Game/Job balance suggestions

I don't think GEO needs a nerf, I think Bard desperately needs a buff, cor does and frankly, I don't--and never have--played Red Mage. I can't say what the job needs, but I find it difficult to believe that the job is fine with the representation being so abysmal.

Like I've said before, the problem is that different RDMs want RDM to be buffed in different areas (healing, buffing, nuking, debuffing, melee, tankability) and some people want it to be a master of everything. Outside of the rare exception, noone seriously asks for PLD or WHM's offensive ability to be buffed, even though these are aspects of the job.

And like I said before, the problem with RDM is that broad buffs increase its capacity in everything, at little/no performance cost. An rdm/drk can melee at the frontline, buff, debuff, and jump to the backline simply by switching to a different macro set.

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]As far as your other argument:
Put bluntly, you don't wait for two hours shouting for a BLM when you need another nuker, you invite the RDM that's geared for it. You don't wait four hours for your second Geomancer, you bring your Red Mage along. A well geared Red Mage is the ultimate 'filler' job when all you REALLY need, is a warm body.

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I'll be honest: In the six months I've been back, I've played with two real red mages. I don't try to avoid them either, it's that the representation is that bad (at least on lowpop Valefor). Yes, I absolutely prefer an SCH or BLM over a red mage but I know the basic gear they have access to and know they should be capable nukers and while their debuffs are not necessary, they are useful.

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And for the Melee not being a part of your strategy, that's a gameplay issue, again, not a Red Mage issue. Stand Alone, Red Mage is in a very powerful place right now. It just happens to be in a spot outside the current meta. There's no real reason to gimick our way back into it. Just fix the problems plaguing the game as a whole, and dedicated Red Mages will find their way into groups, usually by association.

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On this, we agree completely. Unless the boss is magic-resistant to a large degree, it's just easier/safer/smarter/faster to bring mages most of the time, whatever the color.

Bringing a RDM is something you do when you already have your bases covered. Adding a 2nd GEO is almost always better than adding your 1st RDM. You might even bring a 3rd GEO. You don't really need Dia3 if you have a COR. Frazzle3 and Distract3 are nice but are almost always luxuries.

Also, no I wouldn't settle for a RDM if I needed a BLM. I'd argue that the RDM should consider leveling and JPing BLM as well for when the situation calls for it rather than forcing an oval peg into a circular hole.

Anyway Hyrist, you're espousing Inundation quite a bit, do you mind explaining how it works? What is the bonus? What is the recast? Is it hard to land? Is it practical to use?

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Originally Posted by detlef

Anyway Hyrist, you're espousing Inundation quite a bit, do you mind explaining how it works? What is the bonus? What is the recast? Is it hard to land? Is it practical to use?

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Put simply, it is a stacking form of Skillchain bonus that breaks the 30% Cap classes like Dancer has (The spell itself starts at 50% with 2 different weapon types in rotation.) and grows exponentially as you stack Skillchains. This multiplies with elemental weakness modifiers and Skillchain Damage bonuses.

Exact numbers on this thing is difficult because it seems to have multiple factors working with the damage. Some say it's static 50% but I've hit four-times damage on a 3 step skillchain with it reliably using trusts (double light). It defiantly needs more testing to verify, but the damage contribution on it is huge so long as you have your Melees actually working together instead of just WS spamming.

The benefit for this is twofold as teaming up skillchains builds skillchain damage, stacks with Innundation's growth and keeps magic burst windows open longer. The crux is the danger Melee suffers on higher tier mobs and the fact that MBs are still subject to resists and magic damage reduction (Frazzle however does help.), but I don't see how this would conflict with say, a Summoner/Samurai rotation like in the ToAU era. I haven't been able to test if it works on Scholar Skillchains yet (will be pulling a scholar for this testing soon.)

Oh, and the spell is unresitable. It lands as reliably as Dia or Bio, and I believe it has a 3 minute base duration. Things I will have to time and verify as I continue testing - however I am amazed that this spell has gone overlooked for so long. I'm guessing it's due to the BLU/No Melee Meta. The stacking bonus seems to rely upon differing weapon types.

Small link to FFXIAH thread showing a screenshot of stacked damage. http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/46...spell/#3042612

EDIT:

Ok, some spit-balling math on this from playing around with it seems that the base bonus is 50% multiplicative (x1.5), each step in a skillchain adds another 50% to the calculation. The problem is I'm trying to figure out where in the overall calculation this fits as other skillchain bonuses.

Click the spoiler below if you want to read some really rough math brainstorming.

For example, taking the screenshot I referenced above. It is a 3 Step Skillchain , giving a Theoretical Inundation value of 2.0, multiplied by the base value of a three WS Double Darkness (1.75) Which would put it at 3.5. This would work with the calculations I've been figuring out IF elemental weakness on Cailmh factors as a straight additive 1. This would bring it close to the approximate 4.6 skill-chain value ( ~.1 off ). I've seen similar numbers come out of Apex mobs, factoring for a .30 additive skill-chain damage up

Obviously this is a very rough theory that needs much more testing. I'll be working on getting more specifics once I figure out some of the factors that cause these larger damage spikes. The simple theory of 50% flat skillchain damage doesn't add up to some of these high numbers we're seeing.

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Originally Posted by OmnysValefor

Yes, it does stack, but when you're comparing -15% defense down vs -30%, the choice is obvious (when you're considering one job or the other) and since Dia II is -10%, it's really a choice of -5% additional from an RDM or -30% from an NQ GEO since the geo, whms, or blms can provide Dia II.

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If you bring a cor around it's not even a choice. Just have the cor double light shot Dia II and it will be better than your non light shotted Dia III

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Put simply, it is a stacking form of Skillchain bonus that breaks the 30% Cap classes like Dancer has (The spell itself starts at 50% with 2 different weapon types in rotation.) and grows exponentially as you stack Skillchains. This multiplies with elemental weakness modifiers and Skillchain Damage bonuses.

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That's not what exponential means....

Anyways I did some testing way back when it came out and it was a separate factor from everything else which is nice but the bonus for each step with a different weapon type decreased each step and pets definitely counted though never got to testing to see if different pets counted separately from each other. Seems to have been deleted so going to have to go by memory but I definitely remember 50% for 2 weapon type skillchain and then I believe was another 33% for next step if using another weapon type then 25% and so on. Haven't used it for awhile but I seem to remember some rdms I know saying something as broken about it awhile back. Like it would wear off after first skillchain.

Though it's all kind of moot because balancing weapon types and using often inferior ws while waiting and holding tp for the right moment is going to destroy your dps. Which is why no ones really cared to do do too much with it. Especially with the dmg cap still existing. If it wasn't for the dmg cap could probably pull of some rather cool stuff with it that might actually be worth the effort. Ya know like ending a 6 step/type level 3 skillchain with a 99999 ws which by my rough estimate assuming no special dmg takes and such on the mob and the pattern holds on the bonus almost 800k skillchain lol. But there's that cap and the fact we can get really high ws and skillchain dmg just by spamming the same 1-2 ws instead so....

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Originally Posted by Urmom

That's not what exponential means....

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So you got baited on semantics, good one there.

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Though it's all kind of moot because balancing weapon types and using often inferior ws while waiting and holding tp for the right moment is going to destroy your dps. Which is why no ones really cared to do do too much with it. Especially with the dmg cap still existing. If it wasn't for the dmg cap could probably pull of some rather cool stuff with it that might actually be worth the effort. Ya know like ending a 6 step/type level 3 skillchain with a 99999 ws which by my rough estimate assuming no special dmg takes and such on the mob and the pattern holds on the bonus almost 800k skillchain lol. But there's that cap and the fact we can get really high ws and skillchain dmg just by spamming the same 1-2 ws instead so....

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... so at minimum it's a 50% skillchain damage boost multiplicative before resists/bonuses, and grows from there depending on your coordination with melee. Meaning your heaviest hitting melee are likely to hit the damage cap and your lesser damage WSes that skillchain will hit harder. Knowing where to cut that off so you're using it as a boosting DPS is up to actually having someone who know's what they're doing organizing your skillchains.

You're also overplaying how many players can even hit max damage in skillchains. There's still a clear hierarchy of melee who are better suited to open skillchains than to close them. In a skillchain/MB meta it's free, unresistant damage that scales.

Only time when holding TP is a DPS loss is if you've got Melee sitting on 2000 + TP frequently and their WS hits hardest among the group. Usually in situations like that you have them participate as the closer for multiple openers who aren't building TP as frequently or don't have as high damage output with their WS.

If you're halfway decent at skillchaining you won't be ruining your DPS. You're also forgetting the other important factor here - keeping your skillchain window open continuously.

Let's not not forget that in the present design, giving bosses the abundance of tp they'd get from 2-3 different damage dealers (different weapon type) is a bad idea when it can be avoided. 1-2 DD can give you all the skillchains you need, just as frequently.

But then so can 2 SCH.

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Originally Posted by Immortta

Oh another thing they need to get rid of is the HP scaling. Sorry it just doesn't work and causes people to exclude others and certain jobs. I think it's just a big detriment to the game considering people can win these fights regardless of the HP increase, it just makes it more stressful and forces change in setup.

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When I measured how much 1 extra person added to the Zi'tah Behemoth it was like 50k HP. That's less than one nuke from one magic burst. No one even knows for sure how HP scaling works no one has tested it. It probably adds more to higher level NMs with more Max HP and it probably affects stats other than just HP. Even if it added 250k hp to a mob though, if the person you're bringing is another Death BLM that's less than 3 magic bursts, which is going to be much more than made up for over a 30 minute fight.

It's mostly used as an excuse by LS leaders to exclude people, when in fact the reason they exclude people is either social (they like their crew already) or gear and skill (you would make the fight harder instead of easier). Without HP scaling, how big a LS you have and how many people you can throw at something becomes more important than how good of a player and crew you have. Which is nothing I want to return to, ever. If you tell people that though, they usually get defensive and aggressive and it's much easier on them if you blame the game mechanics or SE than the players.

I should also add that without fail if all the players are adequately geared, having more blm in an endgame fight makes the fight go faster, not slower. 18 man clears are not only faster but more reliable, IF the players are all up to par and not dead weight. 4 BLM doing death is much faster than 2, even if it means having another GEO SCH and COR along to support them (though a 2nd GEO and SCH Probably there anyway in most setups).

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Originally Posted by OmnysValefor

Let's not not forget that in the present design, giving bosses the abundance of tp they'd get from 2-3 different damage dealers (different weapon type) is a bad idea when it can be avoided. 1-2 DD can give you all the skillchains you need, just as frequently.

But then so can 2 SCH.

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This boils back down to the whole "it's not Red Mage, it's a larger problem" argument I've been proving here, so nobody has forgotten anything. You'd also have to have two Melee that are effectively ovegeared for the content they are doing to get the result you're asking. And both the two Melee and 2 SCH situation have larger gaps in their MB window. Which, for Apex parties, dosen't matter, but for some of these larger fights, you'd be ending it a lot quicker if your nukers could simply chain nuke through a large MB window at full burst.

But, if you MUST remove Melee from the equation. I'll remind you that Inundation is a spell that deals no damage, is unresitable, and works with all skillchains regardless of the source. As I said, old ToAU tactics (which were also TP-phobic in nature.) still work just fine.

What it takes, in order to make good use for it, is teamwork. Inundation is free skillchain damage that rewards co-ordination and continual teamwork with a bigger bottom line. Probably why I like it so much. This Nuke heavy meta that's all stat abuse doesn't sit as well with me, and makes me feel like it'll get nerfed somehow in the future.

Corsair could use A+ Marksmanship or accuracy bonus traits, as well as increasing the potency of hunters roll, warlocks roll there quite low compared to geomancer variants or possibly a 3rd roll if you increase jobpoints gifts further, as well as raise the acc bonus gifts we gained to that of what other DDs recieve.

Geomancer Dagan would be cool and increase there club skill to the A's as well as add them to some better damage dealing clubs like Izcalli, geomancers Ra'3s i find are a disgusting huge waste of mp and could either increase the damage to blackmages ja counterpart or reduce the mp cost, Geomancer could also have the magicburst bonus trait to level 2-3. Before people call me out and say Cardinal Chant Already does this it does not break the 40% cap like the trait does.

Whitemages erase2(erases 2 magical enfeebles) as well as give them regen5 and A+ club skill and higher acc bonus gifts, mabey make divine magic alot stronger nukewise?

Redmage i think should redo the group 1 merits, Just make magic accuracy 1 catagory (+3maacc) Add Enhancing magic effect +1(applies to haste regen refresh bars gains temper and enspell and possibly future enhances) to group 1s as well as Enfeebling Effect +1 (so we could get 20% dia3 defense downs and increase potency of all other enfeebles). If you cant do proposed group 1 changes mabey put the group2 spells on scrolls make a catagory for dia and bio effect +1 phalanx effect +1 and haste effect +1. You raised pup blu and dancers main combat skills to A+ over the years i dont see why we cant have A- in sword or dagger or give us some accurcy bonus traits. Could also give Redmage A+ Enhancing magic skill and make spells break the 500 skill cap for more potency (I'm looking at you phalanx and barspells) Redmage needs a magic defense - enfeeble bad as well as add to Inundation to either increase magic burst damage or reduce the damage reduction for multiple magic bursts done in a skillchain. More enhances i would like to see would be Bravery (Add accuracy/att to you or party member) and Faith (Magic Attack/Acc boost to you or party member) Enspell 2s should work on multi attacks and give half the acc bonus of enlight and half the attackbonus of endark based on enhancing magic, or give us enlight 1 endark1. Blink2 for Red and white. Would be fun to have Dreadspikes on Redmage. Get rid of shieldmastery and our divine skill to make room for other traits i may suggest us unless you wanna throw Reprisal/enlight our way. Gain/Boost spells need to break 500 enhancing skill cap to further raise the stats past 25. Introduce the magic Accurcy bonus traits to Rdm Geo Sch Blm Brd Nin Whm Drk to varieing degrees.(Dont see why Blumage is the only job who gets this) We got Regen 1 at lvl 21 same lvl as Whitemage yet we still only have Regen2 at level 76 when they got it at 44, we should have up to regen 4. Spontaneity as well as divine seal and elemental seal should be 5 min recasts(or lower) not 10. Another way to add enhancing magic effect +5 and enfeebling effect +5 would be to A put it on a ring like Corsairs Barataria Ring or B put it on Redmages mythic sword. As for job gifts adjustments again adjust the acc bonus gifts we and whitemage receive and give us cure 5 when we hit 100 JobPoints to unlock tier5 nukes. Could add Rdm to herculean gear or Adhemar Attire Set.

Scholar Let Adloquium Scale with skill to get 1-3 tp a tick. Increase schs magic burst trait to level 4 (its 3 atm) In the future if you add more gifts with Job Points let them get tier6 nukes under Addendum: Black, Addendum: White give us access to cure5 mabey Esuna as well, or put storm2s or helix on scroll and make the 1200 job gift the addendum upgrade. At level 49 should give sub schs 3 strategems and 1 minute and 20 seconds recharges. Accension should work on any enhancing spell period. I dont see why they dont want a scholar being able to accension that haste into a ga or that redmage accensioning that haste2/temper2/refresh3

Alot of certain job abilities are locked out when subbed. Examples are Yonin Innin from sub nin, Afflatus Solace Afflatus Misery from whitemage, Velocity Shot from ranger yet you'll give everyone access to convert from Redmage? This is silly and should be corrected.

Ninja take away the direction requirments from yonin and innin, if im tanking and the monsters still facing me and i wanna boost my magic burst damage with that innin nuke i should have the freedom to. More ninjitsu Jubaku ni and Kakka ni(15 storetp base) and make Kakka ichi lvl 49 Give ninja a foil equivalent ninjitsu that would solve enmity issues if you chose to tank. Take all the San Nukes and put them on a scrolls, combine all the group 1 nuke effects into one catagory, add Daken effect +1 as a new group 1 another group one could be kakka effect +1(more storetp) Group2 combine all the ninja nuke buffs into one category, next new group2 would be yonin effect +1 and 2nd would be innin effect +1. Critical attack bonus trait we should have lvl 2-3. Could Adjust Daken to allow it to work with Chakarams, boomerangs pebbles so jobs like dancer/thief can throw Chakarams , Boomerangs or rocks while autoattacking, or make some all job shurikens.

Thief Mug Steal Despoil lower there recasts(2-3mins), Conspirator Lower the recast or double duration, Make Hide erase all Enmity on thf regardless what your fighting, Accomplice should be 2-3 min recast not 5 Group 1 merits sneak attack and triple attack should be combined into one catagory for -2 secs each. Bring back Mercy Stroke ftp to 6:0 and Mandalic Stab Ftp to 5:0 add 1 for all 1000 tp increase increments Exenerator could use a buff as well its pretty bad. If the new 2hander and hand to hand weapon buff is that strong increase rudras ftp by 1 or .50 for each 1000 tp.

Dancer Update steps to be like pup manuvers no job ability delay when using them.

Puppetmaster id like to set 16 attachments vs 12 mabey via more pup quests or raise elemental capacity by another 1-2 via quests or more future gifts. I'll trade my evasion bonus lvl 4 for accurcy bonus lvl 4 anyday.

Monk Crit att bonus lvl 2-3



Essentially i think all jas that are 5min should be reduced to 3-4 same with most 10 min abillities should be halfed, or if you masterd your job all main job ability recast is reduced by 25 %

Sorry if i didn't list any other additions for other jobs as i dont really know what other dds need outside of a huge buff to even compete with Bluemages.

Dont forget to leave a like if you agree with any of my suggestions, its the only way these might even possibly be looked at