Jobs on strange Equipment

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Originally Posted by Kensagaku

Ritual dagger for their summoning? D:

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Other than the off chance of using Energy Steal/Drain for MP in lieu of Spirit Taker, which I can't explain at all, I have no line of reasoning for Summoners having Dagger skill.

Do Black Mages even have Dagger skill, much less any reason to use them?

As to the whole PUP on mage gear I took it as SE didn't intent PUP to be a front-line job but more of a supporter with /WHM or /SCH.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

And again, I wanna mention the extensive Aht Urhgan lore, which features puppetmasters in their current form heavily

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Playing devil's advocate: How much of that lore wouldn't easily work replacing Puppetmaster with Necromancer?

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Do Black Mages even have Dagger skill, much less any reason to use them?

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Higher Skill than SMN, and well stabby stabby good times?

BLM on sword!!!

I just want to point out that equipment is the last thing a dev team is gonna focus on if they are creating a new job, and therefore even if they had started necromancer and stopped halfway thru to change it to PUP (which I think its very obvious that they didn't, however if you have evidence please present.) there wouldn't have been any asigned armor at that time so the PUP was supposed to be necromancer concept loses all grounds on that. Also level 90 armor last update saw some new pieces of gear, and the mage set has PUP listed on it still, not to mention since Toau was released new gear kept coming out and all we got was mage gear til af3. I just want to know, and I want to hear it straight from the dev teams mouths, why does PUP get mage gear period.

On another related topic smns and blms with dagger skill doesn't sound that silly. A dagger or small knife is a pretty basic weapon and since smn and blm have no combat expertise I can see it being viable, now if they made an incredibly awesome dagger with great skills for blm and smn and they couldn't use it then I'd be complaining.

Finally, why is Ukonvasara the greatest Gaxe when its actually a hammer? Serious redesign please.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

They say in the interview that they were thinking about something Necromancer-like, but figured out that they couldn't implement it for lore-related issues (although they seem to be ignoring the fact that undead are out in broad daylight in the Northlands, I'm sure they could have come up with an excuse for Necromancers to have them out as well). That means that PUP was not originally Necromancer and changed midway through development, like people here seem to think. It means that they had an idea for Necromancer, but scrapped it while figuring out the job details. So the pet idea was taken from Necromancer, but the rest was rethought, and PUP was born. Meaning when they got to the point of printing job labels on equipment, nothing of Necromancer was left.

And again, I wanna mention the extensive Aht Urhgan lore, which features puppetmasters in their current form heavily. That means, that by the time they got to write the story, PUP was already in its current form. And the PUP system is completely new, like BLU as well, meaning they put a lot of thought into it. The fact that it features equipment alone distinguishes it from Necromancer, unless you keep pet undead which you have permanent equipment for.

Saying that the dev team is miffed about axing Necromancer (something that didn't even technically happen, from what we know) is a groundless assumption. The fact that they screw up on job implementation is no indication for this either, since they do that on every job. PUP just got unluckier.

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That is also a groundless assumption, and a weird one in that. Why would they have Necromancer in mind when building it, when they know they were not building Necromancer? I don't think the dev team is quite that naive. Or spiteful, for that matter. "We didn't get to make a Necromancer, now we're gonna do one in disguise, pah!"

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Would not surprise me though lol. In any case thank you

Find and replace :P

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Do Black Mages even have Dagger skill, much less any reason to use them?

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Merit Dagger (next update this shouldn't be necessary) and sub Red Mage and you can do Aeolian Edge, which might be a good farm option on mobs that silence you and resist the darkness damage from Cataclysm (Staff and something like /WHM).

Actually, every job except Blue Mage and White Mage gets Dagger skill, so it isn't so strange, even if its about flavor (being able to use a simple weapon). Before anyone calls White Mages incompetent for not being able to use a Dagger (hey, White Mage doesn't use pointy weapons, its uh, part of curing?), I'd like to point out that unlike SOME jobs, White Mages can at least throw a Pebble.

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Originally Posted by Kensagaku

Annoyance but not really a big deal: BLUs getting club skill but getting crap for clubs. True Strike, man, gotta get those auto-crits! But really, why give us a skill we can hardly use? So I can bring out my Shellbuster for the occasional proc?

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Every job can use a club. Although BLU should probably be on some of the generic WAR/PLD/WHM ones, considering...

I think the bigger question is, why can't BLU use Dagger, or why don't they have throwing skill?

The dev team has responded to the question: "Why is X job on Y armor when they clearly have no use for it?"

I'll have to look up the link to this particular response, but their response to PUP getting mage gear was along the lines of: "PUP is a job that wears light cloth armor, so that is the type of stuff that PUP is able to equip."

What this says to me is that the actual stats on various armor types are not the determining factor regarding whether or not a job can wear them. But rather, how a specific armor type (cloth, leather, heavy plate, etc) fits into the lore of the job.

Would explain why DRG could only use leather/scale and other light armor for several years. Used to make me so angry that we couldn't AT LEAST use chain but NIN could. People used to argue "well DRGs need to use light armor so they can be quick and agile and Jump high". Obviously these people were idiots because NIN could use heavier armor than DRGs yet still had higher base AGI and evasion skill than DRG. I never got why a far-eastern Ninja was more qualified to wear ROYAL KNIGHT CHAINMAIL than Dragoon, a Royal Knight of San'dOria. Also weight has nothing to do with jumping. If you jump 100 feet and you weight 150 lbs the damage you exert or energy you release is the same as if you jumped half that height with double the weight on.

Who is to say that the story we have now for Aht Urgan was the original story they had written? Scripts for movies are always being re-written. Why would it be any different for video games?

The could have also created the jobs first, THEN wrote a story later to fit around the jobs they made in final development.