Empyrean weapon needed adjustments

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Originally Posted by Byrth

Wow... I didn't realize that. Ryunohige could be the best weapon in the game then. It also makes Pyrrhic Kleos minorly better than Dancing Edge with level 90 Terpsichore, even if AM3 only procs on the first swing. I must have forgotten you saying that in the past, because I'm pretty sure I heard it before.

Just to clarify, is Liberator's AM3 50% or 40%?

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It's around 45-50% from my testing. When I get the chance I'm going to run a larger test.... it just sucks to run since you need to attack slow enough to discern when you OAT procs. I'm still only at the Lv85 stage, since ZNM is a huge timesink, and they've eluded to possibly revamping the system. (I don't mind waiting a few months for the next major update if it makes ZNM easier.)

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Originally Posted by Kirschy

It's around 45-50% from my testing. When I get the chance I'm going to run a larger test.... it just sucks to run since you need to attack slow enough to discern when you OAT procs. I'm still only at the Lv85 stage, since ZNM is a huge timesink, and they've eluded to possibly revamping the system. (I don't mind waiting a few months for the next major update if it makes ZNM easier.)

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Orz ; ; Sounds like Saber Dance testing. I have something like ~1.5 Tygers that I'm just sitting around with if you ever find yourself on Lakshmi.

The last 5-10% pretty well sets Ryunohige as superior to Ukonvasara. It's a shame that DRG isn't a more versatile job.

Think you mean Rhongomiant/Gugnir? Drg can't use Ukon.

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

Think you mean Rhongomiant/Gugnir? Drg can't use Ukon.

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He's talking about the best damage dealing weapon in the entire game, ignoring class restrictions. A DRG with Ryunohige may surpass a WAR with Ukonvasara in terms of raw damage.

Was unsure if he was referring to DRG weapons, thanks for the clarification.

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Originally Posted by Byrth

Orz ; ; Sounds like Saber Dance testing. I have something like ~1.5 Tygers that I'm just sitting around with if you ever find yourself on Lakshmi.

The last 5-10% pretty well sets Ryunohige as superior to Ukonvasara. It's a shame that DRG isn't a more versatile job.

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Is that including retaliates or just pure raw damage?

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

Is that including retaliates or just pure raw damage?

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Doesn't include Retaliation or Wyverns, but Dragoon wins by 5%.

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Originally Posted by Byrth

Doesn't include Retaliation or Wyverns, but Dragoon wins by 5%.

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That probably assumes full time AM3 which isn't realli too plausible even with 300tp restore chests. That said, I do find there's a lot of "mini-zerg" situations in Abyssea where after you hit green on an NM, you just wanna kill it as fast as you can. I think Mythics do well there.

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Originally Posted by Kirschy

That probably assumes full time AM3 which isn't realli too plausible even with 300tp restore chests. That said, I do find there's a lot of "mini-zerg" situations in Abyssea where after you hit green on an NM, you just wanna kill it as fast as you can. I think Mythics do well there.

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Dragoon has a bit of an advantage over Dark Knight here, as Spirit Jump (2x TP) and Soul Jump (3x TP) let it build 300TP quickly and come back up as fast or faster than AM3 goes down.

3 minute recast also puts it in line with Meditate, so you're looking at Meditate -> 5x hits worth of TP minimum with a 5-hit (assuming no DA/TA/OAT50%s) to get to 300TP. Even if you kill the previous monster with a 300TP Drakesbane and wait 3 minutes without engaging another monster with no Regain, you'll have at least 180 TP just from JAs and your previous WS return. If you DA (or your OAT procs because AM3 is still up) on one of the two jumps, you're looking at 220 or 240 TP.

It is definitely wasted WS potential, but getting AM3 back up shouldn't take more than about 10 seconds if you have Haste buffs on dragoon, as opposed to maybe Absorb TP or just swinging away on Dark Knight.

I just wanted to say this is the discussions that should be taking place when talking about relics and mythics, not agurments that will never end on the topic if they should get buffed or not because they are old.

Byrth, Kirschy really been a pleasure, i wish you where on my server

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

I agree. Empyreans don't need nerfing. It's nice that people can get an amazing weapon with out killing themselves or spending millions and millions of gil. Relics and Mythics need boosts. They deserve to be on par. Most relic WSs sucked in the first place and now SE puts out weapons that are easier to get, only have 1-3 less base damage, have stat boosts instead of superfluous att or acc and come with an aftermath that puts all relic aftermaths to shame. If you argue that as fair you aren't being objective. With the level 90 update on relics and mythics I'm hopeful that SE is working towards a balance but most weapons and WSs have a LONG LONG way to go before they compete. My heart breaks for Kikoku NINs every time I see a 6k Blade: Hi.

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why? can't a nin just dual both...since the emp is so easy to get

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Originally Posted by Alderin

I disagree with changing Emp's at all.

In effect currently the power order goes like this:-
Empyrean > Relic > Mythic

Augments / aftermath etc
Empyrean > Relic >=< Mythic (depending on the weapon, some mythics have better augs then their relic counterparts)

Attainability (From easiest to hardest)
Empyrean > Relic > Mythic.

The proper power order based on difficulty to get should essentially be:
Relic > Mythic > Empyrean

Empyreans do not need to be adjusted at all. Relics and Mythics do, drastically. Overpowered or not - I believe some people are forgetting that proud relic owners have essentially spent ~200Mil gil on their weapons. Empyreans have been obtained *practically* overnight.

My vote - buff up relics and mythics for the proud owners out there. Leave us less fortunate people that havnt had the time or patience with the lesser of the 3x ultimate weapons.

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Except that Mythics are far more difficult to get than Relic.But yet very few ppl care about that as most have written mythic off as either unattainable or not worth the effort.