Seriously devs - the balance

Well it's presumptuous to assume that every event is going to dispense useless garbage, but I agree with the message of your post for the most part. It does seem they've been saving some actually new content for 99, so hopefully this turns out to be more interesting.

For me, with things like Voidwatch, it isn't even the junk drops and low rate of good stuff- there just isn't anything in it that interests me. There are some nice items in it right now, but notihng that's worth the aggravation of the system. Being a dedicated PUP, I was pretty disappointed to find the only special drop for PUP ended up being a piece of trash (new animator) and basically lost any interest in doing the event. Everyone I know, at best, wants one or two items from all ov voidwatch (which consists of a bunch of paths with a bunch of NMs in total- only a couple are of interest to anyone I know)

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Feeling the love in here D:

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You smell funny and you will never succeed in life. Worse yet, these two things are only tangentially related.

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Originally Posted by Byrth

That said, I agree that they're taking the game whatever direction they want without much respect for the substantial quantities of player input they receive. Do I blame them? Not really. The effort SE would have to spend sorting out well-measured and thought out suggestions from the suggestions of idiots is substantial. Then, in our case, the effort they would have to spend translating our suggestions would be substantial. If you guys think they yield to JP suggestions much more than NA suggestions, you'd be wrong. The JPs were just as "wat? where did this come from." about the job FAQs when they came out and blamed us for it the same way we blamed them.

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I can just imagine what would happen if they translated everything...

"So, what did Camate and Co. have for us this week?"

"To summarize, there were suggestions for improving the Voidwatch item distribution system, some minor and some rather large. In addition to that, there were suggestions about dual-wielding Great Katanas, sixteen vague and nebulous topics about improving Dark Knight (fifteen of which were started by the same person), a fellow named '...Spank...Wustler" suggested we run around the office naked and regularly break apart the copier to drink the toner contained within and a disturbing number of people found it believable, the entire Red Mage sub-forum is a den of fury, sadness, and conflict that every one of our community representatives refuse to...Sir, what are you doing?"

"I am putting on my clothes and having one last dram of White-Out before I leap from the nearest window. Congratulations on your coming promotion!"

I lol'd. 12345

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Originally Posted by Camiie

I've actually played with Kirschy and Nightfyre before. Been in LSes with them both and done lots of events with Kirschy. No issues with them at all. I don't know the other folks mentioned. I really didn't intend to lump everyone who was truly elite or knowledgeable into a certain category, even if I ended up doing so. I'm really sorry for that, as it wasn't my intention to insult good people.


I do hope that not everything I mentioned is invalidated by my mistake. If so, then I'll just try to make a better argument next time.

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No, your points stand. I just felt they were misdirected. People like the ones quoted by Crysten above are beyond help, and I recognize at least a couple of names as people who have been laughed off of and/or suspended from BG at least once. These people really aren't elite, though. They're just morons who have/had a decent bot. Equating skill with claim rates has never been anything more than laughable.

Honestly, I'm not really angry at you, and I apologize if I came off harshly. Your post just came off badly when read in conjunction with Hayward's. Hayward is a much better example of the problem I've been addressing. The man can only seem to spew vitriol whenever he posts about elite players or BG posters. It's a chronic problem, especially on these boards, and I was just getting tired of it.

Honestly, I can't and won't stand up for anyone and everyone who did HNMs. There are definitely jerks and jackasses around. But that's just how people are, and it happens at both ends of the spectrum. Thankfully, most of these people end up in the middle rather than at the top. It takes a certain measure of maturity and intelligence to make a skilled player, which typically precludes mouthbreathing retards like the ones Crysten referenced.

Personally, I've always felt that the Einherjar, Nyzul, and Assault drop systems were some of the best in the game. Adding Abjuration drops to Einherjar with unique Odin-only drops, while allowing kings to keep some marginally useful (but not game-breaking or absolutely necessary) items was a wonderful balance. The Ichor and Assault Point systems were nice, and I always hoped they would be expanded upon for those who already had everything they wanted from them.

The biggest problem with point based systems is stagnation. Once I had X, Y, and Z, Ichor became useless to me. Adding valuable consumables and crafting materials to point reward lists would help give people a reason to continue utilizing them after they have the gear that they want.

I wouldn't mind new world spawns, I just don't want them to become the be-all-end-all again. Allowing players to get items faster via world spawns, and slower but claim-free in a battlefield-esque system while maintaining some individuality by including unique but not end-all pieces to each system would be ideal. There are people who just want to go out and get things right now by claiming HNMs, and that's fine. There's just no reason to make that the absolute crux of the game again.

Playing for 7 years and seeing the garbage posted on Alla (usually by sockpuppets from other forums) for as many years, you'd be tired of elitists (or should I say egomaniacs, for which I have a low tolerance) too if you had to hear horror stories about various job discrimination issues (<insert flavor-of-the-month job> only, lol<insert whatever job is out of favor accoding to the talking points>, "Level a 'real' job", etc.), (H)NM claiming issues, and general ignorance on S-E's part on how to bring certain jobs up to par (particularly Summoner. I've enjoyed the job over the years, but I hate the fact that I've done so despite S-E's slow-footing on fixing the job for fear of "overpowering" it). That gets old really fast and nobody should have to put up with it without calling BS on it.

I have no hatred of HNMs at all beyond the unjustifiable drop rates and cheap tactics programmed into them. My beef is with HNM linkshells members who act like someone shot their mothers when those who were sick of the political BS were able to acquire good stuff in Abyssea and through Magian Trials with a little effort and persistence (Empyrean weapons aren't my cup of tea, but I still respect those who have come through those trials without losing their sanity). S-E did something so right in releasing Abyssea that the professional endgamers nearly had a collective case of cardiac arrest, it seemed. From experience alliances that allowed any job to get experience without waiting hours or days for a party, to AF3 sets that I hope will remain good up to 99, to item drops that are not only good but drop reliably, Abyssea is what MMOs are supposed to be about. Abyssea had the right kind of balance, with good rewards for honest effort.

You bet I get irritated when someone starts screaming "Easy Mode" just because we don't have to risk losing 4-5 levels for a Fire Crystal drop anymore (exaggeration, yes, but you get the idea). That stuff needs to be called out as well as absurdities being posted in response to threads looking for ways to make jobs stand out more than they currently do without requiring Empyrean weapons.

I think I found the problem. You based your interpretation of Elite/HNM/Endgame players on Allakhazam - on stories or linkshells rather than on individuals.

Were there dicks out there? Yeah. Did they exist on Cerberus? Definitely. Do the vast majority of these players even play the game any more? Nah. Are the remaining ones still dickholes? Not really, a lot of people grew out of it when they got the chance. Christ, even Armada's mellowed out a ton (though really it was more a few members giving them a bad name in the first place).

If you actually read BG (I know, the devil's forum, etc) you'd find that most people like the ones you described are told to gtfo of there, too. Most Endgamers really did not have a cardiac arrest. It was just a few loud, annoying, retarded ones that we don't like either.

Sure, I'd like content that's harder than Abyssea, but there's a difference between wanting something that doesn't bore me to tears and having a conniption fit because casuals can get gear.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

general ignorance on S-E's part on how to bring certain jobs up to par

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I think this is something that people are aggravated by across the board, and I'm not sure how it's related to player mentality since developer responses to player feedback are often dubious. To their credit, they did handle the recent AI changes for puppets like really awesome people doing a really awesome thing.

As for the rest, people are individuals and I think you're connecting dots that just don't connect. I'm sure it's cathartic somehow to blame every issue within FFXI on the far-reaching tentacles of one conglomerated group, but that group doesn't really exist.

In reality, just a handful of people feel setting up a bot and a few doodads properly should still be the pinnacle of the FFXI experience. I'd guess most folks who are old-hands at end-game stuff are in the "My imaginary person sat in a vomit-green room for three hours while I cleaned my house and learned guitar because, hey, what else was there to do in 2005?" club and are more than happy that things lean more towards active content now.

The FFXI community isn't the two-party system that far too many people perceive. There are people who want content to be less random but take more time and effort. There are people who want to try their luck with stuff that pops whenever it wants and drops whatever nobody wants. There are people who want more straight-up casual-friendly stuff. There are people who make topics complaining about Dark Knight's something or Summoner spirits forever and ever.

I think it all ultimately boils down to one simple thing - the hugely vocal, stupid minority will silence the silent, sensible majority 100% of the time. People end up judging their opinions on the minority, and we end up in a similar situation to this.

Happens with everything, not just FFXI.

AM I TOO LATE TO COMPLAIN ABOUT HASTEGA BEING SMN ONRY?!

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Sure, I'd like content that's harder than Abyssea, but there's a difference between wanting something that doesn't bore me to tears and having a conniption fit because casuals can get gear.

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This part I always disagree with though. People that expect to gear the best, and adapt their alliances to 18 most suitable jobs, then complain that it wasn't hard enough.

It should be perfectly obvious AND expected that if you have a relic/empy/mythic there shouldn't be any hard content left for you, because you picked up the "easy mode" weapon. Same when you are not filling the party with PUPs and SCHs and DNCs and what else is less popular than PLD, WAR, WHM, BRD etc.

You always have the option of making content hard. And every single person always picks the easy way by wearing the best gear and coming as the best job. If the topic is difficulty, then the problem is yourself (and friends). You can always have a fun and challenging battle if you aim for it.