Ok...let me level with you here SE...

You can spam Alima/Rex all day long with 18 people and possibly get all 60 dross/cinders in a day. The same effort in the same time frame wouldnt even dent the mythic/relic trial despite the much lower requirement.


lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geabrielle

First of all, thank you for taking the time and consideration to actual LOWER the number of required items in the first place. In comparison to the old trial numbers this is a breath of relief and I thoroughly applaud the information. Thank you Camate, thank you every much for bearing the brunt of a frustrated player base.

Yes, these are still ridiculous trials but at this stage in the game I expect ridiculous trials. These are the FINALs, friends, the end of the road and it's mean to be this epic. So feel free to rage quit, feel free to hollar about it like and completely forget the fact that you are supposed to be veteran players of FF11 NOT some pansy WoW player who wants to be epic in 5 minutes and throws a tantrum.

This is a GAME, its supposed to be a time sink of varying degrees based upon the flavor of the player's disposition. Feel free to go on a rage and flame fit now, if you wish. I'm adult enough not to care. Send all mail to whineyflamingbabies@wambulance.mail.com.

Good eve.

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What are you even talking about dude...

#1: there was NO trial previous to today, so how could they have decreased the required items for a trial that never existed?
#2: the items required for stage 2 are exactly the same as they were yesterday.

Quote:

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The planned difficulty level for the corresponding Magian upgrade trials will be such that a majority of players with the appropriate level 95 equipment will likely be able to complete them.

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No? The majority of players with 95 equipment? How does that even factor into being able to complete this trial? You need 11-17 other people willing to kill ADL with you, and then you need 1-2 SMNs (which has nothing to do with gear), and then you need to win the lot; you also need to sacrifice millions of gil every day you do ADL instead of farm currency. Overall, the relic trials are utterly ridiculous, especially in comparison to empyrean. 60 rift items lol? Seriously? I could have had that done now before the trial is even released.

You can spam VW NMs; you cannot spam ADL; and you cannot spam PW. Someone suggested that you need to make the upgrade items drop from the lower tier NMs. This is an excellent suggestion and should definitely be considered.

Oh you know what, you're correct. ALL of this is just temporary numerical values that have people screaming like children. Oh my! AND they reduced them from their previous high values to something along the lines of being a little more reasonable ... in already temporary unestablished values.

Your point is??!!

If you are having trouble gaining 17 other people to aid in completing a relic trial I suppose it's wise to start gathering some eh? This is an MMO last I checked and thus should involve some level of team play that isn't a second account and 10 minutes of spontaneous afk. I am working on Mythic, Relic and I have an Empyrean and my only grief is the 1500 plate requirement for 95, and only thisi because it went from what should have been 150 in natural progression became 1500. Other than that, it's just something to deal with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nynja

You can spam Alima/Rex all day long with 18 people and possibly get all 60 dross/cinders in a day. The same effort in the same time frame wouldnt even dent the mythic/relic trial despite the much lower requirement.


lol

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Not to mention there are 2 more VW updates that could drop more. I'm pissed I sold all of my Cinder/Dross last week when the JPs were shouting for them, obviously they knew about this before the NA crowd.

As much as i hate SE's idea of making every relic holder hate eachother (hi multiple people fighting over 1 single item), If they just made it drop off all Arch-Dynamis mobs, It might be more tolerable...

Cause in reality, How many Relics are there per server? Think logically for a moment, How often do you actually think the ?? for Arch Dynamis lord will be available?

Is it really such a foreign concept to allow Relic Trials to continue to be done in Tandem? Every trial since the first has been doable by teaming up, Why change that now? The hundreds of "Turn in X of this Item" is getting very old. (Geodes, Avatar-ites, Empyreans as a whole...)

It promotes people working against each other rather than with eachother...

You are an idiot. @ person who was siding with this trial, not the other two who posted in the time I didn't refresh. :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nynja

To quell the rage, they're going to have to either:
a-Make it kills, not item turn-in
b-make Umbral Marrow / Mulcibar's Scoria drop from additional sources based on difficulty:
Arch Dynamis City boss: 1 Marrow
Arch Mainyu / Arch CC/Antaeus/AB: 3 marrow
Arch Diabolos: 5 marrow
Arch DL: 8 marrow

Tinnin/Sarameya/Khimaira(I forget the name haha): 1 Mulcibar
PW: 5 Mulcibar

---

quoting so it doesnt get lost.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cowardlybabooon

You guys actually want the FINAL trial to take only a week? I agree with SE on the amounts shown for V1. V2 is insane though.

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I think it would be more accurate to say that we want effort and reward to be better linked. Given how minor the upgrades are for many weapons (let's be realistic here, not every weapon is best off using their unique WS), yes, the final trial should be fairly short. The current trials though... for perspective, though I'm sure it's been said already, the final relic stage is likely to have a total cost in the range of 400 million gil or more given that you could have been amassing currency instead of playing roulette with Arch DL. If the 99 trial literally crushed all options sans other 99 weapons then it might engender a different response, though I still think the competitive nature of this trial is foolish. Waiting lists promote no good will and could potentially generate quite the opposite.

If there are mitigating factors that will lower the opportunity cost of upgrading a 99 weapon, they need to be made clear immediately. If there are none, the devs are shooting themselves in the foot yet again.

EDIT: One caveat with making it kills is that any late upgraders are going to have a hell of a time getting their weapons to 99. As such, I'd still consider lowering the requirements if that option was chosen.

@ Karbuncle Do you think they might do the multiple ??? in the case of this release, perhaps?

Since I'm already going be eating forum Molatav cocktails I may as well say that I think the logic behind it throw everyone into a situation that makes teamwork necessary, even if its going to put them at each others throats. It's the same mechanics we ran into back in HNM days and sadly( and joyously for teamwork) it's being pulled in that direction.

Also, since it looks like we're going to be stuck with item gathering isn't it better to accept a reduction in number while SE is being 'generous'?? Everything is still temporary, lest we forget, and I doubt they'll change things to kill trials when the items for collection are already in game.

BTW ... I like Nynja's idea. I like it a LOT. If that is what we must be stuck with....

How on earth do you plan for communities to do all these trials when only 1 person in the alliance/pt can possibly benefit?

killshots? or will be get trials going to upwards of 10-20k kills?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Creelo

This is a wrong, horrible post... You realize that Umbral Marrow (if it is sold) is probably going to be selling for 10-20 MILLION gil EACH, possibly even more?

Oh sure, that doesn't seem all that bad.

If you haven't fought Arch DL, seen Arch DL be fought, or don't understand the premise behind fighting Arch DL, then please, don't post your thoughts about how you feel this trial "doesn't seem all that bad," because you don't have a clue.

And for clarification, we mean "Kills" as in everyone with a relic would be receiving credit for the "Kill." I know people are intending for "Killshot" to mean the same thing, but I kinda feel like "Killshot" sort of implies killing something with just one weapon, or with a weaponskill, and I don't want SE or the Dev. Team to get the wrong idea... (inb4 20 ADL Killshots with Mercy Stroke!) >.<

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Presume much? I've wiped to Arch Dynamis Lord a total of 3 times (pre-99-cap). I realize how retarded the fight is.

People thought 1500 plates was retarded too.

What's a relic cost these days anyway? 150M+?

So 150M sounds reasonable but 550M doesn't?

Anyway, I think the requirement should be lowered.

I still think the HMP requirements should be lowered.

Doesn't mean it's gonna happen.

P.S. i'm checking out before I start a flame war. SE should lower the requirements, we can all agree to that.

Quote:

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The planned difficulty level for the corresponding Magian upgrade trials will be such that a majority of players with the appropriate level 95 equipment will likely be able to complete them.

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20 Umbral Marrow's for a single Relic to 99 is still ridiculous, considering how much of a gamble Arch Dynamis Lord is said to be. This definatly needs lowering. The same with Mulcibar's Scolar, it's much easier to get a Pandemonium Warden pop now but that said it's still a lot of effort to go into a single weapon, and thats the issue at hand. Kills with the weapon equipped for Relics and Mythics would tie in more with SE's original statement.
The Empryean 99 trial isn't as bad as people were expecting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geabrielle

@ Karbuncle Do you think they might do the multiple ??? in the case of this release, perhaps?

Since I'm already going be eating forum Molatav cocktails I may as well say that I think the logic behind it throw everyone into a situation that makes teamwork necessary, even if its going to put them at each others throats. It's the same mechanics we ran into back in HNM days and sadly( and joyously for teamwork) it's being pulled in that direction.

Also, since it looks like we're going to be stuck with item gathering isn't it better to accept a reduction in number while SE is being 'generous'?? Everything is still temporary, lest we forget, and I doubt they'll change things to kill trials when the items for collection are already in game.

BTW ... I like Nynja's idea. I like it a LOT. If that is what we must be stuck with....

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Even if they add 2-3 ???'s for Arch Dynamis Lord, Have you ever even fought it? You can do that fight perfectly and still lose because it comes down to -dumb luck-.

Getting 20 of an Item from a mob that is truly just dumb-luck to win, and needing at least ~17 other people to help you do it if you want any room for error (Who will likely all have relics too, Why else do it?) is nothing short of unreasonable.

If the NM wasn't just dumb luck, I'd have no issues with it. It shouldn't even be killshots, the NM is bullcrap.

I wouldn't care if they made it "Earn 50,000 exp In Dynamis" or something similar to the Relic+2 Trials. Just not a "Free-for-all Frenzy of Relic Holders mass-lotting against eachother for 1 item from a Dumb-Luck NM".

Or, As suggested other places.

Make it to where you have to kill Every "Arch" Dynamis boss once.
Or as Nynja said, Have them drop it in larger quantities based on difficulty.

The idea should be promote Teamwork amongst Relic Holders, Not competition. No one wants the damn Drama or "17 people farming for 1 guy" days back.

Quote:

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So 150M sounds reasonable but 550M doesn't?

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You're right >_> 400 Million gil makes no difference at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raksha

Presume much? I've wiped to Arch Dynamis Lord a total of 3 times (pre-99-cap). I realize how retarded the fight is.

People thought 1500 plates was retarded too.

What's a relic cost these days anyway? 150M+?

So 150M sounds reasonable but 550M doesn't?

Anyway, I think the requirement should be lowered.

I still think the HMP requirements should be lowered.

Doesn't mean it's gonna happen.

P.S. i'm checking out before I start a flame war. SE should lower the requirements, we can all agree to that.

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Hun, you're contradicting yourself.

And since when was 150mil or especially 550mil ever reasonable? Not everyone buys their relics lol

Arch-Dyna lord reminds me of DL back when you needed 2 alliances to beat him. So I agree with you there, completely. Where we differ is that the item already exists, which negates the possibility of ever getting it shifted to a kill trial, OR if it does, the extra glowey trial will need the item instead and the hardcore achievement people will still gripe and complain. I'm willing to accept a lower number as a compromise which is honestly the best we're going to get so may as well as well plug for a greater range of NMs to drop said items in quantities relative to difficulty.

Otherwise we'll get stuck with "Gain 50k exp in Dynamis, Kill ADL 50 times AND gather 20 items..." Don't give them that excuse .... please!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nynja

quoting so it doesnt get lost.

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Yeah this was the best suggestion so far. Quoting again!

Quote:

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To quell the rage, they're going to have to either:
a-Make it kills, not item turn-in
b-make Umbral Marrow / Mulcibar's Scoria drop from additional sources based on difficulty:
Arch Dynamis City boss: 1 Marrow
Arch Mainyu / Arch CC/Antaeus/AB: 3 marrow
Arch Diabolos: 5 marrow
Arch DL: 8 marrow

Tinnin/Sarameya/Khimaira(I forget the name haha): 1 Mulcibar
PW: 5 Mulcibar

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Creelo

And since when was 150mil or especially 550mil ever reasonable? Not everyone buys their relics lol

---

Choosing to spend the currency on a relic over selling that currency has the same effect as buying the currency. You're down a certain amount of currency and you have a relic. Opportunity cost and such.

I think that kills would be way better than farming items for the first trials, but gil cost is a pretty accurate way to gauge this stuff.

Speaking of gil cost, I have to wonder if these items will sell for more than 20 million on a few servers. There's bound to be some guy out with a bazillion gil saved up who is willing to pay 30 million each for the 1000 items to make his afterglow weapon. Someone "dedicated" enough to realistically complete the Final Trial of Lonesome Sadness probably has tons of gil on his characters already.

I say "he" because while it's entirely possible a woman will undertake these trials, imagining such a woman would render me no longer abler to function as a heterosexual male.

I don't have a huge network of friends that I would want to press into farming me ADL... Sorry folks, but I don't want to ask them to make that sacrifice just for me.... As much as I enjoyed the days of HNM competition. I have enjoyed teaming up with other Relic Holders in completing trials... I don't want to compete against people for drops on this.

Square Enix... This is stupid.

ADL and PW need to be abandoned entirely as a part of this trial. 18 man content for the benefit of 1 person is dead. Even if changed to kills anyone not involved in the initial wave of kills is ABSO-F*CKED when they need them done. That includes any weapons not yet completed and anyone on break who is returning to the game.

These 2 NMs offer nothing to entice anyone not working on a trial to kill them. They are not reasonable trial targets.

People are making the mistake of trying to talk down an already insane price to a lower price that is still insane. Demand trials that have nothing to do with these otherwise worthless NMs.

If they continue with this... Marrows should be added to NQ DL's pool.

If converted to "Arch Dynamis Lord Kills" the following would happen:

Teamwork, you'd have groups of people banding together to do this fight, and everyone involved benefits.

Umbral Marrow, since it's still needed for the ridiculous second trial, it's actually make it available for people to try. When you have hundreds of teams killing Arch Dynamis Lords, eventually "A Select Few" will be able to attain the supply needed to finish that trial.

Also needing recognition:

Time Limits, It hasnt' been brought up at all, I'm amazed. You can only be in Dynamis for two hours, once a day.

The pre-pop NMs needed to pop Arch Dynamis Lord need a considerable amount of man power and time to kill too.

In short these trials will NEVER be done "In a Week".


And the big thing that seems to be forgotten:

Some of use spent in upwards of Two years doing Dynamis:
>> Throwing money into the void, upwards of two years of Hourglasses at 1,000,000 Gil a pop.
>> Gathering 32-64 people together for the benefit of one person, and all the problems that come with that.
>> Trading ancient currencies.
>> The waits needed between trials.
>> Finding crafters for the requested weapons.
>> Setting up "lost runs" that were dedicated to killing attestation monsters, repeatedly because the drop wasn't guaranteed.
>> Setting up "lost runs" to farm the fragment NMs only to have them warp out on you. and having to set up another run to retry.

Then:
Subsequent trials where you need to Killshot countless monsters. Yes you lowered them. But some of us actually did it "The hard way" upwards of 9,000 monsters, +/- misses.

Then:
Kill your attestation monster 5 times.
Not so bad now cause you can pop multiples, but when I did it, that meant another 5 hourglasses at 500,000 Gil ea.

Then:
Kill your Fragment NM 10 times, which was reasonable.

20 Ubral Marrows seems a bit high to me. But 20 Arch Dynamis Lord kills seems Decent to Good. It benefits everyone helping and could be fun in the end.

The normal trials should have nothing to do with the stage2 ones. Having the same item for both is retarded. Stage 1 should be totally different from stage 2. Collecting lower amount of the same retarded to get items isn't any better. With the current requirements they posted, it will be select few for stage1 and that one guy for stage2.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Choosing to spend the currency on a relic over selling that currency has the same effect as buying the currency. You're down a certain amount of currency and you have a relic. Opportunity cost and such.

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Yes, I understand what you're saying; however, that still doesn't take away from the fact that not everyone buys their relic lol, I'll explain what I mean.

You can do Dynamis everyday, save the currency you get and effectively be "spending" your gil through opportunity cost as you're saying. This can easily get you a Relic if your patient enough. But not everyone does this; some people may go through other types of making gil: Cruor burning, Merc'in, Salvage -> Alexandrite selling, etc, in addition to doing daily Dynamis. When I refer to people who "buy" relics, it's generally these people that are simply really into making gil that I'm refering to, which I don't have a problem with.

The problem I have is when people say shit like...

Quote:

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What's a relic cost these days anyway? 150M+?

So 150M sounds reasonable but 550M doesn't?

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Sure, I may have spent 150mil on a relic through opportunity cost, but does that mean I want to be spending an additional 400mil (20mil~ x20) or have the funds (or the drive x.x) to readily be able to do so after I put in what I feel is enough work?

No. Just because a relic may be worth 150mil~ in opportunity cost doesn't mean the player that owns it is busting at the seams with gil, ready to spend over twice as much as they did on the 75 weapon for the Stage 1 99 version.

What's the difference between 150mil and 550mil? 400mil (Derr), which could roughly translate into almost 3 more relics for my friends. :/

Fuck this, give me the Mythic Trial; at least I don't have to drag my friends to hell for all of it and can suffer in solitude as I take pictures on my own time of Sanraku's latest fetish.

If they lifted the once a day restriction on Dynamis, I could ALMOST see this as being possible. As it stands, this is going to be painstaking. The frequency of Dynamis Arch Boss events have tanked in my own LS because people use their time to farm currency/gil and lock themselves out when event time comes. Funny enough though, these are the same members who have all of a sudden expressed interest in Arch Boss events again, so I might use the opportunity to get members those last few Avesta Bangles/Oneiros Grips we needed. o-O

Also, people actually do want the glowy sword from ADL, even though drop rate is crappy. Then again, VW drop rate is crappy, although admittedly you can spam that.

I'll be honest, 20 Umbral marrow doesn't sound reasonable for anyone I know never mind most relic holders. Do you know how many LS there are out there that can do Arch Dynamis lord at all never mind consistently? I don't know a single one... Too make matters worse, we need the same item as for the Stage two trial...

thanks allot SE, that's just wonderful, now not only do I have to compete for an impossibly hard item with 18-50 other people, I also have to compete with what ever psycho wants to get the afterglow effect...

I just don't understand why relics can't be "earn a crap ton of exp in x zone" or "kill Dynamis Lord 20 times" instead of this Arch Dynamis Lord non sense. Everyone's busy being dedicated to bargaining a compromise for ADL but I say screw that noise. Relic trials have a pattern up to level 95 involving Dynamis. Instead of doing the next logical trial of taking on the DL himself, they skip him for the Arch version. What the eff.

Did we learn NOTHING with augments and the playerbase? We WANT to work for our rewards. We WANT crap not handed to us on a silver platter. What we do NOT want is to never be able to achieve our frickin' goals. Make us do 200,000 exp in Xarc. Make us do 20 DLs. Make us do SOMETHING that is feasible with work. The days of little reward for our invested time is over. Accept it, or risk getting left behind by your customers for greener pastures. It really is that. damn. simple.

And I'm sorry for anyone who does not understand that and wants to applaud such content design decisions. But the fact is when a game reaches a certain point in it's life span, namely when the dev company cuts support for their flagship MMO to try to make a new MMO the new flagship MMO or customers beat you to the punch and start looking elsewhere for their dollars, you have to change your strategy up to maintain current customers. This is not maintaining customers. This is giving the middle finger to them. You might not intend for it to happen, but that's exactly what it is in our view.

We are an aging playerbase. We don't have what it takes anymore to be doing what we did years ago. We want to work for stuff. We just don't want it to be nigh impossible. There are already a select few who owns these weapons, relics, mythics AND Empyreans. Compared to the entire population yes it's a select few. We already paid our dues and then some. We really don't need to have level 99 trials on any ultimate weapons to be the most devastating trials ever. Not even Empyrean after the lv95 trials. I can see that regret with the fairly minor lv99 trial of x60 items. This was understood some time ago when, for example, relic weapon trails to start were seriously dialed the hell back from what they were originally. So, what up? Did you forget those trials? 2,000 kills? What's changed since then?

Ah well, I hope the JP are fussing a storm because I know this deal is in their hands.

^
Screw ADL. Screw PW. They should never be involved in this trial.

18 man content means people who don't get it done in the first wave will NEVER get it done. This is a monumental failure in the "understanding how your game works" department. It really is like they don't have a single person in the office that plays the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vold

Ah well, I hope the JP are fussing a storm because I know this deal is in their hands.

---

When I looked this morning, there was a lot of !!! and deleted posts. Google translate made a big jumble of the words, but several people are calling out ito / tanaka etc. and telling them to go do the trials themselves every day after work, and then come back and tell people that they are reasonable trials.

They basically say the same things as here: the time investment is unbelievable, SE is out of touch with the fact that the players all have jobs / kids now, the gil investment is retarded, it will take years to complete, sharing the same item for both quests is retarded.... all the same stuff, only with lots of angry squiggles and a lot more likes on their posts.

This could be fixed by adding the drops to more mobs. Make umbral marrow 100% from ADL with a chance for a 2nd, and a lower chance (~25%) for all other popped NMs in dynamis to drop it. Same with Mulcibar's Scoria, with a chance for the T4s to drop it.

This isn't really here or there, but it just occurred to me that "Mulcibar's Scoria" sounds like some horrible disease that makes people poop out their pancreases. If a new disease appears in the first poor soul to attempt the afterglow trial, maybe it can be named Mulcibar's Scoria?

Anyway, this made me wonder what the words actually mean. Scoria is a wierd-looking volcanic rock. The only English results that Google provided me for "Mulcibar" other than some FFXI-related stuff were snippets of erotic fan-fiction. Some of it was Harry Potterian in origin, and some based on something else less immediately recognizable.

I hope the development team finds this information useful!

Do you have to do stage 1 first in order to do stage 2 or can you do stage 2 without having done stage 1?

If I wasn't 95% certain I'd be banned for coming up with my idea to fix the trial systems for the higher level weapons and various other flaws in this game I'd share. The idea involves things that Stroudsburg's human rights court would lock the people up for the rest of their lives for, I'd share... and SE's dev team seems to have stimulated the thoughts by coming up with ideas I don't even think George Bush Jr. would be stupid enough to be swayed by.

Trial for 99 stage 1:
Relic : Get the title for ADL being killed by an alliance Member, Weapon doesn't need to be equipped.
Mythic : Kill PW 3 times with Weapon equipped.
Empyrean : Talk to moogle 10 times with weapon equipped, reward: 99 empyrean and 5 million gil (because you have loans to pay off)
stage 2:
Relic: Get 3 items from ADL
Mythic: Get 3 items from PW
Empyrean : Trade 15 items from a Jeuno T6

Even then it may not take a REASONABLE amount of time for people who aren't running a sweat shop for their character.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

This isn't really here or there, but it just occurred to me that "Mulcibar's Scoria" sounds like some horrible disease that makes people poop out their pancreases. If a new disease appears in the first poor soul to attempt the afterglow trial, maybe it can be named Mulcibar's Scoria?

Anyway, this made me wonder what the words actually mean. Scoria is a wierd-looking volcanic rock. The only English results that Google provided me for "Mulcibar" other than some FFXI-related stuff were snippets of erotic fan-fiction. Some of it was Harry Potterian in origin, and some based on something else less immediately recognizable.

I hope the development team finds this information useful!

---

Totally adding this disease to WebMD and Wikipedia. xD

I was already barely playing anymore, but after hearing what they think is reasonable for the lvl 99 upgrades I am letting my accounts lapse. I didn't add Crysta this month, my mule account is already turned off and my other 2 accounts will be deactivated in a couple days when their billing comes due.

My husband and I made our relics (Mandau and Gjallarhorn) back in the days of 1 mil / 500k hourglasses and a full LS farming for a single weapon. We had a sponsor who would pay for runs and collect currency, members got points to use on lotting armor and freelot on synth items (some of which were actually still valuable). In 5+ years as an LS we made 4 weapons, it might have been more but several people who began sponsoring gave up part way. Our LS survived only weeks after the server merger (Ramuh -> Bahamut) and Dynamis change, luckily our last sponsor was able to finish his weapon only a few weeks before it all happened. Most of my old friends are now gone or have limited playtime and are no longer online when I am able to be online. I joined a new LS native to Bahamut, but it was very difficult for me to make it for their event times and I have been logging on less and less over the last few months. I've done VW 3? times, none of them gaining me any clears, gear, or atmacites. In the last 2+ months pretty much all I've done has been EXPing by myself, 3 boxing my chara, my husband's chara, and our mule account.

Knowing that the final trials will be impossible for me, even the stage 1 trials, has removed pretty much my last reason to keep playing this game. I'll keep reading fansites in case the devs change their minds, but chances are I won't be able to post on the official forums once my accounts go inactive. It just isn't worth my $60 a month for FFXI anymore.

Getting kills on ADL might be plausible, since relic holders could work together on the goals at the same time, but getting items from him means only 1 person will benefit from the work of a full alliance. I don't even know a full alliance worth of people anymore, let alone a full alliance that would help me with a pissy NM that would only drop a single item toward the upgrade of a single weapon...

The real issue here is not just the time and effort, but the IOUs relic and mythic holders will have to place on the community.

I said this in LS, but SE seems to not be aware that the community has changed a lot, and is no longer the same community that they had in the game's heyday in 2004-2006 when a vast majority of players were younger. Those of us who have stuck with the game have grown up, and we can no longer devote 'hardcore' play time, which involves spending 48 hour weekend slots organizing alliances of 18 to fight some NM and farming. It's interesting that while most games reward tenure to MMO with special items accessible only to longtime players, SE seems hell bent of punishing their long time subscriber base. What's worse is this came off a period where they seemed to have understood the needs of the community, with abyssea being a fairly accessible field with good rewards. Maybe a little too easy, but it was the right way to deal with the aging community. The sudden shift in tone since last year was disconcerting.

Here's a compromise, make T1 for relics,mythics killshots w/ weapon equipped. They can do whatever they want with Tier2. 10,000 Tanakites or whatever. I won't be doing that trial.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vold

I just don't understand why relics can't be "earn a crap ton of exp in x zone" or "kill Dynamis Lord 20 times" instead of this Arch Dynamis Lord non sense. Everyone's busy being dedicated to bargaining a compromise for ADL but I say screw that noise. Relic trials have a pattern up to level 95 involving Dynamis. Instead of doing the next logical trial of taking on the DL himself, they skip him for the Arch version. What the eff.

Did we learn NOTHING with augments and the playerbase? We WANT to work for our rewards. We WANT crap not handed to us on a silver platter. What we do NOT want is to never be able to achieve our frickin' goals. Make us do 200,000 exp in Xarc. Make us do 20 DLs. Make us do SOMETHING that is feasible with work. The days of little reward for our invested time is over. Accept it, or risk getting left behind by your customers for greener pastures. It really is that. damn. simple.

And I'm sorry for anyone who does not understand that and wants to applaud such content design decisions. But the fact is when a game reaches a certain point in it's life span, namely when the dev company cuts support for their flagship MMO to try to make a new MMO the new flagship MMO or customers beat you to the punch and start looking elsewhere for their dollars, you have to change your strategy up to maintain current customers. This is not maintaining customers. This is giving the middle finger to them. You might not intend for it to happen, but that's exactly what it is in our view.

We are an aging playerbase. We don't have what it takes anymore to be doing what we did years ago. We want to work for stuff. We just don't want it to be nigh impossible. There are already a select few who owns these weapons, relics, mythics AND Empyreans. Compared to the entire population yes it's a select few. We already paid our dues and then some. We really don't need to have level 99 trials on any ultimate weapons to be the most devastating trials ever. Not even Empyrean after the lv95 trials. I can see that regret with the fairly minor lv99 trial of x60 items. This was understood some time ago when, for example, relic weapon trails to start were seriously dialed the hell back from what they were originally. So, what up? Did you forget those trials? 2,000 kills? What's changed since then?

Ah well, I hope the JP are fussing a storm because I know this deal is in their hands.

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I definitely agree with you here. Where is the logic behind: attestation mob kills (lol) > fragment kills (lol) > arch dynamis lord (uh... shit?). What the hell sort of transition is that. Regular DL was definitely the expected and logical route to go, but of course we're talking about SE here.

Regardless, the item for stage 1-2 (which should NOT be an item for stage 1) needs to be dropped by mobs other than ADL. Nobody fights ADL, and nobody is going to fight ADL 1000 times. You seriously have to make this item obtainable from other mobs or you've completely ruined these weapons.

They clearly want us to do 1000 ADL so that when every Relic holder in the game gets the trial, it will put 1 more Sagasinger into the game.

SE just give us 10000 WS kills as a second option instead of 20 Marrows. That would solve all our problems. Those that want to go the route of 20 marrows can, but let us have the option of either.

Hey... Square.

You know why you are having to dumb down the level 99 cap fight for people?

It's because they missed the first wave of people doing it.

This will happen with relics if you do this.

Thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nynja

Seeing as how Atomic_Troll things Trashtar rapes Mandau, I'll lead to believe one of two things:
1-they dont have either weapon
2-they have a Trashtar and upset that its one of the few Emps that was never really more powerful than the relic counterpart (unless you're a dnc)

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You can repeat that all you want but the fact remains I have been arguing for the past year that relics should be stronger than emps so your argument makes no sense.

Also you calling someone else a troll is highly ironic given your history on BG.