My continued support of FFXI, and SE as a company.

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Originally Posted by Rinuko

Maybe I misunderstood what you're saying, can you clarify what you meant by this? Sounds like you're stating it's against the ToS to remove someone from a party.

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I never said that. Scroll up. It was obvious I was referring to the specific circumstances in which it happened.

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Originally Posted by Bizarro

I didnt delete it, no idea what happened.

Based on our previous conversations you seem to have a grasp of the ToS, I'm curious where it defines, ". . .technically didn't have the right to remove me . .". Can you give us a specific line number or section where this is stated?

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Was referring to the specific circumstances in which it happened. It falls under In-game scams category.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

What? You can kick someone from a party for any reason as long as it doesn't constitute harassment or discrimination (i.e. kicking you because of race ethnicity whatever).

Kicking people from parties is a basic function of the game and is most certainly allowed under the TOS. It's only an issue if you are violating some other provision in so doing (i.e. harassing, as mentioned)

You'd be in for a particularly rude awakening if you tried to cite the TOS in an FF14 raid and the leader kicks you for performance. Sure, they technically can't use DPS meters as the basis (i.e. third party tool use) but if you're bad enough that it's observable to the human eye, then no- they have every right to optimize their group.

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Some people need to read the context in which I was making the statement and stop trying to mischaracterize what others say. The circumstances in which it happened make it fall under In-game scams category of violation under the ToS.

My performance wasn't poor. It just wasn't what Euvedant/Lecroucond wanted. Please don't assume and stop spreading rumors. You don't know me so I'm not sure why you seem to be attempting to antagonize me with this stuff.

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Some people need to read the context in which I was making the statement and stop trying to mischaracterize what others say.

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What exactly is being mischaracterized here? You specifically and directly cited the TOS to say why you shouldn't have been kicked from a party. I can't think of any other context in which you could say that. If there is, well, that's on you for not being clear in your phrasing.

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My performance wasn't poor. It just wasn't what Euvedant/Lecroucond wanted.

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I'm not making any specific judgements about your performance, which is why I used the word "if." I wasn't there and I don't know how you did or what you did. But ultimately, if they weren't satisfied with what you were doing, they were entirely within the rules and their own rights to remove you. There are only very specific circumstances, such as the use of third party tools in making the decision, where it could potentially be a TOS violation.

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Please don't assume and stop spreading rumors.

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I'm not spreading any rumors. ?????????????

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Originally Posted by Tahngarthor

I hate to say it, but if they weren't satisfied

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Key word here is "if." But as I said, unless they are breaking some other rule, people can kick others from their party for any reason.

There is no rumor here to spread. I'm going entirely off what you have told us. I'm not pre-judging you, or really forming any opinion about you whatsoever. I'm merely stating the facts: If someone kicks you form their party, they don't want to play with you. They are free to make that choice. I'm not trying to antagonize you, only provide the facts.

Life sucks sometimes. I'm not saying you *deserved* to be kicked, I'm only saying they are within their rights to do so if they don't want you in their party- regardless of how well you did. And this is something I'm all too familiar with myself as someone who plays SMN rather unconventionally.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

What exactly is being mischaracterized here? You specifically and directly cited the TOS to say why you shouldn't have been kicked from a party. I can't think of any other context in which you could say that. If there is, well, that's on you for not being clear in your phrasing.

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You're mischaracterizing the context of my post. Specifically the fact that I was wrongfully kicked after investing time in the party and being misled under false pretenses what expectations were. I was perfectly clear in what I said.

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I'm not making any specific judgements about your performance, which is why I used the word "if." I wasn't there and I don't know how you did or what you did. But ultimately, if they weren't satisfied with what you were doing, they were entirely within the rules and their own rights to remove you. There are only very specific circumstances, such as the use of third party tools in making the decision, where it could potentially be a TOS violation.

I'm not spreading any rumors. ?????????????

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You said if I was "bad enough to the human eye" which was insinuating that my performance was bad. If they weren't satisfied they were within their rights to not invite me to another run after the potential 2 runs. That would have been fair because they didn't imply I was entitled to that by inviting me and not specifying beforehand.

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Key word here is "if." But as I said, unless they are breaking some other rule, people can kick others from their party for any reason.

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They were breaking the in-game scams rule in the ToS.

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There is no rumor here to spread. I'm going entirely off what you have told us. I'm not pre-judging you, or really forming any opinion about you whatsoever. I'm merely stating the facts: If someone kicks you form their party, they don't want to play with you. They are free to make that choice. I'm not trying to antagonize you, only provide the facts.

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You were saying my performance was bad. Thus spreading a pre-existing rumor and attempting to antagonize.

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Life sucks sometimes. I'm not saying you *deserved* to be kicked, I'm only saying they are within their rights to do so if they don't want you in their party- regardless of how well you did. And this is something I'm all too familiar with myself as someone who plays SMN rather unconventionally.

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They are not within their rights to scam others.

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Originally Posted by Dihlyte

Some of you are arguing, and others are posting their thoughts on the matter, and for the latter, I am grateful.

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I'm not arguing. I got dragged into this topic out of nowhere.

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You said if I was "bad enough to the human eye" which was insinuating that my performance was bad.

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Again: I said IF your performance was bad. I didn't say that I knew it was. I wasn't "insinuating" anything.

As I said multiple times in the last post: You can be kicked for a party for any reason. It's only reportable if you can connect some sort of harassment or abuse to it. Even then, it generally takes a long term pattern of behavior before SE will act on it.

I'm genuinely sorry that this happened to you, but as far as I can tell, no rules were broken.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Again: I said IF your performance was bad. I didn't say that I knew it was. I wasn't "insinuating" anything.

As I said multiple times in the last post: You can be kicked for a party for any reason. It's only reportable if you can connect some sort of harassment or abuse to it. Even then, it generally takes a long term pattern of behavior before SE will act on it.

I'm genuinely sorry that this happened to you, but as far as I can tell, no rules were broken.

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You were implying it by the context in which you used the phrase. I wasn't saying that if I was doing bad damage I should have stayed. You implied that I was. It is reportable if it is a scam. I'm sorry you aren't open minded enough to realize that rules could have been broken. Please read what others post before you respond. Thank you.

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You were implying it by the context in which you used the phrase.

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I implied nothing. You're reading too far into things.

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It is reportable if it is a scam.

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You haven't provided any evidence of a scam. Kicking someone becuase they don't feel they were contributing doesn't constitute a scam, and that's all you've given us to go on.

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I'm sorry you aren't open minded enough to realize that rules could have been broken.

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This isn't about being open or closed minded. You haven't provided any evidence that rules were broken. Aside from saying you were scammed, which you also haven't provided evidence of, I don't see any rule violations based on the information that has been provided up to this point.

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Please read what others post before you respond. Thank you.

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I read everything that was posted before responding. Thank you.

Pro tip: Don't accuse people of not reading. It just makes you look bad. In fact, the more I reread everything the more sure I am of my position. One thing is clear, the attitude you're presenting here doesn't instill in me a lot of confidence in your side of the story. You're making a lot of assumptions while rudely accusing others of the same.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I implied nothing. You're reading too far into things.


You haven't provided any evidence of a scam. Kicking someone becuase they don't feel they were contributing doesn't constitute a scam, and that's all you've given us to go on.


This isn't about being open or closed minded. You haven't provided any evidence that rules were broken. Aside from saying you were scammed, which you also haven't provided evidence of, I don't see any rule violations based on the information that has been provided up to this point.



I read everything that was posted before responding. Thank you.

Pro tip: Don't accuse people of not reading. It just makes you look bad. In fact, the more I reread everything the more sure I am of my position. One thing is clear, the attitude you're presenting here doesn't instill in me a lot of confidence in your side of the story. You're making a lot of assumptions while rudely accusing others of the same.

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It was clear as day what was being implied. All anyone had to do was read what you wrote. He didn't kick me because he didn't feel I was contributing. I was kicked because they wanted more profit from the whole thing and decided not to honor an implied agreement. That constitutes a scam.

Heres a pro tip: Maybe actually read what I wrote instead of trying to misrepresent things.

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It was clear as day what was being implied.

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I wasn't implying anything. You are making assumptions.

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Heres a pro tip: Maybe actually read what I wrote instead of trying to misrepresent things.

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Now who's not reading?

You are assuming things that aren't there. I haven't misrepresented anything.

You are being consistently rude and toxic towards me despite me making it very clear I wasn't accusing you of anything nor had I made up my mind. I've done my very best to communicate my thoughts in a clear manner without any hidden context or meaning, but you keep assuming th

But I have made up my mind now. Your responses to my posts have been rude and disrespectful, assumed meanings that simply aren't there, intended or not, and you seem to be assuming that I'm out to get you or something which is simply not the case. Until you provide some evidence to support your position, I am now assuming there is more to the story and you probably did something to make them want to kick you- not performance, but behavior.

You are assuming the worst in others and reacting negatively to people who didn't even have anything to do with your situation.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I wasn't implying anything. You are making assumptions.

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You were. You were implying that I was saying if my performance was bad that there still wasn't a problem with me joining anyway knowing that, which was never what I was saying at all. Don't misrepresent your past posts.

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Now who's not reading?

You are assuming things that aren't there. I haven't misrepresented anything.

You are being consistently rude and toxic towards me despite me making it very clear I wasn't accusing you of anything nor had I made up my mind. I've done my very best to communicate my thoughts in a clear manner without any hidden context or meaning, but you keep assuming th

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I haven't been rude but at the same time I'm not going to be friendly either to someone whos purposefully attacking me to score points with others.

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But I have made up my mind now. Your responses to my posts have been rude and disrespectful, assumed meanings that simply aren't there, intended or not, and you seem to be assuming that I'm out to get you or something which is simply not the case. Until you provide some evidence to support your position, I am now assuming there is more to the story and you probably did something to make them want to kick you- not performance, but behavior.

You are assuming the worst in others and reacting negatively to people who didn't even have anything to do with your situation.

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Yet more assuming from you. Big surprise. My responses haven't been disrespectful, you're just looking for attention and a way to stir the pot. Admit it. You're instigating things with people you don't even know and have no prior beef with. Good job!