New 99 trials

/facepalm.

At least your content is worthwhile and current?

What's not current about dynamis? There's relic +2 upgrades you can farm and upgrade. ADL is still a semi challenge. Heck how many people have even killed ADL vs flan/ogre?

Its been brought up already. Doing Dynamis for someones relic is an opportunity cost. It requires you to skip doing your own runs to work on your own relics/farm for currency for money. If you are doing ADL, you won't be getting nearly as many +2 upgrades as you woudl on your own.

You can also do VWNMs a lot more then 2 hours a day, once a day. And the other people there are getting something out of it for their time.

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Originally Posted by macross

What's not current about dynamis? There's relic +2 upgrades you can farm and upgrade. ADL is still a semi challenge. Heck how many people have even killed ADL vs flan/ogre?

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Thats the content you would be giving up to do ADL. And there is nothing challenging about a fight that you can get boned out of a drop cause you pick the wrong clone with no why to tell. So while you can buy the items no one in their right mind will farm ADL to sell its drops. With the emp items people are still doing fights that drop them and if they want to get back any of the gil they wasted on them they will sell.

Also the days of giving one person all the coins are long over, no one is that much of a blind sheep much less people.

There's no cinder/dross in circulation because the few people with 95s are snatching them up so they can finish the second the trial goes live. They probably never even make it to bazaar because someone in the alliance is buying them as they drop. It sucks that emps are stuck with another gil trial but if you can go a few weeks with your 95 while the 10 "NEED IT NOW" people finish the prices will probably drop back down to 500kish since there's so few 95s out there.

I think the empy trials are pretty ridiculous. Once people stop doing a certain NM, you have lower and lower chances as the days go by, to finish your weapon in a reasonable time/gil cost. The whole system is pretty stupid, would it have killed them to include a point system so you could exchange the points for empy upgrade items, similar to how certain magian weapons use bastion items?

At least then, it doesnt really cost the other 17 people to help you do it. Just stones really.

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Originally Posted by Draylo

I think the empy trials are pretty ridiculous. Once people stop doing a certain NM, you have lower and lower chances as the days go by, to finish your weapon in a reason time/gil cost. The whole system is pretty stupid, would it have killed them to include a point system so you could exchange the points for empy upgrade items, similar to how certain magian weapons use bastion items?

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I agree. The terrible gear drop rates aren't gonna be enough to keep people doing HMP droppers forever. As new events come out to draw peoples attention away the supply will get lower and lower. They will eventually have to add HMPs at least to other content. Well you would think they would have to but we all know how that worked out with alexandrite.

So Gimpchan trolled in the other thread and they used it as an excuse to delete it?
It's the first time in 15 years of internet that I see, on an important and official forum, a thread as big as that one deleted instead of moderated/locked.
Tells a lot I guess, or maybe it doesn't.

Still, it doesn't change the fact we're getting bent to 90° once again. I'd wish for a lot of people to stop paying their monthly fees at least for a month or two, as a "global strike" to give Devs a signal of how unhappy we are with these lasts announcements and many others that happened over the last months, but sadly we're all too addicted to this game for that to happen.

It's not the 95 holders buying them up, it's the resellers trying to capitalize on 95 holders. I know one guy who bought 30 of them when they were 100k, now trying to sell em for 1.5m each. Sadly I'm sure some rich guy will buy em all just to have the 99 done, but that guy won't be me. I really wonder how many 95s will even get made, being that qilin isn't spammed no more. Heck it still took me 1 month to get 1500 back when there were alwasy 3 full allys farming qilin all the time.

For the Empy trials, they should have added a new, higher level set of mobs to Abyssea and required 100 items for the 95 stage and 125 for 99.

I know they decided to make the last 2 Empy trials extra difficult to BALANCE!! the relative ease at which one could reach the 90 stage, but that idea was ridiculous from the start. Real balance would have been to keep the difficulty consistently progressive and make the trials realistically obtainable by those who were able to complete the previous ones. (You know, like what they said the 99 Relic trial was supposed to be.)

If Empys hadn't turned out as difficult to complete as they would have liked, they should have accepted that, learned from their "mistake," and applied that knowledge to future content. Instead, they decided to effectively punish Empy owners for THEIR "mistake." While I'm sure that sits well with players who looked down on Empys for being too easy to obtain, I'm not seeing what it does for people who actually own them and enjoyed the process as it was. Aren't those the people that should be taken into account ahead of everyone else?

If anything needs adjustment it's these trials, but I don't know that there's going to be a poopstorm on this as there was on Relics. It's a shame, as I'm sure that will be required to see changes considered at all.

I have to admit I wish empyrean weapon owners had raised more of a shitstorm when the 1500 plates requirement was introduced on the test server, much as relic owners (and non-relic owners too, even) have raised a shitstorm now. Then maybe, just maybe, the number would have been lowered before making it to the live servers. While some of us did indeed voice our discontent, it was generally assumed it was just a placeholder number. I guess the majority of us thought it highly unlikely that the empyrean weapon trials would go 50 - 50 - 75 - 1500 - but boy were we wrong.

The trial wouldn't be so horrible if obtaining the plates had been made a tad bit easier. Of course, in my personal opinion SE could have halved the number of plates required and it still would have been quite the task. But as it is, the amount needed, paired with the complete and utter randomness of drop rate, makes it a task that a lot of lvl 90 weapon owners won't bother with because it's just so discouraging in itself.

Now I know some people have finished the trial already by buying the vast majority of plates, and that's all well and good. I am currently working on 95 Ukon myself, but it's slow going, I have to admit that. I simply do not wish to spend all my online time on making gil to buy plates. I don't want to log on FFXI and feel like I'm going to work. I did do dynamis daily for a few months, but all of a sudden everybody and their brother were spamming dynamis. I got tired of the competition for mobs and the sniping of mobs, and on top of that the currency market nearly crashed and Ru'lude was (and still is) flooded with currency bazaars.

Unfortunately, the price on heavy metal has been rising lately. It used to be fairly easy to find them for 100k per, but not so much anymore. Now they seem to range from 130k to 150k each, and that difference does indeed add up quite fast. So all in all, people will easily spend 100mil+ (and most likely a lot more than that) to upgrade their weapon from 90 to 95, which in itself is ridiculous for the marginal improvement the upgrade offers.

And yes, empyrean weapons are easy to make up until level 90. I don't think a single empyrean weapon owner would deny that. But it's hardly our fault that SE made them that easy to obtain, is it? Do we deserve to get punished by having to grind voidwatch and spend the rest of our online time trying to make money to buy the damn plates, just because the previous trials were easy? I don't think so.

As for the next trial stage, I don't even want to think about it yet. I'm just praying that somehow, somewhere down the line (and fairly soon please SE), steps will be taken to ensure that the items will be easier to obtain. By adding more nms that can drop them, adding pouches, voidwatch points to be exchanged for dross/cinder (and even plates) - anything!



I think this is my longest post ever here on the OF, sorry. :(

I wish I could jump on the empy trial is bad bandwagon but the fact that I don't own a lv95 because the 1500 metal plate requirement is lol makes it hard for me to care. All I'll say is that Abyssea business seems infinitely easier now to even the most casual of players when compared to lv95 and 99 and... 210 million gil or whatever. Because gil grows on trees!

The bad thing about these trials is that the leap from a lv90 emp to 99 for hundreds of millions of gil is not even remotely the same as the leap from not owning one to owning one. This is where the 95 and 99 trials fail. But it's up to the individual. Do you or do you not want a lv95 and lv99 version of your weapon? And go from there. I'm shocked that we couldn't buy abyssea drops to build them. That's what I figured the trade off with them was - you did leg work for Empyreans if you wanted them. No bazaar buys allowed. Boy that idea sure was dealt with in record time. It almost feels like SE was acknowledging the VW drop system is crap.

I find the fact that the larger thread with the comrep responses was deleted to be...insulting. The thread wasn't just locked or moderated, it was completely nuked.

Post counts were adjusted and all existence of it seems to have been wiped.

"Delete that thread! We can't let anyone know the players were unhappy."

This is the most disrespectful moderation and Dev team ever.

They lowered the requirements in response to player protests. That couldn't possibly mean that they were listening to you guys? No no no. That's not possible. They didn't give you everything you wanted, so clearly they aren't. Best put up a dozen more threads and a couple hundred more posts with titles like "OMG SE YOU GUYS ARE STUPID RETARDS I HATE YOU", then complain about how rude SE is, without a touch of irony.

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Originally Posted by Zarchery

They lowered the requirements in response to player protests. That couldn't possibly mean that they were listening to you guys? No no no. That's not possible. They didn't give you everything you wanted, so clearly they aren't. Best put up a dozen more threads and a couple hundred more posts with titles like "OMG SE YOU GUYS ARE STUPID RETARDS I HATE YOU", then complain about how rude SE is, without a touch of irony.

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have you read anything, the complaint isnt the number, its the goddamn item
so in that sense, no they didn't listen at all


just like they still havent changed the ridiculous fucking heavy metal plate requirement

For all those who want to see these trials changed/improved don't let anyone bait you into starting a flamewar so this thread gets closed as well. Just ignore the white knights and trolls and say what needs to be said as politely as possible. Don't give the mods any excuse to close any more threads. If they still get deleted after that, then we'll know for sure what's really going on here.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

If they still get deleted after that, then we'll know for sure what's really going on here.

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It's pretty obvious they're just closing the threads and deleting them to try and make it look like people are happy with the bullshit trials. People already put in enough work for this garbage, why the hell does SE feel the need to continue to punish them.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

It's pretty obvious they're just closing the threads and deleting them to try and make it look like people are happy with the bullshit trials. People already put in enough work for this garbage, why the hell does SE feel the need to continue to punish them.

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That theory certainly isn't off the table for me. In fact, it's actually my assumption as well. I just think we need to refrain from giving them any reasons to remove threads other than their own desire to see them removed. We need to be "peaceful demonstrators" so to speak.

WE ARE THE 99%

Tbh more like we are the 100%.

Pchan is one player out of 300,000 with one friend who, combined, make up a total 0.0006% of the population.

Good news, though (maybe?). Mocchi posted on the JP forums, and my extremely uneducated translation (aka I read the numbers and translated like 2 lines) suggests that they may have adjusted to 5 ADL items, 3 PW items, and kept the 60 Emp items. Maybe.

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Originally Posted by Draylo

I think the empy trials are pretty ridiculous. Once people stop doing a certain NM, you have lower and lower chances as the days go by, to finish your weapon in a reasonable time/gil cost. The whole system is pretty stupid, would it have killed them to include a point system so you could exchange the points for empy upgrade items, similar to how certain magian weapons use bastion items?

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Because cinder/dross obviously wont drop from VW4 mobs based on the obvious notion that plates dont drop from VW3 mobs...OWAIT THEY DO

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Originally Posted by macross

It's not the 95 holders buying them up, it's the resellers trying to capitalize on 95 holders. I know one guy who bought 30 of them when they were 100k, now trying to sell em for 1.5m each.

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And whos fault is that? The items that would have been used for emp upgrades were known since Dec 14 (iirc), the fact you let them sit in bazaar's thinking 100k is too expensive is your own dumb move.

I mean, really, you were one of the first 95 emps upgraded iirc (or was that Eijin)...you upgraded yours on Nov 10 (OMG DETECTIVE WORK!!!!), and the patch was on Sep 20, you obtained 1500 HMP's in less than two months, and NOW youre making a stink about 60 riftdross/cinders? R O F L

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Originally Posted by Apelila

Earlier others and myself pointed out that the relic trials do not directly compare to previous systems. You need an item more than once. Hence with a point system, if say 18 relic holders formed a static they would all have to attend every run perfectly to have the same chance at the 20 items required to upgrade to 99. Assuming they where able to farm and kill exactly one ADL every day, that would be 320 days of nonstop dynamis fun and excitement before all their pretty gold weapons attained almost ultimate potential. The lot order would be naturally established over 20 runs, with some unlucky people making up the bottom 10.

But wait! The BLM cannot come on a day where they are #1 in line! Suddenly, his spot is taken by the crafty WHM who takes her place in line. The next day the same routine starts over, but now the BLM is a spot behind in the queue, like a manic game of musical chairs where the chairs don't get removed for 46 weeks. The order continues to shuffle, and at 37 weeks the first 99 is finished after a friend sold their 'unwated' marrow for his 'unwanted' gil. Tired and exhausted, of course the proud owner of a level 99 Brovura would like nothing more than to help his fellow man for an additional 10 weeks, investing the amount of time normally required for school, a part time job, community service, spending time with family, or other mundane social activities. After doing the same event for 259 days, for a total of 518 hours, or 24.5 days or time spent of course they'll want nothing more than to help others with the same goal. After all the last ADL is finally fell, the group will have spent 640 hours or 26.6 days together. As a group they'll have a combined time logged of roughly 11520 hours or 480 days.

In short no, a point system might not be the best for ADL. As I hope to have illustrated, no system would be

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Nope you just explained us why point systems don't work. Anger and frustration as well multiply the difficulty of the item by the number of person in the LS. The ideal system is a "your pop your drop" system where everyone farms his own popset then the whole linkshell (or group) pops all of them in their own run. If your "LS" is efficient you can do day 1= popset farming day2= kills x 6 (for instance). Assuming, like you did, that you can't kill more than one ADL in a run is pretty funny.

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Originally Posted by macross

Empy 60 drops is not fine. It is by far the hardest trial. The drop is rare, even though you can spam it. In 60 kills of the droppers I've gotten 2 riftdross. I've shouted for days, barely able to buy any at all, as people are already done farming these 2 NM and just do not kill them much anymore.

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Just as I explained a few post ago, at which point to which I was answered that I was wrong and voidwatch gear didn't suck. Yes it sucks and that's one reason you don't find riftcinder in bazars. The second reason is that the riftcinder market is 10 persons per server pretty much.. Metal plate NMs are still spammed though cos yeah nubs like trying their luck I guess.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Nope you just explained us why point systems don't work. Anger and frustration as well multiply the difficulty of the item by the number of person in the LS. The ideal system is a "your pop your drop" system where everyone farms his own popset then the whole linkshell (or group) pops all of them in their own run. If your "LS" is efficient you can do day 1= popset farming day2= kills x 6 (for instance). Assuming, like you did, that you can't kill more than one ADL in a run is pretty funny.

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Somehow I feel like you are talking about a different NM from everyone else.

pchan's posting again without proof of a 6 manned ADL or a duoed ADL popset? Why oh why am I just not surprised

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Nope you just explained us why point systems don't work. Anger and frustration as well multiply the difficulty of the item by the number of person in the LS. The ideal system is a "your pop your drop" system where everyone farms his own popset then the whole linkshell (or group) pops all of them in their own run. If your "LS" is efficient you can do day 1= popset farming day2= kills x 6 (for instance). Assuming, like you did, that you can't kill more than one ADL in a run is pretty funny.

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And even if that worked, how does that help the fact that every damn relic owner in your group/ls needs 5 items? You're still stuck in Dynamis-Xarcabard for God knows how long to finish them all.

You'd think someone who can make "16 mil every day in dynamis" (your words not mine) would be swimming in gil (16 mil per day is 480 mil a month...), could take one day off and actually provide some tangible proof of "hey, see, these NM's are duoable like I said, you really do all suck"...but....no...that wouldnt be pchan.

Because I can count ? If you manage to keep the frequency of 6 pops on day 1 => 6 kills on day 2, everyone would get 1 drop per 2 days so 40 days for 6 level 99 relics. Of course if you purposely choose to enslave yourself to a point system you are going nowhere. Seeing how easy having a level 95 relic is (compared to empy for instance) I'm sure finding those people is not too hard. If not then there will propably be a few going to farm it and sell it at bazar. I think that's how SE is intending the system to work. In one of my previous posts I've explained that at 22M / umbral marrow it's possible to find buyers if those are ready to go through the same pain as the level 95 empy trials. I'm sure plenty of people are ready to sell drops for 10-20M especially if they alternate popset farming / poping ALD. For instance with a linkshell of 12 (6 main / 6 mules) you could farm 6 popsets on day one and 6 ADl in day 2, therefore doing ~10M in two days per person at least and up to 20M if they sell for that price.

PS : I can tell you that If I find a 10M umbral marrow in a bazar I buy it without even thinking twice.

Uh, yeaok, whatever. I'm with FrankReynolds here, it certainly does sound like you're talking about a different nm than everybody else.

Once the trial hits the live servers, please do provide us all with proof of how you got your 99 Spharai trial done by doing what you have described in this thread. Simply put - POIDH. If you can't, then gtfo.

He cant without brew...I'm pretty sure ADL is significantly harder than Dragua.

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Originally Posted by Nynja

He cant without brew...I'm pretty sure ADL is significantly harder than Dragua.

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Now, I might not be in on some joke or something, but....he/she didn't ACTUALLY wipe to Dragua...right?

I mean, the level of pathetic that would be....

ya know i honestly didn't realize that MarkovChain was p-chan, thats how much ive been ignoring him, i kept wondering who yall meant by p-chan >.<

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Nope you just explained us why point systems don't work. Anger and frustration as well multiply the difficulty of the item by the number of person in the LS. The ideal system is a "your pop your drop" system where everyone farms his own popset then the whole linkshell (or group) pops all of them in their own run. If your "LS" is efficient you can do day 1= popset farming day2= kills x 6 (for instance). Assuming, like you did, that you can't kill more than one ADL in a run is pretty funny.

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I believe I was explaining why a point system for -this- encounter would not work, not point systems as a whole. Reference the earlier point of - Point systems are typically for single item drops. Also, my numbers are off, especially with the new announcement. But @ 20 they're more than accurate, doubly so considering the rate of building an ADL popset. I might add you have yet to provide any sort of proof that more than one ADL popset can be built in a single run, given the unknown percentage drop rate from the first/second tier NM's necessary, the free spawn nature of the regular DL pop NMs, or a strategy for killing multiple ADL (which is pretty funny).

The other point of my post was to illustrate how far a group of friends would have to be willing to go to help one another. How if one person got sick or had real life issues, they would be at a disadvantage versus someone with no friends and no real life obligations. Your "Ideal system" would still only benefit 6 people out of an alliance of 18, under the conditions you have proposed.

So ~chan, those pictures? Where are they sweetie?

I'm not doubting that an ADL popset can be built in 1 run, the pop items for the t2 NM's drop pretty often, and tomes are 100%. But he said they were "duoable with ease" and "ADL can be killed by a pt of 6 multiple times"...which is why were loling at him.

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Originally Posted by Apelila

I might add you have yet to provide any sort of proof that more than one ADL popset can be built in a single run, given the unknown percentage drop rate from the first/second tier NM's necessary, the free spawn nature of the regular DL pop NM

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At this point it is clear that you didn't read that you didn't farm any ADL popset nor read what I said. On day one everyone in a group of 6 would farm a popset on their own, and 1 run is more than enough for a duo to get all the pops(beside nq dl but this one can be killed in 1 minute right before arch DL). You don't have to farm the popset as a linkshell. It would actually be pretty dumb as you will end up bringing a lot of leecher that never farm anything. Also the drop rate are 100% on the NMs.

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Originally Posted by Apelila

Your "Ideal system" would still only benefit 6 people out of an alliance of 18, under the conditions you have proposed.

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Again you didn't read so stop arguing with me. 6 real & skilled people will kill ADL without trouble. Just don't bring some of the posters here.

Could you please post a video of you beating ADL with 6 people?

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Originally Posted by Kimble

Could you please post a video of you beating ADL with 6 people?

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So far, from the time she first posted, it's been what, three days? So as far as we know, it's taking her three days to farm ADL pops.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

On day one everyone in a group of 6 would farm a popset on their own, and 1 run is more than enough for a duo to get all the pops(beside nq dl but this one can be killed in 1 minute right before arch DL). You don't have to farm the popset as a linkshell. It would actually be pretty dumb as you will end up bringing a lot of leecher that never farm anything. Also the drop rate are 100% on the NMs.



Again you didn't read so stop arguing with me. 6 real & skilled people will kill ADL without trouble. Just don't bring some of the posters here.

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Prove it...if what you're saying is true, you'd be making 120m in 2 runs of dynamis...and these arent fabricated numbers like your "I make 16m every dynamis". If what you're saying is true, and you really can duo all the pop NM's and kill 6 ADL with 6 people in 1 run , you'll walk off with 6 umbral marrows, which would EASILY sell for 20 mil each.

So once again, prove it.

I'll server jump 30 mil per marrow to your server and buy them off you for that price pchan, that's more gil then you claim to make farming dynamis in the 2 days it will take you to go duo up the pop items and kill those 6 ADLs with 6 people. The catch is I want a video of you killing ADL with 6. Now you have no reason to not go do it, so get to it.

Pchan done gone inhaled chocobo dung again.

6man ADL? lol