To Developers: Accession

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saevel

Obviously another 10% JA haste would be superior to anything enspells could do without a very specific situation. DNC is also kinda of a rare job, I don't see many in groups and I've rarely partied with one. I was assuming no DNC present. Of course that opens up the possibility of RDM/DNC giving 5% haste samba, depending on situation could be very useful.

---

I have 4 people I play with regularly that play DNC for one thing or another. True, DNC has to be on a mob for Sambas to be effective, while RDM can cast at least Enspell 1s from relative safety. It's just annoying that you can't get both to work at the same time or that a RDM/DNC can't apply both to an ally. I don't personally like the job combination at all, but I play it in dynamis so we have a raiser that can proc just in case a reraise goes wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ManaKing

I have 4 people I play with regularly that play DNC for one thing or another. True, DNC has to be on a mob for Sambas to be effective, while RDM can cast at least Enspell 1s from relative safety. It's just annoying that you can't get both to work at the same time or that a RDM/DNC can't apply both to an ally. I don't personally like the job combination at all, but I play it in dynamis so we have a raiser that can proc just in case a reraise goes wrong.

---

Let me check this but I'm fairly sure that even with enspell on your still applying the special status effect on the NM. So while you don't get the haste effect, your other party members should be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saevel

Let me check this but I'm fairly sure that even with enspell on your still applying the special status effect on the NM. So while you don't get the haste effect, your other party members should be.

---

This is correct.

We haven't received favorable replies to Haste, but I still have ideas they might be more receptive to.

You know how they talked about perhaps giving Scholar the ability to cast Regen outside of parties? I've been thinking... in another thread I suggested they give Scholar mains the ability to cast weather spells outside of parties too, which is a good idea. And in the past I've also suggested that Gain-STAT spells should be castable on others, along with Phalanx (suggesting they get rid of Phalanx II) by Red Mages.

So what if Red Mage mains, perhaps past a certain level or under a certain job ability (Composure) could cast Refresh, Phalanx, and Gain spells on anyone in their alliance? Not AOE or anything, just on others.

While Refresh II might not be a big enough difference to make it so you want three Red Mages in an alliance, I think it has always been a big enough one that I've always fought for one in my party - being able to have it casted cross party would mean one RDM could hit all the mages in a party, despite party positioning. On the Gain spells, my thinking is that it would be for characters already getting hit by Boost-STAT spells that want a different buff, or other situational things. Same with Phalanx, although the main thing would be that it is party castable, allowing Red Mages more freedom to merit things, freeing up a spell slot for SE to make a new spell with, and making Red Mage more competitive.

It might not be AoE spells, but it would be a very, very nice change.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Economizer

We haven't received favorable replies to Haste, but I still have ideas they might be more receptive to.

You know how they talked about perhaps giving Scholar the ability to cast Regen outside of parties? I've been thinking... in another thread I suggested they give Scholar mains the ability to cast weather spells outside of parties too, which is a good idea. And in the past I've also suggested that Gain-STAT spells should be castable on others, along with Phalanx (suggesting they get rid of Phalanx II) by Red Mages.

So what if Red Mage mains, perhaps past a certain level or under a certain job ability (Composure) could cast Refresh, Phalanx, and Gain spells on anyone in their alliance? Not AOE or anything, just on others.

While Refresh II might not be a big enough difference to make it so you want three Red Mages in an alliance, I think it has always been a big enough one that I've always fought for one in my party - being able to have it casted cross party would mean one RDM could hit all the mages in a party, despite party positioning. On the Gain spells, my thinking is that it would be for characters already getting hit by Boost-STAT spells that want a different buff, or other situational things. Same with Phalanx, although the main thing would be that it is party castable, allowing Red Mages more freedom to merit things, freeing up a spell slot for SE to make a new spell with, and making Red Mage more competitive.

It might not be AoE spells, but it would be a very, very nice change.

---

Alliance wide cycles... While it's not a bad idea, non AoE I think I'd pass on RDM if they did that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

Alliance wide cycles... While it's not a bad idea, non AoE I think I'd pass on RDM if they did that.

---

Yeah, it was a big fear I had when I was writing it. If it really is an issue, I think maybe just Refresh should be alliance targetable, but the other two should be party targetable regardless.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Economizer

Yeah, it was a big fear I had when I was writing it. If it really is an issue, I think maybe just Refresh should be alliance targetable, but the other two should be party targetable regardless.

---

RDM seems to be SEs play thing for coming up with restrictions on targeting groups. We'll most likely have to ride out all of the updates to FFXI to find out what they intend to do about RDM. They really haven't said anything transparent in a long time.

RDM have no natural spell that is aoe. Not one. They don't deserve hastega and they certainly don't deserve some AoE job ability that allows them to AoE their spells.

That said I am all for allowing Accession to AoE more white magic spells, but this should be accessible to everyone, not just RDM/SCH. WHM/SCH and SCH/RDM should also be able to AoE Haste, Refresh, and what have you.

Edit: And RDM a joke? Please. RDM used to be the king of solo, and is still able to solo what it used to be able to solo back in the day. Now I understand RDM has had its light taken from it with everyone gaining its powerful spells via subjob, but I think there are better ways than giving RDM access to things it would never have access to (like native AoE spells). It's a good job, it just needs to have its strong points enhanced better.

Rdm has diaga, thats AOE

Drk has poisonga, that's AOE.

One spell of dozens isn't much of a precedent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Meyi

RDM have no natural spell that is aoe. Not one. They don't deserve hastega and they certainly don't deserve some AoE job ability that allows them to AoE their spells.

That said I am all for allowing Accession to AoE more white magic spells, but this should be accessible to everyone, not just RDM/SCH. WHM/SCH and SCH/RDM should also be able to AoE Haste, Refresh, and what have you.

Edit: And RDM a joke? Please. RDM used to be the king of solo, and is still able to solo what it used to be able to solo back in the day. Now I understand RDM has had its light taken from it with everyone gaining its powerful spells via subjob, but I think there are better ways than giving RDM access to things it would never have access to (like native AoE spells). It's a good job, it just needs to have its strong points enhanced better.

---

Yeah, why does a "Supposed Enhancer" deserved AoE enhancing magic... :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crimson_Slasher

Rdm has diaga, thats AOE

---

Huh. I checked exactly for that spell on the wiki to make sure before I posted that, and I guess I somehow missed it. You're right, and I'm sorry. orz

Still, I'd like to see something else done with Red Mage. Perhaps some sort of enhancement to Composure where enhance buffs become AoE within a small radius? I mean, the whole point of Composure was so that Red Mages would spend a little less time buffing while also enhancing their melee abilities. I wouldn't mind seeing Composure become like Accession. Perhaps a second job ability could be used in juncture with Composure to turn it into Accession, but with durations decreased?

Why are people pointing out Diaga? Not to mention Whm learns it too, I guess they should get AoE light enfeebles along with Rdm?

Neisan Quetz, would you REALLY be opposed to say slowga/paralyga/diagaII? And if those were opened, then we would have a chance at diaga3, slowga 2, and paralyga 2, imagine that, being able to paralyze all adds during an event? its not sleep, but with enough aoe debuffs and some cures, DDs could solo down links. Not useful in most practical situations but i wouldnt be against it.

No I have never desired slowga/paralyga, and diaga II is pretty much fucking useless.

If I wanted Aoe Enfeebles to deal with adds, I'd want Sleepga Breakga Bindga and Graviga.

...

all i can go is lol at this thread just because its started with a redmage crying about how he can't /sch and get aoe enspell II's or haste.

get over it SE won't give it to you because a scholar can't do those spells minus haste from current update being /whm or /rdm, but this is beside the point scholar can only accession the first tier of enspells because of /rdm which isnt even that great its maybe another 10-20 damage a hit.

i can just say i hope se doesn't take you seriously because this thread is similar to the thread on sch forums about a smn crying because they dont have thunderstorm.


oh and on a second not they also will not make gain spells accessionable because sch doesnt get them customarily redmage has always been single target whm aoe and scholar has been a mix of the mages. so what i have to say is learn your job oh and the only reason scholar can do a stronger phalanx is because our enhancing skill. if a redmage actually focused on enhancing skill gear set before casting a spell im sure the could match or surpass a scholar's phalanx

Im starting to get a poor impression of those on Quetzalcoatl as of late. Dunno what rdms you run into complaining about sch and phalanx, but ive got no issue outmatching schs with enhancing magic. As for aoe enfeebs, while you dont see em practical, id like to see em. I mean hell, a regular past time, fell cleaving, could benefit from something like diaga II/III.

But to each their own, id take a situationally useful thing over absolutely nothing at all, which is why i can atleast enjoy things like scarlet delierium (would like a longer duration though) or shield mastery, even if i dont get much use out of them. The times i do get use out of em make me smile and go "oh yeah, that was pretty handy right THERE!"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jamesy

all i can go is lol at this thread just because its started with a redmage crying about how he can't /sch and get aoe enspell II's or haste.

get over it SE won't give it to you because a scholar can't do those spells minus haste from current update being /whm or /rdm, but this is beside the point scholar can only accession the first tier of enspells because of /rdm which isnt even that great its maybe another 10-20 damage a hit.

i can just say i hope se doesn't take you seriously because this thread is similar to the thread on sch forums about a smn crying because they dont have thunderstorm.


oh and on a second not they also will not make gain spells accessionable because sch doesnt get them customarily redmage has always been single target whm aoe and scholar has been a mix of the mages. so what i have to say is learn your job oh and the only reason scholar can do a stronger phalanx is because our enhancing skill. if a redmage actually focused on enhancing skill gear set before casting a spell im sure the could match or surpass a scholar's phalanx

---

Two things....

1: Everyjob can do something unique with /job except anyjob /SCH

2. SCH Can't do a better Phalanx, SCH and RDM have the same skill, RDM has more gear so RDM is and will be until equipment change the superior Enhancer where Phalanx is concerned. The only one that competes is WHM and they can't get AoE/Targetable Phalanx.

Doing a quick scan I got gear: SCH = 66 (with rare VW body) ---- RDM = 84

lol i wasn't saying scholar was better i was saying someone crying over not having accession is silly and you are continuing to prove my point that a redmage can get a stronger phalanx if they actually use enhancing gear

Just another troll trying to start a fire. Ignore them an they'll go away.

Remember kids, only you can stop forum fires

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crimson_Slasher

Im starting to get a poor impression of those on Quetzalcoatl as of late. Dunno what rdms you run into complaining about sch and phalanx, but ive got no issue outmatching schs with enhancing magic. As for aoe enfeebs, while you dont see em practical, id like to see em. I mean hell, a regular past time, fell cleaving, could benefit from something like diaga II/III.

But to each their own, id take a situationally useful thing over absolutely nothing at all, which is why i can atleast enjoy things like scarlet delierium (would like a longer duration though) or shield mastery, even if i dont get much use out of them. The times i do get use out of em make me smile and go "oh yeah, that was pretty handy right THERE!"

---

If you need Diaga for cleaving/AoE farming you're doing it wrong.
If I'm benefiting from Shield Mastery I'm doing something wrong.

I've don't recall really complaining about Schs having AoE phalanx, it doesn't really bother me. What I want is Phalanx 2 to be noticeably better than 1 and not just roughly equal with longer duration at 5 merits.

Phalanx 2 is better than Phalanx 1.



For people with no Enhancing skill or gear for it.

Higher base, slower gains. It's really an extremely annoying spell whose formula catered to only the most epic gimps for who knows what reason.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Phalanx 2 is better than Phalanx 1.



For people with no Enhancing skill or gear for it.

Higher base, slower gains. It's really an extremely annoying spell whose formula catered to only the most epic gimps for who knows what reason.

---

Hopefully the +2 piece of relic equipment will actually put Phalanx II a bit of a distance above.

Technically Phalanx II already is higher the Phalanx 1, but only at 5/5 merits.

To illustrate, with 496 Enhancing magic (my current without getting new shinys).

Phalanx 1, Enhancing > 300 = 28 + ((Enhancing-300)/29)
Once your past 300 skill it's growth slows to an epic crawl.
@496 it would be 34.75 reduction.

Phalanx II is just (Enhancing/25) + (3 x merit) + 1 so
19.84 [19] + 15 + 1 = 35 reduction.

So 50% of your tier II merits used for a spell that is 1 point higher then what you got at level 33. PLD's get their own at level 77, and while their enhancing skill isn't no where near ours, the scaling of Phalanx 1 is such that a PLD can easily get 28~30 reduction. So then it becomes an argument of 50% of your tier II merits for 4~6 reduction.

Then there is the argument of cycling it across a bunch of people as Phalanx II can be single targeted. I can't imagine any current content where Phalanx II will make a difference where Accession Phalanx wouldn't be the better choice.

This is why I say Phalanx II is useless, it requires that you spend 50% of your tier II merits and thus forgo useful spells like Dia III / Slow II / Paralyze II for a spell that currently has no place in the game.

Already gutted my merits for voidwatch procs. I'm so hoping SE would fix that when they adjust merits...

I want to believe

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

Already gutted my merits for voidwatch procs. I'm so hoping SE would fix that when they adjust merits...

I want to believe

---

Well seeing as how the full relic upgrades them in someway, I should hope they plan for you to actually get 'em all.

Well, at least I can skip pants. Again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

Well, at least I can skip pants. Again.

---

Yeah pants are gonna be my very last piece to worry about.

Currently (subject to changes)
5/5 Dia III
2/5 Slow II
1/5 Para II
1/5 Blind II
1/5 Bio III

Really want to knock off the Bio III / Blind II for more Slow / Paralyze.

Slow 2 and Bio 3 have always been my favorite. Bio 3 is more for Dynamis solo though. I like it when things don't hit me hard.

Honestly, I think they should just let people put full points into the tier 2. As a White Mage, I'd be somewhat screwed by this compared to the benefits certain other classes would get, but I think they should add merit categories and revamp others when they do it. For example, Protectra V can give physical damage taken -3% (or some number that makes it on par with Shellra), or something that makes it somewhat useful.

Certain classes, have six categories, like Red Mage, one class - Ninja, has eight tier II categories, while most, like White Mage, have four. You could either accept classes having different amounts, accept them having different amounts, and allow more max merits for those that have less then six (while ignoring Ninja), or just add more categories.

For example, if the goal was to bring each class to eight categories once we have the ability to max out all categories, then Red Mage could probably get something like "Composure effect" that increases melee accuracy, decreases the recast penalty, and increases enspell effects, or "Gravity effect" that increases the evasion effect and "Addle effect" that increases the magic accuracy affect, or something to increase "Gain-Spell effect." Personally, I still think Phalanx should be other targetable under Composure or something like that and Phalanx II should just be deleted regardless, but that's just me.

Meh, I've been game for the ability to fully merit everything. It would've been a hell of a task back in the day. Maybe not so much now, but still a healthy chunk of time invested. All the new WS probably doubled that investment, too.

Honestly most of the time i have capped merits. I spend too much time skilling and such so i usually cap merits in a week and have a bunch left to rot... So id be fine with this.

Even if they uncapped the job categories we'd still have capped merits, which is why I've suggested this:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Economizer

I think that regardless of how many things SE gives us to merit (even if they don't cap categories that don't need caps) we'll still eventually cap them. I suggest that to remedy this, we should be able to convert Merits to something else. Some form of currency would be nice, even if it is gil, but Beastmen's Seals or something like that would work too. Or it could work with one of the newer things they are doing like points for the daily reward system.

A few ideas of things that merit points could be transferred into (ratios subject to SE's judgement, and some items could cost more then one merit):

• Gil
• Conquest Points
• Imperial Standing
• Allied Notes
• Cruor
• Beastmen's Seals / Kindred's Seals / Kindred's Crests / High Kindred's Crests
• Dominion Notes
• Daily Reward Points
• Traverser Stones
• Ancient Beast Coins
• Ancient Currency
• Alexandrite

Of course, some of these things might not be suitable, but these are just suggestions.

---