Final Fantasy XI 2.0

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Originally Posted by Runespider

Square aren't working on these games in terms of strict business sense, it's all about saving face.

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In this instance, these two things probaly go hand in hand. Having your flagship title be completely canceled would have a large negative impact on the company's image. Successfully recovering FFXIV would probably increase their stock by a good amount.

I guess some people missed page 4, where they say they're using a new graphics engine, redesigning the maps, reworking the game's architecture, changing the UI, AND adding content. FFXI would only have needed the first, third, and last to be re-release worthy.

Basically, re-releasing either game is a shitton of work. They picked the wrong one from a business sense. Re-releasing FFXI v2.0, where all the old kings bullshit is gone and new gear is important, but there are still old things around if you want to do them, would have gotten a huge boost from nostalgic gamers. Toss some hot graphics on the top, swap PS2 for PS3, and you could have had a lot of serious players again. Their decision to do it for FFXIV (which really has no potential for success) is, in a word, dumb. The game may have some appeal in Japan, as I don't know what its competition looks like, but it has no chance of success in international markets unless they promote the hell out of it. SE has always been terrible at promotion abroad, and any promotion they do for this is going to have the "lolFF14" scepter lurking in the background anyway.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

L2Read

"not hugely successful" =/= not successful

it also had a rather bad release

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@ Alhanelem also. So you guys are telling me it is better to re release a failed game vs re releasing a successful one? That makes so much sense, I guess that is why PS3 has so many HD remakes of PS2 games, why SE has re released every FF except for 7, 8, and 9. Yup re releasing XIV is a better idea then re releasing XI. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Swords

Eh, subscriber numbers arn't exactly the best thing to use for an argument when it comes to deciding which MMO's are hits or not. For starters most every MMO has a high subscriber rate at launch, not because the games any good but because people just want to check it out. Second, some people quit playing yet still pay for their account, because they don't want to lose their character in case they decide to come back one day. Third you also have to consider how many of those subscribers are mules, craft/gatering bots, RMT, etc. Each of these inflate the subscriber rate exponentially, which is why I always laugh when I see "Over 6 million subscribers" on copies of WoW.

Anyways, if people want to talk on the subject of cutting their losses I'd love to see what people have to say about why Sony didn't just cut their losses when the PS3 bombed harder than FFXIV at launch. I mean they've revised the system like 8 times in the last 5 years dumbing it down to make it more affordable, and now they're just starting to make profit on it.

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Come on bro you can't compare PS3 to a game. Sony knew they would make money over time. I seriously doubt the same will every happen with XIV. The image has been tarnished. If it does it will be the first MMO in history to do so.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Even if it wasn't FFXIV, i'd rather them have dropped the development cost of the game on some other new title, than a overaul to FFXI. From a business standpoint a new product makes way more sense.

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There has been tons of remakes of SUCCESSFUL games just take a look at the PS3 catalog or even the FF series.

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Originally Posted by Yugl

Psychological reason: When you make grand investments into projects and they don't pay off, you're less likely to abandon them than if you invested less.

Business reason: SE had planned this from the beginning. They are not psychic; they cannot tell what players want, generically, from an MMO (Generically does not mean "Hey, give me WAR buffs!"). They allowed players, without monthly fees, to play the game and find flaws with the system. SE acted accordingly. The whole process is to release half a product and then gradually build the rest of the product up with the help of the player base. It's similar to hiring a group of players to develop the game alongside the development team, but is cheaper and avoids psychological biases that might emerge had the players been paid. Consequently, once SE feels they have adequately understood what their game needs, they are able to begin charging players (Build revenue) with the promise of enhanced gameplay (Prevents people from leaving).

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Well they shouldn't have released that product to the public. People have betas for a reason. Look at The Old Republic, has been in beta since early last year and still has not released.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

FFXIV has come a long way in a year too. That being said, the finickier gamers of today aren't taking notice and just blasting it on the basis of the weak launch, as if there's no way it could have improved in this time.

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Every single change they've made during this past year, AND up through the next, should have been done before release, PERIOD. SE showed absolute negligence in XIV's creation. They lost the trust of their supporters by releasing a game barely fit to be called an alpha to the public. I personally paid $80 for the CE and I won't be spending another dime on XIV just on principle.

Long story short, don't even try to make it sound like it's the gamer's fault.

I'm sorry, but the only people who want an FFXI 2.0 are the people still playing it. I have a lot of friends who had their fill of XI and quit years ago. Not one of them are going around thinking, "Gosh, I sure would love a polished up XI so I can go back and do content I've already done with prettier graphics." They've played the game, they're satisfied with their progress, and they're not coming back. New players? Forget it - it's been eight years. That time has come and gone; people have already passed it up for one reason or another, and are even less likely to touch a reboot than ex-players. Maybe - MAYBE - it could be profitable in another ten years, but we're still dealing with the same generation that skipped FFXI to play WoW.

Say what you will about XIV, but expecting an XI-2 to happen is a pipe dream. The only thing I'm really expecting at this point is a lower monthly subscription. We've been paying for XIV all year. Now that they're charging XIV players, I better not be paying as much for XI as I did three years ago for a fraction of the update size. Especially when I'm seeing the juggernaut updates XIV is getting for the same fee.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Relaunches are not unprecedented.

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Successful relaunches are unprecedented however.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

There are MULTIPLE other games out there that didn't launch great and later reinvented themselves and gained new players.

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Name them.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

They've already done half the work they need to get to their goal, to abandon it now would be even more of a colossal waste than if they never made the attempt in the first place.

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That is the type of thinking that causes companies to go bankrupt. When a project has failed you are better off cutting your looses and terminating the project rather than risking even higher losses by continuing to throw money at it in the hope you can eventually turn it around.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

Revamping FFXIV, which still has a chance and is not limited by a rather ... complete trash game engine is the better business choice.

Don't expect miracles, but expect more than you ever could with the limited abilities of FFXI's core

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You did read the part where they said they were completely replacing FFXIV's graphics engine in 2.0 right?

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

revamping an old investment that has payed for itself and has been dying at a steady rate for years and has a "technological cap" that won't allow furthering it greatly without a complete rewrite of the game engine

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Again, they said they'd be replacing the graphics engine and server end software in FFXIV 2.0 They are literally developing a new game from the ground up and just reusing the same textures and models.