[dev1000] Dynamis Reborn!

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Originally Posted by Catmato

Just like Abyssea is bot city right now.

Oh wait...

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In some respects, it is. There is some alleviation with the forced pops, but there are some preferred pops (*cough*Heqet*cough*) that can get real questionable over the course of time.

I just wanna say something: I like dynamis the way it is right now SE!!!!!!!!!!!!!, and i don't even completed the first ones, i don't want a real cool zone gimped, i want a challenge no another abyssea like zone

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Originally Posted by Wenceslao

I just wanna say something: I like dynamis the way it is right now SE!!!!!!!!!!!!!, and i don't even completed the first ones, i don't want a real cool zone gimped, i want a challenge no another abyssea like zone

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Which comes down to the question as to whether FFXI == (equals and is defined as) Abyssea.

Really guys, Dymanis is enjoyable and hard as it is, why not make abyss harder? instead of gimp dynamis, lol

I don't know why I worked so hard on my relic weapons before...

SE you spitted on me...

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Originally Posted by Camate

Hey everyone,

I wanted to shed some light on a correction we made to the original post:

• Monster claim and item drops will work the same way as in regular fields and dungeons.

Sorry for the earlier confusion and I hope this clears things up!

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I do not approve of this...I hate this....Dyna is just fine...doing this is just messing it up.

Instanced Dyna = win, Dyna freeforall = gtfo

if they increase mob lv inside dyna it will be harder than it is now and you cantt compare it to abysea your not gettin +50 stat +hp mp or atmass

dynmias inst hard anymore that's the point.. you can do it easily with 6 people.. whats been wrong with dynamis from the beginning is its Costly and "reserving the zone" when its not instanced prevented alot of people from being able t odo it.. now it will be accessible to everyone! they did not say they were going to gimp the mobs or anything.. its just going to be more accessible.

Don't understand why anyone would not like this, especially since you can go daily, there's no global loot pool which should have made people happy (e.g. its not like walk of echoes) and you're basically free to do it when you want.

To the "oh noes its freeforall nothx" people: You afraid of crowds or something? I can guarantee you it's not going to be that bad. Everyone's in abyssea.

There is no way for them to "instance" dynamis. Even the areas people call "instanced" are not really instanced- they have a limited capacity and you can be blocked from entering if just a few groups are inside those areas. The "instancing" is achieved through the areas having several copies of the terrain stacked outside of shouting distance of eachother. It's not like in WoW where everyone is in their own little world in a dungeon. So, considering instancing is not possible (good luck cramming more than one Beaucadine or Xarcabard terrain map within the game engine's world space), making it an open area is really the next best option.

I think you guy kinda missing the point of dynamis, it been for several year an hostile zone where any random action could make the run a total waste, where everyone actually have to pay 100% attention to they action. The strategy was the ultimate way to success, making this event in my opinion the best ever event SE did.

If you look at WoE is pretty much close to dynamis, the only 2 difference is:
* Open zone
* Lottery

Making this event hard to love, the strategy is not anymore how to play the event but more about anticipate the bad action from random member that will enter in your event. The LOOT system was not bad itself, but since is an open event there some people that found a work around to just screw up everyone.

I really can't see where people base they opinion when they say is going to be awesome. The only real way SE could set all these issue is for sure by turning Dynamis in easy mode. No way these zone will remain the same. (NM trigger, Mass link of death). It would be so chaos, so in the end what SE is about to do is to change dynamis at the point where only the name will remain the same.

They said CoP will stay the same, i guess that the only part that kinda make me happy.. Well assuming everyone love the change they about to do, because if all this end up to be like campaign, and everyone lost they interest of dynamis V2 after 6 month, then is just another waste...

An update to dynamis would require an update to ALL items aquired from it to equal or surpass abyssea.
Just because the area and gear is out of date doesn't mean it has to be updated. If it's nessissary to go back and change one, you'll have to go back and change them all.

I'm funding a relic by buying the currency from the linkshell, we sell it at the going rate and split the proceeds minus enough to pay for the glass.

The concerns I have are not about relics/coins, they are about logistics. Currently, you need the key items from the four city wins to enter Beaucedine. You need the key item from Beaucedine to enter Xarcabard. And you need to beat the Dynamis Lord to win Xarcabard. There are still a lot of players that have not reached level 65/been in a Dynamis yet.

To win in each zone, you need to kill certain NMs to spawn the Zone boss. In Xarcabard, the zone boss can drop a couple of nice items along with currency. I'm betting this will make him a farming target if he is a popped boss.

How are the changes going to balance the needs of the people who need city/beaucedine/xarcabard wins against those of the people just wanting to farm nms? Is there going to be one ??? for every nm people need to pop for a win that doesn't have anything farmable and one ??? pop for people who are farming? Or is it going to be free for all where people going for the win or farming can each be frustrated in their efforts by a group that is going for the other endeavor?

Or are you going to remove the 4 city wins to Beaucedine to Xarcabard path completely and just allow anyone to enter any Dynamis they want?

DEV are not talking much about the direction all this is going, and i am surprise some jump on conclusion that will be such of amazing upgrade. But yes, there so many thing they have to change to make this possible. I kinda hope we can finish the 4th relic before this update come out, so i am not forced to join something that i probably will hate.

R.I.P. Dynamis.

Dynamis dose not need to be updated. This is simply a case of complainers being as vocal as ever.
If you need an update to gear and weapons, go after the new ones. Just because you have something already, doesnt' mean that you have to use it forever. If you update one set of gear, then why shouldn't you update all of it? Since dynamis needs to be stronger/better, why shouldn't level 1 gear have larger bonusses? Why shouldn't Fields of Valor pages be more challenging? Why not re-cap COP too?

As far as i know, is the same jealous player complaining how they did not success in this event, asking none stop to SE to change it just to give them a chance.

In reality we all know what about to happen, my LS might die from this update, but another will find the way to monopolizing the event. In the end the same player will be mad + my ls might be dead. [very great idea]

Ive been doing dynamis long enough to have face multi LS that did not survive more then 6 month, and reason are multiple. Just take me for reference, i was in dynamis for 3 yr before doing mine, ive been facing enough unfair issue with leader of my linkshell, i was also doing most of his duty job... I ended to conclusion i was just wasting my time with them, and instead i did my own linkshell that turned in the first week more successful then the one i was in. Also just sad how his linkshell died the next 2~3 week.

The true story about dynamis and QQ, are the same as for every event in the game, everyone are ready to join a linkshell, take advantage of knowledge from all the leader and take every drop over everyone just because they feel is right. People are good at QQ for everything, but give them the leader status and they are PETRIFIED about what to do. Leading for me been more then abuse of my power, i had to deal with many issue that most of 'general' player will never face, i don't think i have explain any. In the end all i can say is how i success to keep a group tight and together.

As much as it can sound unfair for some about leader decision, like who sponsor, who take item, the option to do your own dynamis always been open, and you all could have done the same as i did when i was in total disagree with my leader. Leading a group is a challenge too, is not easy to make everyone happy, and trust me leader have way more to considerate then the general cry baby.

Maybe it sound unfair to you if i refuse you to sponsor in my LS, but trust me to me is even more unfair if i would tell one of my member that support us for 4yr, sorry Mr.Bob with zillion more gil then you will take your spot. Is reason my LS as many other dynamis LS are still alive, they found they way and they support, and this update is about to just erase that synergy. In the end like i said, someone else will take our place, be ready to deal with something that might be different but not necessary better as it is atm.

You dont need to change the system to change dynamis. tbh there was nothing wrong with the system, it was functioning perfectly for years prior to abyssea. The reason the player base for dyna is dying is, as you said, because there is almost nothing worth getting from there for the masses of FFXI (sure every couple of people are gonna go after the relic weapons, but only so many!). In MY OPINION what SE should have done was make the rewards higher, perhaps introduce new gear and relic +2. Changing the system, in this case, is just lowering the standard: something i find unnecessary since people in FFXI are trying to get away from the over "simplified /easy post-Abyssea" world FFXI is turning into.

Honestly... i'm inclined to agree that the reason dynamis has died is because people have what they wanted from it...those that still play and that have been playing for years... (including those that got what they wanted, then quit the game and are now back)... so in retrospect this should be a welcome change to old content---now if it's done right...well, it'll be an ENHANCEMENT to the system, not a detriment. My suggestion: Wait and see what's released... i'm sure the SE Devs have gotten more than enough of a whiff of the direction the player base wishes to see this game going and are making adjustments they deem are necessary to fit that new mold.

Large Dynamis linkshells as they currently exist will no longer work. THey will have to adapt to the new system. That's not impossible to do.

Having a single person pay for a run's hourglass will no longer work, as it will now be a one-time purchase. However, these 'run sponsors' can instead put their gil towards purchasing more currency, as at least some players will be entering dynamis on a daily basis to farm currency for profit. (Chances are RMTs will try to do this, so keep an eye out for them to report them to the GMs.)

This is not the end of Dynamis. As it is, even 12 players of level 90 can clean out a zone with the right mix of jobs; and it is reasonable, I feel, to assume that the new Key Item system for NM pops will make zone bosses (including the Dynamis Lord) feasible to take on.

The questions I have are if it will be possible for an alliance to take out the dynamis weapons quickly enough, and if Yin and Yang will still need to be slain simultaneously or not.

I am in a Dyna shell, we usually run with 12-13ish players, granted there are times we have a complete wipe, but then again it fun. We have 2 people doing relic, so, we have their runs (we have 2 runs a week) and bank runs . Lol, i love the small group, sometimes we have less people and you have to really concentrate on what you do and what others need etc... The nice point of a small group is that we have a good income derived from bank runs at the end of the month and we had fun.

I'm very confused as to what will actually happen with the updates to Dyna, but I can't imagine them making it wide open for all to play at the same time as some have suggested. I am of the opinion that they will make it like Nyzul, many groups in there own little world at any given time. I want to see changes in Dyna, but I think SE need to be a little more forth coming on what they actually thinking of doing, save on forum space.

The logistics of the currency are puzzling to me, if i understand them correctly, SE wants to let me run Dynamis MORE frequently for LESS currency.

Currently I spend 7 hours a week in Dynamis and in those 2 runs my shell can make probably a little more than 6 million gil. After these changes if I'm understanding things correctly I will now need to spend even MORE time in Dynamis to obtain the same amount of currency? I don't understand how this motivates MORE people to enter and run Dynamis. Can someone at SE please enlighten me as to how this is a positive change for the people that habitually run Dynamis currently? It seems like SE is saying we're gonna have to work harder for the same level of loot...

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Originally Posted by lllen

I want to see changes in Dyna, but I think SE need to be a little more forth coming on what they actually thinking of doing, save on forum space.

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Maybe they have no clue yet, they just tossed 'reborn dynamis' with vague info just to see everyone reaction? Or maybe they completely know where they actually going and just wan to anticipate general reaction.

For sure i would like someone from DEV to come in and release a bit more info, specially after 180 post, 13,000+ view.

This new Dynamis sounds amazing. The older I get, and the more involved developing my career and personal life, the less time I have to sink into the old FFXI style of gameplay. Any way SE can make the game more accessible and not such a GIGANTIC time sink, I'm all for it. I'd love to be able to log in, get a six man party and go run around in some Dynamis. I can't understand how folks here can defend an aging battlefield that holds little incentive aside from Relic currency, and can last up to three hours. If this indeed makes Relics easier to obtain, flipping AMAZING. After you do manage to acquire one, you still have to do trials to get it up to lv.90.

Please remember one of my main precepts of this game to understand why this appears to be a VERY bad idea:

Many players get their enjoyment of the game by denying other players that same enjoyment. They win once by getting advancement, and a second time by denying yours.

Unless some constraint is put into all of this, I see "link of death" being a very common occurrence in new-Dyna.

I don't care about Dynamis (anymore) so I won't go into the discussion if this change is a good thing as I never liked Dynamis but at least I got through it. It always was way too tedious and repetitive but that is just my personal opinion.

However, there is something else that I find very questionable.
Is this just the first step into "new" semi-endgame by rehashing the old one and change how it works?
We do not know if they will toss into new equipment, which I hope that they won't do that!
In the end I just don't want to see only rehashed stuff!

I envision it working somewhat like abyssea in a sense, where it can support multiple groups of 3-6.

Xarcabard and Beaucedine are easier to predict, since they have the room to support large camps of demons/gigas/orcs/etc... If a group wants to fight Prince Seere for Cleric's Mitts, they farm a pop item, spawn and kill it - and it'll be free for another attempt or the next group after a few minutes.

Shadow Lord perhaps will be spawned by collecting a Key Item from each of the major NMs.

It's tough to predict what they'll do with the city zones... and I can't see them having stuff like the Death House in Windurst anymore - as any idiot can gank the zone at any time in that case.

From the sounds of it - Dynamis will be "always open" like Abyssea - without the zone needing to "reset" like WoE... For example, if we're given 100 minutes in the new dynamis - we get that full 100 minutes despite anyone who entered the zone prior to us.

Also - it may be possible Kindred Crests and High Kindred Crests will be used as pop items for NMs in these zones.

Questions for the Devs:

- Many people are "done" with Dynamis. Will new gear be obtained from Dynamis along with these changes?

- Will there be an increase in enemy difficulty?

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Unless some constraint is put into all of this, I see "link of death" being a very common occurrence in new-Dyna.

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You highly overestimate the number of destructive players in the game. This doesn't happen that much in Abyssea, and since dynamis is sitll going to be far less played than abyssea, it's not going to happen much there either.

Here is something that I don't think a lot of people realize. NOT ALL but a fair portion of the in game Economy IS Affected by Dynamis. Like it or not people by currency because they like relics. And the prices of currency vary due to the: Supply and Demand. However you won't have the Demand if you don't have crafters/campers/farmers/etc. The Demand won't be there if the GIL isn't there. So what happens when you make something that DOES have a fair amount of affect MORE available to people.... One of two things will happen. Prices will freefall because the supply is Vastly superior.... or then will skyrocket because EVERYONE will be trying to do a relic. As I said in my post earlier:

[SIZE="5"]IF IT ISN'T BROKEN DON'T TRY TO FIX IT![/SIZE]

If you think about it now that Dynamis is easier due to the level cap increase and the new gear.... More currency drops due to TH increases, etc. My Linkshell alone noticed a rough 30-35% increase in currency. Our LS ALSO only runs with an average of 18-24 people. We are fair in the decisions of who sponsors and who doesn't. At this current time we have only 2 sponsors. Myself and one other who is just starting. The only reason we only have 2 and not more is because I'm so close to being done we are mainly focusing on finishing mine. Once mine is completed we have 3 other people lined up to step in and sponsor based on the current Currency needs for the Relic they are trying to complete. So coupled with the already higher drop rates we could literally have a Relic for each member within a couple years.

Now let's say we take and open up the dynamis zones so ANYONE can be in a area. Groups will fight over mobs and ??? spawns. Everyone will be lotting currency some people will sell it and some will keep it. But what happens when the balance of sell/keep shifts one way or the other. THE ENTIRE economy would be affected.

MORE SELL: Supply is massive and the price falls through the floor.
MORE KEEP: The Supply becomes limited and prices skyrocket. So crafters/campers/farmers/etc. will begin charging more for the items they are selling to make up for the increased prices and the lack of supply.

Now SE if you are listening... DON'T BREAK WHAT AIN'T BROKEN

so ITT: is all logical to destroy the old system of an event that still support over 1,000 player, just because everyone don't like it. Good analogy lol

What i am saying is... there still 1,000+ enjoying and playing dynamis, even if the gear is worthless and E.Wep is an alternative. In the change there no plan for new AF gear, only new pop system that is related to abyssea. I think is fair enough to say they could have done this to Sky where obviously is way more dead then dynamis. And even if Sky still have player loving it, adding new pop would not disturb they event since is already open area, but have more chance to actually revive it by creating a new reason to do Sky.

[1,000 is my personal estimation, just my linkshell is 30 member total, 14 member average at every event. And there 5 linkshell running at same time then us, that make a minimum of 150 player just for 1 server for 2 day/week out of 7day/week] Is probably even more then 1,000 over all server.... but let just say 1,000...

I can see how much these updates can make relic upgrade trials (for attestation NM and whatever's next) easier or at least quicker to complete, but all the same, for the love of moogles do not make me have to kill Animated Longsword umpteen times (the next thematically appropriate step) or worse, get however-many Holy Fragments. In fact, I don't want to have to step foot in dynamis for anymore relic trials, give me my 2000 killshot trials back.

I liked being able to solo my relic trials, no matter the time it took. I didn't like having to try and organize runs for an event no one wanted to do, hours of others' people time for little gain besides a tally mark off a few people's trials. And all the waiting, worrying about when/if I'll get the next run. I was lucky and after a few weeks managed to get into a group doing dynamis runs for killing the attestation NMs, but it dissolved before I was finished and getting the rest was a monumental headache.

Again, I see how much this new update could help out with regards to completing trials that require something in dynamis (eliminating a lot of the waiting, potentially making it so that you get pop item >> walk to ??? >> pop it and kill in something less than a couple hours once a day for however many days), but all the same, I'd much rather solo something no matter how grindy rather than have more dynamis stuff to do and having to cross my fingers and hope the update dice roll in my favor.

P.S. I'm sure some Mythic owners want killshot trials back too!

Dynamis as we know it will be gone; if it's like Abyssea, that could be awesome as long as the zones can support multiple farming groups.

On the flip side, the storyline type "epic battle versus the trapped Beastman Confederate hordes!" feeling will probably be gone; I do not see a way to "lay siege" to the nightmare zones when the whole zone isn't reserved for your group.

So, instead of having one epic battle of your side versus theirs, you will take part in a much larger battle that constantly rages between the trapped Beastman forces and many groups of adventurers; a perpetual battle which never ends, similar to Abyssea. That can work too, and will likely be just as fun.

With Key Item pop progression, you can even force the same order of kills for certain events (most notably killing the Demonic Nobility to pop Dynamis Lord, or the Vanguard Eye that pops Attestation NMs). While the pulling will obviously be different, and paths through the zones taken by groups to complete the "original goals" (which in this case would require a succession of Key Item pops) will be revised, it is possible (though difficult) to maintain the same challenge as before. This, along with an increase in level for the mobs, will provide a refreshing change to an old event which has needed a makeover for years.

If all of that comes to pass in that way, it will be a great update.

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Originally Posted by Lost1anguage

Can someone at SE please enlighten me as to how this is a positive change for the people that habitually run Dynamis currently?

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I doubt their goal is to create positive change for the people who habitually run Dynamis - because practically nobody does that. Yes, you will probably get less currency per run, but you will be able to enter with more flexibility. There will be more currency spread among the population, which will be an overall net benefit to the economy.

I am going to miss "old dynamis" (although Dreamlands aren't changing), but I'm happy to see that SE are willing to be bold and make changes like this.

Honestly I am afraid that SE just really messed up big time. Dynamis is fun, but doing it everyday will make it a chore. I'm sorry SE but you screwed the pooch on this move. Making the zones instance yes please, but where everyone is in one zone? how is this going to work on Relic AF drops? some shells have 2 Alliances and we can lot in both, but if 300 people are in one zone how is this going to work?

Bleu_Lakshmi Dude... GO READ my post. Seriously. Do you not understand that it will NOT be good for the economy?

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Here is something that I don't think a lot of people realize. NOT ALL but a fair portion of the in game Economy IS Affected by Dynamis.

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Dynamis doen't greatly affect the economy anymore. You can just as easily get gil from gold boxes in abyssea (34k to NPC augmented dark rings anyone?), and because it's not done that often anymore, Dynamis is no longer the major gil sink it was at its inception.

As far as not broken dont fix- Just because it was a popular event, doesn't mean it wasn't broken or didn't need fixing. Everyone hated the scheduling and conflicts and getting "jumped" by enother LS that wasn't willing to negotiate. I for one got real tired of not being able to do the runs we wanted to do. This greatly solves the dynamis problem by letting people more or less go when they want, with however many people they want, and not get locked out because someone else wanted to do the same thing as them.

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Do you not understand that it will NOT be good for the economy?

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Any actual effect on the economy that you're implying will be slight at best, for reasons I've stated above. Abyssea easily takes its place for gil generation (as abyssea actually generates gil unlike dynamis which takes some out and redistributes the rest) and dynamis already lacks it's gil sink capacity because it is not often played anymore.

Umm your not on Asura are you? on Asura we have a few shells that delight in zone jacking and yes even in Taking claimed NMs in Abyssea. So yes I see this becoming a big problem and one more thing what about Time Extentions in Dynamis how is that going to work? IF its mobs that repop, some shells will camp them and other shells will get booted for lack of time. Is it going to be a set time or time in chests?

Alhanelem

You seriously don't understand the economy? How long have you been playing the game?? 4-5years at the most? I have been playing this game since it was in BETA. Abyssea has NO NONE ZIP ZERO effect on the economy. Why? BECAUSE IT IS FREE TO ENTER. Seriously have you ever taken an Economics course in High schoool or College? Granted Gil generation became easier due to Abyssea. HOWEVER CONSUMABLES VIA CRAFTING Still have the HIGHEST affect on the economy. GUESS WHAT! Most of the crafters WANT EVERYTHING. AKA Relics/Mythics/Empyrean. What they can't get by crafting THEY BUY WITH GIL. Where do they get there gil? Crafting Consumables/Buying it from RMT/etc.

All offense intended... YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE BIG PICTURE.

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Originally Posted by Bleu_Lakshmi

I doubt their goal is to create positive change for the people who habitually run Dynamis - because practically nobody does that. Yes, you will probably get less currency per run, but you will be able to enter with more flexibility. There will be more currency spread among the population, which will be an overall net benefit to the economy.

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Currently, Dynamis favors people who sponsor runs. The sponsor pays for the glass, the price of which is minuscule compared to the current market value of the currency. You pay those who do the run with either relic armor drops or a promise that you will be doing their relic in the future. Both of which cost the sponsor no Gil. And, often we see people at the bottom of the chain get the shaft when those who got their relic suddenly move on or the Dynamis shell breaks. It doesn't always happen that way. But it happens a lot.

In the new system, currency drops at an unknown lower rate. But the frequency of entry increases 3 fold. Also, the change in Dynamis may make more people do it, fewer people do it, or the same number of people. And people may do it 1 - 7 times a week. I believe the amount of time people can be in the zone has not been announced nor has it been determined if a large number of people in a zone means people would be idle waiting for mobs to pop. Just these factors alone, and there will be others, make for a formula that has so many variables that it would be impossible to determine what the overall impact to currency 'in play' would be.

Now, take the fact that the currency has been dispersed to a wider population who may act with that currency in different ways. Some will sell at market price, some will undercut, some will buy and resell at a profit, as well as the fact that more people may decide to embark upon a relic.

So with a possible wide variance in currency availability, odds are the price of currency will be affected. But how, no one knows. But, whatever the change in currency value, unless it completely tanks, people who used the sponsored runs method will probably find it more costly to complete a relic.

The bottom line is that no one who was completing their relic through sponsored runs wants to see the system changed. Personally, I hate the sponsored run system because it relied on the masses working for gear that was provided by S/E or promises that often went unfulfilled in exchange for allowing someone to have all the dropped currency. Thus, you will see a large number of people who are using sponsored runs to get their gear argue vehemently against changing the system. And most will attempt to use arguments that cannot be substantiated prior to the change versus the argument that will most likely be true, "my relic will cost me more."

Your desire to be insulting and use offense discredits anything you're saying. Sorry, and no offense intended here. And I've been playing since the NA release. Your behavior, which demonstrates both immaturity and a lack of understanding of economics, should signal to others to take your posts with a very large grain of salt. Being hateful and USING LOTS OF CAPS does not enhance your argument.

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Abyssea has NO NONE ZIP ZERO effect on the economy. Why? BECAUSE IT IS FREE TO ENTER.

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You're blind, no offense, if you don't see the impact abyssea has on the economy. Producing tons and tons of items that people can NPC for gil adds gil into the economy, whilst none is taken out. The only reason prices haven't skyrocketed is because there isn't that much worth buying these days. Producing gil has just as much effect on the economy as taking it out. It's not about who or where the gil goes to, it's about how much is produced and how much is removed.

I fully understand the big picture. It is you who does not.

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The bottom line is that no one who was completing their relic through sponsored runs wants to see the system changed.

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I'm really not sure why. You most likely won't need a whole LS full of people to help you anymore, because you can go more often with a small team of friends and still make progress just fine, and on top of that, you don't have to pay out 500k a run anymore. I don't see how this hurts anyone who was doing sponsored runs.