[dev1102] So what is the Ultimate Spell for RDM?

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

SE said they wouldn't add stances or spells that buff one aspect of magic and reduce physical abilities or vice versa. They also stated they wouldn't want to add abilities or spells that add mutually exclusive enhancements to either physical or magic. SCH is the class that chooses between white or black magic speciality. RDM, SE said doesn't choose between white and black magic or physical, RDM was supposed to be able to access all of it simultaneously albeit weaker. So SCH gets stronger WHM spells and BLM spells because they have almost no physical prowess. Since RDM has better physical capabilities, we have weakened spells or whatever. So to sum up, SE would never implement a stance where a RDM's abilities in one aspect get boosted at the cost of another(i.e like dark arts/light arts/hasso-type abilities where Phys+/Magic- or Magic+/Phys-)

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My idea does improve only one aspect at a time, but doesn't gimp another. So Faith wouldn't make melee worse, the spells are no different to Temper or enspells which are strictly melee buffs, which SE already gave to RDM. These spells fall in line strictly with RDM without potentially putting them at OP in all areas.

However, these become less if SE actually put RDM back on the gear it was on instead of putting BLU on it when historically BLU wear only cloth armour whereas RDM equipped both cloth and light armour.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Two spells do not a specialize make, which has been my point the entire time. We are not and never were a buffing job, we had two spells, one that restores a precious commodity at the time (MP) and the other that made melee's fight better and exponentially scaled with other buffs. That's it, nothing else, Cure IV is only enough in low damage merit parties on anything of HNM status it's just not enough, never has been, and this fact become painfully clear after level 80.

We're not invited for enfeebling because SE has gimped the crap out of enfeebling magic and refused to introduce new spells that are actually functional. Break is just a short duration earth based sleep and about as useful, addle is nerfed on HNMs, and that's it. I've said it many times and I'll keep saying it, SE needs to give us newer enfeebles that actually do something. Lower the monsters stats, lower it's TP gain, lower it's offensive damage potential and such. Give us a move that temporarily locks out the target's TP moves for a short period of time, make the target gain immense resistance after the first use that slowly tapers off over 5min.

When I state self buffing I'm referring to the ability to alter our stats to optimize for one role over another. Temper is +5~20% DA not 20% static, the RDM needs a 500 skill build and I've met very few who have, maybe it'll increase who knows. We need other spells similar to Temper that give us +FC, +Cure Pot, +MAB, ect. They should overwrite each other so as not to be overpowering. This would allow a RDM to adjust and tailor their stats to the specific role their performing.

And seriously, if you want +15~25 of a stat ask the WHM or the BRD, good luck.

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Yes two spells doesn't make us specialized as support, but our highest rated magic skills of enfeebling and enahcning, which we happen to have the highest of both for any job, does say we should be specialized support. The problem was it was poorly implimented, mainly because all our enfeebs came from another job plus the issue with enfeebs on nms anyhow and our enhancing was self buff only which doesn't really do anything to benifit a group setting.

If we had a spell to buff our selves before we do anything to make it more effecient than we are just another form of a sch and it slows us down from being able to quickly add support to where its needed. Temper was nice and all but again most complained about it not being able to cast it on others. If anything rdm should get a passive ability that allows self buffs to be applied to others around us, if that was the cast then DD would never complain about the rdm on front lines because they are getting buffed at the same time. As for us buffing taking over brd non of our self buffs are truly brd song replacements. As for enfeebling, even this thread was started on gaining an ultimate enfeeb that no one else has, well in that sense alone wouldn't that break the mold of us only borrowing spells from other jobs, so why is it ok to break the mold by gaining new spells and abilities that others dont have but not ok doing so in a manner that gives us a real role in the group. Just because we are given a role won't mean we wont be able to do other functions allowing us to stay a hybrid job, but one with a purpose which we lack.

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

SE said they wouldn't add stances or spells that buff one aspect of magic and reduce physical abilities or vice versa. They also stated they wouldn't want to add abilities or spells that add mutually exclusive enhancements to either physical or magic. SCH is the class that chooses between white or black magic speciality. RDM, SE said doesn't choose between white and black magic or physical, RDM was supposed to be able to access all of it simultaneously albeit weaker. So SCH gets stronger WHM spells and BLM spells because they have almost no physical prowess. Since RDM has better physical capabilities, we have weakened spells or whatever. So to sum up, SE would never implement a stance where a RDM's abilities in one aspect get boosted at the cost of another(i.e like dark arts/light arts/hasso-type abilities where Phys+/Magic- or Magic+/Phys-)

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Actually they said they wouldn't create stances, they said nothing about self buffs. Temper is by definition a physical only buff, same as Gain-INT vs Gain-DEX is exclusive mage and melee buffs.

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Yes two spells doesn't make us specialized as support, but our highest rated magic skills of enfeebling and enahcning, which we happen to have the highest of both for any job, does say we should be specialized support.

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WHM's get the same enhancing as /SCH and actually have spells they can give others that benefit from it.

RDM has ~one~ spell that scales with enhancing magic and can be cast on other players, Phalanx II.

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Originally Posted by saevel

RDM has ~one~ spell that scales with enhancing magic and can be cast on other players, Phalanx II.

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Huh? When did this happen?!

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Originally Posted by ShadowViper

Yes two spells doesn't make us specialized as support, but our highest rated magic skills of enfeebling and enhancing, which we happen to have the highest of both for any job, does say we should be specialized support.

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By your logic every DRK should be using Scythe because it is their A+ weapon and have highest skill rating out of every job. The reality being that every DRK worth his salt uses Great Sword.

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If we had a spell to buff our selves before we do anything to make it more effecient than we are just another form of a sch and it slows us down from being able to quickly add support to where its needed.

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While remaining a balanced class because we shouldn't be able to do everything at once.

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Temper was nice and all but again most complained about it not being able to cast it on others.

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Because some thought it would guarantee them a spot for events. I didn't want any more cycles, so I was praying that it was self-cast only.

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If anything rdm should get a passive ability that allows self buffs to be applied to others around us, if that was the cast then DD would never complain about the rdm on front lines because they are getting buffed at the same time.

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I could live with this, under the condition that we get Renew as mentioned in Hideka's thread. If we're gonna be a walking buff totem, then we're gonna make it real easy to keep buffs up and have it not get in the way of our melee time.

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As for enfeebling, even this thread was started on gaining an ultimate enfeeb that no one else has, well in that sense alone wouldn't that break the mold of us only borrowing spells from other jobs, so why is it ok to break the mold by gaining new spells and abilities that others dont have but not ok doing so in a manner that gives us a real role in the group.

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Because settling for more of the same crap we had at 75 no longer cuts it.

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

So to sum up, SE would never implement a stance where a RDM's abilities in one aspect get boosted at the cost of another(i.e like dark arts/light arts/hasso-type abilities where Phys+/Magic- or Magic+/Phys-)

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Composure? It's a bit of an oddball, but it boosts melee accuracy by reducing magic recast. (Increasing buff duration just means less time lost meleeing due to recasting buffs :)

Maintaining your self buffs is pretty easy with Composure + Emp+2 feet and cape. The only part that sucks is when they go, they tend to all go at the same time. Murphy's law being what is it, it will always be the absolute worst time for them to fall.

I would absolutely love giving others my super buffs. I would absolutely loath spending all my time staring at recast numbers counting seconds till I can spam the next buff on generic melee DD #4. Cycles suck the fun right out of the game.

posted in the wrong thread so i'm moving this to the enhancing magic thread.

I think rdm died when convert and refresh became subbable and of course abyssea didn't help cause whm became awesome with unlimited MP. RDM needs just one unique MAJOR party contribution. Not some little % increase, but like an AOE devotion every 3 mins or something.