final fantasy xi expansion being excluded from playstion2 users

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Originally Posted by Sarick

You think a company can live with that reality "just live with it" if it's bleeding customers? ... The customers playing on FFXI right now are mostly hard core and will stick it out till the end no matter what development choices are made.

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I am confused. Did you just contradict yourself?

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I think I explained why a lot of PS2 users where forced to move to PC/360 or quit. There are many factors. In my case it was because the client failed to function or get fixed in the first place.

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Actually, a lot of PS2 users voluntarily moved to PC/X360 over the past decade. That's why there aren't enough (NA) PS2-only users remaining to justify the cost of manufacturing and distributing a PS2 expansion disc for Adoulin. The smallness of that remaining group is why they are now being forced to move or quit and even then this is only if they require the new expansion to continue playing.

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There is a defined pattern since the pre-launch of FFI (The one on NES). If you know your history you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. The name itself means more then most people realize. I could go on about details. It's just good history when you learn something new.

It always takes a major decline to cause restructure in some business models bringing out the best creativity. Obviously, the markets are hurting everywhere but that's no reason to just tell people give up. After all sometimes It's best just to avoid commenting about something that doesn't affect you if you really don't care or understand it.

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Wait, are you saying anyone who has not played exclusively on PS2 up to this point should not comment on this matter? And are you also saying that the origin of FF1's "Final Fantasy" title is why you are justified in complaining about the dropping of PS2 support at this time, when it was announced many months ago? I want to make sure I'm understanding the points you're trying to make here.

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With the callous attitude "Just deal with it" and you'll always encounter devastating repeats of the past. It's not like all customers can be thrown away without repercussions. People lose jobs if companies make mistakes. If you upset your loyal customers or stockholders they eventually invest their money elsewhere. You might not be fully aware so I'll point you to check the financial news come this 31st.

If you still feel froggy you can sing that frog song after the big announcement. Until then be leery of people who say "JUST DEAL WITH IT". After all you might find yourself falling on your rear beside them out in the cold harsh reality. If it's not obvious all things have a cause and effect that may have created a chain reaction further down the road. When those bad things happen something caused them.

The PS2 being dropped US is to save money. I can understand why the PS2 community didn't grow but the PS3 never got a chance to replace the PS2 version. As a result this game as a whole lost the chance at gaining some new players.

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Umm... this may have been a relevant argument in 2006 when the PS3 was released, but that ship sailed long ago now. But the dedicated PS3 MMORPG community will have FFXIV coming out in future months. Anyways, the point is the PS3 is irrelevant to FFXI and always has been.

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Want some details about why customers matter? While other rivals continue to grow in popularity the egregious reaction towards the Final Fantasy brand grows equally. What does this mean? You figure it out. I don't think I need to explain things. "Not trying to sound like a douche that's just how it is."

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You need to explain things because while it's clear you're trying to make a point with this, it's unclear what that point is. Well, okay... it's not so much explanation that is needed so much as a lot of clarification, because right now trying to extract meaning from your post is like trying to stare through a glass of milk, instead of one of water, to see what's on the other side of the glass.

It's a 200mb expansion. Just give it to them as a patch download. It's not like the SoA-compatibility patch wasn't already that size to begin with.

PS2 user's complaning on the decision of Sony to stop product the machine and games, its like if Nokia 3310 user's camplaining why they can't play angry bird.
(Nokia 3310 / Playstation 2: same generation of machine its just a random exemple)

At moment cause of SoA on PS2 for JP user's, all the FFXI community have so many restriction on FFXI, a minority of players downgrade everyone game.

For exemple, why you think SE removed some "autotranslate" word to add some new one, and why so many word are missing btw, and what about all the store items restriction problems

So yeah please PS2 User's buy a new machine, for the good of FFXI its not like an Xbox 360 or a low config PC is expensive

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Originally Posted by Hercule

PS2 user's complaning on the decision of Sony to stop product the machine and games, its like if Nokia 3310 user's camplaining why they can't play angry bird.
(Nokia 3310 / Playstation 2: same generation of machine its just a random exemple)

At moment cause of SoA on PS2 for JP user's, all the FFXI community have so many restriction on FFXI, a minority of players downgrade everyone game.

For exemple, why you think SE removed some "autotranslate" word to add some new one, and why so many word are missing btw, and what about all the store items restriction problems

So yeah please PS2 User's buy a new machine, for the good of FFXI its not like an Xbox 360 or a low config PC is expensive

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Actually, it's not because of PS2 players in Japan being supported. It's because the game was originally made for PS2, the code that makes the game run is made for PS2.

What would have to be done for the infamous "PS2 limitations" to go away is the game's code would pretty much have to be rebuilt from the ground up, for x86/x64 architecture instead of PowerPC architecture.

Basically they would be making a new game that just happens to look and behave the same as FFXI. They could spend as much time and resources into making a new game... so either we'll eventually see "FFXI 2" come out, or those limitations you're complaining about will never go away completely.


Seriously I get exasperated every time I see this old, tired, wrong argument get dragged out. Having zero PS2 players does not magically change the code that forms the core of FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Volkai

Actually, it's not because of PS2 players in Japan being supported. It's because the game was originally made for PS2, the code that makes the game run is made for PS2.

What would have to be done for the infamous "PS2 limitations" to go away is the game's code would pretty much have to be rebuilt from the ground up, for x86/x64 architecture instead of PowerPC architecture.

Basically they would be making a new game that just happens to look and behave the same as FFXI. They could spend as much time and resources into making a new game... so either we'll eventually see "FFXI 2" come out, or those limitations you're complaining about will never go away completely.


Seriously I get exasperated every time I see this old, tired, wrong argument get dragged out. Having zero PS2 players does not magically change the code that forms the core of FFXI.

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You wrong, all the problem is based on a lack or RAM in the PS2 (4mo of video ram!!!)
I don't talk about graphics, i talk about gearlist restricted to 80, autotranslate word restricted etc...

All this is cause the PS2 can't handle all the data in 4mo of RAM

Guive 8Mo of RAM in the PS2 and you can get all this restriction done and everyone happy, but this is not possible to add RAM in PS2.

Honestly though, all of the changes that cutting PS2 support would bring aren't in any way major. If you would place auto translation restrictions above job fixes then you kinda need to get your priorities straight. There are a lot more things that need to be resolved than a limit on a couple of things that seem to be fine as they are. Besides, the main time you would need them is for communicating to JP players and since when did JP players use Auto translate??

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Originally Posted by Volkai

What would have to be done for the infamous "PS2 limitations" to go away is the game's code would pretty much have to be rebuilt from the ground up, for x86/x64 architecture instead of PowerPC architecture.

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Ahem ... PS2 is MIPS. Two CPUs, R3000 @37Mhz and R5900 @299Mhz plus 2 custom vector calculation units from Toshiba, little endian ...

Also, it's POSIX-esque OS (UNIX style)

What uses Power PC is XBOX360 (three cores @3Ghz) and PS3 (1 core @3Ghz plus seven VLIW math optimized tiny but quite powerful processing units). PS2 capable PS3s which can run FFXI have the PS2 CPU/GPU in them.

FYI, there is really not much to do in SoA. PS2 users won't miss out on a lot. Save your money, or just use it to but Xbox 360. We may have to wait 2 years to get a full version of the expansion if they are moving fast, or 4 years if they are moving slow. So really, all the cries are not warranted since the full meat and potatoes of the game is still accessible to PS2 users. If you don't like campaign, you won't be thrilled with Reive. The 2 new jobs are still questionable at best with Geomancer being voted as wasted party slot at this time, maybe future updates will over power this job.

Diabius, I feel you. I played on Ps2 for over 7 years... Then I took a break last year, came back on my laptop. Wow! What a difference! You should really do yourself a favor and get the PC version if you haven't by now.I bought a cheap Acer from Walmart on sale for around $250 some years ago and FFXI runs better on it then it did on my clunky-dusty PS2 on its best day.

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Originally Posted by Sarick

The customers are right sometimes, Just look at the news. You think a company can live with that reality "just live with it" if it's bleeding customers? If people aren't happy you don't see a profitable future no matter how much you invest. The customers playing on FFXI right now are mostly hard core and will stick it out till the end no matter what development choices are made.

Overall, if you have a low satisfaction rate for your business model it doesn't expand. Just look at world of Warcraft I don't even own an account but when I called them up over emails I was getting the support staff treated me like gold. It's things like this that make people think about services. I think I explained why a lot of PS2 users where forced to move to PC/360 or quit. There are many factors. In my case it was because the client failed to function or get fixed in the first place.

There is a defined pattern since the pre-launch of FFI (The one on NES). If you know your history you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. The name itself means more then most people realize. I could go on about details. It's just good history when you learn something new.

It always takes a major decline to cause restructure in some business models bringing out the best creativity. Obviously, the markets are hurting everywhere but that's no reason to just tell people give up. After all sometimes It's best just to avoid commenting about something that doesn't affect you if you really don't care or understand it.

With the callous attitude "Just deal with it" and you'll always encounter devastating repeats of the past. It's not like all customers can be thrown away without repercussions. People lose jobs if companies make mistakes. If you upset your loyal customers or stockholders they eventually invest their money elsewhere. You might not be fully aware so I'll point you to check the financial news come this 31st.

If you still feel froggy you can sing that frog song after the big announcement. Until then be leery of people who say "JUST DEAL WITH IT". After all you might find yourself falling on your rear beside them out in the cold harsh reality. If it's not obvious all things have a cause and effect that may have created a chain reaction further down the road. When those bad things happen something caused them.

The PS2 being dropped US is to save money. I can understand why the PS2 community didn't grow but the PS3 never got a chance to replace the PS2 version. As a result this game as a whole lost the chance at gaining some new players.

Want some details about why customers matter? While other rivals continue to grow in popularity the egregious reaction towards the Final Fantasy brand grows equally. What does this mean? You figure it out. I don't think I need to explain things. "Not trying to sound like a douche that's just how it is."

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I never once said the customers didn't matter because obviously they do I work in retail I know this fact. They made this decision because it would have been less profitable for them if they didn't. I'm sure they foresaw people would rage-quit over it but honestly more people did that when Abyssea came out and people quit the game all the time anyway it is nothing new.

As for PS3 there was never any intention of releasing FFXI on it ever. They said so themselves that doing so would be like building the game from scratch and if they were to do that they would want to create a brand new MMO which is how we ended up with FFXIV instead.

The point is the decision has been made and it's time to let go of your PS2. I had no choice but to quit playing on mine when Wings came out since I couldn't play discs on it anymore and guess what I somehow survived.

Being mad about it at this point is almost as stupid at being mad that no one releases movies on VHS anymore because the 5 people left in the world who actually have one that works can't be bothered to buy a DVD player.