Back in the good ole days

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

This is not a game where you get absolutely nothing for the time you spent and constantly being punished in any ways shape possible.

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Don't you understand that the entire road you follow is meant to be fun? If you want instant gratification, there are single player games. MMOs were never (and still aren't) about instant gratification. If you think you're putting in hundreds of hours, like a real "job" for an ultimate goal, and nothing is fun about it - then this isn't a game to you, and you shouldn't be playing it. If the defintion of a 'game' to you is the shiny sword at the end of the fight - then again, this isn't a game to you.

The things you consider 'punishment' are meant to be a fun part of the game - and a lot of people do enjoy those parts.

The part where you build the pop set for your dragon for the shiny sword is meant to be fun and rewarding as a game - not just the item at the end. But if the item at the end is all that's important, why play?

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Originally Posted by Dazusu

Don't you understand that the entire road you follow is meant to be fun?

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I agree on this.
but when you've done it (several) hundred times and still have make no progress since your first try it's no longer fun!

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Originally Posted by Collavoce

Personally, I think that giving players an option (which is what a separate server would be) is never a problem.

(...)

However, outside of scheduled LS events, putting an event like this together is next to impossible.

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How will you populate a server if you can't even populate a linkshell?

The linkshell is populated, I'm talking about trying to get a pick-up group. The problem is that people who would be interested in this are scattered across servers. Also, alot of the success of the Everquest progression servers have been people coming back to the game. I wouldn't discount it just because alot of people love Abyssea. Not everyone does.

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Originally Posted by Dazusu

Don't you understand that the entire road you follow is meant to be fun? If you want instant gratification, there are single player games. MMOs were never (and still aren't) about instant gratification. If you think you're putting in hundreds of hours, like a real "job" for an ultimate goal, and nothing is fun about it - then this isn't a game to you, and you shouldn't be playing it. If the defintion of a 'game' to you is the shiny sword at the end of the fight - then again, this isn't a game to you.

The things you consider 'punishment' are meant to be a fun part of the game - and a lot of people do enjoy those parts.

The part where you build the pop set for your dragon for the shiny sword is meant to be fun and rewarding as a game - not just the item at the end. But if the item at the end is all that's important, why play?

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This may be too American a concept for you, but where there is risk there should be rewards equal to that risk. Any event with high-tier items should not, repeat, NOT be tied to luck or the whims of a developer looking to make certain jobs as ineffective as possible against their precious HNMs, VNMs, or VWNMs. The journey may be fun to you, but there ultimately needs to be a destination to be reached.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

This may be too American a concept for you

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The box you live in must be nice and cosy.

Admittedly, this thread pisses me off.
This is going to sound goofy as all hell, but is it weird to genuinley enjoy a bit of suffering in your game? Yeah FFXI was hell and all, but christ look at why a game like Dark Souls is so well loved. It made every little advancement you made, every little achievment; something that you could flaunt as a piece of gear or just a personal experience that made the end result feel so -good-. (I'll never forget soloing you Lumbering Lambert. I still keep your horn in my MH since that day 4 years ago)
People are so obsessed with having that piece of gear and looking cool that they cant seem to understand what makes that gear so amazing. It's just not the fact that you now have +25 attack or +10% haste, or whatever. But the blood, sweat and tears, and the experience that came from getting that gear.
Sitting around sucked, but you know what you did to kill the time waiting for parties?
TALK TO YOUR LS.

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Originally Posted by Faustenin

Sitting around sucked, but you know what you did to kill the time waiting for parties?
TALK TO YOUR LS.

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I want a social fantasy game, not a ridiculously expensive chat room.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

This may be too American a concept for you, but where there is risk there should be rewards equal to that risk. Any event with high-tier items should not, repeat, NOT be tied to luck or the whims of a developer looking to make certain jobs as ineffective as possible against their precious HNMs, VNMs, or VWNMs. The journey may be fun to you, but there ultimately needs to be a destination to be reached.

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I agree with what you're saying. Having everything be luck based is what's killing this game. However calling it an American concept is a bit much, no doubt more than a few people will get their panties in a bunch. Personally, meh- I can see what you're getting at and yeah, I agree. I suppose a more PC term for it would be a "concept of common sense"
but really, as it turns out common sense is a rarity.

The only thing that I would really edit with what you said is the fun vagueness in your statement. Games have to be fun, no exceptions. If the journey is not fun then the destination will not be reached.

Mind you this is strictly in regards to games. Real life is different because we have obligations we must fulfill but that is why the fun factor is so important in the way we decide to spend our leisure time.

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Originally Posted by Faustenin

Admittedly, this thread pisses me off.
This is going to sound goofy as all hell, but is it weird to genuinley enjoy a bit of suffering in your game? Yeah FFXI was hell and all, but christ look at why a game like Dark Souls is so well loved. It made every little advancement you made, every little achievment; something that you could flaunt as a piece of gear or just a personal experience that made the end result feel so -good-. (I'll never forget soloing you Lumbering Lambert. I still keep your horn in my MH since that day 4 years ago)
People are so obsessed with having that piece of gear and looking cool that they cant seem to understand what makes that gear so amazing. It's just not the fact that you now have +25 attack or +10% haste, or whatever. But the blood, sweat and tears, and the experience that came from getting that gear.
Sitting around sucked, but you know what you did to kill the time waiting for parties?
TALK TO YOUR LS.

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There is truth in what you say.
A challenge done right can be very rewarding and fun. Dark Souls does that pretty well but even there it's a delicate balance. One too many faceplants and the player gets frustrated. It's a lot harder that one would think to hit that sweet spot where it's just the right amount of challange/faceplant. lol

It really is the experience that people remember, not the gear. It's simply how the human memory works.
i.e. "Remember when LS X lost claim on Faffy at 1%? Bunzz voked and claimed. He 2hrd and killed it."
Nobody talks about the drops! XD

To address your closing statement-- I can't say that everyone talked to their LS or pm'd specific people between party invites but to be perfectly honest that was a small fraction of people.
I know a great deal of people who watched TV, did their chores, or did their homework. At the time, I was one of those people. It wasn't that they were having fun or a good experience it was that their experience of the game was put on hold by the fact that they had to wait hours upon hours, upon hours for an invites. Granted, certain jobs got invites faster than others but they were a select few.

I wouldn't say that this thread pisses me off... I just think the OP is delusional about what the "good ole days" really were. =\