Interim Report – Sorry to keep you all waiting!

Yeah, or like Assaults. Remember when people ever used the level cap settings for assaults?

Okay, neither do I.

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Originally Posted by Byrth

Yeah, or like Assaults. Remember when people ever used the level cap settings for assaults?

Okay, neither do I.

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I was thinking the same thing. I'm fine with them putting that stuff in, but we have tried it in the past and no one does it.

Oh I know. Add achievements and let level capped victories be required for some of them!

The problem still stands that doing stuff at level cap takes away your job abilities and such that you exp'd and geared hard for (especially for those of us who worked for years getting the majority of the levels before it was easy and grinding out skill caps, or even just for those of us that have worked on getting capped skills and the best gear we can for 99 cap).

We're not EVER going back to recapping level capped fights, and nor should level capped fights have a better reward. Solo it at like level 40~50 like people suggested if you want a challenge, the fights often will give some experience anyways.

And if you really want to be able to redo the fights with a challenge, why not lobby SE to make something to the tune of remaking the fights at level 99 and requiring full parties to full alliances for better rewards. I even have a good idea for it - it could be about how one of the newspaper guys in Windurst is putting together a piece on how an adventurer saved the world from Promanthia, and would have bad parodies of the events that happened, with lots of player induced slang, along with fights that are "as people remembered them" meaning they're at 99 cap and much harder. The fights could then also give out prizes like a Chatoyant Obi quest, reobtainable Ducal Guard Rings, and the final fight in the thing could be against those evil Chebukki siblings who have been slandering the player.

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Originally Posted by Economizer

I even have a good idea for it - it could be about how one of the newspaper guys in Windurst is putting together a piece on how an adventurer saved the world from Promanthia, and would have bad parodies of the events that happened, with lots of player induced slang, along with fights that are "as people remembered them" meaning they're at 99 cap and much harder. The fights could then also give out prizes like a Chatoyant Obi quest, reobtainable Ducal Guard Rings, and the final fight in the thing could be against those evil Chebukki siblings who have been slandering the player.

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This would be really awesome. I've always wanted "hard difficulty" versions of the story-line fights, since some of them contain unique monster.

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Originally Posted by Prrsha

For example, I like to do the minotaur fight as BST. Since by BST is past that level, I really can't organize the event as my favorite job for it unless I can find someone else of that EXACT level, which is hard to do these days as people have powerleveled all of their jobs at least past 40.

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Could always use a mule too... Either as sync or to play on.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Wait, is it the same, or different? I cant help but read that in a sarcastic tone, if its not different, then why are you complaining in the 1st place?

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Just to clarify, sarcasm was intended. With regard to your question, two words: Open world. What would be the point/purpose in it?

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Just to clarify, sarcasm was intended. With regard to your question, two words: Open world. What would be the point/purpose in it?

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Has anything in FFXI ever really made use of the open world, other than maybe Ixion and Sandworm that used it to better annoy the general populace?

Most camps for experience parties emulated instances as best as they could, because it was more efficient that way. They were stationary. They were in a part of the zone that had only one kind of monster, within one small level range. They were near a zone when possible, to provide a simple exit. They were in places specifically chosen for their lack of surprises, such as wandering Notorious Monsters.

People were out in the open world, technically, but everything that made a camp ideal for experience points also made fighting in that camp far less of an open world experience. It was an open world experience relative to Legion or making a huge sandwich while hiding in a Martello in Abyssea, but it still never felt like exploring the world to me. It was a long line of similar camps in sometimes similar-looking places fighting similar monsters.

Running around and killing stuff to complete a Fields of Valor page in today's FFXI can be more of an open world experience than many experience camps were, because at least a big chunk of the zone needs to be covered to get the one Weiner-Looking Worm a page might require along with its seven Bong-Water Pugils.

Must...make...Dagwood!

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Has anything in FFXI ever really made use of the open world, other than maybe Ixion and Sandworm that used it to better annoy the general populace?

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I'm sorry, but you're joking me right? Stationary is fine by me - it's the instance itself where I have no other contact with the outside "world" as long as I'm in it. I don't know about you, but I don't want to be secluded for 90% of my play experience. Square-Enix does about as much justice to the term "Massively Multiplayer" as the USA does to "Land of the free" these days.

Hell, while I'm literally playing FFXI I'm locked into an actual instance, and without getting into some real Matrix-type shit, I don't need that self-imposed seclusion capitalized on. Unfortunately, this game is (was) my social life, and that's just the reality for a lot of geeks. We wouldn't have it any other way.

Your last paragraph is fine in theory, but do you know who does FoV outside of soloers? Nobody. The game makes use of 2-3 caves before Abyssea. And even with that, you're far more likely to find that soloists will be found deep inside a cave somewhere pounding out GoV. Out of the light and out of sight where SE doesn't have to look at your sorry faces.

I didn't think you were referring to "open world" in the social sense so I just addressed the literal open world, as in exploration and monster variety and stuff. Read as a response to something social, my post would totally seem like the weirdest response ever.

In regards to the social atmosphere, I'm apathetic. I play to spend time with my best friend, after we moved apart from each other, so I'm pretty indifferent to the general atmosphere. I don't pay enough attention to know how it was or how it is, or really care, or know how anybody else feels.

Don't worry, though. Somebody else will pop up who cares enough to keep this argument going until somebody else mentions "Beastmaster" in the same sentence as "Dynamis" and that argument gets a chance to start like a fire at an orphanage for the blind. Matsui will never know the true pain of reading these forums without being exposed to both of these...uh..."issues".

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Originally Posted by Prrsha

Your arguements fall short as I have already said in other posts that lvl synching just to do promies the old way is a pain. You need a puppet character... of that EXACT level to synch down to. Sure I can find people that are level 41 or 44 but EXACTLY 40?

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It matters absolutely nothing whether they're 40 or 41 or 44. That was my point, and I mentioned that. I said even if they're a bit higher and go with 5 instead of 6 they'll essentially have the same experience. Not entirely the same, but that's not possible anymore, even with a cap. See below.

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Originally Posted by Prrsha

All I am asking for is an option for players to choose a cap or not.

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That's perfectly acceptable and I have no issue whatsoever with it. I thought previously that you wanted to cap it in general. It will be completely useless though, because no one will do it. Well, not entirely true, Lv.99 players who feel nostalgic may give it a shot with a few mates once every blue moon (real life blue moon, not FFXI blue moon), but certainly not many newbies.

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Originally Posted by Prrsha

As for your arguement about low level content, that falls short as well. Read my posts before before just posting the same stuff over and over again. The low level content should ALLOW high levels to take part in with a temp level cap however we all agree SE needs to rework the event concepts 1st along with gear storage.

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And you read my post too, please. I chose my words carefully, I didn't say it would exclude high levels, I said it would discourage them. No one wants to voluntarily cap their character to do some low level event when they are at 99, except for the aforementioned nostalgia moments, which are few and far between. And why should they? Unless the event offers some rewards tailored to 99 players (which would be pointless for the newbies), no one would even bother looking at it (yes, I'm generalizing, there are a few people like you around, after all, but the vast majority wouldn't).

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Originally Posted by Prrsha

Why shouldn't be an amazing event? Because you say so? You made my entire point. The reason why grinding from level 10 to 75 was so "boring" as you say, because there was no content to do inbetween that offered exp like some large scale event like say a revamped besiged.

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Because an amazing event requires lots of work and development time. So much so, that SE didn't release an amazing event in years. Yet you expect them to drop what they're doing and add something that only very few people want and others wouldn't even care for, even if they were at the appropriate level? And something that, given their track record in the field, would only turn out shitty in the end regardless?

How exactly do you imagine it to be implemented anyway? Tiers for every 10 levels? Offer EXP rewards worthwhile, which would replace old EXP completely? You realize that they'd have to tailor it differently to every 10 levels to even be classified as "possibly exciting"? If they did all of that, they'd have done what I suggested a few pages ago, namely make EXP diverse and interesting for every level. If they did that, awesome. Only at the expense of introducing content that matters, or fix any of the majorly flawed content we have right now. They should have done that years ago, but now the game has moved on, and the playerbase with it.

And even if it was amazing, it would still be pointless. Sure, the few newbies who would do it would feel great (possibly), but even they would move on quickly. Just because it wouldn't be a forgettable experience anymore, it wouldn't mean they would have taken something from it. You cannot possibly introduce the things that matter at endgame into low level content, because people at lower levels are not equipped to deal with it.

Look at Eco-Warrior. At level 20, there's basically three types of jobs: DDs, healers and useless jobs. Classes don't matter at all, they basically have no unique abilities, at least not to a degree that sets them apart, no specific stats, no specific gear sets, no specific traits, it's just a mess of people. It's not even the same game. Everything pre-75 is a different game than post-75, and for that reason they are incompatible. So you have to dumb down the content for lower levels, by definition. It does not work any other way.

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Originally Posted by Prrsha

Don't grease the rail to 99 with nothing of worth to do inbetween or you will (like I said before in many comments) toss 75% of the existing world of vanadiel out the window. No one will explore it, nor inhabit it.

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I really wish people would stop bringing that argument. EXP did absolutely nothing to encourage exploration of Vana'diel. You didn't experience Yuhtunga jungle when you went to EXP there, only when you got lost trying to get to the camp. It was the same thing over and over again. Missions and NM hunts were where you explored the world the most. Nowadays, trials do a lot more for exploration that EXP could ever dream to do, and indeed it does. The level range is not magically connected to the physical world you play in. If SE ever did add an amazing event like you said before, it would be Legion-style, some remote place you can teleport to from the starter cities, a shared zone, where everything else would fall behind again.

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Originally Posted by Prrsha

You need to think outside of the box and not only think of yourself, but in the minds of new players coming to the game for the first time. This game NEEDS new player retention or, yes, it will die. I hope SE will opt to keep them in the game with engaging content [..]

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SE already does that, by offering that content at 99. I've said that three times now. This game is a lot more newbie friendly than it ever was, in its entire decade long history. The newbies in my shell I mentioned last night? We did the LB10 Taru for one of them, the others have unlocked support jobs and some advanced jobs and they're also leveling them quickly now.

Back in the day, if a new player wanted to experience fun content, they were told to EXP here, EXP there, EXP someplace else. But people were not insinuating that EXP fun. It was what was required to be able to reach endgame, where all the content was. EXP itself is not content, it's a means to get there. For it to be content it has to actually offer something unique, but it doesn't. It just takes advantage of the FFXI combat system and some mobs that are wandering around.

Let me ask you this: why? I honestly don't understand. Why are low levels so important to you? To me they're just numbers, and I don't see why they deserve special treatment. Let's say SE capped the game at 99 from the start, for every job. Name one thing that's bad about it. And no, the argument that they won't get to EXP is self-referential and doesn't count (even disregarding the fact that many people hated that aspect in the first place).

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

I'm sorry, but you're joking me right? Stationary is fine by me - it's the instance itself where I have no other contact with the outside "world" as long as I'm in it. I don't know about you, but I don't want to be secluded for 90% of my play experience. Square-Enix does about as much justice to the term "Massively Multiplayer" as the USA does to "Land of the free" these days.

Hell, while I'm literally playing FFXI I'm locked into an actual instance, and without getting into some real Matrix-type shit, I don't need that self-imposed seclusion capitalized on. Unfortunately, this game is (was) my social life, and that's just the reality for a lot of geeks. We wouldn't have it any other way.

Your last paragraph is fine in theory, but do you know who does FoV outside of soloers? Nobody. The game makes use of 2-3 caves before Abyssea. And even with that, you're far more likely to find that soloists will be found deep inside a cave somewhere pounding out GoV. Out of the light and out of sight where SE doesn't have to look at your sorry faces.

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Perhaps you would have a better "Social" experience if you did events that other people are doing instead of trying to get people to do things that 90% of the populace don't like?

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Perhaps you would have a better "Social" experience if you did events that other people are doing instead of trying to get people to do things that 90% of the populace don't like?

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You mean like jumping over cliffs just because everyone else is? No thanks. I know what's valuable to me, and that which is also valuable to them, but they seem to think adrenaline and extremes are the meaning of life and therefore trying to drag us down with them saying "You're too lame!"

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

You mean like jumping over cliffs just because everyone else is? No thanks. I know what's valuable to me, and that which is also valuable to them, but they seem to think adrenaline and extremes are the meaning of life and therefore trying to drag us down with them saying "You're too lame!"

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So we, and all the things we like, are beneath your standards. You talk about jumping over cliffs and us dragging you down so you clearly consider yourself figuratively above the crowd. It wouldn't hurt you to stop looking down on everyone else just because they're into different things than you. Different isn't a synonym for inferior.

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Originally Posted by Economizer

The problem still stands that doing stuff at level cap takes away your job abilities and such that you exp'd and geared hard for (especially for those of us who worked for years getting the majority of the levels before it was easy and grinding out skill caps, or even just for those of us that have worked on getting capped skills and the best gear we can for 99 cap).

We're not EVER going back to recapping level capped fights, and nor should level capped fights have a better reward. Solo it at like level 40~50 like people suggested if you want a challenge, the fights often will give some experience anyways.

And if you really want to be able to redo the fights with a challenge, why not lobby SE to make something to the tune of remaking the fights at level 99 and requiring full parties to full alliances for better rewards. I even have a good idea for it - it could be about how one of the newspaper guys in Windurst is putting together a piece on how an adventurer saved the world from Promanthia, and would have bad parodies of the events that happened, with lots of player induced slang, along with fights that are "as people remembered them" meaning they're at 99 cap and much harder. The fights could then also give out prizes like a Chatoyant Obi quest, reobtainable Ducal Guard Rings, and the final fight in the thing could be against those evil Chebukki siblings who have been slandering the player.

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Retooling the fights for level 99 is much harder to code and balance then just adding an optional level cap, however, I am for both schools of thought. I'd like SE to give players an option to do capped events the old way (with the level cap on) or the current way without level cap. I don't wish to take away anyone's fun regarding this, only to include people who wish to do it both ways. A plus would indeed be to rehash the content for level 99 but I'd still like the easy coding option do to it the "old way". CoP does give players a nice progressive storyline to do before hitting level 75 (due to the level caps). I think a good example of this harmony would be the avatar battles. There are two options to do them. You can go in at level 20 and get your avatar or wait until post 75 (if you don't have the help of high level friends). I am sure both versions can exist side by side.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

You mean like jumping over cliffs just because everyone else is? No thanks. I know what's valuable to me, and that which is also valuable to them, but they seem to think adrenaline and extremes are the meaning of life and therefore trying to drag us down with them saying "You're too lame!"

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No, I mean like going to parties when you want to socialize instead of hiding in your room complaining to your parents about how they should make your friends come hang out with you (figuratively speaking. In no way suggesting that this is what you actually do in RL). when you say things like that, you sound like some hipster in crappy retro clothes and thick framed glasses declaring that anything that other people do is outdated and lame, while your outdated style is somehow ironic and cool. It's not. You seem to want a game that never changes once you start playing it. Have you considered playing games that don't receive content updates and / or rely on other players for their content to work?

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

No, I mean like going to parties when you want to socialize instead of hiding in your room complaining to your parents about how they should make your friends come hang out with you (figuratively speaking. In no way suggesting that this is what you actually do in RL). when you say things like that, you sound like some hipster in crappy retro clothes and thick framed glasses declaring that anything that other people do is outdated and lame, while your outdated style is somehow ironic and cool. It's not. You seem to want a game that never changes once you start playing it. Have you considered playing games that don't receive content updates and / or rely on other players for their content to work?

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A balance of both worlds is nice. One that builds upon previous successes with brand new content but still embraces it's core concept while not treading and trashing perfectly good content of the past. Learn from your failures, embrace your successes and build on them while not forgetting your roots in the process. Always look at the game from not just your perspective but also that of a new player's.

I've had the privilage of helping countless players over a 6 year period, learn, enjoy, and embrace FFXI. My main role in the game was that of a mentor. I am as close as you can get to the pulse and thoughts of the new players in FFXI. Saddly my report is grim. I've never seen such discouragement in FFXI (among new players) then I have ever seen in the past. It saddens me and worries me about FFXI's future. With no new blood and retention to the game, I fear the playerbase will continue to decline and FFXI will eventually shut it's doors.

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Originally Posted by Prrsha

I am as close as you can get to the pulse and thoughts of the new players in FFXI. Saddly my report is grim. I've never seen such discouragement in FFXI (among new players) then I have ever seen in the past. It saddens me and worries me about FFXI's future. With no new blood and retention to the game, I fear the playerbase will continue to decline and FFXI will eventually shut it's doors.

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I see the opposite, the majority of new players I have met are happy they can skip to the meat of the game, looking forward to every update and happy they are able to play and participate with the majority of other players rather than being left out of the loop. I personally see why, so long as you have assistance with where to go, you can get to your 90s in a couple of weeks, where most of the game really is now, along with most of the players.

Back when I started I had a LS I joined where a good 75% or more was in endgame, while I had no idea what was going on, I was a lowly level 20~30 RDM. I felt left out, and disconnected from them, even the xp parties I joined often had the same feel, people would talk of events like Limbus or Dyna, which I had never experienced. Now days people don't have that feel, the only content like that are things like Legion which few people do. I like this change as it seems like the game is easier to get into, and understand, as well leaving people to feel more informed, instead of wondering what an event was, and having nothing to compare it to from their xp party experience.

Without the proper help I admit, no new player will be able to make it in this game, but I believe that is one of the problems that they are trying to fix. Currently if you start new you have no idea what GoV, Abyssea, FoV, or anything of the sort is, or where to find it. You need someone else to tell you how to reach Gusgen, and then need people there to teach you to use books, then you can start actually doing something. Before that, players will easily be more lost and confused than ever before, and that I can definitely agree with. But as I said, I think thats something they are trying to fix, and if they do fix it, then this will be awesome. After you pass that part is when you realize how the speed helps new players rather than hurting them as many claim it does.

I think if they make it so you can level easier at lower levels without needing higher levels to guide you through it then it should be a better overall experience. With that, they could pull in new players who actually want to stay, but as it is I admit few players come right now, and fewer stay due to the rough start. It does make sense the game could die from lack of new players, but if they fix the problems with new players being left clueless then they could potentially have more players coming in than in a long time just because of the new expansion as well as the ability to draw players who are right now looking for something to hold over for 14 to be re-released.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

No, I mean like going to parties when you want to socialize instead of hiding in your room complaining to your parents about how they should make your friends come hang out with you.

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Ah, just as Joe Blow A-Z would because he couldn't get an invite in 2006? The purpose for my complaining has less to do with selfish want than utilitarian good. I understand that "going back" in this game is not going to work because it's filled to the brim with players like yourselves and would just fall apart if you were subtracted. Like taking great-grandpa's walker away.

I said it before and I'll keep saying it I suppose. You want to eat your cake and have it too; Don't be at all surprised when the genre keels over from diabetes.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

So we, and all the things we like, are beneath your standards. You talk about jumping over cliffs and us dragging you down so you clearly consider yourself figuratively above the crowd. It wouldn't hurt you to stop looking down on everyone else just because they're into different things than you. Different isn't a synonym for inferior.

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Nope. I'm just different.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

I see the opposite, the majority of new players I have met are happy they can skip to the meat of the game, looking forward to every update and happy they are able to play and participate with the majority of other players rather than being left out of the loop.

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I can confirm this from pretty much every account of a new player I've heard since the level cap increase. I don't know why you had contrary experiences, it doesn't add up to me. The new players don't miss old EXP, because most of them don't know what it was. The few of them who do (returning players) are amazed, because they only made level 30 or 40 or something back in the day, and now they're level 99 in a few days of work, so they're excited about the jump. That has been my sole experience, I don't remember anyone off the top of my head who said anything else.

My bit here is
1. Re-cap everything that was un-done
2.Make Dynamis zone a choice Solo players or Multi as it was for many many year's + drop the upgrade relic+2 gear
3.Introduce + 10 new Dynamis Area's with Relic 3 Gear and make those the Best in Game.
4.Extend story lines in Promythia + Zilarts to meet with Seeker's of Adulin and Gear to Match.
5.Put 6 New Dynamis expansion in to Campaign Area's ie 16 Dynamis Zones all told.
6.Cap Abyssea expansion to 75 as you Can wear gear til that levell + Anyway's and not 30 as it is now which will remove Very Quickly RMT activity.

Just some very Basic commonscence Idea's and thing's you Can do to Amazingly improve Game Mr Producer. I have more much more Idea's that can really bring FFXI back to life.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

I can confirm this from pretty much every account of a new player I've heard since the level cap increase. I don't know why you had contrary experiences, it doesn't add up to me. The new players don't miss old EXP, because most of them don't know what it was. The few of them who do (returning players) are amazed, because they only made level 30 or 40 or something back in the day, and now they're level 99 in a few days of work, so they're excited about the jump. That has been my sole experience, I don't remember anyone off the top of my head who said anything else.

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Same thing here. Every time I have ever gotten a RL friend to play this game, they have complained at length about the leveling process and the amount of time that it takes to get to a point where they can participate in events with me. None of them thought that having their level / abilities capped in certain fights was a positive thing. As a matter of fact, the leveling process left such a bitter taste in their mouths that most of them look at me with intense skepticism when I try to convince them to give it another shot now that leveling is much faster and none of them have come back so far. And to be clear, a lot of my friends work in the gaming industry and literally play games all day. These aren't people who don't know how an MMO is supposed to work.

All I know is that I leveled BST to 75 pre-abyessa and it was probably the most fun I'd had in this game in ages. It was one of the few jobs where you could just log in, pick and go exp without seeking for parties. I know a lot people bagged on the job back then but it really was a versatile machine. The job if anything taught me how to manage my hate since Snarl didn't exist and helped in learning the system of monster corralation in general.

A lot of posts I've read have been a lot of what I'd say is stemmed up anger over the years which I can easily see since I've had a few times where I've loosed some profanity on a critical failed charm or linking something which usually meant my death.

This new producer is something I consider a real breath of fresh air and I'm happy with what he's said so far despite the amount of rude and angry posts people have made in his direction. Give the guy a chance folks, He's the new person at the helm and I think he deserves a fair chance.


P.S. Walk of Echos currency exchange NPC prz! ; ;

Old content being pushed past via leveling doesn't hurt me in the least- quite the opposite. It means people can actually catch up with their friends and play together in a hurry if they want- and stuff like level syncing meant that older players could still play with new ones all the way up to that point.

I'm just hoping we see less content at the top that can be brute-forced through, and more stuff at the lower levels that can give people fun stuff to do on the way there. When I came back in (after leaving around mid-WoTG), seeing the new NM's, stuff like the training books, and other newbie-friendly things I was a happy camper. If 2013 means a game producer who remembers both to make the road to the top fun and the challenges at the endgame actually challenging? Win-win.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

I see the opposite, the majority of new players I have met are happy they can skip to the meat of the game, looking forward to every update and happy they are able to play and participate with the majority of other players rather than being left out of the loop. I personally see why, so long as you have assistance with where to go, you can get to your 90s in a couple of weeks, where most of the game really is now, along with most of the players.

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Names please? And how many? If you wish I can post a long roster of Phoenix newbees who have tried the game, gotten bored (and frustrated of being told to get to 99 or STFU) and left.

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Originally Posted by SNK

All I know is that I leveled BST to 75 pre-abyessa and it was probably the most fun I'd had in this game in ages. It was one of the few jobs where you could just log in, pick and go exp without seeking for parties. I know a lot people bagged on the job back then but it really was a versatile machine. The job if anything taught me how to manage my hate since Snarl didn't exist and helped in learning the system of monster corralation in general.

A lot of posts I've read have been a lot of what I'd say is stemmed up anger over the years which I can easily see since I've had a few times where I've loosed some profanity on a critical failed charm or linking something which usually meant my death.

This new producer is something I consider a real breath of fresh air and I'm happy with what he's said so far despite the amount of rude and angry posts people have made in his direction. Give the guy a chance folks, He's the new person at the helm and I think he deserves a fair chance.


P.S. Walk of Echos currency exchange NPC prz! ; ;

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GASP! You mean you had fun PRE ABBY!?! According to many on this forum, that is just not possible. ;3 Heck you even did it without the fast rate of exp that the game offers today and you enjoyed it.

I do like the new developer however. He has impressed me thus far much more then anyone who has managed the game since WoTG. Off topic wise: From various quotes and internet news stories, I am finding out more and more regarding Tanaka... in his involvement in FFXI post WoTG, but that is another subject. I thought he was the man in control then but his name was just for show. I'll health and work on 14 kept his activites in 11 minimal at best.

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Originally Posted by Rustic

Old content being pushed past via leveling doesn't hurt me in the least- quite the opposite. It means people can actually catch up with their friends and play together in a hurry if they want- and stuff like level syncing meant that older players could still play with new ones all the way up to that point.

I'm just hoping we see less content at the top that can be brute-forced through, and more stuff at the lower levels that can give people fun stuff to do on the way there. When I came back in (after leaving around mid-WoTG), seeing the new NM's, stuff like the training books, and other newbie-friendly things I was a happy camper. If 2013 means a game producer who remembers both to make the road to the top fun and the challenges at the endgame actually challenging? Win-win.

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Regarding your first paragraph, I don't mind people blowing past CoP at 99 if they wish to do so. However, I don't like the option of doing it the way it was intended to be done (by the developers who make CoP) taken away either. Like I said, an option to do it both ways would be nice. A choice to be capped or not would be easy to code.

As for your second paragraph it gets a thumbs up from me! :3

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Same thing here. Every time I have ever gotten a RL friend to play this game, they have complained at length about the leveling process and the amount of time that it takes to get to a point where they can participate in events with me. None of them thought that having their level / abilities capped in certain fights was a positive thing. As a matter of fact, the leveling process left such a bitter taste in their mouths that most of them look at me with intense skepticism when I try to convince them to give it another shot now that leveling is much faster and none of them have come back so far. And to be clear, a lot of my friends work in the gaming industry and literally play games all day. These aren't people who don't know how an MMO is supposed to work.

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So by that logic /synch should be removed because no higher level player would dare /synch (and lose their abilities) down to a lower one to gain exp? Not even to help a new player or friend?

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Originally Posted by Prrsha

Regarding your first paragraph, I don't mind people blowing past CoP at 99 if they wish to do so. However, I don't like the option of doing it the way it was intended to be done (by the developers who make CoP) taken away either. Like I said, an option to do it both ways would be nice. A choice to be capped or not would be easy to code.

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Hmm. Can't level sync with someone of the appropriate level and go at it for a "hard mode"? I wouldn't mind seeing the choice of having a level cap established on the various special encounters.

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As for your second paragraph it gets a thumbs up from me! :3

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It worries me that nowadays, we're seeing the lower-level game as something to be utterly ignored- where once, we were champing at the bit to make that pre-99 (or 75) game something we could participate in with others. LS gets a new player? Ooh, level sync party in Valkrum! Now, we have those rapid-fire leaps through dozens of levels, often without doing a thing thanks to FC parties- a "service" that has become an RMT paradise. When I started, RMT's profited by making the endgame accessible (originally via camping Sky gods and blocking access otherwise). Now, it's turned into a culture where if you're not leveled to the top, you better buy your way into an FC alliance and do it- and while you're at it, I hope you've got money to buy all that gear...

...and that utterly corrupts the process of going from 1-99 in the first place. It takes most of the changes S-E made to improve the road and replaces them with a ladder to the top you buy your way into, so effective it takes any prior means of powerleveling and puts it to shame, and simultaneously puts most of the playerbase outside the cycle of play that mixed experienced players with newbies.

That is, right now the road to the top is not fun, because the old road has been replaced with a bypass paved with gold and dollar bills.

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Originally Posted by Prrsha

Names please? And how many? If you wish I can post a long roster of Phoenix newbees who have tried the game, gotten bored (and frustrated of being told to get to 99 or STFU) and left.

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First, I don't feel the need to supply you with names of people I have met who were new and liked the game.

Second, did you explain how easy it is to level, or did you awesomely try to drag them down the old path you prefer, while telling them the game basically starts at 99? If you bring a new player into the game and tell them that they cant do much of anything till 99, then show them how to XP in a way that will take them months to reach it, yeah, they are gonna quit fast. If you show them how to level fast, and that they can get from a new character to 99 in about a week or 2, then they should have little problems with it because the speed is so fast, the whole "need to be level 99" thing sounds more intimidating than it really is.

Thats the experience I have had, I had 1 friend I know from XBL who got on the game and quit cause of PC problems, he was on the trial and that ruined his experience because I couldn't help him much either, like giving him a weapon, thats the only person in over a year who was new, that quit the game after me trying to help them out.

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Originally Posted by Prrsha

So by that logic /synch should be removed because no higher level player would dare /synch (and lose their abilities) down to a lower one to gain exp? Not even to help a new player or friend?

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Removing level sync would remove the ability for a book party to function, killing off low level peoples ability to level fast, something I suppose you would like, however is not what he was suggesting at all. His point seem to be that its terrible how badly the game restricts you from your abilities and spells, including level syncing events such as CoP used to be, where no matter your level, you had to go through certain areas as a weakling for an unknown and unexplained reason.

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Originally Posted by SNK

This new producer is something I consider a real breath of fresh air and I'm happy with what he's said so far despite the amount of rude and angry posts people have made in his direction. Give the guy a chance folks, He's the new person at the helm and I think he deserves a fair chance.

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Yeah, the animosity towards the new guy is something that I really do not get. At worst, nobody knows what he's going to do because he hasn't had a chance to do anything yet due to the crazy-nuts long development cycle of each updates. At best, he really was sitting at his desk and had the thought, "Whoa, bros, let's hold up this change to Perfect Defense and Embrava until the new SPs are done!" which seems pretty good to me.

Do some people just think the FFXI development office is a rotten barrel that ruins every apple in it?

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Do some people just think the FFXI development office is a rotten barrel that ruins every apple in it?

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I think most people rightfully suspect that if his ideas differed too much from the previous boss, that the previous boss would have canned him by now. Some people can fake like they share the corporate vision for long enough to rise in the ranks and get themselves into a position where they can act on the ideas that they repressed all the way to the top, but most people will be assimilated. Borg out.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

First, I don't feel the need to supply you with names of people I have met who were new and liked the game.

Second, did you explain how easy it is to level, or did you awesomely try to drag them down the old path you prefer, while telling them the game basically starts at 99? If you bring a new player into the game and tell them that they cant do much of anything till 99, then show them how to XP in a way that will take them months to reach it, yeah, they are gonna quit fast. If you show them how to level fast, and that they can get from a new character to 99 in about a week or 2, then they should have little problems with it because the speed is so fast, the whole "need to be level 99" thing sounds more intimidating than it really is.

Thats the experience I have had, I had 1 friend I know from XBL who got on the game and quit cause of PC problems, he was on the trial and that ruined his experience because I couldn't help him much either, like giving him a weapon, thats the only person in over a year who was new, that quit the game after me trying to help them out.

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It depends on the time period. Before abby, I hosted mid to low level events that introduced new players into group events that they said they would have otherwise have missed out on (and many have said would have quitted) as a result.

After abby, I never bothered getting them into garrison or others because well, the entire gameplay of the game shifted away from rewarding those sort of events. I tutored them to level 70 in large book parties all the while teaching them how to play the game and not just sit afk and leech. After awhile... when they got past 80 in a few weeks, they quit when they smacked into endgame 99. Maybe the learning curve was too high for them for endgame because of lack of other lower level events or whatnow but to be honest, I really don't know the reason. I got comments ranging from "The players in this game are so mean" to "I'm so bored after I got all of my levels" or... "Doing x or y is pointless, why is it even in the game? I wasted time doing it for nothing!" (a common reply to synthing).

So yeah, I have never encouraged slow leveling to newer players unless they got a job to 99 and complain that the process was stupid. Only then do I suggest that they try to form a static to level the old way in a 6 man party. They go off and try and to do that and fail to find people, and their names disappear from the server.

So to sum it up... whether they level fast or level slow, 90% of them go poof and all do have one strange hollow complaint. "This game feels dead." Maybe it is due to lack of exploration, doing quests or storylines. I can't say 100%. Somehow the experience they felt was lack luster and empty.

Many vets I have also have had the privilage of knowing for years have also left in a short time (months of late) as well... and they were long time fanatic players of the game.

My guess is that SE realizes that and this is why the current management is in place. Parts of abby (and it's aftermath) were a failure of sorts and they are bringing in fresh minds.

My pet project now is to see if I can form a LS to explore older content and encourage newer players to slow level (and take part in capped events). I look forward to seeing how that works and if does a better job of keeping newbees in the game.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

killing off low level peoples ability to level fast, something I suppose you would like.

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You assume incorrectly. I just want new player retention, and it's not really happening of late.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

His point seem to be that its terrible how badly the game restricts you from your abilities and spells, including level syncing events such as CoP used to be, where no matter your level, you had to go through certain areas as a weakling for an unknown and unexplained reason.

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#1 they were explained if you read the storyline.

#2 I was pointing out that you lose your abilities as well when you /synch down to book party too. Does it make leveling any less fun when /synching? It really didn't for me. It just made me adapt to other strategies of doing things. I couldn't count on certain spells or WSes anymore, which mixed things up a bit.

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Originally Posted by Rustic

Hmm. Can't level sync with someone of the appropriate level and go at it for a "hard mode"? I wouldn't mind seeing the choice of having a level cap established on the various special encounters.



It worries me that nowadays, we're seeing the lower-level game as something to be utterly ignored- where once, we were champing at the bit to make that pre-99 (or 75) game something we could participate in with others. LS gets a new player? Ooh, level sync party in Valkrum! Now, we have those rapid-fire leaps through dozens of levels, often without doing a thing thanks to FC parties- a "service" that has become an RMT paradise. When I started, RMT's profited by making the endgame accessible (originally via camping Sky gods and blocking access otherwise). Now, it's turned into a culture where if you're not leveled to the top, you better buy your way into an FC alliance and do it- and while you're at it, I hope you've got money to buy all that gear...

...and that utterly corrupts the process of going from 1-99 in the first place. It takes most of the changes S-E made to improve the road and replaces them with a ladder to the top you buy your way into, so effective it takes any prior means of powerleveling and puts it to shame, and simultaneously puts most of the playerbase outside the cycle of play that mixed experienced players with newbies.

That is, right now the road to the top is not fun, because the old road has been replaced with a bypass paved with gold and dollar bills.

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An interesting point that SE has addressed several days ago about confirming RMT activity in that area. A by-product of faster leveling is that more people cap out all of their jobs they wish to level now (and new players are left with fewer players to level with as a result).

The only way to counter this is to add more merit rewards or just plain add more people. In order to do the latter you need new player retention. It's a catch 22.

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Originally Posted by Prrsha

#1 they were explained if you read the storyline.

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They weren't. "A mystical force surrounds this area!" is not an explanation.

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Originally Posted by Prrsha

#2 I was pointing out that you lose your abilities as well when you /synch down to book party too. Does it make leveling any less fun when /synching? It really didn't for me.

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It does for pretty much everyone else. They sync down because they want to help people out, not because it's fun.

Your sole argument about player retention is one I don't believe you, because your experience is completely contrary to mine. To me, it sounds like you just make those statements up, because they are the exact opposite from what I've witnessed repeatedly throughout months now.

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Originally Posted by Prrsha

After awhile... when they got past 80 in a few weeks, they quit when they smacked into endgame 99. Maybe the learning curve was too high for them for endgame because of lack of other lower level events or whatnow but to be honest, I really don't know the reason. I got comments ranging from "The players in this game are so mean" to "I'm so bored after I got all of my levels" or... "Doing x or y is pointless, why is it even in the game? I wasted time doing it for nothing!" (a common reply to synthing).

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What did they do at 99? Level/Merit in Worm parties? Learn their jobs new abilities and traits in those parties while still evolving their character? Did they go off trying to do old content? Did they go attempt to start seal parties? Simply getting to 99 is a small part, once there, you have to know what to do. In this case, the way I always lead people is to get to 80~85, then goto worms, once they understand more about their job and its abilities, I get them a few atma like Minikin or Razed Ruins, those key atma they need for jobs, as well as getting them a ZB win, easy enough with Emps being made in my LS, we almost always have a need for Bria or C-C. After that comes teaching them how procing works in detail, and how to setup seal parties, after that they mostly go off on their own, and figure out how everything else works. Just getting to 99 does very little in the end, because once your there you can easily find yourself lost.

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Originally Posted by Prrsha

#1 they were explained if you read the storyline.
#2 I was pointing out that you lose your abilities as well when you /synch down to book party too. Does it make leveling any less fun when /synching? It really didn't for me. It just made me adapt to other strategies of doing things. I couldn't count on certain spells or WSes anymore, which mixed things up a bit.

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1, they really didn't explain it, there is no reason I can recall at any point that I was told why I was going through Promy as a level 30, why I was going through the Aqueducts as a level 40, why on an airship I was a level 60, and yet, everywhere else in Vana I was a level 75. 2, sync!, now, besides that, I myself do find it a bit more boring when I lose my job abilities. They are what define a job, to lose them makes the job less important to me and is something I hate to do. I level sync when needed, but prefer not to when I don't have to, I believe this is also part of the attraction of Abyssea leveling, as syncing serves no purpose thanks to Abyssea's xp system.