This thread AGAIN, please, fix WK.

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Originally Posted by OmnysValefor

Go beat 5/5 Delve, and then beat Tojil, and then come talk to us about where the game stands.

Seriously man.

You only have so many party spots. 18 spreads awfully thin.

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So you are saying its impossible to low man Delve and kill all bosses within the time limit.

You are under a false illusion like most players today. Party with JPs for long time and you will see the difference.

At the current state everyone thinks boss is too hard and think having more people with highest DPS will win. Of course you can win. Anyone can gang bang a fight and end up winning.

Focusing only on DPS jobs mainly without strategy is like hire 1 tank and 17 BLM casting Meteor. Yeah you will win, and win fast. But the risks add up to hit and miss.

The real challenge is doing it with less people fastest possible on a flow.

You may think because it might take longer to do strategy is not worth it but if the flow is steady, gimping damage for the sake of flow well makes up for it in the long run compare to hit and miss, fall down and die, mages flailing arms in the air running in circles, DD attacking gimp under weaken or double weakness status and so on.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

So you are saying its impossible to low man Delve and kill all bosses within the time limit.

You are under a false illusion like most players today. Party with JPs for long time and you will see the difference.

At the current state everyone thinks boss is too hard and think having more people with highest DPS will win. Of course you can win. Anyone can gang bang a fight and end up winning.

Focusing only on DPS jobs mainly without strategy is like hire 1 tank and 17 BLM casting Meteor. Yeah you will win, and win fast.

But the real challenge is doing it with less people fastest possible on a flow.

You may think because it might take longer to do strategy is not worth it but if the flow is steady, gimping damage for the sake of flow well makes up for it in the long run compare to hit and miss, fall down and die, mages flailing arms in the air running in circles, DD attacking gimp under unweaken and so on.

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Without deflecting or avoiding, answer this question.

Have you, or have you not, participated in a successful Tojil run?

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Originally Posted by Daemon

Hate cap is way too low. For tanker? Then it means DD is dealing too much damage too fast.

If that's the case, DD should be purposely gimping their damage by equipping lower level damage gear and weapons or give tanker time to raise enmity.

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Now we have reached this point. Where our DDs must hold our PLDs hand because he cant do his job properly due to broken mechanics, and ends up being nothing more than a hindrance to the team. This is the exact reason no one brings a PLD, because doing this would cause failure in most events, and is generally a stupid thing to need to do for a job to be of use in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

So you are saying its impossible to low man Delve and kill all bosses within the time limit.

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Nope, lowman delves have happen. Comeatmebro octoboxes 5/5+Tojil. I'm not sure about Daku or bee.

The thing is, in no scenario does a tank keep up with the enmity the DDs need to generate in order to kill the bosses A) within the time limit B) before Tojil is chewing on a few Orison Bliauds.

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You are under a false illusion like most players today. Party with JPs for long time and you will see the difference.

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You're talking about how JP are superior, and yet you haven't ever cleared Delve, Tojil. It's like saying "You're not good at basketball because my friends are tall and lots of good basketball players are tall.". Doesn't make a lick of sense, does it?

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At the current state everyone thinks boss is too hard and think having more people with highest DPS will win. Of course you can win. Anyone can gang bang a fight and end up winning.

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No, see, there was a time when you couldn't just send your dd in and laugh. SE used to design encounters, and now they just give things a lot of hp and moves that you need to stun.

Damage dealers are entirely too tankable now,

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Focusing only on DPS jobs mainly without strategy is like hire 1 tank and 17 BLM casting Meteor. Yeah you will win, and win fast. But the risks add up to hit and miss.

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Why do you continue to assume that because we don't want special snowflakes, we have no strategy?

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You may think because it might take longer to do strategy is not worth it but if the flow is steady, gimping damage for the sake of flow well makes up for it in the long run compare to hit and miss, fall down and die, mages flailing arms in the air running in circles, DD attacking gimp under unweaken and so on.

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Okay, here's the thing about most serious NMs. They're either immune to stun, resistant to it, or they build a resistance too it. Tojil does this. As the fight goes on, the more moves that you stun, the more resistant he gets to it. Before the m.acc update, this was why a lot of ls's couldn't beat Tojil. The fight would go on a little too long and a key stun would get resisted and people would wipe.

Barring the building immunity to stun, the fact that you need to stun, and that scholars can only stun so often, you might be able to take tojil down by just using ws+sc damage. You'd probably have to bead a few things, but it might happen.

There is no way, absolutely, that you could do all 4 of the other bosses that way (matamata doesn't count).

And Morimar is the easiest zone.

You keep talking about we neanderthals and our lack of strategy and how I simply need to just come play with a group like yours to see the light except that I know the fight mechanics, I've been there. You don't, and you haven't.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Without deflecting or avoiding, answer this question.

Have you, or have you not, participated in a successful Tojil run?

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Here we go again. Have you tried every strategy, party setup, all jobs to come to the conclusion that there is only one way to win? Stop avoiding that question then ill answer yours.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Without deflecting or avoiding, answer this question.

Have you, or have you not, participated in a successful Tojil run?

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Here we go again.

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I choked, laughing, on my soda when I read that.

Because at this point you are trying to put me in the spotlight with the intention of replying "Then you don't know jack about what you are talking about." Just to prove that in order to know how every boss you have to win first before you talk.

If you were paying attention we are not talking about Tojil right now. We were talking about Enmity, different jobs, strategy vs DPS only.

We are talking about enmity in content that matters. Delve is the only content that matters where things live long enough to build any enmity on.

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Originally Posted by OmnysValefor

We are talking about enmity in content that matters. Delve is the only content that matters where things live long enough to build any enmity on.

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I assumed we were talking about Wildskeeper Rieves. I mean that's why we went over 58 pages worth of comments.

And why people are complaining it takes over 5-10 hours to kill Yumcax and Hurkaan. And by following the original topic.

Or am I misunderstanding?