to change, but with change you should be able to fix your errors.

This seems like a fantastic change! After leveling my first 100 craft, I have been contemplating leveling another but did not want to have to resort to a mule. Would love to see this go live!

Obtaining the 'phat lewt' is what motivates us. I want to spend my Wednesday nights playing FFXI with my friends working toward obtaining items.

If you want draw people to synergy, include it in this process. If Synergy/Crafting skills were required for Magian Trail upgrades, that would be a huge boost the economy. This should be easy enough to implement.

*Edit* I think I posted this to the wrong thread....

as a person who recently leveled alot of his crafts and sub crafts and synergy to 100 /60 /60 /80 respectively i am extremely disappointed in the synergy system. Now Cloth craft and Goldsmith have great synths they can do and even make very good money. when in retrospect the amount of profitable synths for Smithing leather craft woodworking etc are next to none and the only synths making money are among some of the most difficult synths to do in the game.

There is nothing "positive" about leveling a craft in final fantasy you spend millions of gil and at least a month of your time for what? some crafts cave some synths but its nothing like it was with the level 75 cap. No longer can you level a craft to 100 and feel accomplished now you level and its pointless since every synth that used to be worthwhile is useless now and all other synths are synergy.

I know Se plans to add Dual 100 crafts and 100 synergy and crafts for both , but unless there is revisions made to basic crafts or even attractive crafts for just your BASIC crafter its going to remain something only a few do. Synergy wise there needs to be a small heal or buff to the furnace when doing the harder synths you cant expect a solo player to make these increasingly harder synths. Se really needs to stop punishing players and add some sense of accomplishment when you reach 100 or at least allow skill ups on synergy and the craft your doing .

tldr , make normal crafts , my synergy synths for all crafts , stop punishing crafters and start rewarding them for there work.

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Originally Posted by Zidian

Do this, fixing crafting is another issue all together, but being able to take two crafts up to 100 is a god-sent.

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No god sent is being able to take all crafts to 100 and never having to buy a single item off the ah ever again from you price gougers, lol

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Originally Posted by fredtma

I couldn't agree more, synergy has mess up the whole crafting system

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I disagree the whole crafting system was already screwed to start. I mean when I first got my key item to enchant ingots I was all excited "yea I can enchant all my weapons and armors" only to find out that I can only enchange like a select few ingots and only to make a few selected POS armors/weapons I dont even want to use. Ooooh how about thinking that as my skill past the cap for the recipe that as my skill reaches like 2x the cap that I should be able to hq1 like almost all the time and hq2 and hq3 more often now that my level 60 kill is being used to make a lvl 20 or 30 synth. I dont even bother crafting any more at this point it is all a waste. Even synergy is a waste because it is based on the rank you acquired in craft and after like novice or so skill ups become so rare that you feel like u making no progress what so ever. In addition some of those synergy requires 3 or crafts above craftsman rank I think but with skilling up BASIC crafts as it is where the highest skill up u get is 0.3 in comparison to like 0.5 for normal combat skill up why does anybody bother after reaching 60 I sometimes wonder.

LOL ok I think i'm done ranting.

i say go for it also might walla look intomaybe allowing people to take crafts to 120 but have no items that take more then 100 it will allow people to HQ hard stuff to make easyer. also how about a system were you can buy crafting materials from guild make the next teir of that material and sell back to guild fpr small profit.
I would also like to see a type of store that only sells crafted armors & weapons from crafters is stocked by crafters and sells only the amount of goods sold to them so crafters can move there finished items faster. instead of waiting on something to sell in the aution house they can npc there good in a way that they make money off them and the price wont be unreasonable i would recommend that this store only sell finished products like amror weapons medicines ammo and only stuff that is made no RAR/EX stuff

* Chance of HQ increases with number of members participating in Synergy
* Add more skill up recipes
* Allow members past a particular level the ability to teleport to their respective guild
* Improve GP acquisition by increasing the points obtained and selecting recipes that correspond to materials most available (Alchemy gets screwed on this when the recipe requires a piece of smithing armor no one makes anymore).

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Originally Posted by Yugl

* Chance of HQ increases with number of members participating in Synergy
* Add more skill up recipes
* Allow members past a particular level the ability to teleport to their respective guild
* Improve GP acquisition by increasing the points obtained and selecting recipes that correspond to materials most available (Alchemy gets screwed on this when the recipe requires a piece of smithing armor no one makes anymore).

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Really good ideas, I agree with all of them for sure. A buyable-with-GP ring that has an auto-refillable once a day charge to tele you.

About Evoliths:
I actually came over here from the Evolith thread. When I came back to the game, I thought this was a really cool idea - a controlled augmenting system - but the implementation was poor and the Evoliths available were worse. I got excited when AF3 came out because I thought it would be a make-your-own-relic-armor type of deal rather than the static stuff given. This make-you-own-gear SHOULD be what Evoliths become.

I would like to suggest that Alchemist be able to make non-EX AH-able Evoliths (it would revive alchemy to an extent as there are no high level sought after recipes for alchemy or synergy-alchemy). If done right this would surpass the augmenting system (which I'm not really a fan of). And please just have generic stats that people want (STR+X, Attack+X, Acc+X, etc. and NOT atk vs. slimes +X, etc.)

As a crafter whose only craft is Synergy, my request is this:

Add a recipe that will allow us to level Synergy to 80+ without having to level another craft to 70 or more.

At the moment, you can only get to 70 unless you have another craft levelled

Since Chocobo Digging was mentioned on that list, I just thought copy my post into this discussion.

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Chocobo Digging really does need changes.

Available Items
As a maximum skill digger with a Chocobo raised for max digging stats and a full set of chocobo riding gear including the special digging body piece, it used to be my primary method of making money (combined with crafting what I dug up), but the most profitable directly dug up items (elemental ores and orichalcum ore) plummeted with the introduction of Magian Trials and Abyssea's gold chests (massive supply, itsy-bitsy demand.) It is still possible to make money with digging, but I wouldn't count on it as my main source of income anymore.

Inventory
My main issue these days is still inventory space. To most efficiently use my time, digging requires me to go out with about 20 stacks of Gysahl Greens and enough room for everything I'll dig up without tossing every single junk item (pebbles, I hate you so.) Before, I had no trouble making room for about 40 slots to dig comfortably. These days, I have so many unused seals from Dominion Ops that I eventually want to use, and don't want to discard, plus all the Rare/Ex accessories and items that are not covered by the new storage slips, that I really don't have much room anymore. I have all the inventory expansions that are available, and it's still tight. Once my server finishes its merge, I'd have to go play inventory juggling through the delivery box to make room again.

RMT
My main issue with RMT was that they'd "Dig up" certain zones so no items were left for me when I got there. The fatigue idea stopped individual diggers from 24/7 digging, but they had multiple accounts that they simply rotated... making fatigue only really impact honest players who can't dig 24/7 with different characters. The only thing that really stopped RMT, in my experience, was the drastic drop in price of anything worth digging up. It was no longer profitable for them to abuse the digging system.

3 things that would help bring back Chocobo Digging, for me, would be:

* Gysahl Greens stacking to 99. This alone would probably give me enough space to dig these days. (4 stacks plus 15-20 open spaces for dug up items would be easy to make room for.)

* Add new items to digging (perhaps in new areas) that are worthwhile to dig up. I don't expect exclusive items to chocobo digging, but we need something. (I wouldn't mind completing some quest like digging up new chocograph pieces to bring chocobos into the new areas, or only allow personally raised - not rented - chocobos to dig there.)

* Availability of items tied only to Fatigue, not to "Zone stock." I wouldn't mind the fatigue-limited number of items I can dig up if I could use all of my dig attempts in only the area that has the valuable items that I'm trying to get, during a single digging session, at the time convenient to me to go digging. When zones are "all dug up" -- empty of items -- either you wait for the zone to slowly restock (chocobo riding time is limited, so you can only wait for so long before having to either rent a new chocobo and ride back out to the desired zone, or use another charge on your whistle) or move on to another zone that has less optimal digging results, just to get "something" while you have time to dig (real life schedules, limited time).

I may add a few more suggestions as I take more time to think about it.

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I have other thoughts on Evoliths and other gear upgrade systems to share at a later time.

1. Evolith + Magian Moogle = Enhanced weapons and Armor.

Let us get Evoliths from synthesis, synergy, PvP rewards (Colosseum *twist fingers*) and quests. And then use these to augment weapons and equipment without the restriction of having the right socket/elemets.

2. Reuse old equipment Sky Gear/Homam/JSE/AF -> Synergy = Lv99 equipment.

3. Higher tier of food and drinks from synergy.

Since we now know the update is scheduled for Sept 19th from other posts, I was rereading this post and it occurred to me that there seems to be 2 options here.

Case 1:

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Originally Posted by Camate

For the future expansion of synthesis and synergy, we’re looking into raising the skill level limitation from 40 to 80 during the next version update. Once this change takes place, you will then be able to have two crafts leveled to 100.

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In this case if the limitation were raised from 40 to 80. This would mean 2 crafts at 100 and the rest at 60.

Case 2:

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Originally Posted by Camate

The main points of adjustments beginning from the next version update and on are listed below:

• Raise the 40 skills levels that can be distributed when a skill reaches 60 to 80. (Makes possible the ability to level two skills to 100)
• For the next version update “Revoking Craftsmanship Status” will remain the same as original (Bringing your skill down to 60). For future version updates we plan on making adjustments so that the system allows you to decide which craft skill you would like craftsmanship revoked.
• Additionally for future adjustments we are thinking about increasing the levels further beyond 80.

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In this case if the base skill was raised from 60 to 80, this would mean 2 crafts at 100 and the rest at 80.

Between the 2 cases I would prefer case 2 because It would not only give us 2 100 lvl crafts, but all the subs would be 80.

Can we have clarification which case is being implemented?

After re-reading what you posted, this might not be such a bad idea in either case. Sounds like u can technically have either 3 crafts to 100 or 2 crafts to 100 with 2 additional crafts to 80 if one likes on the same character. I didnt think about it like that but still i hate limits of any kind and would like all to 100 but this is a good start I suppose. One thing I would like though is a small change to the Revoke craftsman rank. In stead of completely wiping say the 20 skill levels above sixty for the craft being revoked what I was able to revoke only 10 so I can put it elsewhere?

Huh, I don't see how you got 3 crafts to 100 from my post.

Case1 of increasing the levels beyond 60 from 40 to 80 means 2 crafts to 100. 60 + 40 = 100 for 2 crafts(40 x 2 = 80 for craft skill limits), rest at 60.

Cast 2 of increasing the base level when the craft limitation is applied, but leaving the limitation at 40 is 80 + 20 = 100 for 2 crafts(20 x 2 = 40 for craft skill limits), rest at 80.

Even if you combined both cases you would not get 3 guilds at 100, combining the 2 would give 4 guilds at 100.
80 + 20 = 100 for 4 crafts (4 x 20 = 80 for craft skill limits)