[dev1024] Job Adjustments - Scarlet Delirium

Why don't they just give us cool versions of Abyssal Drain, and Abyssal Strike like Zeid has.

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Originally Posted by Erecia

You guys get an ability with no downsides, and you get it just by leveling up and don't have to pay 3-5 mil for a scroll or wait weeks for the price to drop, when all of the jobs I got received either nothing whatsoever or gained abilities that have huge downsides, and you're still complaining about how much SE hates DRK.

I hate the people that play this job. So much.

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oh look another WAR that has no idea what they are talking about

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Originally Posted by Chriscoffey

All the while you are riding out warrior and still just as naive about dark as every other poster that comes in spouting "emo dark". How about you try out the dark comparing it to your other jobs before starting this path of ignorance. I have every job that i care to level up and, as such, I can comment on the various pros/cons of each from my perspective opinion. The only damn reason any of the melee having critical hit weaponskills outside abyssea see such lower numbers is due to the fact they fail at critical builds. This blind sheep following ideology gets old.

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and the Bull shit posts start ..................

you can only gear for crits so much and no amount of gear in this entire game will even do what Raized ruins does, and thats speaking for just RR one atma............. out of three....



and not going to reply to the obvious troll above this.

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Originally Posted by Jar

and the Bull shit posts start ..................

you can only gear for crits so much and no amount of gear in this entire game will even do what Raized ruins does, and thats speaking for just RR one atma............. out of three....



and not going to reply to the obvious troll above this.

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I'm sorry to tell ya Jar, but your the troll in this case

Give me raging rush on drk and I'll make it work in any situation and work very well.

had some fun with SD while doing animated shield for some friends. Timed it just right 5-6 times (shield bash only did about 1300 to me in my pdt gear, leaving me with 400ish hp) after that holy crap did I start to hit hard. If you don't suck you can make this ability work until they hopefully fix it, and if they don't I'll make it work regardless. It's another tool, stop your bitching and suck less people.

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Originally Posted by Dart

Give me raging rush on drk and I'll make it work in any situation and work very well.

had some fun with SD while doing animated shield for some friends. Timed it just right 5-6 times (shield bash only did about 1300 to me in my pdt gear, leaving me with 400ish hp) after that holy crap did I start to hit hard. If you don't suck you can make this ability work until they hopefully fix it, and if they don't I'll make it work regardless. It's another tool, stop your bitching and suck less people.

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Yeah i've found the ability to be quite useful, did a bunch of WoE yesterday, with all the 1500 AoE spam in the new fluxes i was getting some very nice SD procs. Should work well in VW too.

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Originally Posted by Dart

Give me raging rush on drk and I'll make it work in any situation and work very well.

had some fun with SD while doing animated shield for some friends. Timed it just right 5-6 times (shield bash only did about 1300 to me in my pdt gear, leaving me with 400ish hp) after that holy crap did I start to hit hard. If you don't suck you can make this ability work until they hopefully fix it, and if they don't I'll make it work regardless. It's another tool, stop your bitching and suck less people.

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Critical hit weaponskills with the proper fTP and mods make leaps and bounds damage over higher modified weaponskills. Once you realize that you are capping out attack or at least minimum gains compared to stats or crits/DA/TA rates it really sheds new light upon what you can do. I don't need any atma to build a critical build Jar. That is where you and every other melee that believes they understand criticals outside abyssea fail. There are numerous gear pieces that jack up your rate and when combined with other DA/TA pieces its quite overwhelming what you can do outside. I am not listing all this gear because if you even have an ounce of research you would have realized what I already know already about these critical weaponskills.

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Originally Posted by Chriscoffey

Critical hit weaponskills with the proper fTP and mods make leaps and bounds damage over higher modified weaponskills. Once you realize that you are capping out attack or at least minimum gains compared to stats or crits/DA/TA rates it really sheds new light upon what you can do. I don't need any atma to build a critical build Jar. That is where you and every other melee that believes they understand criticals outside abyssea fail. There are numerous gear pieces that jack up your rate and when combined with other DA/TA pieces its quite overwhelming what you can do outside. I am not listing all this gear because if you even have an ounce of research you would have realized what I already know already about these critical weaponskills.

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Think this guy got wooshed


also enter key forum-ed much?

Troll much buddy because unless you can argue anything against what I'm presenting you are just another troll clouded in your own hole in the ground. For the record you are in the minority in most of your views about dark just as a reminder. If you can't attack my stance at least you have the dignity to attack my paragraph structure. Well played ad hominem lad well played indeed.

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Originally Posted by Dart

Give me raging rush on drk and I'll make it work in any situation and work very well.

had some fun with SD while doing animated shield for some friends. Timed it just right 5-6 times (shield bash only did about 1300 to me in my pdt gear, leaving me with 400ish hp) after that holy crap did I start to hit hard. If you don't suck you can make this ability work until they hopefully fix it, and if they don't I'll make it work regardless. It's another tool, stop your bitching and suck less people.

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My perfect ability to execute it doesn't change the fact its a poorly thought out ability.

And sucks.

I had a 2k+ crit on animated bow with it. This is bad how?

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Originally Posted by Dart

I had a 2k+ crit on animated bow with it. This is bad how?

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Unpredictable, niche use, requires perfect timing in a niche situation. Only useful on targets that hit you for nearly all your hp.

Would be nice to have the ability just be 'good' without all the other situational BS tied to it.

Palisade isn't situational.

Spontaneity isn't.

Bully isn't.

Manafont isn't.

Unbridled Knowledge isn't.

You get the point.


A straight 30% damage boost to your next WS every 3 minutes would have been better. Make it take 15% of our max hp, I don't care.

Oh look another idea thats 5x better than Scarlet Delirium, wow this is hard.

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Originally Posted by Urteil

Unpredictable, niche use, requires perfect timing in a niche situation. Only useful on targets that hit you for nearly all your hp.

Would be nice to have the ability just be 'good' without all the other situational BS tied to it.

Palisade isn't situational.

Spontaneity isn't.

Bully isn't.

Manafont isn't.

Unbridled Knowledge isn't.

You get the point.


A straight 30% damage boost to your next WS every 3 minutes would have been better. Make it take 15% of our max hp, I don't care.

Oh look another idea thats 5x better than Scarlet Delirium, wow this is hard.

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It has became dark's concept now to just accept half thought out abilities to make the best of them because that is as good as it gets.

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Originally Posted by Chriscoffey

It has became dark's concept now to just accept half thought out abilities to make the best of them because that is as good as it gets.

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I don't accept that, so I haven't given up my right to express my negativity.

If people want to give up and accept a good dicking, great, but I won't placidly agree that its alright.


Ever.

assumption, the mother of all looking like a moron on forums. Who here said that we've accepted it? No one posting here has, what we're doing is making the best of what we have atm.

I'm sold on it and been using it effectively since the update. I would like to see it on a 3min timer, miss timing it and then having to wait 5min is my biggest gripe.

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Originally Posted by Dart

assumption, the mother of all looking like a moron on forums. Who here said that we've accepted it? No one posting here has, what we're doing is making the best of what we have atm.

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I didn't assume anything. I look at the posted rhetoric against SD and what i see is a handful of people complaining and the rest of you "accepting" it in a situational setting. That is not an assumption on my part but the conclusion of forum truth to this complaint we have with the ability currently. Does name calling make you feel more superior to anyone here? I wonder if you and Taint have no mathematical basis to stand on sometimes and make this shit up as you go.

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Originally Posted by Chriscoffey

Troll much buddy because unless you can argue anything against what I'm presenting you are just another troll clouded in your own hole in the ground. For the record you are in the minority in most of your views about dark just as a reminder. If you can't attack my stance at least you have the dignity to attack my paragraph structure. Well played ad hominem lad well played indeed.

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Originally Posted by Jar

and the Bull shit posts start ..................

you can only gear for crits so much and no amount of gear in this entire game will even do what Raized ruins does, and thats speaking for just RR one atma............. out of three....

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I am talking about outside abyssea which you knew already. I guess I need to baby quote myself so you can understand it better Jar. Just so you know YES you can get enough critical build to reach the rate of at least 1 of those atma and more. You can't very well get the combined rate of GH/RR.

Claymore grip 3%, zahak's mail 3%, 5% merits, Rancor collar 5%, hecatomb leggings 3%, dex/agi 20% (max), light earring 1% crit. That is 40% critical hit rate. RR is 30% and GH is 20%. Those are the most commonly used atma so i would guess that is a really close rate to the atma. You can add warrior's blood rage on top of that for another 20% and it's 60% outside abyssea.

I guess i am wrong in thinking that you can potentially be at an abyssea level critical hit rate for WS and another reason why people fail at research like yourself.

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Originally Posted by Chriscoffey

I am talking about outside abyssea which you knew already. I guess I need to baby quote myself so you can understand it better Jar. Just so you know YES you can get enough critical build to reach the rate of at least 1 of those atma and more. You can't very well get the combined rate of GH/RR.

Claymore grip 3%, zahak's mail 3%, 5% merits, Rancor collar 5%, hecatomb leggings 3%, dex/agi 20% (max), light earring 1% crit. That is 40% critical hit rate. RR is 30% and GH is 20%. Those are the most commonly used atma so i would guess that is a really close rate to the atma. You can add warrior's blood rage on top of that for another 20% and it's 60% outside abyssea.

I guess i am wrong in thinking that you can potentially be at an abyssea level critical hit rate for WS and another reason why people fail at research like yourself.

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RR gives DEx and Crit damage also witch is no made up for in that set.

hows your attack in all that gear bro and how about WSC?

there is alot more than just crit rate to stuff gimme a sec to math out this bullshit ill edit it in in a min:



( D + fSTR + WSC) * fTP * PDIF
D = 144 (95 empy for lulz)
fSTR = (144/9)+8 for cap str- monster vit formula ((your STR - monster VIT)+4)/4 109 vit because you have 100+ str
mob has vit to match
WSC = (STR)*0.6
fTP=2.0 first hit +1.0 for 2nd+ 1.0 for doubles(+0.1 for belt/gorget)
PDIF is attack/monster DEF in this we will asume over 800 def
because even EXP mobs in abyssea have 600ish
some VW mobs have more than 800 much more even this is also where crits
come in. cap for Pdif is 2.25 for 2handers and crits add +1 to that meaning 3.25

now math time.
ukko's has a base crit rate of what 30-40%? i heard it caps crit with just RR meaning like 40ish ill opt it to 30% tho to help this crit build guys case.

set at HERE
((144 + (((103 + 47 - 108)+4)/4)=|24(caped)|)+((103+47)*0.6)= |90|)
Base damage in your set is 258
258*(2+1.27)= 843.66
now is the fun part.

you have 17% in gear lets just say your capping Ddex 37%+30%+5%=72%
also anything worthwhile will be 5 levels higher than you(most are more) 5*0.05= Cratio
Attack = 8 + Skill + trait +Floor(STR*0.75)+food+berserk
at 95 A+ is like 400skill so Attack= (8+400+20+Floor(150*.75)+150)*1.25 = 695
695/800=0.86875
dia and angon now 800*.70
695/560=1.2410714285714285714285714285714
now cratio reduces pdif by 25% 5*.05
1.24*.75=0.93
now adding in avrg crit pdif boost
0.93+.72=1.65

1407.45 is overall damage. ill do str/attack build tomorrow got a skill up pt invite

You said that "you can only gear for crits so much and no amount of gear in this entire game will even do what Raized ruins does" which in fact if you are 50 dex/agi for the 20% critical boost it's the same with a higher critical hit rate than RR. You also can have the 20% boost from blood rage which is only 10% less.

I am just stating you are very much wrong in thinking you can't be at those levels outside abyssea. You fail to realize each mob will be different along with each mob having different attack variances that you need to determine when fighting. This isn't a end all be all situation merely me showing you that YES you can be at/close to the RR atma level.

There are times you can't cap out criticals on HNM and you need to know their AGI. There are times you can sub in DA/TA rates over mods and up your DOT. There are times you can go full bore critical builds for higher damage and time efficiency.There are many times now of which most melee are capping attack so you don't need as much for minimum gains. I reiterate the fact that you must be a weak melee to not understand these systematic variances to know what gear changes are when and where. Figure that tidbit of information out and JUST MAYBE you stand a chance against a good melee.

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Originally Posted by Chriscoffey

most melee are capping attack

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you are f$@*ing batshit crazy

This ability is crap it really is, situational at best...I have got a boost from it in woe but it still stupid as hell...it should just be a straight boost, really its only ok in low man groups when drks are allowed to engage...all in all it still remains a half as ability that require bs for benefits and other job dont require bs for there abilities to work

I agree with Dart and Taint's stance. This ability is far more useful than we were giving it credit for pre-update. Ok, it's not game breakingly awesome but I still get use out of it every time it is up against anything moderately difficult.

Few examples. We did Animated Scythe/Great Axe/Hammer/Shield and I was generally getting hit for anywhere between 700 and 1500 when it kicked in. The end result was 2.5-3.5k Catastrophes and a 2.1k crit on Animated Shield.

Last night at VW on any mob that we could melee on SD would generally activate on anything from 500-1000+. And mobs where I died wasn't a result of being gung ho on DRK, it was a result of VW being ridiculously melee unfriendly as all melees were dropping dead.

Even if you only get nailed by a 400-600 AoE, the boost still ends up being 12.5-20% boost which is hardly terrible.


Yeah a boost would be nice but SD is nowhere near as bad as everyone was making out when you were saying delete it.

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Originally Posted by Cljader1

This ability is crap it really is, situational at best...I have got a boost from it in woe but it still stupid as hell...it should just be a straight boost, really its only ok in low man groups when drks are allowed to engage...all in all it still remains a half as ability that require bs for benefits and other job dont require bs for there abilities to work

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This pretty much sums it up for the 1,000th time.

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you are f$@*ing batshit crazy

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If you had read the rest of that you maybe would have understood what i meant about other melee being close or capping their attack against mobs on the game. At this point "having capped attack or reaching" gives minimal gains compared to other equipment which can be used for a higher DOT rate. You haven't did anything other than insult me with your ignorance so far so keep on playing Blu and sucking at that too.

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Originally Posted by Chriscoffey

keep on playing Blu and sucking at that too.

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so you boast about bullshit statements about WAR in a DRK forum and than pick fun at BLU...

cute..

also 17% crit rate is equal to a .17 boost to PDIF with out +2 feet on war meaning on any mob with 500 def you it is akin to adding about 90 attack that you could have had in gear with STR, atk, double attack, crit damage feet.

there are a few pieces of crit gear that DO beat the attack/STR counterparts but overall stacking just crit rate is counterproductive.

also dont BS back, math or stop talking.

Nothing I have posted is bullshit. You are just too naive and ignorant to acknowledge anything I say. This is the reason why you will never get better. Do you understand the concept of having closer attack to cap equating out to minimum gains in DOT/power vs other stats/mods? Why are you talking about warrior af2 feet when you originally said that no job could get the power of a RR atma. I apparently proved you could so you changed over to something entirely different. Do you also jump around tangent remarks to feel better about yourself being wrong?

Stacking criticals in pratical USE does work (watch this quote here) DEPENDING ON THE MOB AND SITUATION (<---SEE WHAT I DID THERE READ THAT A FEW TIMES). I try to compare each piece to what I could be using vs other slots and adjust accordingly. Try researching how criticals work with dex/agi so you can understand this statement. Also try researching what critical tier levels are for X dex = Y critical hit rate as you add more. I hate ignorance and you my friend are the epitome of such a thing. I can only offer i kick your ass at a parse.

Take the challenge and I move after I get my apocalypse complete or you shut up. Check YES ( ) or NO (). That is your choices in this matter. Much easier to see who is wrong than talking smack on this forum buddy. I think warrior would be a great job to use in this little matter. Einherjar would be a great event to go to for this. I would say dark knight but as I know you don't have apocalypse it would be futile. We are on the subject of criticals so much it would be a great "You are wrong" challenge. I am waiting for your reply and quite enthusiastic if you are willing to say YES to me.

EDIT: I am 20 Jadeshells away as I don't have much time to play lately. Just so you know my status.

something, something, monkey shit fight at the zoo, something.

Dart you are so mean sir.. so. very .. mean to me... <-- /emo quote.

i just want you two to stop and lets go back to our emo JA discussion.

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Originally Posted by Dart

i just want you two to stop and lets go back to our emo JA discussion.

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Listen man I'm just ready to go the distance to prove myself. That is the only way you can with some people. The issue with SD has been addressed. I can easily use this ability just like i use weapon bash to stun moves with precision and situational use. I just don't think our dark knight job should have to do this considering most other job abilities are beneficial most of the time. I honestly believe at this point the less we even talk about dark knight the higher chance something gets fixed but even then I still have my doubts about that.

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Originally Posted by Chriscoffey

Listen man I'm just ready to go the distance to prove myself..

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try posting a number or two than

math works wonders to prove your point when the whole games math.

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Originally Posted by Jar

try posting a number or two than

math works wonders to prove your point when the whole games math.

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What is better than physically showing you what I am talking about rather than argue about it. Surely Jar you wouldn't argue against a parse which is math in action right? I am betting even if i moved there and destroyed you that you would STILL come up with some excuse as to why I won but as Dart mentioned this is a derailed subject to this topic. I told you what i was willing to do. It's up to you to say YES or NO.

I am using math in a physical form in person to prove something to you where you can't deny it over and over like you have every other posted sentence.

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Originally Posted by Chriscoffey

I am betting even if i moved there and destroyed you that you would STILL come up with some excuse as to why I won

I am using math in a physical form

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Not a single number was said....................

fuckin bored of this now..

gimme something at least to chew on and math out this is just like im talking to a teenage girl who wants to go to the party no matter what i say .......

Edit: changed quote to stuff i laughed at.

like a kid saying ill come beat you at this but i wont do 5 min of 9th grade algebra to talk back.

and the math in physical form that's quite the way to say you don't know shit.

I have given the math already and even said I would physically come to your server and prove it. Man up and say YES or NO not intimidate me with your ignorant troll rhetoric. I have listed sets and variables and even said that certain things are situational depending on the mob you are fighting. What more should i suggest because I can't very well list every single set that I have or would use unless i know what we are fighting. Do you understand now or should i start with my ABC's first? If you can't give me that answer than i accept you don't know what the hell you're talking about and scared to parse against me.

I am very serious about coming there. I know that no matter what math i list you will troll me into oblivion and furthermore IF you had a clue about melee in general you would know to ask me about certain mob attributes vs what i would use. You are more like the girl not answering me directly about saying yes or no and trying to run around in circles about the matter.

EDIT: And your stupidity is one like scientist saying there is no way in hell that something could move faster than the speed of light and ONCE its proven with CERN they now have neutrinos that apparently do. That is the difference between your hypothetical ignorance and proven science in action. Give me an answer unless you are scared to be proven wrong in person.

With that last comment being said.. i shall refrain from derailing this topic anymore.

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Originally Posted by Chriscoffey

Listen man I'm just ready to go the distance to prove myself. That is the only way you can with some people. The issue with SD has been addressed. I can easily use this ability just like i use weapon bash to stun moves with precision and situational use. I just don't think our dark knight job should have to do this considering most other job abilities are beneficial most of the time. I honestly believe at this point the less we even talk about dark knight the higher chance something gets fixed but even then I still have my doubts about that.

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The majority of the time you don't have to use it with precision. It lasts 3 minutes so you can just have it up full time and then if you get hit it activates. And on stuff like VW you are going to get hit at some point and it's going to be for 400+. You can't stun everything and they generally have a lot of AoE moves.

Like T1 Jeuno VW Cherufe last night I just had SD up full time and at point Cherufe would either get a melee swing off on me for 400+ or Crippling Slam would not play nice and go through 3 shadows doing 1000+. Absorb Attribute was also insanely nice as you could absorb Boiling Blood Haste/Berserk. The end result was that I beat the 90 Ukon WAR every pop we did (and we did 12). The result was the same on the 1 T1 Jeuno Roc we did too.

This ability is far from crap. On anything that hits moderately hard that you can melee, it's really good. On stuff that you can't melee so well on it's still ok because all melees die pretty quick so at least when you are alive you're doing substantially more damage.

The only time it really sucks is on weaker mobs that don't hit hard enough to give a worthwhile boost.

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Originally Posted by Soidisant

The majority of the time you don't have to use it with precision. It lasts 3 minutes so you can just have it up full time and then if you get hit it activates. And on stuff like VW you are going to get hit at some point and it's going to be for 400+. You can't stun everything and they generally have a lot of AoE moves.

Like T1 Jeuno VW Cherufe last night I just had SD up full time and at point Cherufe would either get a melee swing off on me for 400+ or Crippling Slam would not play nice and go through 3 shadows doing 1000+. Absorb Attribute was also insanely nice as you could absorb Boiling Blood Haste/Berserk. The end result was that I beat the 90 Ukon WAR every pop we did (and we did 12). The result was the same on the 1 T1 Jeuno Roc we did too.

This ability is far from crap. On anything that hits moderately hard that you can melee, it's really good. On stuff that you can't melee so well on it's still ok because all melees die pretty quick so at least when you are alive you're doing substantially more damage.

The only time it really sucks is on weaker mobs that don't hit hard enough to give a worthwhile boost.

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If you aren't using it with precision then I don't see how it would not be crap, perfect execution is hardly a saving grace, but we'll count it. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt because anybody having this ability up full time is doing it wrong.




However you seem to be highlighting and agreeing with all the things that are wrong with it:

This ability only works when people are playing inefficiently and is more of an afterthought/gamble, then a tactical decision to increase one's performance.

Unreliable.

Works against basic party mechanics for damage mitigation and death prevention.

Niche use; not usable on everything like every other JA is. It could easily be made to be worthwhile on all targets.

Luck based, especially if having it up full time (I don't see how this ability is any good at all if you are full timing it.) There's too much that go wrong, getting pot shotted for 200 dmg as opposed to getting hit for a large %.

Getting hit for nearly all your health means you didn't stun and are doing it wrong, or somebody didn't stun.

*****In the chance that the move we are talking about is impossible to stun then you are relying on luck or Jedi mind powers to predict an incoming attack, because its instant and not preventable.

If you are beating people in a parse then I'd assume you have hate, last time I checked DRK parries like a person with Parkinsons and has the evasion of a Brick wall.



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This boner the dev's have for super large situational use, sucks.

So basically the only thing you said that makes sense is "Absorb Attribute is insane."

I agree.

Having it up full time is not doing it wrong. It's situational. For a lot of mobs the only hits you are going to take are AoE and unless it's diaga or something, they are all pretty damaging. So timing it is actually detrimental for those mobs because the recast timer isn't ticking down whilst you're waiting to take damage.

For example T1 Jeuno VW mobs.

Cherufe - Only Crippling Slam hits you and is unstunnable
Tawaret - Only hits you if you have hate
Yatagarasu - Only Dread Wind hits you which will get off from time to time
Agathos - Ridiculously melee unfriendly
Goji - Dark Orb / Dark Mist / Bloody Claw which it spams so can't just stun
Gugalanna - Only Mow and Lethal Triclip hits you if shadows fail but this is generally really melee unfriendly

So basically, 5 out of 6 of them you are best off just fulltiming it. 3 out of 4 if you're only counting the stuff you'd feasibly melee (Taurus may be feasible but we only did 1 kill and none of the melees could be bothered going back to change from SAM sub to NIN sub)


And so what if DRK evasion/parrys sucks? The last time I checked, a WAR is going to get slapped around just as much apart from Ukko's doesn't cure them yet Catastrophe does cure me. Yes I had hate but did I die? No. And it wasn't because I was cure spammed, I was actually cured the least out of the DD's. I just blink tanked them. Well actually I was SAM sub for the Roc and still didn't really get hit even when tanking.

And you keep saying it goes against party mechanics. If you are in range, you are going to get hit by AoE at some point. Just because I have Scarlet Delirium, doesn't mean I won't throw on PDT or try stun damaging moves. I'm not suddenly going to go 'Oh look a 1k+ move, I'll pop SD and not bother with PDT'. Of course I'm going to put on PDT/MDT and/or try stun it still. Scarlet Delirium just gives me a boost if the move does goes off which it will from time to time.

EDIT: And yes I agree it is not useful on everything but it is useful on the mobs that matter at the moment so I'm reasonably happy with it. The mobs where it sucks are generally either trash mobs or mobs where all melees are rubbish.

I honestly feel sorry for the healer in Soidisant's group...