To Dev's, are there any plans to fix Neo Nyzul Isle?

Here come the neo-nyzul bards.

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Originally Posted by Thore

They've certainly "fixed" NNI alright...

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Like swatting a fly with a shotgun blast.

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Originally Posted by Crimson_Slasher

Here come the neo-nyzul bards.

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Yup, indeed, until their next fix which will destroy soul voice and pretty much any good 2 hours ability worth their salts. It's the "let's destroy the game, drive the players insane so they quit the game altogether" new mantra. Weeks after weeks of shitty updates and worst balancing ever. You think that Tanaka was worst, seems like this new director is the spawn of Satan himself lol.

Maybe it's just me, but at first glance, the embrava nerf looks like it will make it harder for people to get the gear, even though they only need to get to 80 five times.

shoudn't be a trouble with your awesome cheats.

Could we please not start this stupid shit again? -_-

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Maybe it's just me, but at first glance, the embrava nerf looks like it will make it harder for people to get the gear, even though they only need to get to 80 five times.

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Of course it will. That's what they want. In their eyes no one is supposed to be 15/15 or probably even 5/15 at this point. Just like a casino they don't want us walking away winners. That's bad for business.

What confuses me is SE's insistence on grindfest themed gameplay. We've been here for 9 years more or less, having fun despite the grind. Is it impossible to hope for content that focuses on fun instead of gear hunting to get better gear, tags, and restrictions? I realize an incentive is what gets most people to do events even though they may not be so entertaining, but it's getting to the point where logging in and deciding what to do for the evening amounts to choosing events in order of how boring they are. I can't remember the last time I logged in and had fun doing an event, and while that may be a personal issue I don't know anyone ingame who ever comments on how fun that VW run was or how much fun they had farming Dyna or Sea, etc. My LS mates and I sit around and joke over beers with this game acting as an animated chatroom, stuff we do just runs together into a hot derpy mess.

I've wandered away from the point a bit, I and many others are going to continue to play this game until the servers shut down, so why does SE keep designing events focused so heavily around restrictions instead of fun? Currently the game is only fun when I'm drunk and relatively boring at any other time. :(

^Words of truth. I have had a friend tell me 1 time a VW party was fun, and have had the same feeling myself, but it is rare, mostly only when one of us are on RDM or PLD then the party all dies & we somehow tank the NM for 2 minutes without dying or anyone healing us, so everyone can recover. Though I'm not sure if thats because its fun, or because your the job no one else plays or normally brings along but your showing off by saving everyones ass.

I just have to reply to this about being good vs bad group to win a certain percentage of the time. I have done NNI about 20 times now and of those 20 times I have never had less then 2 Lamp order floors, I have never recieved more then 5 floor skip, and every run either ws was locked at some point or ja were locked at some point. With random numbers you have the potential to have the greatest group in the whole damn game with the greatest players who ever existed and lose 100% of the time.

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Originally Posted by Tigrress

I have done NNI about 20 times now

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Originally Posted by Tigrress

I have never recieved more then 5 floor skip

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This is impossible.

The floors jump amount seems very skewed, its definitely not an even distribution. What I've been noticing is that the floors under 50 tend to give you 2~4 floor jumps the vast majority of the time, it's only after 51 where the jumps seem to be bigger.

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Originally Posted by Caketime

What confuses me is SE's insistence on grindfest themed gameplay. We've been here for 9 years more or less, having fun despite the grind. Is it impossible to hope for content that focuses on fun instead of gear hunting to get better gear, tags, and restrictions?

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The fact is, if an event have no grind, and no "hunting to get better gear", then nobody will do it and it's fact. That's why you rarely see ppl do pvp(they still do, just SO RARE compare with other content) Garrison, eco warrior etc. It's not that SE "insist" to make content giving out better gear, just that majority of player would rather not spend time on it if it has no reward.

If they want to make ppl do a content for fun, but don't want to offer reward/better gear, the only possible way I can think of is to add competitive element, such as leaderboard, achievement point, PvP element and so on. But it seems that FFXI isn't leaderboard/achievement point/PvP centered MMO.

"Grinding" aka "Treasure Hunting" is common in my MMO's. In SE's cause is that they've yet to grasp what is enjoyable and what isn't. Everything running up to a spot then fighting the same boss NM twelve times and getting jack sh1t isn't fun. Even if the NM were to dispense goodies like a peeze it still wouldn't be fun. Now if they made a one to two hour dungeon where you cleared multiple levels while progressing through increasingly stronger boss NMs, then that is fun. Provided the boss NM's don't go all Kefka on you an "OMGWTFBBQ DIEDIEDIE!!!!", then it's just cheap on the developers part.

Also then NEED to stop putting all the goodies at the very end, it should be graduated progression with goodies dropped with each stage. Not a sh!t ton of crap then a few decent drops from the very end boss.

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Originally Posted by Afania

The fact is, if an event have no grind, and no "hunting to get better gear", then nobody will do it and it's fact. That's why you rarely see ppl do pvp(they still do, just SO RARE compare with other content) Garrison, eco warrior etc. It's not that SE "insist" to make content giving out better gear, just that majority of player would rather not spend time on it if it has no reward.

If they want to make ppl do a content for fun, but don't want to offer reward/better gear, the only possible way I can think of is to add competitive element, such as leaderboard, achievement point, PvP element and so on. But it seems that FFXI isn't leaderboard/achievement point/PvP centered MMO.

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Can't help but notice the events you listed are incredibly boring. I realize there's a formula at work here, where we do events for gear and shinies, but we only do those events for the shinies and not because the event is fun.

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Originally Posted by Caketime

Can't help but notice the events you listed are incredibly boring. I realize there's a formula at work here, where we do events for gear and shinies, but we only do those events for the shinies and not because the event is fun.

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Off Topic: I'm of the opinion that they should offer non stat related customization as a reward more often. They should add things like warp points that can only be gotten by beating certain tiers of content a certain number of times, or enhancements that turn that butt ugly gear into "super fly, I'm the bestest of the bestest and you can tell just by looking at my gear" type gear. Instead of having events where you have a 1/10 chance of getting an item that's worth 1,000,000 gil, they could just make the event drop 100k every time (These numbers are of course just an example, as every event would be different).

There should be bonuses for helping people out with events too. Ie. If you beat an event with a bunch of people who have done it a million times before then you get regular rewards, but if you beat it with a bunch of people who haven't cleared it before, then you get bonus drops / points / whatever.

All I'm saying is that if they just got a little creative, they could make things a lot better. I'm mean, they were sort of onto something with evoliths, but the gear sucked and it was too random. If they added that sort of customization to currently existing gear and made it so that you could do it by trading points from different events to an NPC for different pieces, it would probably be popular.

TLDR; They should make more rewards that aren't stat related, but are worth chasing regardless. That way they can spend less time trying to make events that are hard enough to be fun for "mr. I have every relic / empy on the planet and my whole LS does too", but easy enough that "joey the pink ninja" can beat it once in a while too.

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Originally Posted by detlef

This is impossible.

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Shame its what has happened.

So you're saying you have done Nyzul 20 times and never received a jump over 5 floors? That really is statistically impossible. What's the point of even making this claim?

Its not statistically impossible, I mean realistically I could roll a die 1,000,000 times and it come up 1 each and every time, its just very, very, very unlikely. This is much the same, unless the game forces you to get a higher jump if you get alot of shitty jumps, which it doesn't.

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Originally Posted by detlef

So you're saying you have done Nyzul 20 times and never received a jump over 5 floors? That really is statistically impossible. What's the point of even making this claim?

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He probably only cleared 2-3 floors each run, lol. That's the only way it's possible.

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Originally Posted by Caketime

Can't help but notice the events you listed are incredibly boring. I realize there's a formula at work here, where we do events for gear and shinies, but we only do those events for the shinies and not because the event is fun.

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If everything is boring to you, including PvP, then I really can't think of much else that you find fun, prehaps you can try another game. Although personally I haven't play a single MMO that doesn't get incredibly boring after you spend 200+ hours into the game. I quit WoW/warhammer/FFXIV after a few days of playing, only SWTOR still struggling because of the story(but planning to quit after I finish story), cuz most of them just using same game mechanic over and over.

Yes we do event for shinies, that's just the way it goes in MMO, that after 1st time you do something, 2nd time it got incredibly boring. If it doesn't offer reward, no matter how fun it is nobody will be interested in doing it for 2nd time. And the main goal of MMO is to keep players playing.

The only way is probably a well made, balanced PvP system, so those players stick around and improve their skill to get better result. Like how players play Starcraft, or Street fighter4 over and over, to practice and get better at it.

Other then that, there aren't many game mechanic that's "incredibly fun". Most likely it'd just be kill this, kill that. Dodge attack, guard boss attack, dodge trap, select right skill rotation, kill epic boss and so on, like every other MMO out there.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Off Topic: I'm of the opinion that they should offer non stat related customization as a reward more often. They should add things like warp points that can only be gotten by beating certain tiers of content a certain number of times, or enhancements that turn that butt ugly gear into "super fly, I'm the bestest of the bestest and you can tell just by looking at my gear" type gear. Instead of having events where you have a 1/10 chance of getting an item that's worth 1,000,000 gil, they could just make the event drop 100k every time (These numbers are of course just an example, as every event would be different).

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No, it won't work for the person you replied :p His problem is that no matter what he does, he found it incredibly boring, and he'd rather do something with no reward but something fun. Personally besides PvP, or some sort of archievement system, I couldn't think of any game mechanic that can keep players play for years and always find it entertaining, without offering shinies/reward.

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Originally Posted by Afania

If everything is boring to you, including PvP, then I really can't think of much else that you find fun, prehaps you can try another game. Although personally I haven't play a single MMO that doesn't get incredibly boring after you spend 200+ hours into the game. I quit WoW/warhammer/FFXIV after a few days of playing, only SWTOR still struggling because of the story(but planning to quit after I finish story), cuz most of them just using same game mechanic over and over.

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Incorrect. I enjoy Campaigns, Besieged and the occasional Brenner match. Limbus is mildly entertaining, occasionally awesome if we pick the harder version, and I have fun being a jerk in Dyna here and there. Einherjar is another rather fun event that I enjoy with my LS though I haven't been going much lately. I like "Kill all of the things!" events as well as pieces of content that I can either solo or duo to pass time and earn merits or whatever I happen to be busying myself with at the time. Assault is pretty fun too when I can get more than one other person willing to go.

Frank brings up an interesting idea, I would also like to see some form of non-stat related customization. Mostly because I want to annoy the crap out of everyone around me by coloring all of my armor bright pink.

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Originally Posted by Caketime

Incorrect. I enjoy Campaigns, Besieged and the occasional Brenner match. Limbus is mildly entertaining, occasionally awesome if we pick the harder version, and I have fun being a jerk in Dyna here and there. Einherjar is another rather fun event that I enjoy with my LS though I haven't been going much lately. I like "Kill all of the things!" events as well as pieces of content that I can either solo or duo to pass time and earn merits or whatever I happen to be busying myself with at the time. Assault is pretty fun too when I can get more than one other person willing to go.

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1. Campaign isn't much more fun than every other event. You just kill mobs without much strategy too.
2. Besieged is lag feast
3. Brenner is PvP which I mentioned.
4. Ein/limbus is do it for shinies event.

Honestly your comment confused me, first you complained events are boring and ppl only do for shines, then you listed a bunch of events you had fun and ppl did for shines too. So what exactly do you want? An event that's fun but doesn't offer shines? What exactly do you want that you think it's fun? If you like kill all, pretty much everything in XI is kill all.

There really isn't anything wrong with event offering shines. It provides incentive to do more than once and keep players around. I don't see a point to take the reward away from event, it will just make the event utterly pointless to do and that's it. However, having shines doesn't stop the players from doing it for fun.

Its good to offer items, its good to offer fun, its great to have both in one. The problem is most of the time they don't go together. VW, good gear, no fun because its more annoying and aggravating than anything. PvP is fun, but no rewards for doing it.

Personally, when the group did as they were expected (us meds, split on kill all floors etc) the event was fun regardless of if we ultimately won, or didn't win in my experience. It was when the lack of using meds, or people not following directions that made it seem aggravating cause the event was so time sensitive on top of luck dependent. Sadly a big portion of getting through things fast was tied to Embrava up to this point. I hope that with the change to the spell and what little they are actually adjusting ontop of that for NNI, they will notice the difficulty and adjust it a bit more.

Without the changes to Embrava, I'm fairly certain that the original make up of people I did this with would probably had greater than 50% success rate on hitting fl100 especially when considering lamp floors had more down time than needed just waiting for them to reset in some cases. With the Embrava changes, I would rather see them limit the number of times you can land on a lamp floor each run to 4 times.

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Originally Posted by Afania

1. Campaign isn't much more fun than every other event. You just kill mobs without much strategy too.
2. Besieged is lag feast
3. Brenner is PvP which I mentioned.
4. Ein/limbus is do it for shinies event.

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I have my opinion about the events currently available, and you have yours. Can't we just leave it at that?

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Honestly your comment confused me, first you complained events are boring and ppl only do for shines, then you listed a bunch of events you had fun and ppl did for shines too. So what exactly do you want? An event that's fun but doesn't offer shines? What exactly do you want that you think it's fun? If you like kill all, pretty much everything in XI is kill all.

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I want the game to be fun again. I can make my own fun with LS buddies while we do events, but most events aren't tailored to being fun, they have a list of objectives and how we choose to accomplish those objectives may or may not produce a fun experience. For example, when fighting anything other than Odin in Einherjar we just run straight at it and hack and slash our way to victory. But if our DDs do it while wearing "the outfit" we have a bit more fun, and there are unshaven Elvaan and Galka legs exposed everywhere. I feel sorry for our Taru friends at these events.

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There really isn't anything wrong with event offering shines. It provides incentive to do more than once and keep players around. I don't see a point to take the reward away from event, it will just make the event utterly pointless to do and that's it. However, having shines doesn't stop the players from doing it for fun.

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I never said there was anything wrong with rewards for events, I just commented on the fact that most of these events are just a means to an end, and are designed for maximum grinding rather than being entertaining. The only fun happens when we make it happen. But I don't think it has to be that way.

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Originally Posted by Afania

So what exactly do you want? An event that's fun but doesn't offer shines? What exactly do you want that you think it's fun? If you like kill all, pretty much everything in XI is kill all.

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Any event in a MMORPG that doesn't offer both fun and advancement at the same time, is a failure. Yes, I understand the implications of what I'm saying. There's a lot of failure in this game and many others.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Random thoughts I want to reply to since I last looked at this thread like 3 days ago:

Playing a melee job is not all that hard. You engage things, you use abilities once in awhile, and you WS when you have 100 TP. Simple as that.

The skill part of these jobs comes in knowing what gear to get and use for what enemies, WSing right before or right when you get 100 TP, knowing when it is most effective to use your abilities, learning how to acquire the gear you need, actually acquiring it, etc. For Nyzul specifically, macroing on/off run fast shoes to do your best to remove engage/disengage position lock is a pretty skill based thing to do, knowing when the flan NM suddenly gets healed when you hit it with your stick so you don't suddenly fill it back up to 100%, having good memory so you know which ways you have run already, which ways other players have run already, where other players are when they say things like "I found it," and knowing to not follow the other person when there are two ways you could go.

SAM is good in Neo Nyzul? Since when?
WAR MNK and BLU are the best melees for Neo Nyzul, and I will explain why.

WAR because it has a huge single target WS (Ukkos Fury), a big damage AOE WS (Fell Cleave) and Tomahawk for annoying mobs that take reduced damage, like some of the flan NMs, slimes, skeletons, etc, that you constantly fight all the time. It also has cheap/easy to acquire run fast shoes (Hermes Sandels) from the AH.

BLU for the same reasons as WAR, big damage single target WS/spells, AOE spells, decently easy to acquire run speed (Crimson pants, but these are harder than Hermes) plus it gets stuns, and can do magic damage to stuff to avoid slashing damage penalties or take advantage of stuff that takes extra magic damage or no physical damage.

MNK is worse off than the previous two, but it can use Formless Strikes to fight the flan NM when it goes into "physical damage heals me mode," or to beat on things like slimes. It also has Hermes Sandels. And its not like the stuff in Neo Nyzul is hard at all, so it doesn't take much of a hit from being a 1 handed weapon job.

SAM DRK DRG do not have this one advantage MNK has over them, so they are all inferior compared to it. And 1 handed melees are generally just bad compared to 2 handed in any event where you basically sit at capped haste all the time, since their Dual Wild suffers tremendously, their WS's are all inferior damage comparatively and their overall DoT is just much lower, and thats the only thing the remaining jobs have going for them.

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Sorry for the mega delay, but do you know drk have twilight scythe and with apoc can almost solo a complete floor of NMs?

hmmm well if you were to have to chose from a war with all tricks and gear vrs a drk nni would heavily favor the drk i mean tomahawk is nice but its only a 25-30% Sdt drop, and most of the in jobs for nni have better ways to get around pdt blus of course are going to req it(nasty attack penalty but alittle def down makes it barely noticeable) mnks formless (tho they take a 40% to 5% dmg penalty for it) as dutz said drk has twilight which ignores -Sdt and i think -dt as well. A drk with relic scythe has alot more serviablity than a war, thax to an hp draining weponskill, and tho ukon is a beast of a weapons skill Gs merit weapon-skill can go toe to toe with it, and drk using there tricks can make it come out on top.

this part is just my opinion, but after embrava loses its balls blu mnk drk nin(maybe) and dnc will be the go to jobs for dd slots in nni(tho this is assuming emp harp brd take over at least 1 of the schs slots)

agreed with everything up until you mentioned nin as a top dd slot