Your actions are making the entire FFXI community suffer

It's already been proven that you don't need 18 man parties to kill every single thing in game. And had people been more open to freely invite other people without discrimination, others might learn to use other jobs freely and learn different things.


Our community lacks people willing to set good examples to others so everyone can participate and enjoy the game rather than be turned down for not having what's needed to accomplish your greedy goal set to help you advance faster than others.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

Have you tried other party setups with an open mind? Rather than see defeat did you go back and learn from your mistakes and try other things? Or are you basing your party setups with what you "Know only works"?

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Me? Of course. I'm an obssessive THF. I inject my THF into tons of places where it doesn't belong ;). But I do not kid myself into thinking I'm putting out anywhere near the DD of an actual DD. And I am a better THF than 95% of the ones you will ever see.

But...some leaders like to think that it's worth THing the mobs for airlixirs...so thats something I guess?

The issue is not that people "just don't know what's good because they never tried it." This game is 11 years old.

The issue with job discrimination is that theres a SERIOUS imbalance of power among jobs. And the dev team refuses to fix that issue.

The issue is that the dev team creates crazy events with silly time restrictions that promote optimal setup formation to succeed.

None of this is the fault of the player base. These are all the result of design flaws.

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Originally Posted by Nebo

Me? Of course. I'm an obssessive THF. I inject my THF into tons of places where it doesn't belong ;). But I do not kid myself into thinking I'm putting out anywhere near the DD of an actual DD. And I am a better THF than 95% of the ones you will ever see.

But...some leaders like to think that it's worth THing the mobs for airlixirs...so thats something I guess?

The issue is not that people "just don't know what's good because they never tried it." This game is 11 years old.

The issue with job discrimination is that theres a SERIOUS imbalance of power among jobs. And the dev team refuses to fix that issue.

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Oh really now? Ive done ADL with my JP LS with so many different jobs from having PLD DRK THF DRG RDM WHM SCH BRD BST and every other job that's out there and no matter what build we experiment with, the goal can be accomplished regardless.

That's the problem, people are only fixed on how much plasm they can earn and how many items they can get as quick as possible rather than just enjoy the game with others and put people first above material items.

You can blame it on design flaws but its people who make the experiance worthwhile.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

Oh really now? Ive done ADL with my JP LS with so many different jobs from having PLD DRK THF DRG RDM WHM SCH BRD BST and every other job that's out there and no matter what build we experiment with, the goal can be accomplished regardless.

That's the problem, people are only fixed on how much plasm they can earn and how many items they can get as quick as possible rather than just enjoy the game with others and put people first above items.

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If the game had an autogrouping function, and with a couple of job tweaks here and there, I could see this happening on the regular.

But most people aren't leaders, don't know how to from groups for ADL, are scared to form groups for ADL. And there is that HUGE barrier in their way that is the horrible grouping mechanics of FFXI.

Is it wrong that there are people that find getting the most plasm per run to be the most fun? Is it wrong that people don't find it fun to play the way your LS does?

Or is it wrong that the game does not support group forming for people that are not cut out to be leaders but still want to try content and have fun/meet people, regardless of how many times they lose?

The problem is that the game's current system depends on leaders that have generally done the content so much that they are fixed on doing it the most efficient way they know how.

The reality is that most players are not cut out to be leaders and this current system excludes them.

That is not the fault of the playerbase. That is a design flaw.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...-Status-Update

This shows me these people did not discrimate others based on job and tried a different approach allowing them to accomplish a very high goal of winning the objective. If they can do it, so can everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Nebo

If the game had an autogrouping function, and with a couple of job tweaks here and there, I could see this happening on the regular.

But most people aren't leaders, don't know how to from groups for ADL, are scared to form groups for ADL. And there is that HUGE barrier in their way that is the horrible grouping mechanics of FFXI.

The problem is that the game depends on leaders that have generally done the content so much that they are fixed on doing it the most efficient way they know how.

The reality is that most players are not cut out to be leaders and this current system excludes them. That is not the fault of the playerbase. That is a design flaw.

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You are constantly blaming design flaw for people's actions. If that's the case then all games are flawed. No matter what team you create to fight any monster, it's the group of people who are killing it, not the design flaw.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...-Status-Update

This shows me these people did not discrimate others based on job and tried a different approach allowing them to accomplish a very high goal of winning the objective. If they can do it, so can everyone else.

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A: there were 4 jobs listed in that post.

B: ONLY relic RNGs are used for boss fights. No Relic = No RNG. DRG is only there for agnon. If no agnon, DRG would not be used. GEO and SCH are support jobs that are always goign to have a slot.

Very inclusive :rolleyes:

But to respond to your point, "everyone else" cannot beat delve bosses. They were not designed nor intented to be beaten by everyone.

Delve bosses are a prime example of the devs fueling job exclusion. It is content that doesn't really allow for bringing weaker jobs because you are also on a time limit.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

That's the problem, people are only fixed on how much plasm they can earn and how many items they can get as quick as possible rather than just enjoy the game with others and put people first above material items.

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That's what some people find to be enjoyable for them. The real problem is plasm farming isn't designed to be efficient without key jobs. That's a developer issue and thus far has been intentional design.

Shout fracture farming on average nets around 4k and 8-10 airlixirs. I've been on 8-10k plasm runs but I'd be a liar if I said that was even remotely an average for most shout groups.

In contrast a group of at least a decent WHM/PLD/SCH/RDM, 4 good DDs(pre SoA good),and a healer could farm Volatile Matamata in about 8 minutes~. That's 5-6 fights in the same 45 minutes, or 2,500-3,000 plasm and a guaranteed 30-36 Airlixir (1-2 from each fight can be a +1 so 5-12 could be replaced by a +1). Now this would be a viable way to farm plasm if it wasn't for the 1 ??? spawn point meaning the moment competition shows up your potential plummets.

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Originally Posted by Nebo

Everyone else cannot beat delve bosses. They were not designed nor intented to be beaten by everyone.

And delve bosses are the prime example of the devs fueling job exclusion. It is content that doesn't really allow for bringing weaker jobs because you are also on a time limit.

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And you know this as 100% fact? So you've gone out and tried every possible party setup with every person with the best high end gear and are able to come to the conclusion that you know this is 100% fact.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

That's what some people find to be enjoyable for them. The real problem is plasm farming isn't designed to be efficient without key jobs. That's a developer issue and thus far has been intentional design.

Shout fracture farming on average nets around 4k and 8-10 airlixirs. I've been on 8-10k plasm runs but I'd be a liar if I said that was even remotely an average for most shout groups.

In contrast a group of at least a decent WHM/PLD/SCH/RDM, 4 good DDs(pre SoA good),and a healer could farm Volatile Matamata in about 8 minutes~. That's 5-6 fights in the same 45 minutes, or 2,500-3,000 plasm and a guaranteed 30-36 Airlixir (1-2 from each fight can be a +1 so 5-12 could be replaced by a +1). Now this would be a viable way to farm plasm if it wasn't for the 1 ??? spawn point meaning the moment competition shows up your potential plummets.

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Again this is the perfect example. You are only focusing on how much plasm and items can be obtained in the time limit rather putting people first and caring about enjoying the time playing with others and learning new things with different people.

Who cares if you can earn 1k, 5k, 9k plasm or how many elixirs drop. Regardless of how many times you do a delve plasm party. You and everyone else will earn plasm regardless.

Now what everyone is too heavily focused on is that they want the best as fast a possible and then after getting that complain there's nothing else out there to do therefore some end up sitting in town all day bored or move on to not playing the game anymore because they reached their personal goals too fast.

Again this basing on self gain and instead of putting others first rather than how you can get what you wanted, this is how the entire game is effected rather than just delve or just VW or any other event.

Some argue RDM is useless in VW but ignore the fact that RDM can still cover T2-4 and helix with SCH sub while also having blind, poison and Dispel for other procs.

Some people ignore that Summoner can provide group healing, walk speed, and all stat buffs with Fenrir. And perfect defense with Alex.

Some ignore that BLM could be used for Meteor in some of the gaming strategies.

The jobs are there, the skills are there, but people ignore these facts all because they are only focused on items and materials rather than take a closer look.