I personally did not forget, no, however the fact you bring this up brings another question to the table. Did you forget how many buffers and debuffers you needed to beat NMs like Tojil before anyone fully geared in Adoulin stuff? Last I knew back when we were doing that you had 18 people in the party and some of which were jobs like RDM for Dia III and Gravity II to lower EVA, or GEO for the same kinda thing, lower EVA, lower DEF, then you had BRD & COR swaps for the same kinda thing, Acc+ and Atk+ and so on. It's not as though back then it was all sunshine and rainbows and you just were so badass you could beat it without these buffs and pulled through, no, not even close. Back then you needed a ton of buffs and debuffs to stand a chance at even hitting, let alone hurting, let alone killing the NMs. So to bring up that up right now seems kinda pointless, you're setting two very completely different sets of circumstances up and saying that because A is possible, B is equally as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Draylo
On a general basis I would agree with that idea, the fact that players who can't beat content shouldn't be allowed to get the drops. That being said you again forgot something, when 18 people did it, it was much easier to kill Tojil, it was much easier in general to kill any of the NMs and walk away with a win. Back when you had 18 people Alliances and no 6-man option people shouted a ton and people without the win had a chance to get it. Fast forward to today and you find no shout groups for Plasm at all really, instead you find small closed in groups of people doing 6 man runs like the ones Saevel mentioned and that's it. Why take extras when you don't need to?Quote:
If I find the time I'll have a friend post a video of our run. If "average players" can't beat this content then they shouldn't be allowed to get the drops.
The thing is that it all goes back to being able to 6-man the content without the win now because no one does it with an alliance, and while you can say that people shouldn't get the gear if they can't beat the content, I think the odds are stacked against those without the wins in a massive way.
Again with the aforementioned lack of ability to use the english language properly and insinuations of things which have already been proven untrue.Quote:
You should be content with lower tier gear, not force SE to dumb the content down so you idiots can complete it. I honestly don't care for this discussion anymore either, SE will do as it sees fit and I'm glad they haven't totally caved in to terribad players.
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03-24-2014, 10:48 AMDemonjustin
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03-24-2014, 02:44 PMDraylo
What exactly do you mean by "lack of ability to use the english language properly"?
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03-24-2014, 02:50 PMDemonjustinQuote:
Originally Posted by Draylo
This post implies that the target of the comment can not already complete the content, is an idiot, and is a 'terribad' player, the reason it's a poor use of the english language is because the rest of your post seems to be in reply to me. I have beaten the NMs, proving one of the 3 criteria inaccurate, I can't actually prove the other two to you in any meaningful way, but I am rather confident I don't fall into those categories. As a result, either you failed to correctly articulate who your comment is talking about or you simply failed to use the language correctly.Quote:
You should be content with lower tier gear, not force SE to dumb the content down so you idiots can complete it. I honestly don't care for this discussion anymore either, SE will do as it sees fit and I'm glad they haven't totally caved in to terribad players.
I honestly only started pointing this out because earlier someone wanted to get on me about retaliating to the same kind of comment, and as a result I'm now going to simply point out every time someone uses 'you' incorrectly as you seem to have done in that quote. -
03-24-2014, 03:15 PMDraylo
It's in general... It can apply to everyone in one statement and then a portion towards you. Please don't resort to petty "english language" jabs. If anything, you have to capitalize the E in English lol.
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03-24-2014, 05:34 PMDemonjustin
Like I said, not really meant to be a spelling thing or anything like that, I hate those arguments as much as the next person. I just started pointing it because of the posts earlier in this thread on page 3, nothing more, I'll stop though. The main reason I made a point about addressing it then is because I support the change and I'm someone who can win, I don't think it's a matter of being unable to complete it due to lack of skill or gear, but rather a lack of balance.
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03-25-2014, 03:26 AMDraylo
I just don't see what people want SE to do. They want cruor buffs and brews so you can one shot Tojil? The newest delve NMs are being called "Easy" as a 6 man, this game isn't hard.
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03-25-2014, 04:32 AMDemonjustin
You can't get 119 gear without doing 119 content, so why not make it so 119 content is reasonable to do with 117 gear, 122 content is reasonable to do with 119 gear, and so on? You can argue it's possible now, sure, it's possible I don't doubt it in all honesty, but the odds are heavily stacked against a 6-man party in the older 119 content for most people. You could say most people suck and aren't worthy but that's a bad argument when everyone & their mom no matter if they sucked or not had access to the wins only a few weeks ago. The only reason wins got so much insanely harder is the fact everything is 6-man now, no one wants to do 18-man runs at all really and for that fact no one besides people who are deemed worthy to go on these runs will get the win. The only people who can join those 6-man runs, are BRDs, WHMs, Stun SCHs, and 119 DDs, and even if someone levels the job to get them into it without a DD you're unlikely to get into groups since they're more closed off than 18-man runs ever were (most consist of LS or Static groups now), and even more unlikely to get any win besides Tojil!
You don't see what people want SE to do? Well, let me explain what I want them to do.
-I would like to see drops balanced properly, either more Plasm/Drops for 18-man runs, with drop rates, Plasm obtained, and everything else scaled upward while the member number increases. This gives everyone more reason to bring with them a full party of people, rather than giving a massive amount of incentive to do it with the fewest amount possible like right now, where the craft item at the end for instance can be sold for a large amount of gil and will drop either way, which makes it most profitable to do with few people and split the gil. This change is completely meaningless unless the craft item is the primary adjusted drop rate, and the Plasm follows suit. Anyone spamming this in 6-man runs has the gear, changing it is meaningless, but if you change the Plasm & Craft Item rates based on the number of people I am sure 18-man runs will look a lot better soon enough.
-I would also like to see them lower the DEF & EVA on the NMs a bit, which would allow 117 gear DDs to do more DMG & more easily deal DMG, no 119 DD will have any issues hitting anymore so at very least lowering the EVA changes nothing in the realm of 119 DDs, only those who have yet to obtain these weapons.
-Lastly I would say lower the Plasm cost on the boss weapons/gear. Why? Simple, as you have pointed out before it's a ton easier to get Skirmish gear so this should be made easier in my opinion due to that fact. It also stands to reason that this gear be lowered in cost since again, everyone who has completed this content has the weapons already, by changing the prices you are basically only helping new players and those who are trying to catch up, anyone who did this earlier has the drops and really doesn't benefit nor does it make it easier at all, only faster. -
03-25-2014, 08:30 AMsaevelThis is the key. Prior to the iLevel update we had 4 rolls, 6~7 songs and 2 geo debuffs on Tojil to go with R15 delve gear and stuff like Oats / Senbaak, only the best shells could get consistent wins. The only thing the iLevel update did was add a ton of attack / acc to the melee's and magic acc to the SCH's so you didn't need nearly as many buffs, better shells could now consistently get the wins and average players could if they leveled COR and GEO with minimal effort. Now that 6 man exists, all the older players who used to carry the average players have formed small groups for easier plasm farming. So now you got a bunch of average players who don't have the support nor experienced folks to get the win for them.Quote:
I personally did not forget, no, however the fact you bring this up brings another question to the table. Did you forget how many buffers and debuffers you needed to beat NMs like Tojil before anyone fully geared in Adoulin stuff
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03-25-2014, 02:27 PMDrayloI agree with you 100% and I even made a thread about this. The rest I don't care for/agree with (I strongly am against weakening this content even MORE.) SE really made a mistake having the 18 man fights the same rate of drops as the 6 man. This also encourages people to bring mules over real players due to the fact its less competition for the end items to sell.Quote:
-I would like to see drops balanced properly, either more Plasm/Drops for 18-man runs, with drop rates, Plasm obtained, and everything else scaled upward while the member number increases. This gives everyone more reason to bring with them a full party of people, rather than giving a massive amount of incentive to do it with the fewest amount possible like right now, where the craft item at the end for instance can be sold for a large amount of gil and will drop either way, which makes it most profitable to do with few people and split the gil. This change is completely meaningless unless the craft item is the primary adjusted drop rate, and the Plasm follows suit. Anyone spamming this in 6-man runs has the gear, changing it is meaningless, but if you change the Plasm & Craft Item rates based on the number of people I am sure 18-man runs will look a lot better soon enough.