whats going to happen to PLD

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

That all sounds more like personal bias then a game problem. I for one, especialy as a WHM, like having PLDs around.

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Why's that? They take more damage than Mnk and Nin, and they don't have the procs to be useful on their own merit. If a Mnk or a Nin is more annoying to cure for than a Pld, get better Mnks and Nins. Or get better at WHM. The problem could be either one, really. It's not even remotely difficult for a Whm to keep anything alive these days.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

Complainer PLDs complaining. This was one of the things that nearly ruined the game earlier. PLD has already gotten everything they ever wanted and more. If you're PLDs are being over looked, maybe you need to re-evaluate your gear and play style. It's still the top tank for most everything.

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Troll better.

Explain how PLD is best at anything in todays current FFXI while you're at it too. You sound like those RNGs swearing up and down the class is still top tier.

Well, explain how 20 jobs are best yourself. Clearly there is not room for everyone to be best, so not being best is not an argument.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

Well, explain how 20 jobs are best yourself. Clearly there is not room for everyone to be best, so not being best is not an argument.

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It's a fine argument when the post he's quoting specifically tries to state that PLD is "the top tank for most everything" =/

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Originally Posted by Dazusu

Except back then they were efficient. Throwing a MNK on Tiamat at Lv75 just wasn't viable, and the few times I seen Linkshells throw a MNK or a DRK on NMs like Tiamat, Cerberus or Khimaira; a wipe or a flail ensued. The problem is the content in the game got easier; the strength of characters versus the difficulty of content didn't scale. One accelerated, the other almost seemingly reversed.

Maybe I'll level sync to a 75 mule and go throw two monks on Khimaira and see what happens. Guarantee it wont be "efficient"

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Khim,Cerb and Tia were all easily DD tanked at 75. The only mob I never saw effectively DD tanked with DI, I'm sure it could have been but we used a PLD to flee and hold him. I had a infamous Galka PLD on my server Emo quit on Khim because he couldn't get hate off my DRK. PLD was useful when the gaming community didn't understand the game mechanics and for shells that didn't have good support players in the tank pty.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

All the complaining about Paladins reminds me of the WoW forums people nonstop complain how Blizzard is nerfing Paladins ect.

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i know right? this is a sure and sad sign that FFXI has turned into a WoW clone.....sad but true...:(

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All the complaining about Paladins reminds me of the WoW forums people nonstop complain how Blizzard is nerfing Paladins ect.

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Well to be fair, they didn't nerf PLD they just made them totally and utterly useless atm. I think some whining is in order if you are a pld main.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

Well, explain how 20 jobs are best yourself. Clearly there is not room for everyone to be best, so not being best is not an argument.

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The job is designed as the premier 'tank' class yet can't even fulfill that role correctly. It's not even passable without the most elite gear in the game. With an Almace/Ochain, we can talk about PLD cause you know... they can actually do some damage and hold hate with those tools. Do tell how that isn't wholly broken.

Your heals are as inferior as RDM/SCH, flash is useless when DD clearly do more damage than the hate you grab with that, defensive JAs mean nothing when you have no hate and ultimately you're just as likely to be oneshotted as a DD tank.

Tsukino clearly called PLD "top-tank" which is trolling at best, blind ignorance at worst. The job is in the same boat as RNG - obsolete.

At least DRK/SAM/PUP etc can still do their functions, PLD and RNG sure can't.

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Do tell how that isn't wholly broken.

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You have to accept your limits. PLD is a job that tanks through being at hate cap while others hold back and avoid reaching it. WHM is a job curing while it has MP. A PLD that can tank through hate cap of DD, is as dumb as a WHM that can cure without MP. Restrictions are there to make you think about how you play and add "difficulty".

PLD is fine. What is less fine is how well a WAR deals damage while surviving attacks with a WHM healer. WAR should be able to tank of course, being the second best armored job in the game, but it shouldn't be able to do as much damage while doing so. This is the balance issue. Not if PLD can hold hate, but how much damage melee can do and receive at once.

I wouldn't hesitate for a second to say that WAR is wholly broken. I'd even say WHM is wholly broken, even though most people are incapable of understanding how anything can be unbalanced if they don't do massive damage. But PLD? It is right where it should be. Just a shame it is there while other jobs are under or overpowered, making it LOOK bad.

If there's anything at all that's broken in that scenario it's the values of Monster Damage, Monster Attack and Player Defense. Paladin may have the highest defense armor around, but it won't mean jack squat if Defense as a stat is absolutely worthless. Any good MNK is going to be running around with 30-40 Defense, and will still take less damage than a Paladin with 600~ Defense.

It's obvious that Berserk and Defender were originally intended for Warrior to switch between Offensive and Defensive roles, however the implementation was shot when the values the original Dev team decided to assign for Player and Monster Attack/Def and their effects on one another made Defense practically worthless unless it's stacked in wholly unreasonable quantities.

Jobs aren't more broken now than before, they're right where they've been for a long time. Players have gotten better, and have, for the most part, dispelled the illusion that PLD+Def+Shield = Good tank. The only reason, and I mean only reason, that people were unable to properly implement DD tanks in 2006 was the fact that players geared their jobs differently. Players with Paladin defaulted to defensive gear. Players with DDs defaulted to Offensive gear. Players with Mages defaulted to Magic-Boosting gear. What few people realized back then was that every job type can be geared every way. DDs can wear Defensive gear and take very little damage. Paladins can wear Offensive gear and deal damage. Mages can wear both, and are easily the sturdiest jobs in the game (Contrary to the popular stereotype of frail mages).

FFXI's gear swapping system allows all of these jobs to instantly change their gear set depending on their situation. Melees can go balls out and smash monsters in Offensive gear, and then switch into PDT gear if they take damage or MDT gear if a high tier spell is being cast on them. Mages can idle in full Defensive gear, and then instantly swap to the appropriate Magic boosting gear every time they cast a spell without missing a beat.

When Monks and Warriors are able to deal twice as much damage as Paladins, all while being able to swap into the same Defensive gear and take the same amount of damage (Less, in Monk's case), of course Paladin is going to be shoved out of top tier. It doesn't bother me either. Paladin had years in the sun, and right now it's a mid-tier DD anyways. If anyone has a right to complain, look at RNG and DRK =/.