Gjallarhorn Buff - Is it ever going to happen?

I have nothing to add at the moment that was not covered with Creelo's post. The numbers and logic behind Creelo's calculations look correct.

I would like to express my disappointment about the line in Gildrein's post of:

*Gjallarhorn and Daurdabla may not be imbued with Afterglow effects.

All other relics will get afterglow, even Aegis. Granted yes the nature of Gjallarhorn is different compared to other relic weapons and Aegis, as weapons are used offensively and Aegis is used for defense. Gjallarhorn is unique in the fact it has always been about buffing the party. I do not think it should be excluded from an afterglow effect just because of it's existing buffing capabilities.

I still am hoping lvl 2 will be where Massacre Elegy is added. Granted yes if the current data is correct we would need 1k items from Arch DL it would take quite a while. Massacre Elegy is a worth 99 lvl song, which a Gjallarhorn only song has been long overdue ever since it has been first available.

It doesn't matter what they add to level 2 because nobody is going to finish that stage. It would not take "quite a while." If you want Massacre Elegy in any shape or form, you'd best pray that it is NOT added to level 2.

As I stated earlier, it seems that SE does not want us to have a full-time sphere effect so what would then be the afterglow trigger?

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Originally Posted by detlef

It doesn't matter what they add to level 2 because nobody is going to finish that stage. It would not take "quite a while." If you want Massacre Elegy in any shape or form, you'd best pray that it is NOT added to level 2.

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I must agree; personally, I would just love for Massacre Elegy to be a quested spell that you must initiate by presenting your lvl 99 Stage 1 Gjallarhorn to some famous Bard NPC, perhaps the Bard that gave us our Gjallarhorns. :D What that quest would actually entail... I don't really know. A Solo or Party BCNM fight would be a lot of fun I think, as opposed to grinding out and collecting a crap ton of items.

I pity the soul that would actually complete a Stage 2 Relic/Mythic/Empy, ooophf. Just thinking about it makes my head dizzy and frustrated >.<

Back in the day when we were 75 doing dynamis took a while to get the currency needed. I'm still working on brd mythic so if that's where SE puts it so be it. I'll still work for it even if it takes a long time. Time is relative, what one person might consider long, one might consider short. It all depends on your point of view.

If it takes years it takes years simple as that. SE will decide the eventual amount of X items needed to get. Yes we can make suggestions and such but ultimately they have the final word on it. I would love a lower amount but if that's what they decide not much we can do except email and post our opinions. Whether or not they act on them is up to them.

I completed Gjallarhorn 3 years ago yet I still do dynamis to help other people get their relics, so far 7 years worth of dynamis.

I believe if people would team up more, stuff could be done faster, rather than split groups up into small groups for each their own. Dynamis for me has always been about teamwork and back at 75 I think it best exemplifies it. Granted yes there were leaders that took advantage of members, but there are also those that stick around and keep with it trying to help everyone that they can.

With the addition of Legion with it's 360k gil requirement and max 36 players I believe this is SE's way of addressing the team aspect of the game again.

As for afterglow trigger, I've always been a proponent of a Gjallarhorn specific JA or even weapon skill like Horn Bash. Where you could use it after you have sung X amount of songs or some other trigger. Gjallarhorn has always been in a unique position in game as neither weapon or defense so maybe something unique is warranted

I dunno, but I think all songs+4 is till pretty strong, especially considering how much cheaper gjallahorn is compared to the other relics :p

However maybe we should get some kind of "enhances song duration" thing on the 99 version too. Depends how costly it is. Stage 1 99 gjallahorn might not be that hard to get. We don't know what the trial is yet so who knows.

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Originally Posted by Urat

I dunno, but I think all songs+4 is till pretty strong, especially considering how much cheaper gjallahorn is compared to the other relics :p

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What do you mean exactely? :O

He probably means cost since the final stage is shells. +4 songs seems strong until you realize how little of an improvement it is over +3.

Pretty confident I'm still missing something. My fault eh! I bet it's my fault completely, morning-braindead probably, but I still don't get it completely.
Windy currency costs the same as Sandy currency on my server, and this has been for a long time. Bastok currency was a bit cheaper but lately it seems the price of the 3 currency is getting more or less the same tbh.

I would have got the "cheaper" thing if Gjallarhorn required 10k Bynes on last stage, but since it's shells I dunno, I don't see how it's cheaper than other relics that require bynes. (and even then, the price difference is not as big as it used to be, as I mentioned above)

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Originally Posted by Creelo

Yup, it's really disappointing. >.<

This part was interesting...



So I wonder if Massacre Elegy is included in this part of the post; however, I greatly fear that Gjallarhorn lvl 99 Stage 2 would have to be completed for access to Massacre Elegy. I'm sorry, I'm just gonna quickly delve away and say that this whole Stage 2 Business of killing 1000 Arch DLs, 500 PWs, or collecting 3000 Riftcinder/dross is absolutely fucking ridiculous.


As for the usefulness of "All Songs +4" (Incoming long post...)

Base March Values
Advancing March's = 64/1024
Victory = 96/1024

With March+4
(Current max for Brds, each March+1 gives 16/1024 Haste, so 64/1024 extra haste with March+4. All Bard's should have AF3+2 Hands for that extra March+1 considering how easy they are to get.)

Advancing+4 = 128/1024 = 12.5% Haste
Victory+4 = 160/1024 = 15.625% Haste

Haste the spell already gives 150/1024 = 14.65% Haste.

Magic Haste caps at 448/1024 = 43.75% Haste.

128+160+150 = 438/1024 = 42.78% Haste is the current cap to what we can get without Marcato or Gjallarhorn99's March+5. Basically, Brd's with Langeleik (March+4) are 1% away from capping Magical Haste. Bard's with just March+3 are about 4% away from the cap.

But since we have Marcato, Brd's that have been keeping up with their equipment should allow for capped Magic Haste roughly 60%~ of the time already. (3min12sec base, 6:24 with Troub, or 3min->6min if just March+3) Gjallarhorn isn't needed to cap magical Haste roughly 60% of the time. Even March+3x2 can cap Magical Haste with Marcato.

With March+5
Advancing+5 144/1024 = 14.06% Haste
Victory+5 176/1024 = 17.19% Haste
Together = 320/1024 = 31.25% Haste

So basically, with Haste (150/1024), March+5 x2 + Haste is overkill (470/1024 as opposed to 448/1024).

You may think you could potentially Marcato Victory March+5 to be able to drop a March, but that's still only 264/1024 = 25.78% Haste, thus you'll still need to sing Advancing March and have Haste to cap Magic Haste.

With Daurdabla, you could do Marchx2+Marcato'd Third Song with Gjallarhorn lvl99, while still capping Magic Haste without Marcato, but that's nothing to really go ape shit over lol, especially since the important stat (capping Magical Haste) can already be done now ~60% of the time.

If SE would've released that third tier of March... (We know it's there in the dats!!), and it would follow the same base values as Advancing/Victory, thus having a 128/1024 Haste base with capped skill, March+5 would allow for 208/1024 = 20.31% Haste, with Marcato roughly 30.47% Haste. This would allow for only a Marcato'd MarchIII+5 being needed to cap Magical Haste (along with Haste itself of course). This would probably require a high amount of skill gear needed to do this, which would make Gjallarhorn's skill and "All Songs+4" way more useful.

Ballad+5
Gjallarhorn's extra Ballad+ is nice, but really only useful for events where MP regeneration isn't as easy. VW has Temp Items, Abyssea has Atmas, so it's not really needed there. Not to mention /sch and /rdm both provide awesome abilities for restoring MP. Marches would instead be more beneficial, especially for stun recast timers. New events like Legion could bring back Ballad+'s usefulness though.

Scherzo+5
Scherzo 46% vs. 50% with Gjallarhorn lvl 99. If the attack's gonna kill ya, it will kill ya. That 4% is probably not gonna be the difference maker lol I wouldn't be surprised if SE released a Scherzo+ instrument either since we haven't seen a new instrument since the lvl 90 Cap... :/

-In Summary-
Basically, Gjallarhorn is nice... but it's not revolutionary. "All Songs+4" provides little benefit over a Brd without Gjallarhorn. It's nice... but not as nice compared to other relics. :/

I think that a third tier of March could have potentially really buffed Gjallarhorn, but who know's if we'll see that.

I think I'd say Daurdabla lvl 90 is still better than Gjallarhorn at 99, and Daurdabla lvl 99 is light-years ahead of lvl 99 Gjallarhorn lol, obviously best to try to get both! :)

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um... if you can train your party to work with a bard the way they are supposed to (i.e. stay in position and hold the mob's hate) then yes, you can use a bard for something other than haste. thus, boosted ballads for mages, etc. Scherzo on single tanked mobs, carols if it's into single element spamming, minuet if your hitting plenty often, but for only 0-20 damage, all that stuff.

Grant you, as a default (especially if you don't bother with hate control) double march and whatever enfeebs we can get is probably going to be your go-to song set, but a bard who's paying attention to party progress, especially if the party has both skill, chemistry and any sense of strategy being open to other possibilities on a situational basis can be MUCH more effective.

Most players only see what buffs can do for them, not the party, and the vast majority of players are melee DD. However, the bard job is PARTY SUPPORT, not just DD support. Not all parties are built that way. If your primary damage source is nukers, maybe you should consider doing things that boost nuking? Or boost hate on the tank considering that nukers tend to be 1-shotable... A bard who doesn't adapt to party needs (assuming the rest of the pt is actually fulfilling their role) is just contemptable.

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Originally Posted by Glamdring

um... if you can train your party to work with a bard the way they are supposed to (i.e. stay in position and hold the mob's hate) then yes, you can use a bard for something other than haste. thus, boosted ballads for mages, etc. Scherzo on single tanked mobs, carols if it's into single element spamming, minuet if your hitting plenty often, but for only 0-20 damage, all that stuff.

Grant you, as a default (especially if you don't bother with hate control) double march and whatever enfeebs we can get is probably going to be your go-to song set, but a bard who's paying attention to party progress, especially if the party has both skill, chemistry and any sense of strategy being open to other possibilities on a situational basis can be MUCH more effective.

Most players only see what buffs can do for them, not the party, and the vast majority of players are melee DD. However, the bard job is PARTY SUPPORT, not just DD support. Not all parties are built that way. If your primary damage source is nukers, maybe you should consider doing things that boost nuking? Or boost hate on the tank considering that nukers tend to be 1-shotable... A bard who doesn't adapt to party needs (assuming the rest of the pt is actually fulfilling their role) is just contemptable.

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You don't think I fucking know any of that? <.< Seriously, dude?

That doesn't even remotely relate to my other post because I wasn't at all saying "MARCH IS ALL THAT MATTERS, BARD'S SHOULDN'T SING CAROLS, SCHERZO, ETC."

Really?

My post was trying to evaluate the overall usefulness of "All Songs +4" and how this applies to our most important songs (March, Ballad, and Scherzo), although it would undoubtedly be affecting all of our songs. I simply came to the conclusion that "All Songs +4" is nice, but hardly an improvement over a Brd without Gjallarhorn, and that a third tier of March could potentially buff Gjallarhorn well.

I've never said once that Bard is only for Marches, and I'm a STRONG supporter of being a Brd that does more than just sing their songs and afk in a corner.

And you do realize that March can boost nuker's dmg as well, right? Since MP is such a non-issue now, March is easily one of the best songs TO be singing for Mages to help lower their recast timers. An Etude can be nice for larger Epeen Dmg, but March will provide much more for your mages (Marchx2 + Scherzo comes to mind for a Blm party on Botulus Rex).

So please, before you post stupid shit that doesn't even relate to an original post, just don't.