Weaponskills That Need Most Refinement

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Originally Posted by saevel

WTF this makes no sense. JR is as powerful as / nearly as (depending on gear and situation) LS for physical ranged WS. WF is highly reliant on some sort of +Fire Damage buff typically seen inside abyssea or voidwatch, it's also magic damage so favors COR by far. Ranged attacks are not "AGI Based", AGI only effects ranged accuracy and RNG has an A+ skill along with five accuracy bonus traits for a total of +60. If anything Ranged Attacks are "STR based" as they get double the fSTR bonus that melees get. The only reason you see more Marks Rangers is that they have more options (Anni / Arma) where as Gandiva is JR spam RNG only, both deal the same amount of damage but Marks has the choice of switching to magic or reduced-hate damage.

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Actually, your post makes no sense. JR and LS = the same damage? Are you kidding me? The reason you see more marks RNG is because guns do better damage. Gandiva is for RNGs who want to play it cheap. Not to mention the bow is utterly useless on things like odin.

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

Which could be made into 100% TP and just drop the other 2 AMs. Their 'diversity' is what most people call bad or inferior. Relic AMs are mostly a joke, mythic AMs exist to get to 300% so that you can spam higher efficiency WSs at 100% over and over, and Empy just needs to be given a static value.

No more AM issue.
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No thank you
I can't believe you'd even suggest this.

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Originally Posted by tyrantsyn

No thank you
I can't believe you'd even suggest this.

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Read the next sentence where i say i dont want anything like that, please.

I saw that actually, but after reading what you had to say. That line stuck out the most to me, and it was just what I dwell on. Even tho you recanted it in the next paragraph.

You know I fear what is said around here sometimes. That the Dev's will take the Family Guy impression about thing. Youknow if one person complains = 10,000 people hate it.

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Originally Posted by saevel

WTF this makes no sense. JR is as powerful as / nearly as (depending on gear and situation) LS for physical ranged WS. WF is highly reliant on some sort of +Fire Damage buff typically seen inside abyssea or voidwatch, it's also magic damage so favors COR by far. Ranged attacks are not "AGI Based", AGI only effects ranged accuracy and RNG has an A+ skill along with five accuracy bonus traits for a total of +60. If anything Ranged Attacks are "STR based" as they get double the fSTR bonus that melees get. The only reason you see more Marks Rangers is that they have more options (Anni / Arma) where as Gandiva is JR spam RNG only, both deal the same amount of damage but Marks has the choice of switching to magic or reduced-hate damage.

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You don't know shit about RNG do you?

JR blows, it should be an AGI based WS. SE really screwed the pooch with the DEX mod.

I do love that part where he suggested doing away with AM1 and AM2, making AM3 activate at 100% tp. Make it happen Matsui.

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Originally Posted by Taint2

You don't know shit about RNG do you?

JR blows, it should be an AGI based WS. SE really screwed the pooch with the DEX mod.

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The math between them has them equal, though there is a big ??? about whether RA crits are dDEX or not. So far as we know AGI only adds ranged accuracy. Assuming their dDEX based similar to melee critical hit rate has JR equal to LS most of the times and sometimes ahead / behind depending on if the target has critical hit evasion BS (Mul).

JR is 1.75 (1.95) per hit with three hits for a total of 5.85 fTP @ 60% DEX WSC and can crit. Though ranged crits are inferior to melee crits as their only a 25% damage bonus they still count and people tend to forget they exist far too often.

LS is 2.0 fTP (2.2) per hit with two hits for a total of 4.2 fTP (moonshade doesn't seem to be worth it as little scaling as it does) @100% AGI.

JR has a fTP and crit advantage, LS has a WSC and better base weapon DMG. Though the other thing to take into account is fSTR on ranged attacks is 2:1 rather then 4:1 making +STR incredibly important until you hit fSTR cap.

Crit rate without gear would be
Base: 5
Merits: 5
Fencer: 5
WS base: 15

Gear should be higher with Athos Body + Augmented Byakkos giving a +9% crit damage. You'll want Athos's gloves for an additional +3% crit rate along with the STR and DEX. dDEX should be capped for another 15% crit rate. Maybe another piece or two but generally your now at 45~50% crit rate and should see a crit on every WS, which is why it's important to actually take that into account rather then completely disregarding it. My last point on JR is that too many players overlook STR in favor for DEX which is generally a mistake. 1 DEX is +0.51 base DMG, 1 STR is +0.5 base DMG (until fSTR cap) so their very similar until you hit fSTR cap and WS sets should be somewhat balanced between the two. Assuming target NM's have 110~120 VIT/AGI (generic target) the player should be looking at 160~170 DEX and STR in their WS setup with anymore going towards DEX.

So I'll say again, why in the hell would you want JR to be AGI based when AGI does nothing but ranged accuracy on a job that has five accuracy bonus's traits with an A rated skill?


Now the real reason so many go with marks is that there is no incentive to go with archery. With LS and JR being so dead event and marks offering additional benefits like hate free damage and magic damage (if you play COR) there is no reason a marks RNG would ever make a Gandiva and good reasons for an Archery RNG to make a Anni / Arma. Other then Archery taking less of a damage hit from standing outside of NM AoE range (a benefit of RNG) and having cheaper ammo costs, though lets be honest Marks RNG's don't shoot in Adam bullets they save them for WS.

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Originally Posted by Taint2

You don't know shit about RNG do you?

JR blows, it should be an AGI based WS. SE really screwed the pooch with the DEX mod.

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I may be wrong since I don't have RNG, but I'm under the impression that LS is good when you're buffed, and JR is good when you're not. So if you're being tossed into mage pt, pop champion, fighting higher def NMs, wouldn't JR pull ahead?(If both weapons at lv 99)

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Originally Posted by saevel

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LOL you have no idea how RNG works.

AGI effects RA crit rate. DEX does not. Its not a big ??? its a know fact and has been tested and proven. It also does not scale like melee crits.

Ranged Crits are just a 25% damage multiplier (without Dead Aim, which doesn't apply to WSs), while other melee jobs get something more like a 2x damage multiplier from crits against high defense/level enemies. The defense of the enemy has no bearing at all on the value of Ranged Crits.

AGI has been shown to increase ranged critical hit rate (which is why Jishnu's should have been an AGI mod). However, the amounts of AGI that you need to do this are astronomical. You're probably going to pull a 10-12% base ranged crit rate against most high level stuff you fight. Jishnu's innate crit rate boost has not been quantified, though it should be pretty easy to do.

Using these sets:
127 Base damage (Adaman Bullet) + 76 Base Damage (Annihilator Level 99) = 203 base damage before WSC
Last Stand : http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/283385 (+46 STR, +94 AGI, +62 RAtk)
- 110 VIT enemy on RNG/WAR with an RCB and assuming perfect TPing and augments: 1711 Base Damage*fTP

51 Base damage (Gargouille Arrow) + 117 Base Damage (Gandiva Level 99) = 168 base damage before WSC
Jishnu's Radiance : http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/283384 (+77 DEX, +67 STR, +36 RAtk)
- 110 VIT enemy on RNG/WAR with an RCB and assuming a 10% base crit rate boost from Jishnu's and 5% from Fencer with perfect augments: 1822 Base Damage*fTP with crits

Things unaccounted for:
* Annihilator has more RAtk, RAcc, and access to a useful aftermath. If the Velocity Shot enhancements work on WS (unknown then it also has that)
* Jishnu's base crit rate is unknown. I assumed 10%.
* My sets are very likely non-ideal. The question is whether they're more non-ideal for one WS than the other.

Edit: For the record, Rancorous Mantle is a minor improvement over Vigilance Mantle +1, if it is even better at all.