Battle Balance Adjustment: Cure Potency

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Originally Posted by Economizer

Yes, but with the limited information we have, they are saying that Cure V won't see much difference. Basically, we can assume that if Blue Mage spells are getting a boost, Blue Mage spells based on Cure V wouldn't get an increase. I think the question for BLU in relation to this is if it will change what sub is the most viable or not. I don't think it will given the information we have now, but it is hard to say.

On Blue Mage's curing power... If Red Mages were as stubborn about being damage dealers only as Blue Mages are I think this game would be a lot different.

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That's why I'm waiting to see what they actually do about curing.

If BLU existed back in 2003, then you can bet they'd be forced to be healers. RDM got shoved into that role due to a lack of WHM's and RDM being "just good enough". Then the player base forced RDM's to stay there, all due to a minority of idiots who though they could melee in mage gear without skills leveled.

Anyhow, lets see how this all turns out. Considering SE's recent masterful trolling with the VWNM tickets, I can see them totally screwing this up.

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More complicated then that. Defense down scales like haste.

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No actually it doesn't scale like haste at all, what you have described is an inverse function. 15% defense down is the equivalent of adding 17.6% Attack. (20% is the same as adding 25% attack).

Increasing a base attack of 300 by 17.6% is 351, Increasing it by 25% is 375 a 6.8% increase, (even though you added 7.4% effectively to attack.)

Haste however works differently going from 40-45 % haste for example is effectively a 9.8% increase to attack speed, even though you only really added 5%. (nearly doubling the added amount)

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If BLU existed back in 2003, then you can bet they'd be forced to be healers. RDM got shoved into that role due to a lack of WHM's and RDM being "just good enough".

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when will you kids learn that EXP parties are not the only party of the game. WHM was and always has been better then RDM in end game related content. EXP is a means to an end and is an irrelevant comparative example. SMN/WHM could heal EXP, doesn't make them a good choice for a Nidhog or Cerb healer does it.

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Originally Posted by Sarick

From what I'm reading they aren't changing the basic cure formulas for cures 1-4. What they're doing instead is either removing the caps on the bonuses skill can provide or raising them to cap out at higher skill.

This is much like the limits phalanx had before the level caps increased. Before the increases I think 300 skill would max out phalanx potency and any additional enhancing skill would no longer effect it. The biggest issue was base skills without gear would easily exceed 300 at higher levels. After the level increased the devs decided to raise the amount of skill beyond 300 allowing the spell to grow more.

If this is the case with cures 1-4 then the caps that where placed on them are simply getting raised so they no longer stop growing as you level. A low level player will still cure 1 for about the same amount but as they increase in level/skill it'll be much stronger at higher levels.

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At present, the effects of Healing Magic skill don't cap, they just suck horribly.

You could theoretically go all the way up to 999 skill or higher and still notice an effect and also notice that the effect sucked horribly.

Healing Magic skill increases do have a more pronounced effect at much lower levels, but that has to do with relatively lower base Healing Magic skill and soft caps on cures.

I know Healing Magic skill greatly affects BLU healing spells regardless of level, and thanks to a /SCH Light Arts setup, you can have a rather impressive cure spell, even without adding in Cure Potency spells. I'm really curious to see if /SCH's Healing Magic skill will push a BLU's spells even further than they already do. If it does effect our lower end spells more, we may very well chose to step back into a more MP efficient spell than to favour the impressive Plenilune Embrace.

Of course, if we could slip those spells under our actual Blue Magic skill instead, that would also still be fun to hear, considering giving a job tools that require skills you don't have (*cough*Throwing*cough*) is kinda like forcing their hand when it comes to subjobs.

PS: I love my 33% chance to curse things chakram. Now if only I could hit with it on something that I didn't have 40+ levels on due to subjob having some skill that'll let it land.

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Originally Posted by Saenomo

I know Healing Magic skill greatly affects BLU healing spells regardless of level, and thanks to a /SCH Light Arts setup, you can have a rather impressive cure spell, even without adding in Cure Potency spells. I'm really curious to see if /SCH's Healing Magic skill will push a BLU's spells even further than they already do. If it does effect our lower end spells more, we may very well chose to step back into a more MP efficient spell than to favour the impressive Plenilune Embrace.

Of course, if we could slip those spells under our actual Blue Magic skill instead, that would also still be fun to hear, considering giving a job tools that require skills you don't have (*cough*Throwing*cough*) is kinda like forcing their hand when it comes to subjobs.

PS: I love my 33% chance to curse things chakram. Now if only I could hit with it on something that I didn't have 40+ levels on due to subjob having some skill that'll let it land.

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Here

http://members.shaw.ca/pizza_steve/c...alculator.html

Cure calculator. Fruit and Embrace as just Cure V with lower cure power. It scales the same as C5 and Carrot scales as C3.

As it stands now, you shouldn't be using Embrace much if ever. Its only 100 cure power higher then Fruit, which considering they both have the same soft cap on cure power, isn't really that much more. It's MP cost is too high compared to Fruit, and Fruit casts faster and has a lower recast. Only time I'd think about Embrace would be if it was past 75% moon phase.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Here

http://members.shaw.ca/pizza_steve/c...alculator.html

Cure calculator. Fruit and Embrace as just Cure V with lower cure power. It scales the same as C5 and Carrot scales as C3.

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To expand on this, there are two main reasons it feels like Healing Magic skill has a greater effect on Blue Magic than actual Healing Magic.

The first one is pretty obvious. Since Blue Mage's main source of Healing Magic skill that Blue Mage's sub-job, a player gains skill in increments of 100+ rather than 5 or 10. This can make Healing Magic skill feel more potent than it actually is.

The second is slightly more involved. Blue Magic cures have lower MP costs and lower constants (base cure power, essentially) compared to their White Magic counterpart but they share one growth rate. This means that MND and Healing Magic skill result in a better relative change in power and MP efficiency, although the actual number by which the spell is increased is identical to Cure V.

I'm definitely concerned by the lack of any mention of Magic Fruit or Plenilune Embrace here, and I think this is a good opportunity for SE to move BLU cures from being healing skill-based to blue magic skill-based. /SCH isn't a great sub choice as a support unit (no haste for party outside of Diffusion), and /RDM and /WHM obviously have subjob-level healing magic. Shifting the formula over to blue magic allows BLU cures to gain about 10-15% in raw curing power, and then you can stack the new skill adjustment over that but maybe apply it in the same fashion as you're currently doing for Cure 5-6. Not going to lie, I'd love a more powerful adjustment a la cures 1-4, but I can understand concerns on that front so I'm willing to settle for a smaller bonus here. BLU's output remains balanced when playing in a frontline role since it can't make effective use of its cure potency options in the main/sub slots in that situation, and it still has reasonably effective curing potential when on the backline. I doubt it'll hold on to its second-best status after this change, but it'll at least be functional still.

Cures for <550 just don't cut it these days and Plenilune Embrace is very slow and inefficient, so please don't leave BLU out of this adjustment.

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Originally Posted by Nightfyre

I'm definitely concerned by the lack of any mention of Magic Fruit or Plenilune Embrace here, and I think this is a good opportunity for SE to move BLU cures from being healing skill-based to blue magic skill-based. /SCH isn't a great sub choice as a support unit (no haste for party outside of Diffusion), and /RDM and /WHM obviously have subjob-level healing magic. Shifting the formula over to blue magic allows BLU cures to gain about 10-15% in raw curing power, and then you can stack the new skill adjustment over that but maybe apply it in the same fashion as you're currently doing for Cure 5-6. Not going to lie, I'd love a more powerful adjustment a la cures 1-4, but I can understand concerns on that front so I'm willing to settle for a smaller bonus here. BLU's output remains balanced when playing in a frontline role since it can't make effective use of its cure potency options in the main/sub slots in that situation, and it still has reasonably effective curing potential when on the backline. I doubt it'll hold on to its second-best status after this change, but it'll at least be functional still.

Cures for <550 just don't cut it these days and Plenilune Embrace is very slow and inefficient, so please don't leave BLU out of this adjustment.

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BLU cures would gain significantly more then 10~15% if they shifted from Healing Skill to Blue Skill. I know I've said it several times now, SE was lazy when they coded the original Blue heal spells and just reused Cure V with lower cure power. This means the spells scale the same way and have the same caps. My BLU/WAR Fruits are on par with my RDM's Cure IV, and my RDM has about 10% more Cure Pot then my BLU. As BLU/WHM my Fruits beat my RDM's Cure IVs even though the RDM has native healing skill and more Cure Potency. Fruit also happens to be cheaper and Cure IV. All this is without going into Embrace or Carrot (Carrot is a Cure III clone) or even W.Wind.

If SE alters BLU healing spells, they would have to severely nerf them in order for them not to shoot up in potency.

Plus, with how BLU is now, giving them more Cure power would be like giving WAR a Cure V.

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Originally Posted by Nightfyre

I doubt it'll hold on to its second-best status after this change, but it'll at least be functional still.

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As it should be.

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Originally Posted by saevel

BLU cures would gain significantly more then 10~15% if they shifted from Healing Skill to Blue Skill. I know I've said it several times now, SE was lazy when they coded the original Blue heal spells and just reused Cure V with lower cure power. This means the spells scale the same way and have the same caps. My BLU/WAR Fruits are on par with my RDM's Cure IV, and my RDM has about 10% more Cure Pot then my BLU. As BLU/WHM my Fruits beat my RDM's Cure IVs even though the RDM has native healing skill and more Cure Potency. Fruit also happens to be cheaper and Cure IV. All this is without going into Embrace or Carrot (Carrot is a Cure III clone) or even W.Wind.

If SE alters BLU healing spells, they would have to severely nerf them in order for them not to shoot up in potency.

Plus, with how BLU is now, giving them more Cure power would be like giving WAR a Cure V.

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I checked my numbers with the cure calculator prior to posting. Maybe you should do the same.

By the way, RDM can get significantly more curepot than BLU even without weapons. It's not SE's fault if your Magic Fruits outpace your Cure 4s in per-cure output and it hasn't been for a while now. A 10% increase plus a minor increase from the healing skill update (remember that Cures 5-6 will receive a significantly lower bonus than Cures 1-4) won't put Magic Fruit anywhere near a properly geared Cure 4 post-update.

Your final statement is a gross exaggeration. BLU doesn't have the DD output of WAR and doesn't have the raw curing power of Cure V regardless of my proposal.

EDIT: And if it wasn't clear to SE in my initial post, I'm proposing that the healing skill adjustments be applied via blue magic rather than healing skill if my suggestion is implemented.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

As it should be.

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Do you ever get tired of being a one-trick pony?