Treasure Hunter Effect Amongst Jobs

Read 7 pages and that was all I could take...I don't see how this will get rid of BST from dynamis as the rest of you all seem to believe...BSTs will still kill fast, and if TH isn't an option...they can at least use a strong, more hard hitting pet to kill even faster now. I was always under the impression that BST only got as high as TH2 with the pets, surpised to find that it's TH3. BST will still be there soloing mobs, and there will forever be a player base hatred.

If you're a BST, you hate groups. If you're in a group, you hate BSTs because they are soloing.

In these situations, both groups are going to try and horde mobs, who's going to win this? The group will win because a BST can't hold hate 100% the time on multiple mobs without it flickering yellow/red. Each party member can hold one effeciently.

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Originally Posted by Camate

To go along with this adjustment, we will be easing up on the materials required to synthesize “Lucky Broth” which created with the basis of the Treasure Hunter effect in mind.

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I would like to point out that it is unfortunate that the Lucky Broth recipe is going to be changed as a side effect. Abaia are one of the only legendary fish that actually have a practical use. As Dipper and Falcor are still going to be the only jugs with any TH at all, why is there a need to change Falcor's jug recipe?

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Originally Posted by detlef

I would like to point out that it is unfortunate that the Lucky Broth recipe is going to be changed as a side effect. Abaia are one of the only legendary fish that actually have a practical use. As Dipper and Falcor are still going to be the only jugs with any TH at all, why is there a need to change Falcor's jug recipe?

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For maximum derp!

The only adjustments TH needed were for clarity and purpose.

Inb4 BST average 2% less coins than they were capable of farming prior to the changes.

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Originally Posted by detlef

I would like to point out that it is unfortunate that the Lucky Broth recipe is going to be changed as a side effect. Abaia are one of the only legendary fish that actually have a practical use. As Dipper and Falcor are still going to be the only jugs with any TH at all, why is there a need to change Falcor's jug recipe?

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Because a legendary fish, that can only be reliably caught with an ebisu and found in one lake in one zone, shouldn't have been introduced as a crafting material at all. You can already make a lot of money fishing up other stuff, even if you only npc all of them.

But don't worry, SE likes kicking bst in the balls. I'm sure that the abaia will stay part of the recipe. And instead of changing the lesser chigoe component of the yuly recipe, they'll drop the shell bug mat from it.

OK, my take on this whole thing. I have both beast and thief at 99, and I usually farm on thief... for Despoil. Because TH has no appreciable effect at any tier above 3, I need the yelds of steal/despoil to allow me to outperform any of my jobs /thf, or using a pet.

When I farm on thief, I'm currently gearred giving me a base TH5, and working on the gear to get to TH7. However, my thief with TH5 is no better than my beast with TH3 (actually TH2, since thief didn't out-perform my 85 bst/dnc in drop rates). This is in no way related the the awesomeness of beast thief jug pets, it's due to the way that Treasure Hunter DOES NOT improve with higher levels. I know SE has stated-time and again-that testing has shown that TH is working; I submit that 3 more drops in 5,000 kills is not an acceptable improvement with 2 extra TH tiers. In fact, my observation is that every time TH "builds" the drop rate in fact goes DOWN.

This solution is misguided. The cure is not to lower the TH of a pet that IS a 90+ thief and has thus earned TH3, it's to fix the effect of additional tiers of the ability. DAMNIT, THERE'S A REASON SO MANY PEOPLE REFER TO IT AS "PLACEBO HUNTER"!!! When I can do just as well, if not better as pup/thf than as thf/dnc farming this should be a clue. Let me put this simply, TH2 should not be equal to TH5+ in yield. Put your efforts into REAL, MEASUREABLE, PRECEIVABLE effects of this highly over-rated Job Ability; I want to see equivalent yields to Gil Hunter in terms of drops, not something that has to be trended over thousands-if not more-kills to be seen.

In all honestly there should be something a bit more worth while about getting a ebisu, than being able to fish up fish to make other people ebisu lols. It seemed like SE finaly did something worth while adding abaia for a synth... . Rememeber other jugs take higher end materials to synth like turtle jug needing dragon meat and so forth. With the amount of people with ebisu now at least on my server there has and prob never would be a shortage of abaia and or lucky broth, it's currently selling for almost always 30% less than ladybugs per stack.

I read through this and I strongly understand that SE hates BST, the GMs do nothing about people sniping staggered monsters at 1% health in dynamis, even if you only have two monsters... You can actually get jailed for greif for yelling at the guy. (Broken system) Big whoop our pets have TH3, the only thing you're doing with saying bring a THF for TH is making the zones even more packed and keeping people going in longer because most people want a cut of the currency, or you can have that one bst come in for an extra week in the end... I have a better idea for fixing the currency issue, find a way to force the value of each currency down to 1k, that way you dont get the people going in for money... Have a vender in the past sell you currency for 4k a pop in past zones using AN... that'd rejuvenate campaign and actually give people a reason to use the expansion now that the only use of those world wide NMs is to get hermes sandals... campaign is miserably slow xp compared to a capped book burn or abyssea, but god for bid you change the balance like that. I'm sure I speak for most of the BST here when I say this, the pet TH+ gear should require some effort to get, but should not be a .000001% drop rate off a monster (LIKE YOUR STUPID VW DROP RATES DURP)

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Originally Posted by detlef

I would like to point out that it is unfortunate that the Lucky Broth recipe is going to be changed as a side effect. Abaia are one of the only legendary fish that actually have a practical use. As Dipper and Falcor are still going to be the only jugs with any TH at all, why is there a need to change Falcor's jug recipe?

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because it took a full stack of Lucky with TH3 to PAY for the god damn fish? TH1 won't cover the cost. THINK people...

So Square Enix wants every Beastmaster to take the worst hair cut possible, and if we do some VW or legion that we cant even proc in, we get a .000001% chance on getting 1 level of the TH they Indian gave us. I dont think I'm gona swallow this msg covered rotten shit. Beastmaster functions like a wheel going down the road And here comes a huge pot hole; the PDF nerf and we hit and it pits a dent in the rim. But were still rolling and another pot hole the road: ruinator nerf, and we are barely still upright and even before we could build up speed all of this happens in under course of a mile. Pet: Treasure hunter nerf.. ? Ta da its broken here comes the pit crew: ES as they put on a Square wheel That they say "This one is BALANCED" at what point do we get out of the car, look down the road, and slam the door? Here is an idea If your gona reinvent the wheel, at least make it round and better than before.

The fact they are pulling TH3 isn't even the part I find most annoying. (Dynamis never needed it anyway, Only really used it in overworld fights for this and that) It's the fact this is just another strike at beast which just keep coming and coming. Players helped create the Loner BST image just like how they made ninjas into blink tanks. Now SE wants BST to "shed" that imagine, by slowly bringing it down to everyone else's level (Master + Pet = power of one job. Basically cutting both's power in half). I also have good reason to believe BSTs will be seeing more nerfs in the near future. I foresee a gimping to both pet foods (the kind of gimp that makes say theta biscuit once per 10 minutes, meaning forced alternation of food types to use at each reward interval) and mulsums or something along those lines.

I don't think this has anything to do with Dyna at all TBH. If anyone bothers to explore the wide world of Vana Diel anymore, you might notice every scroll camping face-smash-named RMT is now a perle set BST with Dippers hoarding everything from SSG to Castle O. BST will still have no problem netting out lots of coins due to the proc system. Its the old, non-proc stuff that this is targeting IMO. This is a ninja RMT nerf more than a BST nerf, even if it does slightly impact actual players.

Im a THF and a BST and I dont see a ton of difference between TH3 >> TH10 but there is quite a difference between TH1 and TH3. So this will nerf those 24/7 RMT campers, hopefully at least.

So once again SE takes on RMT by punishing legit players? I don't see how it can be a big difference to RMT but only slightly impact actual players. Some of us legitimately like to do older stuff where there are no procs or things like soloing Abyssea NMs where we simply aren't able to proc. Now we have to earn back the ability to do that as effectively (maybe) as we do now because SE can't be bothered to do a little police work.

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. This has been Team Tanaka's method for combating RMT all along. Ironic that it's Tanaka's type of content that is what inspires the RMT in the first place.

It's not RMT, has nothing to do with it. I did have an intresting thought however. So, THFs are rejoicing that BST is losing TH3 at the same time recipes to make those pets are being less restrictive to compensate. This brings us to Yuly and Lesser Chigoes which are currently one of the highest profit items on the AH. These chigoes are a low rate in harvesting and are much more regularly farmed via steal method and guess which job is profiting most from those Chigoes? Just a humorous thought.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

I just love how you guys act like whatever Dynamis zone you're in belongs to you, and no one else should be there to get in your way. The sense of entitlement is staggering. I honestly think that's the real issue here. If it wasn't BSTs it'd be another job, other players, parties, or alliances. You guys just want the zone to yourself and anything SE does to hurt others' chances while preserving your own will be A-OK with you. Well, sorry, but Dynamis doesn't work that way anymore. You can team up, compete, or wait for SE to discover the miracle of instancing. Welcome to Neo-Dynamis! Welcome to FFXI! Enjoy your stay!

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How about you bust the chops of the 99 Cor with 90 Arma in FULL PINK soloing dyna. Or other jobs i've seen with emps and relics running around in perle gear or pink gear on jobs other than bst in dyna. That number is astounding on Ragnarok.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

I don't solo Dyna, and my BST is geared quite well and I'm still getting nerfed. I bet you don't have anything resembling an intelligent response for that, do you? Of course not and neither does anyone else from the highest level devs to the smartest of the player base.

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no, you're not nerfed, they said they add "pet: TH+" gear, you just have to work to get em.(and maybe they will be more than one meaning you get an higher TH )

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Originally Posted by Camiie

I just love how you guys act like whatever Dynamis zone you're in belongs to you, and no one else should be there to get in your way. The sense of entitlement is staggering. I honestly think that's the real issue here. If it wasn't BSTs it'd be another job, other players, parties, or alliances. You guys just want the zone to yourself and anything SE does to hurt others' chances while preserving your own will be A-OK with you. Well, sorry, but Dynamis doesn't work that way anymore. You can team up, compete, or wait for SE to discover the miracle of instancing. Welcome to Neo-Dynamis! Welcome to FFXI! Enjoy your stay!

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no, the issue that for >10 of those 15bst the only work they ever done for bst are:
lvl it to 30
farm gil to pay aby leech pos .
buy jug
go dyna

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Originally Posted by hiko

no, you're not nerfed, they said they add "pet: TH+" gear, you just have to work to get em.(and maybe they will be more than one meaning you get an higher TH )

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K, we'll chop some Store TP traits off SAM but add some Store TP gear to VW and Legion. It's not a nerf so it's all good right?

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no, the issue that for >10 of those 15bst the only work they ever done for bst are:
lvl it to 30
farm gil to pay aby leech pos .
buy jug
go dyna

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99.99% of all statistics are made up, including that one. So what if they raced to 99 and are running around in perle/aurore? It's not like a THF or DNC has to be tricked out in cutting edge gear to do Dynamis either. Would you be happier if it was career BSTs in high end, hard to get gear doing the same thing? I doubt it.

If it's so easy for a BST to gimp it up and own Dynamis, which I don't doubt since it's not exactly filled with IT++ mobs... Why aren't all those who see how awesome and easy it is doing it too?

It's like complaining about the rich getting richer when you know their path to success and could easily follow it yourself, but instead you want someone else to cut off their path even if it doesn't benefit you at all just to justify your own choices.

I've been thinking a lot about this, and Indians did enjoy scalping Indian givers... People gravely detest having to work for something they used to have. I'd like to see why producers like alienating their audience like that

Tbh, I get tired of BST's claiming two mobs with them and their pet in Dynamis and coming in stealing camps. This is welcoming news for me. GF bst.

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Originally Posted by Vosslerr

Tbh, I get tired of BST's claiming two mobs with them and their pet in Dynamis and coming in stealing camps. This is welcoming news for me. GF bst.

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I've had camps stolen throughout the years by non-BSTs and I never ever thought that another job or aspect of the game should be nerfed for my benefit. Obviously a nerf affects a lot more than the small number of people bothering you. I guess you're just a lot more selfish than I am. That's what I see in the proponents of this nerf. Selfishness and entitlement.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

99.99% of all statistics are made up, including that one. So what if they raced to 99 and are running around in perle/aurore? It's not like a THF or DNC has to be tricked out in cutting edge gear to do Dynamis either. Would you be happier if it was career BSTs in high end, hard to get gear doing the same thing? I doubt it.

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You'd have to be pretty naive to think that the bst population shot up after the changes to dynamis and the knowledge that with minimal gear and effort you can pull in more currency than any other solo job, and that they arent related.

Yeah, nearly 90% of the BST's in Dynamis are always Perle. You can tell its a burnt job solely for Dynamis. Nothing selfish about it really. All i see them doing is encouraging BST's to work for the best gear, wgich is what most BST's atm need to learn.. Respect to those that have been playing the job for years, I got no problem with that.

Make all mobs in dynamis proc JA/WS/MA all the time rather than how it is now and people
wouldn't need to keep changing camps three times per gameday and could stick to one
mob - could set a seacom with a set camp and everyone could play nice.

Too simple of a solution so I'm sure it cant be done due to the PS2 limitation or some other
standard excuse.

Once again this has nothing to do with dynamis, 0. Any BST worth anything will be right back in there update day with a power pet instead of TH and killing faster to compensate lack of TH. Rejoice if you want, I assure you your competition is going nowhere. (and thanks to this will be around even longer)

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Originally Posted by Nynja

You'd have to be pretty naive to think that the bst population shot up after the changes to dynamis and the knowledge that with minimal gear and effort you can pull in more currency than any other solo job, and that they arent related.

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That's how they want to play. Dynamis is a free for all zone like most every other. You don't like it? Tough. That's not a valid reason for something to be nerfed. You don't like their gear or their play style? Don't play with them.

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Originally Posted by Vosslerr

Yeah, nearly 90% of the BST's in Dynamis are always Perle. You can tell its a burnt job solely for Dynamis. Nothing selfish about it really. All i see them doing is encouraging BST's to work for the best gear, wgich is what most BST's atm need to learn.. Respect to those that have been playing the job for years, I got no problem with that.

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I have been playing the job for years and no one owes me a damn thing. I don't deserve anyone's respect for playing a video game and neither does anyone else. Respect for being a person? Yeah. For playing FFXI? lol.. No.

As for earning back something through gear that we already had? I think you only find that acceptable because it's not you having to do it.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

That's how they want to play. Dynamis is a free for all zone like most every other. You don't like it? Tough. That's not a valid reason for something to be nerfed. You don't like their gear or their play style? Don't play with them.

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way to ignore something thats as close to as fact as can be without being able to actually being able to confirm it as fact. Dynamis gets an overhaul, widespread reports are coming out that with minimal effort and AH-tier gear a bst can walk out with more currency than any other solo job, all of a sudden the number of bst's rise...and you think its unrelated?

and yeah, it does deserve a nerf. THF will NEVER be getting any positive adjustments (even a damn native subtle blow) because of treasure hunter, yet it makes sense that a bst with 2 pets can recieve the same native treasure hunter effect? ok...

Pull the TH3 that's fine but why /thf > BST? Outperformed by a subjob, this must be what its like to be RDM. Or perhaps its a theme?

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Originally Posted by Zinato

Pull the TH3 that's fine but why /thf > BST? Outperformed by a subjob, this must be what its like to be RDM. Or perhaps its a theme?

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whats stopping you from going bst/thf?

Lack of procs, which really would change how dynamis works. If people want to have an issue with Dynamis its the JA not TH or BST. Outside sure why not, doesn't make it less lame my lvl 99 pet has the TH of a level 15, even puppetmaster has that via Taru sash.

but i thought wasnt about dynamis...now its about dynamis? You cant neglect dynamis when it doesnt work in your favor, then include it when it does.

so once again, it makes sense that a pet has the same level of TH as a job that had been directly told that any positive buffs or adjustments, even those as minor as a native subtle blow, will break game balance because of how powerful TH3 is? Thats even worse than a nerf, that means we have NOTHING to look forward to.

Let me clarify, TH3 or any TH does not affect dynamis. A subjob other then /dnc DOES affect dynamis. (wouldn't matter if thf, rdm, sam, war etc.) Changeing subjobs as we discussed is an entirely different topic. What is stopping me from being bst/thf? Its not bst/dnc.

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Originally Posted by Zinato

Let me clarify, TH3 or any TH does not affect dynamis.

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ok, then why the 3 pages of BOO HOO HOO exactly if TH doesnt affect dynamis, considering majority of bst's abysseaburned their bst's to 99 for the sole purpose of dynamis?

When did I boohoo? My first post i was laughing. I told you take away TH3 let thf have the only ability they will ever have, SE basically put this in stone by taking it away from everything else. All I have said is my lvl 99 THF pet (which by your testimony) has the birth right of TH, is equal to a pup/dnc in terms of potency, which is lame. Even RNG which barely even makes sense to have TH (COR would make more sense, Pirate + treasure = ???) has more then a BST pet. They didn't reduce TH as much as they put it at the very bottom, and the PET: TH gear ill bet applies to smn, pup and drg as well (meaning even with the gear pup will have equal TH to a lvl 99 THF pet)

And since we were on the topic of dynamis why do you think there are procs in the first place? Could it be they didnt want an army of THFs walking in and using TH3 to clean the place out? BST/DNC killing for currency may very well be a result of THF in the first place.

i didnt mean you directly, I mean the 3 pages of "WAHHHHH" going on here by the bst community, and I use the term community loosely as, as I said above, majority of people here "BAWWWW"ing use their bst solely for optimal solo dynamis farming.

And, I don't see why I've been farming dynamis on BST for months. I've used a variety of pets TH and not, results are nearly the same. (even I don't understand the need to keep TH3, TH2 ill fight for but not TH3) Why do I use Yuly? Because, mixed with EVA axes nothing can touch him, (I do have to give THFs credit for EVA) in most cases I can heal him to full with stay while moving camps, and have him there by the time I proc the first mob in the next camp. Otherwise TH has done nothing for me outside abyssea or a random farm fest here and there, both cases do warrent /thf. If you take nothing from this, at least take the fact as a BST that solos dynamis daily TH3 is not a loss, TH2 debatable since that does make a difference in everyday things. (and again all these BSTs complaining about dynamis have been grossly misinformed, since TH isn't even a BSTs greatest advantage in dynamis) Now if they take away /dnc steps or flourishes then there will be something to discuss.

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Originally Posted by Nynja

way to ignore something thats as close to as fact as can be without being able to actually being able to confirm it as fact. Dynamis gets an overhaul, widespread reports are coming out that with minimal effort and AH-tier gear a bst can walk out with more currency than any other solo job, all of a sudden the number of bst's rise...and you think its unrelated?

and yeah, it does deserve a nerf. THF will NEVER be getting any positive adjustments (even a damn native subtle blow) because of treasure hunter, yet it makes sense that a bst with 2 pets can recieve the same native treasure hunter effect? ok...

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It's related, but it isn't a problem. So what? BST is an outstanding soloer even without top notch gear? Well stop the presses! We've got the story of the decade right here! BST is a job who's sole accepted purpose is to be a soloer. They probably SHOULD be better at it than any other job since they sadly have nothing else to offer. SE tosses them a bit of TH since they're usually on their own, and it's all of a sudden Armageddon.

A WHM is still the best healer in game even if they aren't tricked out. A DD job is still going to do more DPS than a non-DD job. A half-assed BST is going to solo better than a job with less natural soloing ability. That's just how it is.

If you want something good for THF then ask for something good for THF. Taking a wiz in someone else's Cheerios doesn't do a thing for you unless you just get a thrill out of being vindictive. I'd like to think you aren't that type, but many people in life seem to be. Heck, I know I don't count for much but I'd be behind THF getting a boost. I know you guys have had it rough for a long time, and I'd be glad to see things change for the better.

Square Enix should get out of the gaming business, and start selling retread tires.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

BST is a job who's sole accepted purpose is to be a soloer. They probably SHOULD be better at it than any other job since they sadly have nothing else to offer.

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and THF is a job who's sole purpose as STATED BY THE GAME DEVS is to make treasure appear. They probaby SHOULD be better at it than any other job since sadly they have nothing else to offer.

yet a bst walks out with a lot more currency than a solo thf. go figure.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

If you want something good for THF then ask for something good for THF.

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We did, and guess what we were told?
Q: Add Subtle Blow to thief.
A: Due to the fact that normal attacks now increase the effects of Treasure Hunter, we chose to forgo the addition of Subtle Blow as a trade off.

Cant give native Subtle Blow becuse of Treasure Hunter.

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Originally Posted by Nynja

and THF is a job who's sole purpose as STATED BY THE GAME DEVS is to make treasure appear. They probaby SHOULD be better at it than any other job since sadly they have nothing else to offer.

yet a bst walks out with a lot more currency than a solo thf. go figure.

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I'd have no problem at all with them boosting THF's base TH. Hell it'd be great for everyone who is a THF or teams up with one. Tanaka would sooner pull the plug on the servers than have more loot dropping, but this is the direction they should be going in. If they wanted to do this or you wanted to propose it, it's got my support.

As I said, I'd love for THF to get some love. You guys deserve a break after all these years. I don't know if more TH is the answer or what, but I want good things to happen for THFs. I just don't want bad things to happen to BST or any other job.

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Originally Posted by Nynja

and THF is a job who's sole purpose as STATED BY THE GAME DEVS is to make treasure appear. They probaby SHOULD be better at it than any other job since sadly they have nothing else to offer.

yet a bst walks out with a lot more currency than a solo thf. go figure.

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/dnc + proc system. Not trying to fight you just making sure we know who the culprit is.
BST and THF are fighting neither cause a significant change in dynamis. BST/DNC better DD than THF/DNC, simple as that. After the adjustment BST will still pull in more currency. I'd be upset about limbus if over 60% of mobs weren't preset for drops.