Turialon's Complain about the unsocial EMPY upgrades

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Originally Posted by Mirabelle

I think you have a strange misconception that "time-consuming" equals "difficult". None of the mobs that drop HMP are difficult. But getting 1500 drops from them takes forever. They've not introduced challenge to the game with this trial. They've introduced a mind-numbing repetitive time sink. It's not entertaining and like Maats cap in the old days, having a 95 Empy just means you spend too much time playing the game not that you are necessarily elite.

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Very true. Qilin is a prime example of claimed difficulty that is missing imo. I think of Qilin as probably the easiest VWNM there is in terms of spamming, normally he very rarely gets to do much past the 1st 10~15 seconds, its rather easy, the problem is the drops, not that drops are hard, the fight itself is easy to do again and again, the problem is the rewards have low drop rates especially with the number required.

As I have said before, Emps required 50~75 for the previous stages, and no matter what, so long as you won the fight you were given at least 1, with the possibility of an extra, of the items needed. Plates do no such thing, not even remotely close. Plates you happen to see probably 1 for every 2 to 3 kills at best on average, which by normal numbers actually wouldn't be to bad, you would end up going from 38~75 fights, up to about 200~250 fights at most, which isn't nearly as bad. However the problem is that the number went up along with the uncertainty, now it became 1500 plates, that number jumped by 20 times, and the rate of drops is much lower. In fact, it would take about 4500 Kaggen with my average drops off of T3 Jeuno, to get a lv95 Emp, even if you have an Alliance of friends giving you their plates, thats still an average of 250 fights, which is 4 times the maximum you would need if you did a lv90 Emp, most of the time in which your friends or ls members were also rewarded for helping with +2s or the like, which T3 Jeuno does not drop, instead they drop an extremely rare body they may not get in the 250 fights even.

That may seem like alot of BS but from my experience its the case, its not "hard" to make a lv95 Emp, its outrageous on how it jumps in more than 1 way, it went from 75 items, you always get 1 of, to 1500 items, you get 1 of every 3 kills on average. Now some may say that you should do Qilin, Kaggen is a bad example, but Qilin is a mass of luck from both the pouches and the drops, so I don't want to count those in, not to mention if I remember correctly, lv95 Emps were put out with T3 Jeuno NMs, and T3 Zilart were later added.

Surprised nobody's mentioned the new expansion during this. Good luck getting the people to spam Qilin for the 400th time when there's an entirely new continent to explore, new jobs to level etc. 1,500 is way too much, with piss-poor drop rates.

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Originally Posted by Connavarr

Surprised nobody's mentioned the new expansion during this. Good luck getting the people to spam Qilin for the 400th time when there's an entirely new continent to explore, new jobs to level etc. 1,500 is way too much, with piss-poor drop rates.

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Well the thing is we still don't know for sure they wont add new ways with it to get these plates. Admittedly it is not likely but its possible, Ancient Currency comes from Campaign, Alexandrites come from Neo-Nyzul Isle, they are not super awesome ways, but they exist. But its true, that very much is a problem, unless the expansion sucks in every possible way, and everyone goes running back to VW, its likely going to cause problems.

If the expansion sucks, people won't be running back to VW. They'll be switching games.

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Originally Posted by Connavarr

If the expansion sucks, people won't be running back to VW. They'll be switching games.

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Alot, yes, not all, but point was that its not brought up for hopes that we will be seeing more ways to obtain plates. If not, then after some time lv95~99 Emps will become almost as bad (if not potentially as bad or worse) than Mythics are to make, because you will never get the Alliances together for VW after the new expansion is where everyone is.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Alot, yes, not all, but point was that its not brought up for hopes that we will be seeing more ways to obtain plates. If not, then after some time lv95~99 Emps will become almost as bad (if not potentially as bad or worse) than Mythics are to make, because you will never get the Alliances together for VW after the new expansion is where everyone is.

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Honestly? I expect HMP's to be worse then Alexandrite's after Adoulin, simply because you can't solo(read: dual-box) VW like you can Salvage. If things don't change, expect price spike when Adoulin kicks off, and the supply to drop.

SE needs to adjust this. I have no faith whatsoever there will be HMP's in Adoulin.

Yes I expect them to be much worse than right now, gear in SoA will likely be better than it is in VW, meaning that the gear in VW will lose value. If it loses value then it will not be done for gear, and only plates alone, which is all that will fuel it. We see how well that works with Salvage though don't we? Depending on what all SoA brings to the table and how many people stop doing older content it could very easily be enough to drive VW into the ground, I already see fewer shouts for VW a day on Phoenix, SoA will mean even less I'm sure. I am not saying by any means that it will be as bad as a Mythic, but it could be, the high number required and the small number of supply, same problem Mythics suffer from, and I see it coming to HMPs when SoA hits unless they make another way to get them.

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Originally Posted by Connavarr

If the expansion sucks, people won't be running back to VW. They'll be switching games.

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Speaking of conspiracy, do you guys ever wonder why the new expansion will be released around the same time as FF14 being rebooted - which is also similar time frame when Abyssea was introduced and FF14 originally launched in 2010. I think the new expansion could go two ways, they probably will not put that many contents at start, just enough to keep people entertained for a good 3-5 months at most. Assuming that FF14 reboot will be a massive success, they probably will introduce more old school content for FF11 that favor select fews and will try to bring back "challenging very hard unattainable" content to further drive the rest of the population to FF14 (also assuming the new version will be catered to solo players and have casual friendly attitude). If FF14 end up to not find enough subscribers and possibly fail to gain traction... then they probably will release abyssea blockbuster version 2 on the SoA contents to keep the current players happy and getting addicted for awhile, though most of the drops are probably going to be luck based so that most people will have to grind this over and over.

I have a feeling all these crazy requirement with the magian trials is their safety net, should FF14 fail once more, at least the majority of FF11 players already invested so much more to drop out completely from the game and can be hooked for a little longer with SoA. Since SoA is a brand new expansion (and not add ons like Abyssea) they can justify stretching the content to last a minimum of 3 years to 6 years (if they are feeling lazy).

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Originally Posted by Mirabelle

Yes its always best to dishearten a good percentage of your player base. Or at least force them to do mindless gil making tasks over and over again to get something in this game. Shows lots of creativity and imagination.

As a casual player averaging 20h a week tops on this game, it will take years to achieve one empy 99 even if I do nothing else but spam dynamis and buy HMP. Where is the fun in that? I like doing different tasks. A bit of dynamis, a bit of abyssea, a bit of VW, some levelling new jobs, some limbus. If I do that it would take decades to get to 1500 HMP.

You can say that people are getting it done, but the only people I see completing these weapons are the 24/7 folks that just do dynamis/VW spam around the clock. Or they are part of ADL/NNI merc groups with tons of gil. The regular folks aren't getting this done at a great rate.

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I'm also a causal player that plays 20~25ish hours a week, finished 1500 hmp in about 3.5~4 months. I can't say I'm fast compare with hardcore, but it isn't anything that's zomg so bad and certainly doesn't take 1 year(I'd say 4~5 months for ppl playing 2~3 hours a day). Is it boring to gil grind? Maybe. But so does pretty much every other event in this game, just grind.

Now that I'm done with empy, besides legion, more gil grind to buy Mythic or hex-1 items, there are really nothing else to do either.

I mean, I don't even know the point of this thread. Ok, SE make empy 99 obtainable by spamming VW, it's just more VW grind instead of dyna grind, which, by this point of time, majority of player already been spamming hundred and hundred of them and not all that more fun than dyna grind either. SE makes empy 99 only need 100 plates, and everyone finish them in 1 week, what next when you finish it? Sit in Jeuno and afk cuz you have nothing to do? Or quit the game?

If someone feel lv 99 is impossible, just don't do it, it's not like someone put a gun in your head force you to do a pixel item. If you really really want it but only have 20hr a week of play time, just do it slowly and one day it will be yours. But it's not really anyone's problem if you just want to rush and get it done in 1 week. Trust me, next thing you will complain is this game lacks content when you finish all gears so fast and you're quitting.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

It'd be nice if they didn't screw over everyone else in the process though.

What they should do is create a new set of weapons offered by the Smilebringers that require some ungodly number of items from some nigh-invulnerable NMs scattered in the hardest to reach areas of Vana'diel that only spawn once a month each. These weapons could be game-breakingly powerful, and produce a constant snowflake effect around the player.

Then they can leave the rest of us to have obtainable, max level legendary-class weapons since there would be a superior alternative for the snowflake status seekers.

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They've already done it, it's called afterglow.

And what's wrong with empy 99 cost as much as a relic, empy is functionable at 85~90, which is certainly doable by causals. Lv 99 isn't zomg awesome difference too, so why complain about how long it takes to 99 when you can just stick with 90? It's not like this game is PvP and if you don't have a lv 99 empy you'll never win or something.

Honestly 250~500 sounds more appropriate, at least the number jump wouldn't be 20 times as much, only about 4~7 times, which seems alot better. Also it means the plate number would be obtainable in roughly 45~90 Kaggens so long as everyone in the Alliance gives 1 person the plates and it is a full Alliance. Mind you a party doing an Abyssea NM for lv90 takes 38~75, lv80 or 85 takes 25~50 kills, so if the Alliance is giving all plates to a single member then it seems like a reasonable jump to go up to about 45~90 kills.