Solo Accomplishments, Party Barriers, and Enhancing the Community

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Originally Posted by Siviard

On SCH, no. I don't have a "Stun Set" or high end gear for it. And anyone I've tried to take with a decently geared SCH or RDM one way or another always seem to have Stun timer down when Lahar goes off, or they Stun Lahar only to have Lahar go off again and they have no way of stunning it.

And @ Draylo you're a known troll so I don't take anything you say seriously at all. You seem to enjoy telling others they suck. Perhaps you're making up for IRL failings of your own? If I were you I'd seek counseling.

@ AppropriateName - I recall also seeing that post on BlueGartr you're referring to. There were also posts in the main Delve information thread on BG that showed screenshots of people openly using Stun Bots.

@ Byrth - I'll take a look at that site when I get a moment. Thank you for at least trying to help.

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This is my last post on the topic since it is quite a derail. Check out this thread, it'll give you an idea about what kind of gear you need:

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/32...ars-education/

Pay close attention to the discussion on recasts, and keep in mind that SCH should be getting Haste and Marches. The key pieces of gear are Apamajas II and relic feet. Also, if you bring two SCH you really shouldn't have any issues at all because they can cover for each other. For most pickup groups I'd recommend this because you can run out of strats if you solo stun depending on the quality of your group. Like anything, it takes practice.

Siviard and AppropriateName, I suggest you actually try things out yourself before stating that something is impossible to do without botting. Or at least read up on it a little more.

Part of party barriers is how some systems are in place. The fact you have to even stun so predominantly in Delve when the skill itself was meant as a support relief is an issue to me. Same with needing an outside party or swapping parties for buffs. They are tactics that I personally don't deem part of the game, but a work around for bad content. I think there's a way to make content difficult and also enticing for alliances without relying on oddball strategies to win.

I'm sure there are people who like stunlocking NMs and party swapping on buff jobs as a tactic. I'd rather they just remove those without nerfing anyone or content. Some of those moves are honestly no different than full armor Encumbrence and they fixed that recently on Ra'Kaznar Skirmish by making it just lock current armor in. I think it's a great compromise. It doesn't become this catastrophic TP move where you likely can't recover, but it is still very debilitating on time management in a timed event. I think that type of mentality should be applied to Delve.

I love that Delve requires teamwork, has tactical difficulty and tricks of the bosses to learn. This coming from someone who has yet to win a single Delve. However, I think it's lame that tactics for endgame content result in stunlocking, swapping parties for buffs, etc. It's part of the game design flaw which makes the community decide who to bring to events. I'm sure for players who have won againist such odds, it is a great accomplishment, and I agree it is so a sincere congratulations to all who are able to. But at the same time, why can't content be challenging but not require different tactics?

A huge part of the reason why jobs are so limited in end-game is the fact that current tactics (really workarounds a silly system) are only easily capable by a handful of jobs. The development team shouldn't punish people for creating strategies but foster alternative ones.

Make high level content like Delve Bosses and Ark Angels difficult in a more engaging way. I'd be completely fine with Lahar if WHM DNC SCH or other healing/support jobs could remove temporary 1 minute weakness.
Create alternative goals. All goals shouldn't be just relying on kill X in X amount of time. Create alternative ways for victory and you create new possibilities for tactics that include other jobs.
Boost hybrid/pet jobs that have a support function to be more durable than full damage. Part of the reason the development team does not want to boost the attack power of jobs that have support functions is because of their utility. Unfortunately that utility does not translate in high level battlefields. Make jobs that have the capability of doing more than just pure damage, not stronger in attack but their utility to matter more. It makes more sense that for example a Puppetmaster, Dragoon, Red Mage, Ninja, Blue Mage, Dancer, etc. is more durable than a Monk or Ranger. Their sacrifice in raw power should be equally made up in the ability to survive in current content. If not by boosting their ability personally, then reducing the intensity in which method through which content is made.

I am sure there are players who would disagree because they have no qualms with winning in the current system. However from a big picture, it makes more sense to make content that is not only more easily accessible to more players, but more importantly more jobs. I think there is a way to satisfy both the players who enjoy the difficulty of having a specific set of jobs and narrow tactics, and also the broad spectrum.

Varying difficulty was the best idea in years, in conception, that is. The best way to satisfy all without compromising the integrity of difficulty is to not make content harder based on your level versus the target's level. But to expand that into enemy intelligence and abilities. And tackling extremely hard AI such as current content which restricts to very narrow forms of tactics should simply increase the rewards. To allow players who accomplish this a sense of achievement without having to dramatically change game balance.

One thing that is easy to forget in a game, is that it is just a game. A game's primary job should be to entertain through varying methods of accomplishment.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

I'd like to share a bit of additional information closely related to the topic at hand.

There have been suggestions in the past asking for a system that would allow players to retry content if their attempt was unsuccessful. The development team had been looking into this; however, due to the following reasons the plan was pushed back.

• Party recruitment would still be strict even if there was a retry option
  This mainly has to do with pick-up groups, but even if there was a possibility to retry content, the development team feels that there would essentially be no changes in the way players create recruitment barriers.
• Battlefield congestion
  There is a concern that players will abuse this feature for grieving or other forms of harassment by occupying a battlefield for long periods of time.

In addition to the above reasons, adding a system like this would require very large-scale changes to just about every battlefield in the game. Considering the effect gained through this change and the speed in which it can be addressed, we feel that it would be more effective to focus on reducing costs associated with entering battlefields while we keep an eye on congestion.

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How about if the group fails, they are locked out of the fight attempted in question for 1 vana day? roughly 56mins or less depending on when they entered/lost the fight to rethink their strategies, And let them keep their Orb/KI that was used to enter/attempt the battle.

Make it pretty, Slap a Status icon on it too and call it something catchy like

Marshalling or Determination: Your valiant attempts in battle have not gone unfettered, use this time to accumulate your knowledge and experiences in battle to try again.

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Originally Posted by detlef

Siviard and AppropriateName, I suggest you actually try things out yourself before stating that something is impossible to do without botting. Or at least read up on it a little more.

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Posting about this topic does not automatically mean that I, or anyone else, am directly affected by it. I stunned Apademak a LOT back when my friends and I were working on our Empyrean weapons, but I no longer play my SCH that way because I relocated to another country and my latency is an insurmountable barrier. That is, in my situation, not being able to stun has nothing to do with skill.

The reason I posted and felt strongly about this (and it is very much related to the OP's topic, points 2 and 3) is because the way stun SCH is required for Delve I bosses is bad content design and effectively cuts off a majority of the playerbase. I have no stake in this as I can still get into Delve runs, but it would be great if things were different because this issue affects a lot of players. If you could show that webpage you linked (whatever it's about) to every ambitious SCH left in the game, it could be useful, but suggesting it for me is just barking up the wrong tree. I'm not the one stunning or missing stuns.

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Originally Posted by AppropriateName5786

Posting about this topic does not automatically mean that I, or anyone else, am directly affected by it. I stunned Apademak a LOT back when my friends and I were working on our Empyrean weapons, but I no longer play my SCH that way because I relocated to another country and my latency is an insurmountable barrier. That is, in my situation, not being able to stun has nothing to do with skill.

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Well I'm sorry to hear that. Still, that doesn't mean you need a bot to stun. Well maybe YOU do. I just wanted to refute your statement that it's generally impossible to stun without a bot. Basically you got the idea from somewhere that the only possible way to stun competently is with a bot and that is simply untrue. When I stun I don't even change my gear. I type /ma stun <t>, watch the mob, and hit enter when I see it charging.

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Originally Posted by AppropriateName5786

The reason I posted and felt strongly about this (and it is very much related to the OP's topic, points 2 and 3) is because the way stun SCH is required for Delve I bosses is bad content design and effectively cuts off a majority of the playerbase. I have no stake in this as I can still get into Delve runs, but it would be great if things were different because this issue affects a lot of players. If you could show that webpage you linked (whatever it's about) to every ambitious SCH left in the game, it could be useful, but suggesting it for me is just barking up the wrong tree. I'm not the one stunning or missing stuns.

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Well, you just need to consider some things then. Your SCHs need more practice. They simply need to get better. If recast is an issue than gear is and buffs is the problem. If seeing the TP moves is an issue, and stunning the charge animation is not possible, you can still fudge it because the attack pattern is easy to pick up. The reason I posted that link is to show what kind of recasts players have and/or are aspiring for. If you read it, it would help to pinpoint your stunners' issues. If Lahar is such an issue have you considered a strategy that involves removing the aura?

Whether strategies should be so reliant on stuns is a completely separate issue. I think ideally monster behavior should be such that players are either able to manipulate behavior in some strategic way, or we should be able to adjust and respond to the monster without having to worry about dying instantly. That's a fine argument, and I agree.

Are you talking specifically about Tojil or any NM in delve? Tojil himself is very predictable and easy to stun as you said, Tute and Kurma? not so much. Mist and Tremor seem almost near instant to me, even if I get a stun off it doesn't stop them from using it. An LS SCH solo stuns in our lowman runs and never misses either of those moves, even before they appear in my chat log. But we both know why that is.

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Originally Posted by Calatilla

Are you talking specifically about Tojil or any NM in delve? Tojil himself is very predictable and easy to stun as you said, Tute and Kurma? not so much. Mist and Tremor seem almost near instant to me, even if I get a stun off it doesn't stop them from using it. An LS SCH solo stuns in our lowman runs and never misses either of those moves, even before they appear in my chat log. But we both know why that is.

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I'm referring specifically to Tojil, Dakuwaqa, and Muyingwa. I'm glad to see that you agree on that.

As you say, the lower tier NMs do not work the same way and are much more reactionary. Calcifying mist is slow enough to be chatlog stunned, although I don't get it every time. With Kurma, the moves are too fast for me and I just free stun or stun after Tremor. I wouldn't expect any legitimate stunner to have a perfect record with these NMs.

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Originally Posted by Siviard

On SCH, no. I don't have a "Stun Set" or high end gear for it. And anyone I've tried to take with a decently geared SCH or RDM one way or another always seem to have Stun timer down when Lahar goes off, or they Stun Lahar only to have Lahar go off again and they have no way of stunning it.

And @ Draylo you're a known troll so I don't take anything you say seriously at all. You seem to enjoy telling others they suck. Perhaps you're making up for IRL failings of your own? If I were you I'd seek counseling.

@ AppropriateName - I recall also seeing that post on BlueGartr you're referring to. There were also posts in the main Delve information thread on BG that showed screenshots of people openly using Stun Bots.

@ Byrth - I'll take a look at that site when I get a moment. Thank you for at least trying to help.

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So you complained that certain job needs certain gear set to win, or else whoever call you "suck in a video game" must fail irl.

I fail to see the logic nor connection between telling others you can do better in a video game and fail irl. It's just a video game, if others think you suck at video game because you can't beat a content they can beat, just ignore them. If what they said it's truth, it's just video game and it doesn't matter, it's not like it's the end of your life if you suck at a video game. If what they said is false, why do you care?

But don't try to make yourself feel better by calling someone you don't know fail irl. Do you know him irl?

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Originally Posted by Afania

So you complained that certain job needs certain gear set to win, or else whoever call you "suck in a video game" must fail irl.

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Ignoring the fact I can't exactly understand your sentence since it's poorly phrased I'm going to go with my best interpretation of it.

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@ Draylo you're a known troll so I don't take anything you say seriously at all. You seem to enjoy telling others they suck. Perhaps you're making up for IRL failings of your own? If I were you I'd seek counseling.

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This seems directed at how Draylo acts on the forums generally, not simply in this one post, so to say it's only because of something to do with specific gear sets is foolish. I generally disregard Draylo as well because his replies are often the inflammatory 'go play WoW' type.

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It's just a video game, if others think you suck at video game because you can't beat a content they can beat, just ignore them. If what they said it's truth, it's just video game and it doesn't matter, it's not like it's the end of your life if you suck at a video game. If what they said is false, why do you care?

But don't try to make yourself feel better by calling someone you don't know fail irl. Do you know him irl?

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Perhaps it should be put differently, Draylo acts like a jack*** a lot of the time by saying people suck without offering much of any constructive criticism. Would you rather it put that way? Sounds less nice to me, but the amount of condesenture coupled with the fact that he constantly tells people to just go play WoW simply makes it the way he comes across. Calling him a jack*** really doesn't mesh well with the rules of the forums and is why this post probably is going to get deleted in the end as well as a possible temp ban for me like I used to get for speaking out. In the end it's about the most accurate way to say what's being said without beating around the bush and being criticized for it I guess.

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

Ignoring the fact I can't exactly understand your sentence since it's poorly phrased I'm going to go with my best interpretation of it.

This seems directed at how Draylo acts on the forums generally, not simply in this one post, so to say it's only because of something to do with specific gear sets is foolish. I generally disregard Draylo as well because his replies are often the inflammatory 'go play WoW' type.

Perhaps it should be put differently, Draylo acts like a jack*** a lot of the time by saying people suck without offering much of any constructive criticism. Would you rather it put that way? Sounds less nice to me, but the amount of condesenture coupled with the fact that he constantly tells people to just go play WoW simply makes it the way he comes across. Calling him a jack*** really doesn't mesh well with the rules of the forums and is why this post probably is going to get deleted in the end as well as a possible temp ban for me like I used to get for speaking out. In the end it's about the most accurate way to say what's being said without beating around the bush and being criticized for it I guess.

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Yeah, Draylo said "you're wrong and you sound like a terrible player", and calling him fail irl is even worse than what Draylo said, that's my point.

From what I've seen this is what happened:

Siviard:

I don't have a "stun set", it's impossible to stun without bot.

Draylo:

You're wrong and you sound like a terrible player. (Proceed to explain some tips on how to do things properly)

Siviard:

You should go seek counseling because you fail irl and make up with calling others suck.

Again, I fail to see how Siviard got the conclusion that Draylo failed irl, just because he said "suck less". Draylo said "suck less" because Siviard hinted whoever can stun properly botted when he doesn't bother to try to get a proper set nor spend some time to do the research.

Most of the people who got win, spent their time to build a proper set, read information on the internet, they don't just sit there and expect a win just pop out of nowhere without actually spending time to do research.

How would you feel, if after all the research and practice, only got the "this is impossible, only botter can win" comment?

There are many times I can't win a content, or had hard time winning it. Do you think I just pop on the forum and go "This is impossible, whoever got win are botters". No, I spend the time to do research, read forum, and ask questions in a polite attitude. I rarely, rarely got "suck less" reply when I ask questions in a polite attitude. And if I get such reply, I just ignore them. I don't give a damn about how other strangers on the internet think about my video game play ability.

To sum up: Draylo isn't the only one with jack ass attitude here and it's obvious. I'm not a Draylo fan or anything, I don't defend for Draylo because I like him. I just point out the obvious.