[dev1009] Seriously.... how could you make the HNM system worse...

People should really stop talking about botting it's ridiculous why don't you go back to 2005.

Inorite. The only things that were botted mainstreamly werte those retarded three kings. Why would you put rare mobs hat drop the best gear in a tiny corner like that? You can say people botted cerb,khim,tia but lol. But yeah, that didn't happen often. More like, it was more a race or having a hold party ready. DI/SW were unbottable. Did people use windower/spot type program? yes, but those people LOST against shells that actually paid attention to scanning. Botting really wasnt a big issue outside kings, which are now gone and have been obselete for a long time.

Couldn't agree more with OP. Square-Enix has been taking so many steps forward for this game as of late. This is a HUGE step back. This is something the old development team would've done. By making us do farm 99KS, do KS99, kill NQ, and then finally kill HQ, you are wasting the players time. I personally do not want something wasting my time.

Why not lower respawn to 12 hours? And have no 3 hour, illogical window. Lower drop rates if you think that Kings drops are so still so so precious.

But just a heads up, they aren't. Ridill is not worth the time. The only drop worth it on Kings is the defending ring.

its pretty bad that monk (abyssea's sudden fad job) is the one getting messed with... never mind the poor pld who almost no one uses anymore because not enough proc's can't kill fast enough or whatever reasons u want to use but bunch people get on a kick about monk because of abyssea and have to destroy a fun tradition that goes back to this games origins camping NM's and HNM's..... if things aren't easy enough now for people they could just increase the drop or spawn rate or add mobs that drop the items but myself i been playing for years now and love the camps the adrenaline rush of getting the claim even if u didn't get the drop the hours of boredom which made you interact with ur fellow players and actually make friends and bonded linkshells and friendships helping each other. Now... goto 90 in a week no ls grab a cruor burn go brew an nm pause it on npc, martello or whatever and brew hold so u can get all ur +1 / +2 gear and make like u been playing for years... there are still some of us out here who party outside abyssea camp nm's and just enjoy the community / linkshells and friendships.

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Originally Posted by Tsuneo

People should really stop talking about botting it's ridiculous why don't you go back to 2005.

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Should I add the rest of your post??

The point that stopping talking about it just continues to enable it, so why not us just shut up about it?

Square-Enix. As a 6 year costumer, here is a suggestion. Make a poll.

Have 3 options:

1) I agree with the HNM changes
2) I do not agree with the HNM changes.
2) I want the HNM system to change, but not like this. Please form a new method.


The forums were meant to get feedback from the players, right? So please try to get more feedback before you make such a drastic change.

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Originally Posted by Starcade

Should I add the rest of your post??

The point that stopping talking about it just continues to enable it, so why not us just shut up about it?

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You must have been living under a rock since Abyssea came out. I don't even know what botting people are complaining about anymore. You people keep talking about it but it hasn't happened for quite awhile now. Sure individual people might still do it, but it's not on the massive scale it was before. The topic of botting isn't relevant to this update because no one cares enough anymore to bot them.

most of us can go up and still see tiamat walking around or old Jorg or even cerebus.... the only reason behemoth nihdogg and the turtle are camped right now is the huge kick for monks because of abyssea.... lol i remember fighting 20 others for marlboro cave spawns it was a rush now summon carbie fill ur inventory with crap stand ur buddy at entrance and goto bed... carbi kills it when it agro's u and buddy gets his drop and all done :( pathetic but unfortunately true... seen it done

once 95 gear comes out and a new fad job comes out these will be the camped NM of the day but really once this fad is over those of us who just like to run out and kill an nm or HNM fun cause its there like arthro or serket just because its about and reminisce you can't u will have to make a whole alliance party collect 99 seals ... then i going to have to farm more seals to pop the dynmis nm's LOL

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Originally Posted by Tsuneo

You must have been living under a rock since Abyssea came out. I don't even know what botting people are complaining about anymore. You people keep talking about it but it hasn't happened for quite awhile now. Sure individual people might still do it, but it's not on the massive scale it was before. The topic of botting isn't relevant to this update because no one cares enough anymore to bot them.

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You are most likely correct in this case. I think some of the fear surrounds S/E introducing new HNM's that drop superior gear and are claimed under the old method. As a former HNMLS member, I certainly see the botters returning if the old HNM spawn system returns and that is what drops some of the best gear in the game. Because making that claim would both better equip your members as well as making huge bank on sales to buyers.

As far as popping the old Kings, the more I think about this system, the more I like it. Primarily because the biggest complaints were the long windows between spawns and the claim system. So, S/E has said "Okay, you get to fight these without having to worry about others cheating to make the claim. And we won't make you stand around in a single zone once every 21 hours. But, we also are not going to make it so you walk into a zone, kill a few mobs, pop the HNM, and then repeat it until you get the drop. There will be some effort on your part."

And, there are very few drops from the Kings that are really worth very much anymore. Perhaps Black Belt and Defending Ring? Add to that the fact S/E has mentioned an item akin to the BB being introduced and the BB may very well drop off that list. So, quite honestly, if you only wanted the experience of fighting these NM's, then it would be a one time trip through this system.

The more responses I see to this, the more apparent it is that there is a group that you can't please unless the game is as easy as playing Solitaire. Truly, those people need to grab some sack and realize that while they will get some concessions, this game will not turn into an all-nighter and you're done like single player RPG's.

This is stupid. I can almost guarantee that 2 months from now Fafnir and the other kings will only be popping once a week because no one will have KS anymore.

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Originally Posted by Susake

This is stupid. I can almost guarantee that 2 months from now Fafnir and the other kings will only be popping once a week because no one will have KS anymore.

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It won't be from lack of KS. It would be from lack of interest. I remember many Desert Storm runs because people cared enough to go out and farm seals. Two groups of people will be popping the Kings: Groups of people who want the drops and Groups of people who have buyers and want to sell the drops.

If people are smart and belong to one of the above groups, they will start farming seals now.

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Originally Posted by Susake

This is stupid. I can almost guarantee that 2 months from now Fafnir and the other kings will only be popping once a week because no one will have KS anymore.

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Its just as likely they won't be popped due to people already having the items they need/Lost Interest, as it is they won't pop for not having any Kindred Seals.

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Originally Posted by Susake

This is stupid. I can almost guarantee that 2 months from now Fafnir and the other kings will only be popping once a week because no one will have KS anymore.

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If their loot pools aren't updated then chances are nobody will care once they get their defending rings or whatever it is they think they need. If they are updated people will be grinding seals like mad and by the 2 month mark we should be seeing update previews again. On a side note kings and other NMs already wander around for hours sometimes days before people take them out.

While a... glance? in the right direction, I really can't find myself agreeing with this new solution. While its true that people who felt had a 0% chance at getting DRing or BB before now at least have something they can do to obtain said item, I still think the bigger issue is Time/Effort =/= Possible Reward.

More importantly, and this is what I noticed most people have overlooked. It was mentioned a while ago, but no one seemed to either care, or take note:

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How to obtain the trigger items:

Fafnir: Treasure from “Early Bird Catches the Wyrm”
Behemoth: Treasure from “Horns of War”
Adamantoise: Treasure from “The Hills are Alive”
* At least one of these items will be dropped in every battle.

Nidhogg: Treasure dropped by Fafnir
King Behemoth: Treasure dropped by Behemoth
Aspidochelone: Treasure dropped by Adamantoise

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The pop item for the HQ versions are not 100%. This is currently, the biggest flaw, and my biggest gripe. If SE wants us to spend 8~10hrs solo grinding KS, just to watch NQ King quite possibly NOT drop his HQ pop item, then they have another thing coming. Considering they've removed the rewards from the KSNM, and lowered the drop chance on the HQ version, then seriously, what the friggin' hell?

I completely understand the need for "grinding" things out. Afterall, this game is an MMO, and being a rather old game, not to mention an Eastern game, its littered with time-sinks and grind-fests. But seriously, that last bit is just a slap in the face. If I'm about to invest 8~10hrs to farming 99KS, and hopefully not bashing my face against my desk before that, then I think its only fair that I'm rewarded with the knowledge that I'm at least going to see KB, or Aspid, or Nidhogg, even with the reduced drop rate. But according to what I'm reading, that isn't the case.

I really hope I'm wrong. But until then, there's just no way that the amount of time and energy it even takes to possibly get a King to pop, is worth it. While it may have lacked the... dedication, or challenge (to some folks), keeping track of ToD and when a King popped last was MUCH easier than the amount of work we'll have to put in now. Not to mention that the old system gave you a lot more time to do other things outside of its ToD, to further progress your character in a variety of different ways.

I'm not a total advocate for the old way, although it does bring back some bittersweet memories of my old HNM LS days, I actually do think having a pop system can work. I just think the balance between this new way, and the old way, is completely off. It's not even close.

They didn't even bother confirming whether or not BB items will still drop from the KS99's, which I can only assume that they no longer will in this new, HNM-LS only solution. Thanks again SE for chasing more players away from the game, it's no wonder you have to keep resorting to server merges with these dumb ideas you come up with that you never ask your players if it's something they want.

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Originally Posted by darkShirou

They didn't even bother confirming whether or not BB items will still drop from the KS99's, which I can only assume that they no longer will in this new, HNM-LS only solution.

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You can assume the opposite as well, which you should. They only mention adjustments, if it's not mentioned it probably won't be adjusted. Also, nothing about this is HNMLS only. KS99 can be done (and have always be done) by normal LS, even shout parties, with success.

maybe they are changing the drops in the ksnm 99 and the nihdogg drop items cause its too hard to make new NM's and no place to put them ... re-skin cheat lol
it was only broke for the monks who wanted their BB NOW for abyssea!!! lol
if they just left it alone until new areas outside abyssea came out monk would become negligent again ... i remember countless people not leveling monk because no one wanted them until they were 60+ but we know how trend jobs go ask all the sams out there or back in the day when drg was insane...

I'm so glad I'm not the only one that thought was a really bad idea. To make us farm KS which have a crappy drop rate to do a KSNM which you need to gather people which is not a easy task to to get a pop for a mob you can solo is just plan wrong its like a taking 30 steps backwards I don't know what they were thinking with this update. if anything they should have made the NQs pop more often and gave them a low drop rate on pop for the HQ HNM and kept item drop rate the same as it is now. or just leave it as it is just don't make it 3 times the effort for no reward.

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Originally Posted by PoaSign

While a... glance? in the right direction, I really can't find myself agreeing with this new solution. While its true that people who felt had a 0% chance at getting DRing or BB before now at least have something they can do to obtain said item, I still think the bigger issue is Time/Effort =/= Possible Reward.

More importantly, and this is what I noticed most people have overlooked. It was mentioned a while ago, but no one seemed to either care, or take note:



The pop item for the HQ versions are not 100%.

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That may or may not be a problem if the drop rate is something reasonable like 50%. Plus you forgot to comment on that red text, it reads "at least one of these items will be dropped in every battle.". If I understand this correctly we might see 2 or more triggers drop from fights.

I still don't see why anybody is up in arms about this announcement. Are there really that many people out there that are pining for really old gear? Does anybody realize the current respawn rate on these monsters is an entire day and that Kings are a rare spawn from that? Furthermore does anybody understand that with current gear,jobs,merits that these monsters are a minor inconvenience compared to when they were first introduced?

I think making this NM pop with an items is not as bad as it may looks, the problem i see is that many are complaining on the seals used, why not ask SE to change the KSNM99 to a new one method, I'm sure many if not all players are storing lots and lots of Kindred Crest an H.Kindred Crest, using this to teh BCNM to get the pop item would be better and this way we solve the problem on seals, I know many players still goes for beastmen and kindred seals farm but if the problem is that this drops are shared with other two that drops more often why not give it a use?

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Originally Posted by darkShirou

They didn't even bother confirming whether or not BB items will still drop from the KS99's, which I can only assume that they no longer will in this new, HNM-LS only solution.

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Wow, you guys really dont know how to read, do you?

It's blatantly stated by a dev in a different thread that KS99 BCs will continue to drop BB items. You can find the exact post by using the dev tracker, or you can be lazy and copy/paste this link

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...0514#post80514

i don't care to much about ppl killing kings but why should they make D ring easier to get after alot of ppl put in so much time and didication to get one? If they removed it from KB and put it like Tia or someting, LW maby id not be so irritated, but i killed KB in 4m with THF SAM BLU RDM RDM & NIN with only 2 meteors goin off.its so ez to kill now. Now it'll be popped like 50x a week and there will be teal or full perle ppl running around with a D ring, quite the slap in my face.

Did anyone notice that the never said that Fafnir/Adamantoise/Behemoth will drop Nidhogg/Aspidochelone/King Behemoth items 100%. That could further extend the amount of time this will take.

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Originally Posted by Natenn

i don't care to much about ppl killing kings but why should they make D ring easier to get after alot of ppl put in so much time and didication to get one?

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Let's see, roughly seven years of being in the game, times 32 servers at an average of five rings a year if you're lucky (minus, of course, five times the eight servers that were deactivated over the past year) . . . yeah, I'm sure those 1080 at most people across all servers would be oh so offended! I'm sure that they are probably just as offended at that as the 100 or so people who got their rings from the Mog Bonanza!

Seriously, dude. Get over yourself.

hmm nice to know people do find problems with this "update"

I think this makes egg above everything else much harder to get then current methods. making dring easier to get is needed though, this update will do that. I do not understand making BB items harder to get though, esp egg.

5 a year is the best case scenario, lucky if more then 2 drop per server per year. You might be for the everyone gets the best of everything w/o really fighting for it but im not. Anything common isn't worth having most of the time. Use to be if you wanted something prestigious like relics/D rings/things like that, you would have to bust your ass to get one and hope you get lucky on top of that. Now lazy ppl get this stuff with ease. Im against getting stuff w/o effort.

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Originally Posted by Natenn

i don't care to much about ppl killing kings but why should they make D ring easier to get after alot of ppl put in so much time and didication to get one? If they removed it from KB and put it like Tia or someting, LW maby id not be so irritated, but i killed KB in 4m with THF SAM BLU RDM RDM & NIN with only 2 meteors goin off.its so ez to kill now. Now it'll be popped like 50x a week and there will be teal or full perle ppl running around with a D ring, quite the slap in my face.

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Get over it. Ask all the Thieves that camped the Thief Knife for days and days on end. Then, poof, you can now pop the mob and get the item easily. Or, simply pick one up on the AH for an incredibly low price.

I'm sorry the game didn't stand still for you to continue to feel 1337 for accomplishments past. You can get with the program and keep moving forward. Or, just as in real life, you can do nothing new and look like you stepped out of time machine. Ever seen someone with one of the original cell phones? They paid incredible of amounts of money for it back then. Now, it's worth nothing. Basing your worth on items will always be a losing proposition.

For 1 there is no real accomplishments anymore, the l33t drops/titles mean zilch now. Hopefully the new content puts and end to all the abyssea gloating crap. I saw a group yesterday use 3 Brew on 1 glavoid, unacceptable. No more easy outs to avoid wipes/losing claim, yes please.

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Originally Posted by Natenn

For 1 there is no real accomplishments anymore, the l33t drops/titles mean zilch now. Hopefully the new content puts and end to all the abyssea gloating crap. I saw a group yesterday use 3 Brew on 1 glavoid, unacceptable. No more easy outs to avoid wipes/losing claim, yes please.

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Well Voidwatch will be outside of abyssea, so no more Brew safety net for people who suck now. Now its up to SE to have them be timed NMs or pop NMs is something else entirely.

They say Abyssea saved the game and it did. I for one will be glad to see Abyssea and its ease be some what lessened in this game. I for one loved the challenge this game once presented, Abysseea took that away from players who love challenge. I for one am hoping that changes like this are what we can expect in the future, SOME DIFFICULTY!!!!

I like being able to schedule NMs around my life rather than my life around the NMs. I also like being able to actually be able to take my LS to do those NMs instead of just no-lifers being able to attend and get the shinys.

This imo is a good change since there are going to be a lot more pops on the servers now. That 3 hours spent waiting to POSSIBLY get a pop can be spent ACTUALLY working on getting a pop.

But there in lies the problem, whats supposed to make MMO unique is diversity. If eveyone has and does the exact same thing then whats the point in playing? If you want the best gear you should have to pay the price, if you think a 21-24hr pop is omgitssohardtoclaim then you don't camp em. I would get a King pop maby 3-6x a month before when there would always be 100 or more at camp. I think ppl only cry bots to try and justify themselfs in complaing about how they weren't good enough to claim, same goes for calling ppl no lifers. These are are ignorant ppl that go nuts every time they lost a claim and spout off nonsense like "omg bots bots bots they have no life QQQQQQQQQ", we all know several ppl like this and we all know not everyone bots. SE said before they wanted to give us "Choices", my choice is to camp and duke it out for the best gear cause i enjoy doing it. If you dont wanna do that then go to w/e alternative there is for end game equip.

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Originally Posted by Natenn

But there in lies the problem, whats supposed to make MMO unique is diversity. If eveyone has and does the exact same thing then whats the point in playing? If you want the best gear you should have to pay the price, if you think a 21-24hr pop is omgitssohardtoclaim then you don't camp em. I would get a King pop maby 3-6x a month before when there would always be 100 or more at camp. I think ppl only cry bots to try and justify themselfs in complaing about how they weren't good enough to claim, same goes for calling ppl no lifers. These are are ignorant ppl that go nuts every time they lost a claim and spout off nonsense like "omg bots bots bots they have no life QQQQQQQQQ", we all know several ppl like this and we all know not everyone bots. SE said before they wanted to give us "Choices", my choice is to camp and duke it out for the best gear cause i enjoy doing it. If you dont wanna do that then go to w/e alternative there is for end game equip.

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I agree with you mostly cause I know you in game and understand what you're saying.

I do think that the best gear should be available only through the most legit way. This way should take time, effort, kill and focus. The thing I love about camping is, it's not easy. It requires me to focus and I kinda enjoy the rush of it. The unknown and luck aspect of it is fun to me but if the drops suck and arent worth anything, ill admit I wouldnt try.

Looking at this from a point of a view of a person who doesn't enjoy camping. I'd think I'd love einherjar. How many of you anti CAMPERS (not anti HNM) but those of you who don't enjoy camping monsters, actually enjoy einherjar? Do you think that's fair? Einher to me is a lot of fun! You can't rush to odin either so this event is the -perfect- event to me that establishes itself as both casual and elite. Its a perfect mix. It's casual in that it only takes 30minutes to do (not counting gather/organize time) and you have to actually focus and be good. (speaking back at 75.. lol) You couldn't just take a bunch of leeched/afk type ppl who want drops handed to them and go straight to odin with 3/3 or 9/9 wins. TYhat's not how it worked, but it was so time friendly and NOT consuming, the only excuse people had for not getting king drops from einherjar was, the group wasn't skilled enough. This event needs to return in some way or get a buff. This is where the BEST drops should be.

The whole 1-7 type spawns (varying from DI to Tiamat etc), those are fun. FFXI should bring back rare NMs. Natenn made a good point earlier in that, where is the accomplishment in defeating NMs now? It was such a huge part of ffxi before, even if you didn't get drop. Those mobs have titles and are called NOTORIOUS monsters. Rare monsters should drop rare gear and FFXI should have rare monsters. It always has and since the cap incease they should invent new ones. These NMs should represent some value to killing/hunting them because they are such a rare sight, killing them should be the reward but to just invent a rare HNM/NM that drops nothing, that kinda lames it out. It's like "oh look! Its a one week spawn NM! Sure looks neat, wanna kill it? Nah cause it doesn't drop anything worthwhile.". It has to have some rare reward that justifies its rarity but also gives people who find it, some prize for killing/finding.


These same prizes should be available through other means because it is simply unfair to make a rare/elite/amazing item exclusive to something that requires so much time and LUCK, to people who don't enjoy playing around camps. Those people don't like luck because their time to devote to game is so minimal compared to the spawn time, luck playing a part in their success would mean little to no success and they are paying customers too.

However, like i said before, this ks99 fix is in there with einherjar in my honest opinion. This is NOT hard. Black belt is a flawless and stunning item and it should be rare. It should only be avilable via LUCK (HNM/NM spawns) or time/devotion/skill. You can farm kS99 on YOUR OWN TIME. Yes, it's time consuming but it's worth the itemand you can construct your game time around farming for ks99s. You can enter KS99 whenever you want and you have to focus to defeat ithe bcnm and the HNM.

I applaud SE for this fix. People didn't want to have to rely on camping kings for BB. Okay, so they added BB items to ks99, and now theyve made kings force pop. The means to obtain this item are more than reasonable and if you are not happy after all these fixes to accomdate your playtime/effort, you simply do NOT deserve the best gear in ffxi over someone who is willing to do it, camps/luck or no camps/luck.

They should change these HNMs to match the same as Lumbering Lambert and Bloodtear Baldurf.

1-3 hour window on Behemoth then HNM 24 hours off that.. it's what after 5 deaths king can pop? that.. 3, 6, 9, 12, 15.. 15 hours.. change it to after 7 pops king could pop and there you can kill behemoth more and king behemoth more and you dont have to play around with KSNMs.

.. and for all that is good don't lower the Black Belt items drop rate..

Yeah the change they made for this is insane id rather camp them and hope to get em then burn all my KS with the LS for 20+ NQ pops and get 1-2 HQ pops and items 90% of us already have. SE need to make the HQ pop items 100% to make this even remotly a good idea. i see HQ/NQ pop items for 2-3 mil and only a handfull of em at that.

So SE FIX this pls you made old HNM ls' ask wtf just to even do these anymore.

I think Making HQ pop ~20%(Before TH) would be a bit more realistic, something they might even consider...

Glad i got my Black Belt before the update. I can understand peoples frustrations in this. Good luck!

1: form a 3pt alli to increase rate of seals that drop.
2: farm bst pets. tigers out side of WoE give high KS i think.... so. lil lower LV pets and should only get BS/KS. Try bibiki bay gob pets.. should still be EP at this LV.. if not then newton/oldton i forget which has the higher LV mobs. are gob bats there. Either way the drop rate for seals off pets is very good.

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Originally Posted by sesucks

1: form a 3pt alli to increase rate of seals that drop.
2: farm bst pets. tigers out side of WoE give high KS i think.... so. lil lower LV pets and should only get BS/KS. Try bibiki bay gob pets.. should still be EP at this LV.. if not then newton/oldton i forget which has the higher LV mobs. are gob bats there. Either way the drop rate for seals off pets is very good.

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Why are you making this sound so complex? almost every mob in kuftal is above level 50 but below level 70, making them excellent targets.