[Job Adjustmentｓ Manifesto] NIN

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

You're right. I was thinking of footwork.

Unfortunately, I don't think it will really satisfy other people's craving for throwing if it just functions like an additional melee attack. And it will still probably have some awful side effect like increased delay or whatever other horror SE can think of.

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I'm worried about this too. Like it won't be 'an additional attack' like we know it, i.e. it would be another arm movement in the flurry tossing a star. I'm worried it would be the set of attack rounds then a long pause while my arm is hanging out behind me waiting to throw a "free" star, when I should have just been hitting.

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Originally Posted by Frost

I'm worried about this too. Like it won't be 'an additional attack' like we know it, i.e. it would be another arm movement in the flurry tossing a star. I'm worried it would be the set of attack rounds then a long pause while my arm is hanging out behind me waiting to throw a "free" star, when I should have just been hitting.

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I'm more worried that they will do something stupid like include the delay from the throwing slot into your next attack round every time it goes off. Or make it so that the item only comes from some obscure piece of content that no one will do any more after the first week it's out.

I kind of doubt the delay will be incorporated if they are basing it off monk's kick attacks trait. but the likely requirement of a consumable weapon will certainly require SOME deviation, as well as a recycle check to see if it was consumed. however, as described it's an add-on to a melee attack round, and for that delay doesn't seem to factor in, at least it doesn't seem to on kick attacks, double attack or triple attack which sound more like the analogous mechanisms. I always laugh playing thf/dnc dualing daggers and I get that occasional stretch where triple activates like 5 times in a row, because I'm swinging faster than my Monk using 100 fists. too bad its too unreliable to count on it as part of a strat build or thf might get a bit more love.

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Originally Posted by Glamdring

I kind of doubt the delay will be incorporated if they are basing it off monk's kick attacks trait. but the likely requirement of a consumable weapon will certainly require SOME deviation, as well as a recycle check to see if it was consumed. however, as described it's an add-on to a melee attack round, and for that delay doesn't seem to factor in, at least it doesn't seem to on kick attacks, double attack or triple attack which sound more like the analogous mechanisms. I always laugh playing thf/dnc dualing daggers and I get that occasional stretch where triple activates like 5 times in a row, because I'm swinging faster than my Monk using 100 fists. too bad its too unreliable to count on it as part of a strat build or thf might get a bit more love.

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I agree that the things I described do sound illogical. I'm just trying to imagine how they are going to add free extra attacks that use powerful weapons and increase TP return. I mean I'd love for nin to get a huge boost like that just straight away, but this is SE we're talking about. They are gonna have to nerf something in order to keep the damage exactly the same or worse than it was before otherwise.... Balance yo.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

This shuriken thing will probably use the base damage of the shuriken equipped, so no special foot armor required... Not to mention shuriken have generally quite high DPS, so that won't be a problem for NIN if this trait works well. I imagine it'll also grant additional TP. I imagine they'll make shuriken that offer bonuses outside of base damage too, like a shuriken with Acc+ or something to accommodate the use of this new ability.

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Correct, the job trait will use the base damage of the shuriken you have equipped. Also, we’re planning to make it so this will not activate with other types of throwing weapons such as darts – it has to be shuriken.

Additionally, as you’ve imagined, we’ll be adding shuriken with item levels in the October version update as well. Accuracy-wise, it will rely on your ranged accuracy, but as this might make things a bit difficult to hit, we’re also currently looking into having some type of modifier.

Also, naturally you’ll still be able to use shuriken as a ranged weapon, but if you do use them like this, the shuriken will be consumed as usual.

ok, does that mean shuriken will ONLY be consumed if you do a deliberate ranged attack? because that's what it sounds like.

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Originally Posted by Glamdring

ok, does that mean shuriken will ONLY be consumed if you do a deliberate ranged attack? because that's what it sounds like.

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Correct!

Job trait will throw a shuriken randomly on a normal attack round, and will not consume ammo.

Throwing it like you would a ranged attack will consume ammo.

You can get further clarification if you need it but overall this is how it seems.

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Originally Posted by Grekumah

Correct, the job trait will use the base damage of the shuriken you have equipped. Also, we’re planning to make it so this will not activate with other types of throwing weapons such as darts – it has to be shuriken.

Additionally, as you’ve imagined, we’ll be adding shuriken with item levels in the October version update as well. Accuracy-wise, it will rely on your ranged accuracy, but as this might make things a bit difficult to hit, we’re also currently looking into having some type of modifier.

Also, naturally you’ll still be able to use shuriken as a ranged weapon, but if you do use them like this, the shuriken will be consumed as usual.

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Will you be able to get throwing skillups when it activates? Or will you still have to level throwing through traditional means? Will it affect weapon skills? Will any throwing specific weapon skills be added? Or is this basically just kick attacks with bad accuracy and an iLevel item requirement? What is the base activation rate?

The fact that it uses Ranged skill gives me mixed feelings.
On one hand I'm glad they're finally giving a purpose to that skill, but that's the only positive thing I'm afraid.
They mentioned a "secondary modifier"... I hope this is going to be an efficient one. The problem is making so the accuracy of this additional attack can stay within the range of your overall melee accuracy. If you can't do that you'll be forced to use mixed TP setups and strange gear... it's gonna be a bit messy.

Does Sange still consume the shuriken? If it doesn't anymore I think I might remove my Hyoton: San and get 5/5 Sange.

^^I believe it does; 5/5 only affections shadow consumption iirc. Sange was still pretty "meh" outside of abyssea, but more "meh" post ilvl weapons. Sange was a great ranged attack in abyssea prior to that; if you are properly geared for it. I used Koga/Fumas.

Edit: Fumas may rise in price or become more common, unless they introduce some higher tier shurikens.

Will Sange remain a merit skill and if it does will there be a point to have it 5/5?

I think the +25 Ranged Accuracy is the boost for additional merits. Could we please get confirmation, Grekumah or whoever? :x

EDIT: Also, we will be bleeding shurikens when Sange is active. Rough estimate of about 30+ per activation. I'm hoping at the least this is factored in when considering the prices(Sparks/Plasm/etc.) for the iLvl shuriken.

So, I think Daken's great and all, but why did this happen:

LV60
Fuma Shuriken: 72D
Cermet Knife +1: 21D
Sairen: 31D
Omokage: 66D
Vassago's Scythe (L58): 84D

LV80
Iga Shuriken: 80D
Mandau (80): 43D
Kikoku (80): 48D
Amanomurakumo (80): 98D
Apocalypse (80): 117D

ILV
Happo Shuriken +1 (118): 99D
Togakushi Shuriken (119): 104D
Mandau (119): 91D
Kannagi (119): 106D
Amano (119): 227D
Apocalypse (119): 266D

How did Shuriken go from having comparable damage to 2 handed weapons to being weaker than katanas purposefully low-damage because of their aftermath? I get that maybe they needed to rethink Shuriken damage since they arn't consumed with Daken and I'm not saying they should make them have 200D or whatever, but I figured they'd be stronger than katanas at least. By the way, here's a fun one: Roppo Shuriken (L107) has D71, which is 9 lower than shuriken that is 27 levels below it. What?

I'm glad they remembered to put some decent stats on them though. I think Happo+1 will be standard-use moreso than Togakushi because of the stats it has, despite the lost ranged attack/acc.

Also they'll probably need to consider some form of recycle for Sange, a stack of Hachiya Shuriken costs 7k sparks and I'm pretty sure a Ninja will easily use up about half a stack every time they use Sange. 5 minute cooldown means you'll burn through them pretty fast.

Free damage and TP is free. Would you rather them change it to a 5-10% proc like DA/TA/Kick Attacks but give it the same damage as a Katana?
With Sange you get a Brazen Rush-like effect at the cost of some Sparks/Gil.

No, I'd actually rather they keep the proc rate and give it higher damage than a dagger, but thanks for the false dichotomy.
"some" Sparks is an understatement, I don't think you realize just how fast anyone regularly using Sange will burn through Shuriken, and FTR Hachiya are pretty much the only shuriken feasible to use Sange with. Happo Shuriken takes Watkza stuff to make and Togakushi is a drop from hard mode battlefields. The only hope left is Suppa Shuriken since I'm not sure where those are from yet. I'll laugh if you suggest that people should use Sange with Roppo Shuriken.

Suppa are from Bayld. ~5k/stack. More practical than Hachiya(and better actually for Sange) but I still don't think it's that feasible if this ability is supposed to actually be used anywhere close to every 3 minutes. You're going through at least a stack every 2-3 uses.

I'm really disappointed with the cost of these shurikens too. Sparks shurikens are actually more than the bolts/arrows/bullets. I could partially understand the shurikens being the same cost, although I'd disagree with it, but more? RNGs are getting at least 10x the mileage out of them with their near-capped Recycle and Scavenge.

Hello,

We’ve determined that there is a bug with “★Trial by Earth” where only a single Togakushi shuriken drops. As this battlefield is supposed to drop a Togakushi shuriken pouch we will be fixing this in the coming days. Apologies for the inconvenience.

Additionally, we’ve also determined that there is a bug with Unwavering Ironclad in Ra’Kaznar skirmishes where his behavior will change when using Daken. We expect to have this fixed in the November version update as it will take a bit of time to edit the program.

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Originally Posted by Inafking

As long as you're going to make NIN a more effective tank than PLD, Migawari should do more about magic attacks.

Also, something needs to be done about the gil / inventory requirments of tools.

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for the Inventory they made "Universal ninja tools" and as far as GIL (Get yourself "NINJA TOOL EXPERTISE") That will make you spend 95% LESS gil XD

amazing to have NINJA TOOL EXPERTISE !!!!! it barely uses the Tools you have and with hands Relic 109 or 119 makes M.ACC+25 (Asuming you are 5/5 Merits on it) whenever it procs....

I Personally got +85~% Ninja Tool Expertise

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Originally Posted by Camate

Hello,

We’ve determined that there is a bug with “★Trial by Earth” where only a single Togakushi shuriken drops. As this battlefield is supposed to drop a Togakushi shuriken pouch we will be fixing this in the coming days. Apologies for the inconvenience.

Additionally, we’ve also determined that there is a bug with Unwavering Ironclad in Ra’Kaznar skirmishes where his behavior will change when using Daken. We expect to have this fixed in the November version update as it will take a bit of time to edit the program.

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oh........... I been blaming the SAM this whole time for using FUDO >< Thanks for the letting me know it was My NINJA that did that on IronClad ; ;

I Feel Guilty now ._.

Also Would it be possible to UP % on the "Togakushi Shuriken" , "Ptica Headgear" , "Raimitsukane" ?

also make JOB POINT: "Ninjutsu Casting time" ~> "Ninjutsu Cast/Recast Time" that would be THE BEST Update you guys can do.