Availability of HMPs, Riftcinders, Riftdross

I just had a super productive day in Vana'diel today. I beat Qilin 48 times and got no heavy metal pouches. Traded cells for each kill and everything.

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Originally Posted by Ulth

I just had a super productive day in Vana'diel today.

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Same - Finished off my crafting goal and made about 8mil.

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Originally Posted by Ulth

I just had a super productive day in Vana'diel today. I beat Qilin 48 times and got no heavy metal pouches. Traded cells for each kill and everything.

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Thats some extraordinarily bad luck, is your blue+red alignment 550% at the end? we always use rubi+cobalt and get at least 5 items from the pyxis.

I did 14x6 Aellos yesterday - a party of 4 LS players+2trusts and we got 21 pouches which comes out to a 1 in 16 droprate which is 6.25% which is extremely close to the ffxidb stats of 6% collected for uptala/qilin/aello on heavy metal pouches.

So there is either a drop penalty for a pure soloist if you arent doing it with others, or you are missing a KI thats preventing you from being 550% alignment with cells, or you had some bad luck, or qilin is bugged (everyone I know farms uptala or aello, so i have no data on qilin farming during the campaign)

I only use two cells instead of three because of how TH can't take alignment over 550% which is another upsetting thing about VW, so mine is more like 540% for red and blue, but yeah I have the oddest luck with VW. During this event I've gotten like 10 pouches yet against all odds somehow got a Coruscanti. It's annoying that luck is so dependent on making an empy. It makes me feel like I should just make the gil and buy them but that is a pretty unrewarding feeling. Even if I were to buy them there is still the problem of supply as there is not enough on the auction house, and it will probably get worst with the upcoming update.

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Originally Posted by Ulth

Pretty sure he still plays, unless that's another Kingfury I'm seeing around. Probably just doesn't draw portraits for people anymore. Which is understandable, the list of people wanting one from him is like a mile long. It must get tiring.

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Ah, I just thought he wasn't playing since he used to post on the boards but doesn't anymore. I just assumed that meant he was gone.

:)

Heavy Metal Pouches are a lot like t1 synths in that they are common enough that you get your hopes up but rare enough that you can have depressing streaks between good results. 1/16 load rate will mess with you.

Also Pulse weapons should load more often but that's neither here nor there.

Yeah but generally you only need a t1 synth once, though in the case of the new abjuration you need it twice in a row, but the problem is I need something like 150 heavy metal pouches right?

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Originally Posted by Ulth

Yeah but generally you only need a t1 synth once, though in the case of the new abjuration you need it twice in a row, but the problem is I need something like 150 heavy metal pouches right?

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I was just making the comparison that a 1/16 load rate is high enough that you expect to see something but low enough that you can be on the bad end of some brutal streaks.

Akvan / Kaggen / Pil will drop single metals about 1 in 3 times which can feel a bit more satisfying and consistent, but over the long run gives less metal per stone+time spent.
I'd suggest sticking with Qilin / Aello / Uptala if you are after metal though and accept its really streaky and focus on your long term average per 100 kills.

In general focused farming for RMEs for its specific currency to the exclusion of other activities to finish it has never been really advisable, and its a recipe for burning out on the game.

All my mythics for example were funded with drops from doing dynamis and voidwatch and selling those drops to buy alexandrite to supplement the progress from also running salvage.
When I made my 119 armageddon I used dynamis+salvage drops to fund the dross+hmp acquisition , and maintain a variety of activities to avoid burning out.

Is there any particular reason you guys stick to Qilin and co? Only reason I'd do them is if I wanted to simultaneously try my luck at a spiffy lockstyle item, otherwise as far as I know Botulus/Morta are still the best average value per pop, even if you felt like playing it safe and spent a few void clusters on them.

I originally started with morta mainly because I wanted to have 60 dross and cinder out of the way first.
Morta is better in terms of npcable pyxis gil return + overall value for sure.
I mainly did the sky vw NMs to farm as much of the metal as possible on my own since the supply is wildly fluctuating in availability+price (400 single metals were on the AH this morning and someone bought them all just as an example). I really didnt want to burn my gil reserve and rely on the AH stocked with metal to meet my needs - there are several people doing empyreans aggressively right now.

I only need 200hmp to finish my 1500 needed now, and if I decide to keep spamming voidwatch till the end of the event ill definitely go back and stick to Botulus/Morta with some bismarck thrown in for variety.

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Originally Posted by Kincard

Is there any particular reason you guys stick to Qilin and co? Only reason I'd do them is if I wanted to simultaneously try my luck at a spiffy lockstyle item, otherwise as far as I know Botulus/Morta are still the best average value per pop, even if you felt like playing it safe and spent a few void clusters on them.

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Qilin to me is pretty easy I normally kill in about a minute solo with trusts, I know because my trick attack timer isn't up by the end and it's merited 5/5. But yeah same reason, plates is what I'm worried about not being able to finish, and are in worst supply compared to the amount needed. Riftdross is cheap at 200k each and Riftcinder is on a downward trend from 1.5 mil to just 1 mil a 33% loss in value. Morta's other cash drop belladonna sap may also take a hit.

Don't worry they'll all start going back up in a few days

So with the campaign that ended, I am getting alot of feedback on how people blow through voiddust and not restoring fast enough to people getting burned out on farming HMPs, Riftdross/Riftcinders. From my experience and others, this didn't relieve any supply/demand issues and didnt make things a little more convenient. So, I hope the Dev is coming up with a better idea.

So let's compromise. I am sure the team has thought about adding more 119+ content. So, look into using Abyssea as that avenue. Have those NMs drop the HMP pouches, Riftdross/Riftcinders and other unique stuff where is would require 3+ people to tackle it. Looking for a dev response. Please advise.

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Originally Posted by BurnNotice

So with the campaign that ended, I am getting alot of feedback on how people blow through voiddust and not restoring fast enough to people getting burned out on farming HMPs, Riftdross/Riftcinders. From my experience and others, this didn't relieve any supply/demand issues and didnt make things a little more convenient. So, I hope the Dev is coming up with a better idea.

So let's compromise. I am sure the team has thought about adding more 119+ content. So, look into using Abyssea as that avenue. Have those NMs drop the HMP pouches, Riftdross/Riftcinders and other unique stuff where is would require 3+ people to tackle it. Looking for a dev response. Please advise.

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Then you have people complain they blew through their 2-7k stone stock for Abyssea and it's a never ending cycle until SE says "Ok, we'll just put the things on an NPC for you to buy it."

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Originally Posted by BurnNotice

So, look into using Abyssea as that avenue. Have those NMs drop the HMP pouches, Riftdross/Riftcinders and other unique stuff where is would require 3+ people to tackle it. Looking for a dev response. Please advise.

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Probably not going to happen. Abyssea is level 90 content, whereas VW is level 99.

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Originally Posted by Catmato

Probably not going to happen. Abyssea is level 90 content, whereas VW is level 99.

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They 2.0 Everything. literally. I would be much more shocked it there wasn't Higher Tier VW coming. Where it's located is the only caveat.

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Originally Posted by Vae

They 2.0 Everything. literally. I would be much more shocked it there wasn't Higher Tier VW coming. Where it's located is the only caveat.

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Same spot but you choose difficulty level. Expend more stones for higher difficulties lol

Monsters! Only monsters would speak of bringing back one of the worst loot systems ever conceived.

I got 4 Porthos Byrnies before the friend I was helping farm one got one. Porthos wasn't cell-able I had to just leave them in the chest.

Or my favorite, dude at his first Kaggen says "I got some body...?"

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Originally Posted by OmnysValefor

Monsters! Only monsters would speak of bringing back one of the worst loot systems ever conceived.

I got 4 Porthos Byrnies before the friend I was helping farm one got one. Porthos wasn't cell-able I had to just leave them in the chest.

Or my favorite, dude at his first Kaggen says "I got some body...?"

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I got Kaggen body in less than 10 runs but still don't have a Hekas even though I have done Akvan at least 500 times (probably way more) by this point.

The loot system wasn't exactly great but it did keep the content relevant for longer. VS now, when they release a new battle, hardcores have everything on it in like a week and then the content is dead... Also the fact that people of different gear levels can participate...

I know that VW is old content and probably not on the top of the list for development. However, the drop rates are even more of an issue now since it's no longer popular and items needed to upgrade empy weapons (and I'd throw in reforging relic armor too) is even harder to obtain.

Instead of rehashing a well stated problem, I would like to offer a solution. Can we implement a Delve or Vagary style method to allow players to buy drops. In Delve, players receive plasma for defeating monsters and NMs in the content. Players are then able to use the plasma to buy any drop from any Delve they have completed. This allows players to still obtain items they might not have been lucky enough to have obtained in the actual Delve. Vagary has a similar method allowing players to collect KIs that can be exchanged for zone drops. In both content players are rewarded for repeating the content even if they have no luck with treasure drops.

A similar system could be implemented in Voidwatch which would credit players for each successful battle and allow players to use those credits to purchase drops. Obviously this would change VW a bit and controls would need to be in place so that players cannot spam tier 1 fights and use them to purchase drops from tier 2 and tier 3 VWNMs. However, providing an alternate strategy for players to purchase drops (rather than dumb luck) would alleviate a lot of frustration.

While I am at it, it would be nice if UNM drops could also be purchased by exchanging a number of the UNMs signature drop. This is might be more controversial, but anytime people can be rewarded for work rather than luck is a good thing in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Lonnan

While I am at it, it would be nice if UNM drops could also be purchased by exchanging a number of the UNMs signature drop. This is might be more controversial, but anytime people can be rewarded for work rather than luck is a good thing in my opinion.

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It would be nice. Then people could just buy the item if they want and have trouble getting people to join in the content. There are lots of UNM I'd like stuff from but I don't have enough free time to justify spending hours shouting... would much rather do dynamis or something, sell the drops and get other things. Though I would love to do more of the content directly... but most people (who can hit things) have better gear options than 119-121 UNM offer and so are not super into doing those NMs.

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Originally Posted by Olor

I got Kaggen body in less than 10 runs but still don't have a Hekas even though I have done Akvan at least 500 times (probably way more) by this point.

The loot system wasn't exactly great but it did keep the content relevant for longer. VS now, when they release a new battle, hardcores have everything on it in like a week and then the content is dead... Also the fact that people of different gear levels can participate...

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Haha. So like I was actually trying farm the bullet on a cor mule I don't plan on taking to 99... that mule by itself got 4 heka bodies before bullet. Not that Heka body was raining down but I just did that many before it dropped. Oddly though no one buying the pulses which I thought people would still want them. Oh well.

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Originally Posted by dasva

Haha. So like I was actually trying farm the bullet on a cor mule I don't plan on taking to 99... that mule by itself got 4 heka bodies before bullet. Not that Heka body was raining down but I just did that many before it dropped. Oddly though no one buying the pulses which I thought people would still want them. Oh well.

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I'd be willing to buy pulses but not at the price people are asking... the body is not good enough to justify spending 2.5 mil on it anymore. Not when I could use that gil to buy something relevant.

Also that's very bad luck on the bullet. I have at least 3 of them. They don't drop that often though.

I have it, got it years ago (on the other hand, there's a few vw pieces I could never get) but I'd definitely spend 2m for a heka's. It's only a macro piece these days, but it's such a potent one. The same can't really be said for Mekira/Toci's.

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Originally Posted by OmnysValefor

I have it, got it years ago (on the other hand, there's a few vw pieces I could never get) but I'd definitely spend 2m for a heka's. It's only a macro piece these days, but it's such a potent one. The same can't really be said for Mekira/Toci's.

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Can you explain what it's used to macro these days? Am I missing something that other pieces can't do better? I am not always sure what is good for what...

I would hope one day they will be used for something like crystal petrifacts. Tons of lvl 99 gear, especially good ones from VW and Salvage, gone to waste. Especially those unique weapons HQ weapons from VW til this day tons of people still haven't seen dropped.

You know what would be cold-blooded? If the dev team decided to use those weapons as part the Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Ergon Weapon Reforging (knock on wood).

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Originally Posted by BurnNotice

I would hope one day they will be used for something like crystal petrifacts. Tons of lvl 99 gear, especially good ones from VW and Salvage, gone to waste. Especially those unique weapons HQ weapons from VW til this day tons of people still haven't seen dropped.

You know what would be cold-blooded? If the dev team decided to use those weapons as part the Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Ergon Weapon Reforging (knock on wood).

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I actually thought about this the other day. We already have a universal currency system that (mostly) comes from completing high tier content and this is copper vouchers. Copper vouchers can already be used to purchase 119 REM upgrade mats, how hard would it be to add HMPS, Riftcinders, and Rift Dross to that list. Sure people will get some CVs from daily and time based RoE, but most of my vouchers come from exchanging unwanted gear. They could also add crystal petricfacts and sliver mirrors to the list of exchangable items. Ok since that content isn't 119, maybe they are only worth 400 or 200 points, but they drop a whole lot more often than the Empy upgrade mats and if you could turn them into CVs and the CVs into the needed mats, you are still making progress even when the VW gods aren't smiling your way. Plus it doesn't require the Devs to tinker with VW so it should be cheap and easy to implement. Just a thought.

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Originally Posted by Lonnan

I actually thought about this the other day. We already have a universal currency system that (mostly) comes from completing high tier content and this is copper vouchers. Copper vouchers can already be used to purchase 119 REM upgrade mats, how hard would it be to add HMPS, Riftcinders, and Rift Dross to that list. Sure people will get some CVs from daily and time based RoE, but most of my vouchers come from exchanging unwanted gear. They could also add crystal petricfacts and sliver mirrors to the list of exchangable items. Ok since that content isn't 119, maybe they are only worth 400 or 200 points, but they drop a whole lot more often than the Empy upgrade mats and if you could turn them into CVs and the CVs into the needed mats, you are still making progress even when the VW gods aren't smiling your way. Plus it doesn't require the Devs to tinker with VW so it should be cheap and easy to implement. Just a thought.

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That's a good point. It does make since to do it that way. Now if we can get the Dev team to see this point of view or any worthwhile suggestions, we will be in good shape. There's another forum with a discussion about a VW 2.0. It seems a lot of people want to see that happen for a few key reasons:

1) Content for all jobs to participate in at lvl 119+. I know some may say "Well, that's what Unity NMs are for". Which leads to the next reason.

2) Increase chance being reward a HMP pouch, Riftcinders, Riftdross, and new gear. Plus, an opportunity to for players to receive there own coffer after each win and stacking them just like Incursion and Unity battles.

3) Clearly, this was something that most people really did enjoy (then SR took the spotlight for a bit in a great way) and this is without the focus on HMPs Riftdross/Cinders.

So hopefully they will take your suggestion and others from this forum and the VW forum and really do something for us. This can be a win win for the dev and us without having the team to expand more resource.

Whether it makes sense or not is arguable. Being able to get HMP from vouchers would cause the market to crash, just like beitetsu, plutons, and boulders.

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Originally Posted by OmnysValefor

Whether it makes sense or not is arguable. Being able to get HMP from vouchers would cause the market to crash, just like beitetsu, plutons, and boulders.

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Honestly, I am pretty sure it wouldn't crash the economy since there are tons of methods of making gil. Alexs and relic currencies surely didn't so I know this wouldn't. Plus SE can always make it where you can exchange 1 CV for 1 HMP or 5 for 1 Riftdross/Riftcinder for the purpose of balance. As much as I hate to have suggested that and hoping for 1 for 1, this seems like a realistic and balanced suggestion that should be consider. The only objection I can foresee is if they do it for this, then they have to do it for relic currencies, alexs, and HPB (even though you can exchange bayld for HPB already).

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Originally Posted by BurnNotice

Honestly, I am pretty sure it wouldn't crash the economy since there are tons of methods of making gil. Alexs and relic currencies surely didn't so I know this wouldn't. Plus SE can always make it where you can exchange 1 CV for 1 HMP or 5 for 1 Riftdross/Riftcinder for the purpose of balance. As much as I hate to have suggested that and hoping for 1 for 1, this seems like a realistic and balanced suggestion that should be consider. The only objection I can foresee is if they do it for this, then they have to do it for relic currencies, alexs, and HPB (even though you can exchange bayld for HPB already).

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Realistically it would be 10 vouchers per plate. 1 voucher is worth 10k gil +/- Not a damn thing would change with the economy if they added them at 10 vouchers each. It takes an entire 24 hours to get 10 vouchers, maybe longer tbh... you only get 1 every 4 hours and 1 for some daily's.

There is NO REASON that you shouldn't be able to buy HMP/Cinder/Dross/Marrow/Scoria/everything else under the sun for merits from the goblin or straight up market value from an NPC. Yeah, market value fluxuates. I don't think ANYONE would argue against paying even 150k per plate, for an unlimited supply.

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Originally Posted by Vae

People do not deserve 100k per plate for afk beating a 99 content mob to death blindfolded.

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Why is it bull? Because some people are quite willing to spend a campaign farming what others (including myself) are not?

I have no qualms about alternative means for acquiring HMP, but I don't think they should be so carelessly available as beitetsu etc are.

30,000 alex was just as much an absurd slap in the face. SE found ways to make the effort reasonable without utterly destroying the market. Once I'm done farming my burtgang, I can see how I can make decent gil farming a salvage or two every few days.

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Originally Posted by BurnNotice

Honestly, I am pretty sure it wouldn't crash the economy since there are tons of methods of making gil. Alexs and relic currencies surely didn't so I know this wouldn't. Plus SE can always make it where you can exchange 1 CV for 1 HMP or 5 for 1 Riftdross/Riftcinder for the purpose of balance. As much as I hate to have suggested that and hoping for 1 for 1, this seems like a realistic and balanced suggestion that should be consider. The only objection I can foresee is if they do it for this, then they have to do it for relic currencies, alexs, and HPB (even though you can exchange bayld for HPB already).

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But...it absolutely did crash the economy for beitetsu etc. Doing the same thing for plates would do the same thing.

Again, no problem with alternative means, but this idea of vouchers for plates is an irrational reaction. Have escha t1s drop a plate (or two), have escha t2's possibly drop a pouch and have t3s guaranteed drop a pouch or "case" (containing a fixed amount).

anyone reading my posts would see I am generally supportive of making things have more options/more reasonable to obtain but plates should only come from content, not from copper vouchers... Can't get ancient currency or alex from it.

Eventually this thread will probably have to be renamed "Availability of HMPs, Riftcinders, Riftdross, Bietetsus, Plutons, Riftborn Boulders" :cool:

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Eventually this thread will probably have to be renamed "Availability of HMPs, Riftcinders, Riftdross, Bietetsus, Plutons, Riftborn Boulders" :cool:

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It's heading in that direction.

Ok, I understand the objection of using CVs. Any other suggestions? I am sure there is something the Dev can consider. Again, I am all for it being under some 119+ that everyone be involved in as an alternative.

-More guaranteed drop slots
-Faster voidstone generation
-Streamline void dust process and consider 1 void dust -> completely refill your voidstones
-Add Pluton/Beitetsu/Boulders somehow

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Eventually this thread will probably have to be renamed "Availability of HMPs, Riftcinders, Riftdross, Bietetsus, Plutons, Riftborn Boulders" :cool:

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Pretty much even though it takes little to no effort and have multiple ways to get some of them already. Just seems people really don't want to do the content that drops them and for some reason, against Copper Vouchers.