FINAL FANTASY XI® Seekers of Adoulin

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

No, I don't think you understand what piracy is. Making a copy of something, like a movie or a game or OS, then giving that copy away is piracy, therefor illegal. Money doesn't have to change hands for it to be piracy, though it does change how much money in reparations the suing party can get if it ever goes to court. Nor does prior ownership of either individual involved as then it comes down to proving that you own the copied material, and in the case of games with codes and OSes only one person will be able to make that claim. I'll not be a party to such behavior.

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Companies dictate that as Piracy simply to try to trick you into purchasing another copy, the law however does NOT.

If you own a copy of software, movies etc you can legally view/use them in whatever means you wish to so long as you do not sell them or supply them to people who did not previously, legally purchase them.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

Companies dictate that as Piracy simply to try to trick you into purchasing another copy, the law however does NOT.

If you own a copy of software, movies etc you can legally view/use them in whatever means you wish to so long as you do not sell them or supply them to people who did not previously, legally purchase them.

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It's not as clear cut, it is definitely a legal grey area. Technically you are buying the license, so some argue that you are only allowed to use the product as intended. On the other hand you have physically bought a thing, so another strong argument is as that thing is yours, you can do with it what you will.

However, if you give that thing away, then using a digital version is completely illegal. As is downloading a digital version from illegal sources, of a game you bought physically.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

... so long as you do not sell them or supply them to people who did not previously, legally purchase them.

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And that is the point right there. Thank you for making it yourself so I didn't have to. Just because I own a copy of a version (in this case the PS2) of FFXI doesn't mean I own a copy of all versions of FFXI.

You don't buy software itself, you buy licenses. Your license is attached to your POL ID, not the physical copy of the disk.

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Originally Posted by Jackstin

However, if you give that thing away, then using a digital version is completely illegal. As is downloading a digital version from illegal sources, of a game you bought physically.

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What are "illegal sources" in this case? The FFXI black market? I admit I'm not fully up to date on US law, but here as well as in other countries I know of it's perfectly legal to possess a digital copy of something you physically own (such as backing up a DVD to your hard drive, or rip songs from your music CD to your MP3 player). And that still doesn't compare to what's going on here, because as people said, you're not buying games, you're buying licenses. Registration codes with which to access the game, not obtain the game, as is normally the case when buying offline games. You can't just obtain a copy of the game from a random source and play it, not if you don't have your own license. And for that you need to purchase the game once for yourself, through any means you want (PS2 discs, PC discs, Steam download, whatever).

It makes perfect sense from a logical view. Think about it, what are game companies trying to sell? Games? No, they want people to pay for playing a game. And selling the games is usually the best way to achieve that. However, this doesn't apply here, because even if people have it they can't just play it. That's because SE aren't selling games, they're selling licenses to the one game that they are running, on their servers.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

And that is the point right there. Thank you for making it yourself so I didn't have to. Just because I own a copy of a version (in this case the PS2) of FFXI doesn't mean I own a copy of all versions of FFXI.

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Sure, skip over all the post lecturing you and reply only to those against which you can come up with something. And no one is saying you own a copy of all versions, but you own access to all versions, because there only is one version of FFXI, namely the one that runs on SE's servers. When you install FFXI, you're not installing the game at all. You're using a client-side interpreter to access the game that the server feeds you. It's like a web browser. Just because you have a browser, doesn't mean you can access the web. For that you need an internet connection. Browsers are free, internet isn't (unless you're leeching off someone, and I'm sure you can find a FFXI analogue to that situation as well).

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Originally Posted by Jackstin

It's not as clear cut, it is definitely a legal grey area. Technically you are buying the license, so some argue that you are only allowed to use the product as intended. On the other hand you have physically bought a thing, so another strong argument is as that thing is yours, you can do with it what you will.

However, if you give that thing away, then using a digital version is completely illegal. As is downloading a digital version from illegal sources, of a game you bought physically.

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The only thing you are technically "buying" is the license. By this, you can use your disc to download the contents (ie. the expansions) on as many computers as you want; however, the license is registered to a single content ID. Once that registration is completed, as far as SE (and the law is concerned), the license is a redeemable item, and by registering it with a content ID you have effectively "redeemed" and forfeited ownership of that item. In essence crossing the territory between physical and digital property.

The content of the discs can be shared indefinitely, however the registration code cannot. At least, not without breaking the law.

The thing people are missing is that EULA talks about what your rights are in using the software on the disks, not the disks themselves. The disks are only intended to deliver that software then, well, sit on your shelf collecting dust until you need to reinstall or sit in your disk drive as an archaic form of DRM. It's governed by different rules that most corporations expect people to know without having to be told. Your freedoms with the disks are extremely limited in regards to sharing, they're intended for one owner and only one owner. Why do you think game companies hate Gamestop? There is a grey area in regards to backing up disks in case of damage but it's possible that laws have changed that makes that illegal, too.

A fine example of this lack of freedom is EA's Project Ten Dollar. If someone gives you their old copy of an EA game, say Battlefield II, you can't just install it an expect to be able to play online without hassle. They will require you to 'buy' the game from them (for $10) just to be able to play online. Only then do you actually own that install of them game, but those game disks still belong to the person that gave you the disks. At least they do in EA's eyes, and that's the crux of the matter. And hope you don't have to reinstall, cause I doubt that code EA gave you will work more than once.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

The thing people are missing is that EULA talks about what your rights are in using the software on the disks, not the disks themselves. The disks are only intended to deliver that software then, well, sit on your shelf collecting dust until you need to reinstall or sit in your disk drive as an archaic form of DRM. It's governed by different rules that most corporations expect people to know without having to be told. Your freedoms with the disks are extremely limited in regards to sharing, they're intended for one owner and only one owner. Why do you think game companies hate Gamestop? There is a grey area in regards to backing up disks in case of damage but it's possible that laws have changed that makes that illegal, too.

A fine example of this lack of freedom is EA's Project Ten Dollar. If someone gives you their old copy of an EA game, say Battlefield II, you can't just install it an expect to be able to play online without hassle. They will require you to 'buy' the game from them (for $10) just to be able to play online. Only then do you actually own that install of them game, but those game disks still belong to the person that gave you the disks. At least they do in EA's eyes, and that's the crux of the matter. And hope you don't have to reinstall, cause I doubt that code EA gave you will work more than once.

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You're really going to use EA as an example, it's one of the worst companies around when it comes to little care for it's customers.

EA is the easiest example that everyone can relate to... so yeah.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

The thing people are missing is that EULA talks about what your rights are in using the software on the disks, not the disks themselves. The disks are only intended to deliver that software then, well, sit on your shelf collecting dust until you need to reinstall or sit in your disk drive as an archaic form of DRM. It's governed by different rules that most corporations expect people to know without having to be told. Your freedoms with the disks are extremely limited in regards to sharing, they're intended for one owner and only one owner. Why do you think game companies hate Gamestop? There is a grey area in regards to backing up disks in case of damage but it's possible that laws have changed that makes that illegal, too.

A fine example of this lack of freedom is EA's Project Ten Dollar. If someone gives you their old copy of an EA game, say Battlefield II, you can't just install it an expect to be able to play online without hassle. They will require you to 'buy' the game from them (for $10) just to be able to play online. Only then do you actually own that install of them game, but those game disks still belong to the person that gave you the disks. At least they do in EA's eyes, and that's the crux of the matter. And hope you don't have to reinstall, cause I doubt that code EA gave you will work more than once.

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The example that you give of EA is exactly why I think they got the worst company in America award, or at least part of the reason. What your saying makes some sense, but I'm going to tell you this now, its stupid. I myself do not like stupid rules, or people.

If I buy a game, I spent my money on it. If I go to my friends house, I should be able to play it on their console, if I play on PC & Xbox but spent money on the PC version of FFXI, I should be able to play it on my Xbox all the same, not buy 2 of them. If I buy a disk with half of the games true content on it, I should be able to share it with my friends using my disk, I paid for it, its my item, and so I should be able to do what I see fit with it within certain bounds.

If this is truly the way the law is, I am sorry to tell you, but I am sure many, many people break this if they buy these kinds of things, and can let their friends use them as well. I myself have done something similar, I split costs of these types of things with friends, so that when we get the full content for us both, we pay half the price.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

EA is the easiest example that everyone can relate to... so yeah.

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EA is a company that breaks the law repeatedly and one of the first ones to go "We hate people that sell games after they played them, which legally they're allowed to do so lets include a code in any of our games that go online so we can make more money, but supply subpar games that are usually the exact same except a slight difference in our storylines"

FFXI is the same software, so you can legally use that software on any format. Just as you can use a PSX game in an emulator on a PC if you want to, you just need to own a version of the software.

The only time this is different is if they released a game that was once out on the PSX and remade it, such as Resident Evil (which they did PSX>GameCube.) Then you need to buy the game on the Gamecube before you can use other means to play it.

I think you're still missing the point here. The ONLY aspect of FFXI that's cross-platform are the accounts we play on and the network they operate from. The PS2 is not the PC is not the 360. Each is it's own version, with it's own disks and it's own registration codes. I can no more say I own the PC version than you can the PS2 version UNLESS we just happen to also own the disks to said versions. It's that bloody simple.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

I think you're still missing the point here. The ONLY aspect of FFXI that's cross-platform are the accounts we play on and the network they operate from. The PS2 is not the PC is not the 360. Each is it's own version, with it's own disks and it's own registration codes. I can no more say I own the PC version than you can the PS2 version UNLESS we just happen to also own the disks to said versions. It's that bloody simple.

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The PC and XBOX versions are both ported from the PS2, so they are.

There is no UNIQUE registration code, if you can't see that then you're one of the people EA as a company thrives on.

If there is no code, then how did you register the expansions to prove you own them? I mean, unless I imagined inputting each and every one into POL...

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

If there is no code, then how did you register the expansions to prove you own them? I mean, unless I imagined inputting each and every one into POL...

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You put in UNIVERSAL codes, that is codes that work on ANY version of the installation software, NOT system specific ones.

Do what you want, but just be aware that the software is NOT unique to the systems, they all use the same data, the same files, and the same POL viewer. Just optimised for that system. (that is to say, crap on consoles)

Hey guys

If you registered SoA on your PC, then went to your PS2 and performed a "file check", wouldn't the file check find that lots of files were "missing", and attempt to download what's missing?

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Hey guys

If you registered SoA on your PC, then went to your PS2 and performed a "file check", wouldn't the file check find that lots of files were "missing", and attempt to download what's missing?

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Nope, it'd just disable the EP while on that platform.

Hmmm.

Methinks discussing about piracy is quite redundant when the User Agreement prohibits even merely borrowing the install media. ^^;

• KB Article: 12688

Then again, it prohibits 'dat-mining' and all sorts of other stuff that don't really seem to be acted upon at all...

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Originally Posted by Dragoy

Hmmm.

Methinks discussing about piracy is quite redundant when the User Agreement prohibits even merely borrowing the install media. ^^;

• KB Article: 12688

Then again, it prohibits 'dat-mining' and all sorts of other stuff that don't really seem to be acted upon at all...

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It prohibited recording in any form also, they changed that recently when they wanted users to record something.

The point isn't what SquareEnix says is legal and illegal, it's what actually is.

SquareEnix is a company, as a company it'll do anything and everything to get you to line their pockets more.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

EA is the easiest example that everyone can relate to... so yeah.

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it's not a legal thing with EA, they're just selling the online multiplayer as a separate content.

yeah, that's what much of the videogame industry now (see FF XIII-2)

To all of those who say "switch to PC" it's really getting annoying. I started out on PS2 and then got a 2nd account for my PC. So "switching over" isn't really an option unless I delete an account which aint happening. It's funny how all you say how terrible the graphics are. I have zero problems with mine. Crystal clear and looks pretty good. I'm actually very disappointed in SE for this move. They could sell it themselves if they truly wanted to. But to completely shut out a good many players...well lets just say I probably won't becoming back.

I think of it as an amputation. Doctor tells us they are cutting off our legs, we don't like the idea, we are against it even, but they say it must be done, and we already gave them permission to do whatever needed done to save our lives. Life will still go on, and we might even be happy with it in time, but for now it seems terrible and we dread the thought of it. We have had our legs all our life, we have grown used to them, and don't want to lose them, but it has to happen for our own good, and so we must accept it.

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Originally Posted by LCofPandy

To all of those who say "switch to PC" it's really getting annoying. I started out on PS2 and then got a 2nd account for my PC. So "switching over" isn't really an option unless I delete an account which aint happening. It's funny how all you say how terrible the graphics are. I have zero problems with mine. Crystal clear and looks pretty good. I'm actually very disappointed in SE for this move. They could sell it themselves if they truly wanted to. But to completely shut out a good many players...well lets just say I probably won't becoming back.

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You still playing it on the big huge old boxes of a TV because that's the only time PS2 graphics look good.

PS. Bravo on NOT knowing how consoles work. You can't just make, sell and market a game for a console you did NOT make.

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Originally Posted by LCofPandy

To all of those who say "switch to PC" it's really getting annoying. I started out on PS2 and then got a 2nd account for my PC. So "switching over" isn't really an option unless I delete an account which aint happening. It's funny how all you say how terrible the graphics are. I have zero problems with mine. Crystal clear and looks pretty good. I'm actually very disappointed in SE for this move. They could sell it themselves if they truly wanted to. But to completely shut out a good many players...well lets just say I probably won't becoming back.

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What would require you to delete an account?

Do you play both at the same time?

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Originally Posted by Mirage

What would require you to delete an account?

Do you play both at the same time?

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Better question is why delete one at all? Use 1 character when you want to, play the other when they are needed, if you cant dualbox you can still play both characters, or alternate between them when you are bored playing as 1 of the 2.

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Originally Posted by LCofPandy

I started out on PS2 and then got a 2nd account for my PC. So "switching over" isn't really an option unless I delete an account which aint happening.

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You should be able to use the “PS2-account” just fine on a PC as well, if that's what you are referring to?

And no, you don't need 'cheats' to use both at the same time on one computer. You can set up multiple windoze environments by using Linux, or VirtualMachine(s), so you don't necessarily need another computer, or use 'h4x' to manipulate the client and violate the User Agreement either.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

You still playing it on the big huge old boxes of a TV because that's the only time PS2 graphics look good.

PS. Bravo on NOT knowing how consoles work. You can't just make, sell and market a game for a console you did NOT make.

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Actually, From Software self-published their recent title Armored Core V in Japan. Been self-publishing for a while now and they're nowhere near as big or influential as Square. There's really nothing stopping Square from doing the same.

And what do you have against CRT-style televisions? Sure, they make terrible computer monitors (I know, I used to use one as such, made games look awesome but text not so much) but is that any reason to hate them? As for his talk of deleting accounts, he clearly dual-boxes and if he can't play both characters at once then that's an obviously wasted $13+ a month. Even you have to agree that that'd be a waste of money.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Actually, From Software self-published their recent title Armored Core V in Japan. Been self-publishing for a while now and they're nowhere near as big or influential as Square. There's really nothing stopping Square from doing the same.

And what do you have against CRT-style televisions? Sure, they make terrible computer monitors (I know, I used to use one as such, made games look awesome but text not so much) but is that any reason to hate them? As for his talk of deleting accounts, he clearly dual-boxes and if he can't play both characters at once then that's an obviously wasted $13+ a month. Even you have to agree that that'd be a waste of money.

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Japan is the better country for PS2 full-stop, different rules too.

I do agree with it, but that is SE's fault, with how good Graphics Cards are now, and how low the GPU FFXI takes up is, SE should allow multiple instances of FFXI.

They said they were allowing multiple instances of something, I can only hope this is it. Besides most people have an XBOX 360 now.

I understand the annoyance, but it is what it is.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Actually, From Software self-published their recent title Armored Core V in Japan. Been self-publishing for a while now and they're nowhere near as big or influential as Square. There's really nothing stopping Square from doing the same.

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Self-publishing console games in Japan is a whole other animal compared to most countries, although I have no idea if this is due to differences in law or simply large differences in how the markets operate.

I do know it is a whole other animal. An animal that often reproduces via its own younger sister after selecting the correct text options. Never the older sister, though! It is a very persnickety animal.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

And what do you have against CRT-style televisions? Sure, they make terrible computer monitors (I know, I used to use one as such, made games look awesome but text not so much) but is that any reason to hate them? As for his talk of deleting accounts, he clearly dual-boxes and if he can't play both characters at once then that's an obviously wasted $13+ a month. Even you have to agree that that'd be a waste of money.

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CRT TVs rule for Picture Quality, especially the HD ones. The only thing that comes close to it is an LED TV. (You don't need to be in "Optimal view zone" for an LED TV, unlike an LCD.

-The Huge Negatives of a CRT TV is their Bulk and weight. For example my 22" LCD monitor i use weighs in at about 10 pounds (4.5kg) at the most. an equivalent CRT monitor would weigh in at about 50-75 lbs (22.7kg - 34kg) and you'd need 2 people to carry it due to the size of its picture tube.

(I use to work for a CRT manufacturer )

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Originally Posted by Teraniku

-The Huge Negatives of a CRT TV is their Bulk and weight.

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What about the eye-strain inducing flicker? =¯=

Of course experiences vary from user to user.

You must have really sensitive eyes to notice the refresh rate of a CRT-style TV. Usually, to see that you have to view a TV through a video camera... unless you have video cameras for eyes!

I cant wail till when hexbox is on SE's chopping block.

I'm not saying I can see it like it can be seen through a camera, but that does not mean that it isn't affecting our eyes!

Though actually, I haven't been watching the TV for months (still have a tubey TV yeah!), and only been staring the LCD instead. Just some days ago, as I looked at such a TV, the picture did seem quite annoying, flickering, and another person who has been watching it, instead of only LCD, did not really notice anything.

I'd first imagine it's just my eyes going, but after I mentioned it to a friend who also has been more or less only looking at LCDs, he'd have the same sort of experiences so we'd conclude it's a bit of a matter of getting used to them.

That's of course an uneducated conclusion, but I can say for sure, that once I switched from a CRT monitor to LCD, my eye-strain levels definitely decreased.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

No, I don't think you understand what piracy is. Making a copy of something, like a movie or a game or OS, then giving that copy away is piracy, therefor illegal. Money doesn't have to change hands for it to be piracy, though it does change how much money in reparations the suing party can get if it ever goes to court. Nor does prior ownership of either individual involved as then it comes down to proving that you own the copied material, and in the case of games with codes and OSes only one person will be able to make that claim. I'll not be a party to such behavior.

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Install doesn't ask you for registration codes. Logging in to an existing account doesn't ask for registration codes. Registration codes to make accounts aren't even platform-specific, just region-specific. If the game is installed and you have an account (which would mean you are paying SE for the game), you can log in, regardless of how it was installed. I know of nobody that has been confronted about this, and SE could easily make the game require a means of proof of ownership of the installation media for each platform. PS2 only requires it because of the mandatory region designation on discs which can't be copied, and Xbox 360 requires the disc to launch the game because of MS rules.

Most PC software can install from borrowed media, but some sort of registration code verification makes it useless unless you bought a unique code. FFXI is not such software. It acts like a web browser, it grants you access to servers you have an account with. As such I don't see it as unethical or immoral to install the client with whatever resources I have, when I'm being billed for access to the game. SE apparently doesn't either, seeing as they aren't prosecuting or banning people for doing so.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Greetings,

I’d like to take a moment to clarify which platform Seekers of Adoulin will be available on for those that have been asking. We will continue to support North American FINAL FANTASY XI players on the PlayStation 2, Xbox 360 and PC (Windows) platforms. However, FINAL FANTASY XI: Seekers of Adoulin will only be available on the Xbox 360 and Windows platforms in North America when it is released in 2013.

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I find the lack of future Sony Game Console support very disquieting. I fully recognize and understand the aging Sony PS2 console line is coming to an end, YET, Square Enix for Final Fantasy XI isn't offering any Sony Game Console support.

My Son and I recently returned to Final Fantasy XI after being away for a year and our recent investments are in Sony Playstation 3 (with PS2 game support). While I started FFXI with two (2) PS2 systems and later expanded to three systems (for my daughter), those are the system of old. Recently, I started replacing those three systems with PS3 systems, which when you include PS2 support is NOT cheap.

PS3 with FFXI support (e.g. PS2) runs around $400 used in good condition to $1,000 brand new (and yes you can still find the 80 GB PS3 with PS2 support for sale brand new and never registered). It does blow the Sony support mind when you call up to register a "old" PS3 system as brand new, but they do it.

I find it very sad that SE obviously has the PS2 code done, tested, and ready for release but won't give it to non-Japanese. I'm wondering if there is a bias or racial reasoning behind this decision. I don't take this feeling lightly, as I realize from spending time in Japan of the cultural aspect non-Japanese hold and it is NOT a stretch to see where non-Japanese support is simply not considered important or vital.

NOTE: I wouldn't feel this way if the PS2 version didn't exist at all, but it does . . . Also I'm just not understanding why there isn't PS3 support for FFXI, after all PS3 has been out long enough and is still the main gaming console of Sony.

BTW, to those who ask ... well, why not Xbox 360? Before going to the PS3 system, I closely considered the Xbox 360 systems, but choose the PS3 over the 360 for two reasons:

1) Square Enix statement of continued FFXI expansion creation, as long as there were customers. Obviously this is still the case even for PS2!!!!!
2) I saw many YouTube Videos of Xbox 360 having disc eating situations, as well as the unit turning itself into a brick for what sounded like no reasonable reason.

I guess there is a third reason: My Son and Daughter have many PS2 video games, while I don't they do and I didn't want to look at the cost of replacing them (well, some are only on PS2 or PS3 - I think).

At this point, I don't know what to do ... one thought is to go with the Xbox 360, but hey, Square Enix might only support the 360 in South America in 2014 or who knows what ... Once burned one does become shy and by burned I mean .. HONESTLY, I did believe SE when they said they'd continue future expansion support for FFXI, which they're not doing completely / 100%!!!!

Those of us outside Japan are still paying our monthly fees (for me - 3 POL accounts and over 28 characters).

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Originally Posted by IBHalliwellJR

I find the lack of future Sony Game Console support very disquieting. I fully recognize and understand the aging Sony PS2 console line is coming to an end, YET, Square Enix for Final Fantasy XI isn't offering any Sony Game Console support.

My Son and I recently returned to Final Fantasy XI after being away for a year and our recent investments are in Sony Playstation 3 (with PS2 game support). While I started FFXI with two (2) PS2 systems and later expanded to three systems (for my daughter), those are the system of old. Recently, I started replacing those three systems with PS3 systems, which when you include PS2 support is NOT cheap.

PS3 with FFXI support (e.g. PS2) runs around $400 used in good condition to $1,000 brand new (and yes you can still find the 80 GB PS3 with PS2 support for sale brand new and never registered). It does blow the Sony support mind when you call up to register a "old" PS3 system as brand new, but they do it.

I find it very sad that SE obviously has the PS2 code done, tested, and ready for release but won't give it to non-Japanese. I'm wondering if there is a bias or racial reasoning behind this decision. I don't take this feeling lightly, as I realize from spending time in Japan of the cultural aspect non-Japanese hold and it is NOT a stretch to see where non-Japanese support is simply not considered important or vital.

NOTE: I wouldn't feel this way if the PS2 version didn't exist at all, but it does . . . Also I'm just not understanding why there isn't PS3 support for FFXI, after all PS3 has been out long enough and is still the main gaming console of Sony.

BTW, to those who ask ... well, why not Xbox 360? Before going to the PS3 system, I closely considered the Xbox 360 systems, but choose the PS3 over the 360 for two reasons:

1) Square Enix statement of continued FFXI expansion creation, as long as there were customers. Obviously this is still the case even for PS2!!!!!
2) I saw many YouTube Videos of Xbox 360 having disc eating situations, as well as the unit turning itself into a brick for what sounded like no reasonable reason.

I guess there is a third reason: My Son and Daughter have many PS2 video games, while I don't they do and I didn't want to look at the cost of replacing them (well, some are only on PS2 or PS3 - I think).

At this point, I don't know what to do ... one thought is to go with the Xbox 360, but hey, Square Enix might only support the 360 in South America in 2014 or who knows what ... Once burned one does become shy and by burned I mean .. HONESTLY, I did believe SE when they said they'd continue future expansion support for FFXI, which they're not doing completely / 100%!!!!

Those of us outside Japan are still paying our monthly fees (for me - 3 POL accounts and over 28 characters).

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Get the PC version. There are a lot of reasons why most MMOs are on the PC. Too many to name them all. Do yourself a favor and make the switch. You won't regret it unless you really want to hate it.

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Originally Posted by IBHalliwellJR

I find the lack of future Sony Game Console support very disquieting. I fully recognize and understand the aging Sony PS2 console line is coming to an end, YET, Square Enix for Final Fantasy XI isn't offering any Sony Game Console support.

My Son and I recently returned to Final Fantasy XI after being away for a year and our recent investments are in Sony Playstation 3 (with PS2 game support). While I started FFXI with two (2) PS2 systems and later expanded to three systems (for my daughter), those are the system of old. Recently, I started replacing those three systems with PS3 systems, which when you include PS2 support is NOT cheap.

PS3 with FFXI support (e.g. PS2) runs around $400 used in good condition to $1,000 brand new (and yes you can still find the 80 GB PS3 with PS2 support for sale brand new and never registered). It does blow the Sony support mind when you call up to register a "old" PS3 system as brand new, but they do it.

I find it very sad that SE obviously has the PS2 code done, tested, and ready for release but won't give it to non-Japanese. I'm wondering if there is a bias or racial reasoning behind this decision. I don't take this feeling lightly, as I realize from spending time in Japan of the cultural aspect non-Japanese hold and it is NOT a stretch to see where non-Japanese support is simply not considered important or vital.

NOTE: I wouldn't feel this way if the PS2 version didn't exist at all, but it does . . . Also I'm just not understanding why there isn't PS3 support for FFXI, after all PS3 has been out long enough and is still the main gaming console of Sony.

BTW, to those who ask ... well, why not Xbox 360? Before going to the PS3 system, I closely considered the Xbox 360 systems, but choose the PS3 over the 360 for two reasons:

1) Square Enix statement of continued FFXI expansion creation, as long as there were customers. Obviously this is still the case even for PS2!!!!!
2) I saw many YouTube Videos of Xbox 360 having disc eating situations, as well as the unit turning itself into a brick for what sounded like no reasonable reason.

I guess there is a third reason: My Son and Daughter have many PS2 video games, while I don't they do and I didn't want to look at the cost of replacing them (well, some are only on PS2 or PS3 - I think).

At this point, I don't know what to do ... one thought is to go with the Xbox 360, but hey, Square Enix might only support the 360 in South America in 2014 or who knows what ... Once burned one does become shy and by burned I mean .. HONESTLY, I did believe SE when they said they'd continue future expansion support for FFXI, which they're not doing completely / 100%!!!!

Those of us outside Japan are still paying our monthly fees (for me - 3 POL accounts and over 28 characters).

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MMOs are on PCs for a reason. In this day and age, with decent computers EXTREMELY cheap, there's no reason to not have one or two in the house. Besides, FFXI is so old you can basically run it on a toaster.

PS2 is what limits the game's true potential, and I for one think they should drop support for PS2 entirely.

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Originally Posted by IBHalliwellJR

BTW, to those who ask ... well, why not Xbox 360?

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Nobody is asking this.

Everyone is asking "why would you spend several thousand dollars on THREE PS3s in order to play the inferior PS2 version of a game?" You could have picked up 3 half decent PCs for significantly less money.

I hope we see PS2 support dropped completely at some point. It's only holding the game back.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IBHalliwellJR

I find it very sad that SE obviously has the PS2 code done, tested, and ready for release but won't give it to non-Japanese. I'm wondering if there is a bias or racial reasoning behind this decision. I don't take this feeling lightly, as I realize from spending time in Japan of the cultural aspect non-Japanese hold and it is NOT a stretch to see where non-Japanese support is simply not considered important or vital.

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please break your keyboard and never post in another online forum again if all your going to tout off is stupid Americanized logic like this. People like you are the reason people like me have no faith in the american society anymore. i bet your one of those people who cant miss an episode of american idol or *inster any random other horrible reality tv show here*. please stop being a tool. thank you.