Please remove the option to close own threads.

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Originally Posted by Raxiaz

It's not a "holier than thou" attitude it's a blunt statement. Misunderstandings start crap all the time. I'm not saying we're going to start wars on an internet gaming forum, but if we're not stopping to think about what someone says on a freakin' message board, how the hell do you expect us to stop and think about what someone says or does in the real world?

Completely missed the point, I see...

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And there's another snide remark that's really not helping and only adding fuel to the fire. You shouldn't cry troll if you're going to perform the same behaviors you don't agree with

That aside, I didn't miss the point. Karby pointed it out in an earlier post, with the bit about internet anonymity. People act different IRL when they can't hide behind a screenname and a wall of text. Me, I tend to be very quiet IRL, and usually I'm not very argumentative unless I'm passionate about a subject. I'm not always the most outgoing, either. Online, I'm a lot more free to just be myself without the restrictions of IRL's social structure. I'm talkative, outgoing, I have no problem voicing my arguments when I feel that something's wrong, and I more often than not can joke around because people will understand I'm joking.

It's a message board, and you take it far too seriously. IRL there are many more social restrictions, and as a result there's a large portion of the internet population that tends to be more laid-back and polite. That doesn't mean misunderstandings don't happen and people won't cause fights over stupid things, but that's because no one's perfect. You can "think about peoples' words" all you want, but unless you know all of the information because you are directly involved or you've been stalking one or both parties to the situation, misunderstandings are going to happen. You can stop and think all you want, but there's no guarantee that you'll be right on the situation 100% of the time. It's how logic works; you use information given, and draw a conclusion.

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Originally Posted by Raxiaz

It's not a "holier than thou" attitude it's a blunt statement. Misunderstandings start crap all the time. I'm not saying we're going to start wars on an internet gaming forum, but if we're not stopping to think about what someone says on a freakin' message board, how the hell do you expect us to stop and think about what someone says or does in the real world?

Completely missed the point, I see...

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I'm not going to get into an argument with you. I will just point out this:

You are most certainly adding your share to any arguing/flaming/trolling going on in this tread, moreso than many others.

Hello Everyone!

This thread has strayed a bit from the original topic, which was to discuss the ability for members of the forum to close their own threads. Please try to stay to this topic, or we may have to close this thread.

If you would like, you can always review the forum guidelines at the link below:

FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines
http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1

Thank you for your understanding!

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Originally Posted by Raxiaz

It's not a "holier than thou" attitude it's a blunt statement. Misunderstandings start crap all the time. I'm not saying we're going to start wars on an internet gaming forum, but if we're not stopping to think about what someone says on a freakin' message board, how the hell do you expect us to stop and think about what someone says or does in the real world?

Completely missed the point, I see...

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An internet forum shouldn't have any impact on a person regardless of what is said; there isn't any logical or rational reason to get upset about anything I've seen posted on this forum thus far. As long as nobody is posting personal and/or explicit information about another persoan there shouldn't be any issues.

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Originally Posted by katz

I have respectfully asked you not to make comments about my comments. You have forced me to take further action.

"This message is hidden because Korpg is on your ignore list. "

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You put me on your ignore list because I disagree with you?

What would happen if somebody else disagrees with you? You block them too? You might have a lot of people on your ignore list pretty soon then.

Not that I care anyway, your ideas are generally stupid.

GM please just close this topic and let it be over with.

And god forbid any argument or debate stray from the original pattern of thinking. God forbid we try to actually understand each other's positions. Instead, we call "hypocrite" and get on with our lives.

Understanding can only be achieved when both parties can look at it in a calm manner. Its anger that is the route of problems.

I feel this topic could continue in a positive manner still. The Thread as a Whole, not the recent conversation. Especially in the department of brainstorming possible solutions to the matter. Similar to how it was brought up you could only lock a thread after its been innactive for a certain period of time.

Wow, I go play with my niece and nephew for a few hours and this happens.

What katz's problem is that I interpreted his idea into simpler terms and he thinks I was twisting his words around, even though I asked for him to restate his intentions and he said exactly what I said.

When I interpreted his idea into simpler terms, I gave my own opinion in the matter, which was opposite from his. He got all offensive and started saying that I was slandering him, which anyone can see I wasn't. I decided to give him a taste of his own medicine and started pointing out all the same slanderous remarks he made to everyone, which then he started deleting every one of his posts to try to say he never said any of it. Lucky that some of his "slanderous" remarks were quoted and saved from the purge of deletions.

We then agreed to stop talking to each other, and the absolute next post he made he broke that agreement. So I pointed it out and I got hit with the "slander" line over again.

That is basically it in a nutshell.

I agree please close this topic. The majority of view points have been made. Certain people wish to antagonize other people for what ever reason and its not on topic.

There is absolutely nothing more than can come from this topic other than "YOU'RE WRONG I'M RIGHT RAWRRR."

All possible, logical solutions to the problem have been presented. Nothing more for the Devs to read other than e-peen growth.

Please lock this topic. PLEASE.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Understanding can only be achieved when both parties can look at it in a calm manner. Its anger that is the route of problems.

I feel this topic could continue in a positive manner still. The Thread as a Whole, not the recent conversation. Especially in the department of brainstorming possible solutions to the matter. Similar to how it was brought up you could only lock a thread after its been innactive for a certain period of time.

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Well, I still think that the original poster should not have the ability to delete their own thread. Or delete their whole posts (but take that ability away and you will have nothing but "edits" with blanks in them).

Also, it helps to see what you write and edit yourself before hitting "reply," maybe that will help with these "deletes" and "misunderstandings."

Plus, it doesn't help that the ones who are creating the most problems are the ones who are screaming the loudest.

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Originally Posted by Raxiaz

There is absolutely nothing more than can come from this topic other than "YOU'RE WRONG I'M RIGHT RAWRRR."

All possible, logical solutions to the problem have been presented. Nothing more for the Devs to read other than e-peen growth.

Please lock this topic. PLEASE.

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I respectfully disagree.

Ideas such as solutions that could make both parties happy might come up. For instance a page back it was brought up that OPs maintain the power to close a thread, But only afters its been inactive for some time.

Right now the Reasons why/why not are truly played out, However now that that's out of the way i feel Solutions to the problem that can try to satisfy both parties could come to fruition. I know the REP said he was looking into it, So maybe if we give them some ideas that help both parties involved, It might make a happier solution in the long run.

Edit: I clarify, I mean maintain the ability to Lock a thread, The Ability to Delete a thread (If we have it) is simply something that should not be possible. I don't think we have that power though do we?

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Originally Posted by Korpg

Plus, it doesn't help that the ones who are creating the most problems are the ones who are screaming the loudest.

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I understand that, But two rights don't make a wrong. If we can show the GM we can discuss this calmly, it may remain unlocked, as it should.

As the "Problem" portion is talked out, The Solution portion should be discussed.

I do believe most of us have read threads on here that we think should be locked. It's all a matter of opinion. But should be up to forum mods to decide. Spamming a thread with "this is pointless and should be locked" is - well, it's pointless.

As for the idea of letting topic creators lock their thread after a set time of inactivity, that is definitely not a bad idea and will - like Ken pointed out - prevent necrobumping. If someone does come across a locked thread they haven't read before, and have something they would like to ask/add/suggest, they can always make a new thread referring to the locked one.

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Originally Posted by Tamoa

I do believe most of us have read threads on here that we think should be locked. It's all a matter of opinion. But should be up to forum mods to decide. Spamming a thread with "this is pointless and should be locked" is - well, it's pointless.

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It is also pointless to spam "close this thread now" when the person spamming that is the one(s) who are losing their case.

I'm starting to wonder if that's a potential consequence of removing the ability to freely close one's own thread. Will we just get spammed "CLOSE THIS THREAD NOW" posts that will lead to threads getting closed by GMs simply because it's spam? Or will they simply delete the spammed posts and let us move on? That's something that suddenly concerns me. :s

That aside, I've seen the power to delete one's own posts in the past, but certainly not the ability to lock/delete a thread, especially through a modlock. It's an easily abused power that needs to be removed.

[QUOTE=Tamoa;137636] should be up to forum mods to decide. Spamming a thread with "this is pointless and should be locked" is - well, it's pointless.

As we currently do not have a mechanism for contacting the Mods to close a thread it was a response back to the moderator and not spam.

If it gets closed OP can reopen it. If not someone can remake, probably me.

I see a solution. Keep the rights of the operator to open or close their topics but give the Mod the power to reopen it if he feels the topic has not yet been concluded and other people wish to contribute. If they feel it is going down the troll or flame core route then they can close it.

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Originally Posted by katz

I see a solution. Keep the rights of the operator to open or close their topics but give the Mod the power to reopen it if he feels the topic has not yet been con concluded and other people wish to contribute. If they feel it is going down the troll or flame core route then they can close it.

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Isn't that subjective? How would the moderator know if the topic is worthy enough to be reopened, if the question has been answered in the opinion of the original poster?

Besides, I think we are all wanting the power for the moderators to close threads exclusively, not inclusively. That is what we are striving for.

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Originally Posted by Raxiaz

There is absolutely nothing more than can come from this topic other than "YOU'RE WRONG I'M RIGHT RAWRRR."

All possible, logical solutions to the problem have been presented. Nothing more for the Devs to read other than e-peen growth.

Please lock this topic. PLEASE.

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Why do you care so much? I see you in nearly every topic begging for it to be locked.

.........Personaly I do not think the OP should have the right to close there own threads.

As people have already proven all these posters have closed threads just because they don't like where they have gone... and all that it does is move the thread to somewhere else. (the thread doesn't die... just annoys people alittle and makes them move somewhere else)

When a discussion has been started it is up for the moderators to deside if it needs to be stoped. If the OP doesn't like where is goes they can just leave it and start over. There isn't a limit to how many threads you can make (to my knowledge) so that's no problem. Like many have said already.... there is little benafit to keeping this option but it causes alot of problems.

As for the people who think this thread should be closed... chill out you already stated your point no need to spam it. let the moderators do there jobs. (for the record I think this thread should stay open because more opinions/ideas can be born from it for the admins to use when desiding what to do with this feature)

Do you not think an operator choosing to close their thread is allowing them to chill down a topic that has become over heated and twisted from their original intentions.?
When some members deliberately take your context and twist it to mean the total opposite of your opinion and try to convince everyone it was your opinion, how should this be dealt with?
How do you deal with someone who constantly changes your topics on every topic you post?
How do you deal with unintentional TOS rule breaking if you cant edit or delete or close?
Personally I have deleted any post that I discovered may have been deemed to have broken TOS, I have asked the person who was changing my views and convincing other thats what I said, to stop it on more than 1 occasion. I have closed derailing threads. I have asked them not to comment on any of my posts so that they would not change my point of view and I have asked them not to refer to me in any of his comments. In the end the only way I could stop him was not to see any of his comments and let him change my point of view to others so now people believe thats what I said. He is now on my ignore list and the solution seemed to be let him make up lies about me, which to be honest is not a very satisfactory solution. How would you have dealt with someone who blatently twisted your threads to make you a liar to others. Wait for a Mod to remove them, so that everyone could see the lies he was telling? I think no one likes to be called a liar over and over again. This was why the first thread was closed by myself. How else do you think this could be managed better in the future whats the solution?

Korpg wasn't calling you a liar, he taking the statements you posted and logically applying them, you didn't like someone calling you out on your nonsense so you closed the thread. You've been backpedaling so fast about that thread that I'm surprised you haven't broken the sound barrier yet.

When someone keeps telling you ,you believe in something that you dont believe in, and then saying its what you said despite you trying to clarify on more than one occassion your point of view and then they still insist its your point of view, its being called a liar. If it was a mistake of understanding then he could have said apologies I mistook what you meant but he continued to change what I had said saying it was what I believed in. I never back tracked on my own personal view I never made it personal, quoting on quotes to make them sound like he believed i was saying something else. When I said not to comment on posts that he didnt understand and that we both spoke a different language he continued . So what was the solution

Deleteing your post so people can't go and see if you are telling the truth or not makes only you look bad even if your telling the truth to why you deleted it, same if true for edits that come long after the time the post was first posted.

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Originally Posted by katz

Do you not think an operator choosing to close their thread is allowing them to chill down a topic that has become over heated and twisted from their original intentions.?

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If you meant to first thread you closed because you didn't like the outcome, so you closed it, then that isn't twisting it from it's original intention.

You had a bad idea, people told you that it was a bad idea, you closed the thread claiming that they are all against you. Later, you deleted your thread when the evidence started to come against you. That is not twisting your words, because that is what you did.

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When some members deliberately take your context and twist it to mean the total opposite of your opinion and try to convince everyone it was your opinion, how should this be dealt with?

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You had an idea that wasn't understood that well, so people (more than one) have told you what they got out of it. Yet, everyone agreed that the translated version was as close to the original as anyone could understand. You even understood the conversion and picked on one thing that you claimed you didn't say, but even the original version had what you said.

Its like this. I say the object in front of you is a stallion, you claim it is a horse. They are both the same thing! I am right, you are right, but you are getting offended because I called that object in front of you a stallion and say I'm twisting your words and I'm "slandering" you.

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How do you deal with someone who constantly changes your topics on every topic you post?

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You continue to say that! Nobody is "constantly changing" anything you say! We don't need to (until you delete your posts again) because it is exactly the same thing you said!

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How do you deal with unintentional TOS rule breaking if you cant edit or delete or close?

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Not saying it? Post reading yourself? Actually looking at your post and seeing if you mean what you say? You could try that instead of bashing the keyboard and hope words come out.

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Personally I have deleted any post that I discovered may have been deemed to have broken TOS, I have asked the person who was changing my views and convincing other thats what I said, to stop it on more than 1 occasion.

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You deleted your first 63 posts! ALL OF THEM! Did you really break the ToS 63 times...in a row? No!

Also, you asked me to stop quoting you. But you said it as such: Stop talking to me, and I'll stop talking to you. I did, but within minutes you went back to quote me and reply. When I called you out on that, you said that I, and I alone, was supposed to stop talking to you. That it is ok for you to talk to me because you deemed it to be "fair."

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I have closed derailing threads.

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That thread was on topic the entire time. You didn't like the answers, so you closed (and deleted) it.
[quote]I have asked them not to comment on any of my posts so that they would not change my point of view and I have asked them not to refer to me in any of his comments.[quote]
Half-true. You said for me to stop talking to you and for you to do the same. Which you didn't.

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In the end the only way I could stop him was not to see any of his comments and let him change my point of view to others so now people believe thats what I said.

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If I really was changing your point of view, would that really work? No. Instead, you are ignoring the main problem, which is you!

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He is now on my ignore list and the solution seemed to be let him make up lies about me, which to be honest is not a very satisfactory solution.

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How can anything I say be lies if there is proof backing me up, but most anything you said was deleted...by you...so you can save face and think that you never said any of the things you said?

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How would you have dealt with someone who blatently twisted your threads to make you a liar to others.

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A) If I really was twisting words around, wouldn't I be doing it to more than one person? Seems to me that the only person who is claiming that I have twisted anything is you.
B) Only person twisting any words is you, doing it to yourself, saying that you said one thing then later on saying that you never said that, you said something else (which is backpetaling, I wasn't the one who called you out on that either).

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Wait for a Mod to remove them, so that everyone could see the lies he was telling? I think no one likes to be called a liar over and over again. This was why the first thread was closed by myself. How else do you think this could be managed better in the future whats the solution?

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Wait, you want a mod to remove you? You are the only person here who is contradicting themselves (besides Dallas, but he has seemed to disappear).

Oh, and somebody quote me. In full. Please

...Korpg why should someone quote you just so you can by pass the fact he is ignoring you? I think you and katz should stop talking to and about each other from this point onward. Only thing continuing this would do is create unneeded drama to the threads... and I for one would not welcome that.

before you say it korpg or katz... im not saying you both on your own create drama... but when it comes to each other... you do.. so just stop.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

meh, fine.

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Good... now maybe this thread can get back on topic.

So how long should a thread go un-replied-in before the OP gets the option to delete it? 1 day? 1 week?

Probably 2 weeks.

There is no need for the OP to delete. If no one responds, it ends up getting pushed further back by more pressing topics. Let the mods do their job and handle the mess of deleting topics.

If no has repiled to it leave it open maybe someone will bump it and get it going again.

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

If no has repiled to it leave it open maybe someone will bump it and get it going again.

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This.

Why do old threads need to disappear? Maybe they have information in them that needs to be accessed at some point or is later proven false and needs correcting? Deleting them is just silly.

On the main topic, I agree. Locking your own threads is INCREDIBLY annoying.

People end up chalking all comments that are not agreeing with them to "TROLOLOLO" "GONNA LOCK CAUZE I THINK I"M RIGHT BUT NOT REALLY CUZ PPL HAVE SHOWN SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE AGAINST MY REALLY IDIOTIC IDEA BUT THEY TROLLOLOLOLS SO I GON LOCK UM UP." If people don't see that as a problem, I have no faith in these forums.

People believe I dont accept other peoples views that are valid arguements against my opinion. This is not the case. I am all for pro and con views. What has been challenging to me is the personalization of comments. If people start a "you said battle" I believe I have the right to say no you misunderstood what I said. The pro of closing threads that have become personal attacks, the heated battles dont take place, the con, other people cant add to the topic. Solution people to stop using the you said this and you said that but instead to apply how they feel to the topic that doesnt use anyone else as an example. Quote should be used for clarification purpose only. If everyone respected this there would be far fewer closed threads

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Originally Posted by katz

People believe I dont accept other peoples views that are valid arguements against my opinion. This is not the case. I am all for pro and con views. What has been challenging to me is the personalization of comments. If people start a "you said battle" I believe I have the right to say no you misunderstood what I said. The pro of closing threads that have become personal attacks, the heated battles dont take place, the con, other people cant add to the topic. Solution people to stop using the you said this and you said that but instead to apply how they feel to the topic that doesnt use anyone else as an example. Quote should be used for clarification purpose only. If everyone respected this there would be far fewer closed threads

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No, no, no, no, no.

First off, admins almost always close down "heated battles" and personal attacks before they get really juicy (bummer, I know). You have them to rely on if it gets too messy.

If you open a thread you open it for the entire internet to see and you should be responsible enough in creating threads that you can handle anyone. I agree that the twisting of words is unfortunate and really underhanded and cowardly. Rather than trying to understand what someone says, people pick and pick and pick and the irrelevant points just to get under your skin. However, you should either just ignore said comments or try to clarify what you meant, not close down the ENTIRE discussion because your feelings are getting hurt.

need to fix the trend of people reopening others closed threads

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Originally Posted by Jar

need to fix the trend of people reopening others closed threads

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It makes sense; the OP gets the last word in without a reply- again chalking it up to TROLOLOL. A lesser man would re open a thread just to show that the OPOP was wrong, and not let them have control over closing it.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

It makes sense; the OP gets the last word in without a reply- again chalking it up to TROLOLOL. A lesser man would re open a thread just to show that the OPOP was wrong, and not let them have control over closing it.

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i wasnt wrong and reopener didnt even really reply just opened up to flame

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Originally Posted by Jar

i wasnt wrong and reopener didnt even really reply just opened up to flame

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Edit: NVM I found it.

You were incredibly wrong in my opinion, and that's why you closed the thread.

You just shut off discussion, your thread is the shining example of "ouch my feelings hurt bye guys i'm signing off instead of arguing my case." Note that that's just the general feel I have from the reason most threads are closed.

I'll post my opinion on the matter over there.