Temper info

Agreed. Saevel you are in fact the one who trolled this thread and turned it into an argument about.........trolling. I agree with Shiyo somewhat. I would rather see buffs to current enfeebles, and additions of new ones. I don't really see much utility in this spell for groups, and I don't really want to have to play red mage just like blu. It would be nice if it did a little more for solo play, but honestly I would rather they concentrated on something that is more needed.

Not really. Saev doesn't randomly post in threads trying to provoke people who are posting on topic.

I've lent my support to the buff Temper thread, and I will lend that same support here. Don't know if anyone has made a bug report on the spell, under the hopes that the spell is bugged and is supposed to scale with enhancing magic skill.

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If the healers are doing their jobs correctly, TP feeding won't be an issue. Give the RDMs a melee buff or two and let em go to town with a sword or two. Make em enfeeble and toss a cure or nuke around every now and then. I guarantee every RDM will be happy with this solution. It really saddens me that about 95% of RDMs impressive spell list goes unused because of their forced role in party. Temper could really open this up by sliding RDM into an all-around role; can do everything, but just not as good as everyone else who does those things specifically. If Temper is upped to around 25%, let's say, if you slap on /nin and an En-spell, you're dealing quite a bit of damage. Not as good as the jobs that have A+'s and attack stat out the wazoo, but enough to be noticable. All the while, the RDM could help out the WHM if needed, play on an elemental weakness with the BLM, enfeeble (their forte) or toss out a buff or two.

This, as I see it, was the original vision for RDM and it alllllll went downhill when someone found Refresh on a Taisai. Can we go back to this please? I mean, it's how the job was fleshed out in previous Final Fantasy games. BLM always kept it's role. As did WHM, BLU, WAR, DRG, etc. Why can't RDM?

Motion: Increase temper from ~5% static to scale with enhancing magic skill OR a ~20-25% static, ensuring that it adds Double Attack stat, not 'Occasionally attacks twice.'

Discuss.

Ugh, it's official. RDM is boned hard this quarter, unless temper gets 20-25% OAT or 10-15% DA in spell form.

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Originally Posted by Quetzacoatl

Ugh, it's official. RDM is boned hard this quarter, unless temper gets 20-25% OAT or 10-15% DA in spell form.

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Bug reports, feedback and all that would work in our favor.. I haven't seen anything from the devs as of yet stating "this is the final version of the spell you'll be getting, so stop talking about it".

First, let me state that I feel that RDM's healing, enfeebling, and yes, melee all need to be buffed. RDM has multiple possible roles and dev attention needs to be paid to all of them. This update fails utterly at the first two and now we know it fails hard at the third as well. We don't want spells that are so weak we can only note that they do anything at all via a parser. Temper with a ~5% double attack rate is simply not worth its casting time or MP. The rate needs to come up quite a bit, but that by itself will not result in RDM being allowed to melee in party situations; Temper also needs a +Subtle Blow trait. Think about it, attacking with multiple weaker hits instead of one larger hit creates TP feed issues and that is why other jobs that rely on multiple hits have some form of Subtle Blow. Monk? Subtle Blow job trait. Ninja? Also Subtle Blow job trait. Puppetmaster's automaton? Getting Subtle Blow in the update. You see my point. A RDM who tries meleeing the mob will catch party aggro as it is, giving us multiple hits will make it even worse.

Of course, there is another way of dealing with it, and that is giving RDM some TP move-reducing enfeebling spells, which would also help with our lagging enfeebles. Virus or (gasp!) even Amnesia would help with both problems. Amnesia would also have the added benefit of making our enfeebling relevant against mobs whose "normal" hits are actually specials like Shinryu, iron giant family, etc; as it is, Paralyze won't cancel their normal attacks and Slow won't affect them either. If Amnesia is too strong for player use, create a new status that has a chance to cancel special moves like Paralyze does spells and normal hits, and/or a status that increases special move readying time and recovery time like Slow does for magic.

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Originally Posted by Wolfandre

If the healers are doing their jobs correctly, TP feeding won't be an issue.

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Maybe on normal, everyday mobs, but most of the new super mobs are much, much harder, if not impossible if there is TP feed. Easiest way to make a healer sad is to needlessly TP feed.

That said, Red Mage solo, RDM + support duo strategies, and maybe even Red Mage main damage dealer (situational) are all opened up by more advanced melee buffs for Red Mage. Temper is just one in a long line of ever expanding tools for a stab inclined Red Mage. As always, situational, and situations pop up for the most resourceful and clever Red Mages.

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Maybe on normal, everyday mobs, but most of the new super mobs are much, much harder, if not impossible if there is TP feed. Easiest way to make a healer sad is to needlessly TP feed.

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This isn't true at all. All the current "hard" NM's have permanent Meditate effect, and some of them can just WS without ever having TP. Heck ever the "not so hard" NM's like Sobek can WS whenever they want, we've had a NIN backtank it while we waited on someone to go change jobs. Absolutely no damage was done, not even Dia, and Sobek still use'd various TP moves like Tail Roll and Tyrant Tusk. Iron Giants, Demons and Wyrms are just as bad.

Basically SE noticed that we were dodging NM super moves by controlling the TP the monster received, so they did like they usually do and just cheated. Gave NM's permanent meditate effect or just made them WS on a timer, problem solved.

I think giving a monster TP by whacking it has gotten a far worse reputation than it deserves, possibly since it can be hard to separate from "being in range of TP moves" and most things of any challenge have brutal Area of Effect TP moves.

The most difficult monsters nowadays spew forth extreme Area-of-Effect spells and abilities like Paula Deen's kitchen spews forth butter-based comestibles, though, so the case against people unnecessarily engaging stuff still stands.