Jobs that need to be fix ASAP.

@Byrth

I was assuming the DNC actually wanted to cure people sometimes, hence the 10% DA from /WAR.

Honestly Saber Dance always puzzled me, why on earth would a DNC want to disable their cures for long periods of time? If you needed pure DPS then you don't bring a DNC, it would be like a BLU disabling all their spells for a melee DPS boost. Looks fine on paper until you realize the moogle exists and pure DPS is <change job -> MNK/SAM/WAR/DRG/DRK/ect..> away. If you need survivability then your not disabling your healing spells for any length of time, though I can see a quick ~30s burst where your spam a few WS's.

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Originally Posted by saevel

@Byrth

I was assuming the DNC actually wanted to cure people sometimes, hence the 10% DA from /WAR.

Honestly Saber Dance always puzzled me, why on earth would a DNC want to disable their cures for long periods of time? If you needed pure DPS then you don't bring a DNC, it would be like a BLU disabling all their spells for a melee DPS boost. Looks fine on paper until you realize the moogle exists and pure DPS is <change job -> MNK/SAM/WAR/DRG/DRK/ect..> away. If you need survivability then your not disabling your healing spells for any length of time, though I can see a quick ~30s burst where your spam a few WS's.

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Wellll, Saber Dance degrades then caps out after abit. And it has a pretty short recast timer. So, maybe the /war for when u take off saber dance manually and pop a cure? Less DA(20% fulley degraded on saber dance. /war is 10% I think it was?) Emergency situations that would require not full timing saber dance/not high enough evasion would be pop fan dance( which overwrites it if I recall) then pop a cure and back to saber dance. Especially since the merits are just for duration now instead of potency; in the case of saber dance. Guess it boils down to preferences?

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Originally Posted by Byrth

WAR is the best DD sub for DNC purely due to Berserk. We don't get the Double Attack because Saber Dance seems to overwrite the trait. Dancer doesn't gain much from any sub relative to other jobs, though.

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Here I was hoping it wouldn't shine through that I don't actually have DNC. No such luck!

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Originally Posted by dragonfate

and i know for a fact that a /sam last longer then /nin if you now how to use dancer the /sam way.

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Which way is that? Describe it, please, so I can learn. What does /SAM have to make up for the loss of Utsusemi?

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Originally Posted by saevel

If you needed pure DPS then you don't bring a DNC,

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What if you don't need pure DPS, but a hybrid? DNC is as good as it gets, possibly only beaten by NIN.

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What if you don't need pure DPS, but a hybrid? DNC is as good as it gets, possibly only beaten by NIN.

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I already said,

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f you need survivability then your not disabling your healing spells for any length of time, though I can see a quick ~30s burst where your spam a few WS's.

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And i would put BLU >>> DNC for "hybrid". Can do everything plus long a$$ stun, aoe sleep, aoe erase, 600+ cures faster then every 20+ seconds, Curaga III, and a host of other mix and match abilities (saline coat / harden shell / ect..). A BLU/SCH is a force of nature in those low-man hybrid healer / DD situations. Only thing that DNC does better is have a much higher evasion and fan dance, so soloing certain NMs is far easier.

As much as i agree with the OP...being a suportive Player and all...

I also want to give Byrth credit for makeing a really good Post about Dancers current Gameplay, and problems that prevent us from getting into some events on regular terms!

I just want to add some Comments^^

While i love to play /Sam....(Its my subjob of choice!) im /War most of the time now due to reasons named,

Surviveablity is a Point that was discussed. And i probably agree with /Nin being better. I say that haveing capped Eva/Parrying being Mithra. Unless if it was a mob say like.. Fuath that spamms AoE like Hell. But for the normal Mobs i'd say /Nin......


Mobs that can't be meeled fulltime for some Reasons are a Dancers Enemy since you cannot use your Abilitys freely tp may turn out to be an Issue, therefore a Main Dancer would have to have a silght Regain effect while not engaged either as a Job Trait or as a Stance ability that restrics WS and deletes all tp if canceled.
That should be not as high as if you were fighting! Just good enought to use your Abilitys.

Another Point in Abys/VW is obvious. Triggers.
Aby: NO Ja Triggers.
VW: All but one Trigger can be gained with Subjob Dnc.
Thats bad design SE!

Oh and the to the Mainjob: .... Pls make a main Dancers Healing Waltz ( as previously mentioned) remove 2 Debuffs...
and enable it to cure petrify.

As oposed to the resist Trait (Para/Amnezia) i would very much like a 5 Minute Recast Ability,
That cannot be Affected by Para/Amnezia and removes them for the user only.
That would not help while soloing due to recasts. But it would help in Party Situations...

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Originally Posted by saevel

Honestly Saber Dance always puzzled me, why on earth would a DNC want to disable their cures for long periods of time?

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This is where pocket healers come in handy, so the person who insists on playing DNC and using Saber Dance can do exactly that off in the corner and not bother the rest of us with their shenanigans.

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Originally Posted by saevel

I already said, [..]

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What if you want survivability without wasting TP on healing? Bring a mule? Bring another job? Which brings me to...

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Originally Posted by saevel

And i would put BLU >>> DNC for "hybrid".

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How Pchan of you. What if you don't have every job for every situation leveled? In a discussion about what's best for one job, another job is not the right answer.

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What if you don't need pure DPS, but a hybrid? DNC is as good as it gets, possibly only beaten by NIN.

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To which I replied.

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And i would put BLU >>> DNC for "hybrid".

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Which refutes your statement.

Now if someone doesn't have a fully leveled / geared / built BLU and has a fully leveled / geared / built DNC, then they should go DNC if they need to be hybrid support / melee. If you were to compare the two then BLU wins handily, not having to throw your WS damage into the sh!tter to use and / all of your abilities kind of does that. Honestly that is where SE messed up the most with DNC, making it based entirely on TP which also happens to be the source of 30~50% (sometimes 60~70%) of some jobs damage. There should of been a separate counter / source that DNC abilities pull from to do their work rather then handicapping your WS output.

A system similar to Strat charges would likely help DNC, as long as the charges replenish at a decent rate or it were possible to generate charges through use of abilities.

Steps + Reverse Flourish?
"Self skillchain onry!!!"
Presto, No foot rise?

The tools are already there.
If they are not cutting it then that's the best place to start. Revisions to an existing system are much more likely than a completely new system.