Yeah but then would you rather sit in town all day trying to figure out what to do, what content should you repeat "AFTER" you got everything you wanted from WR, Delve, Skirmish?Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankReynolds
You are at the inevitable question like many other players which is "What happens when you are at the very end, have nothing else to do but what's currently available, and need more content to keep you happy?"
Then again what do you do when there's nothing else to do all because you completed everything?
At this point speeding up the game play by making it easier would only give you and everyone else a reason to quit or stop playing quicker. Unless you like to go back and repeat everything again.
FFXI already lost a lot of players at the moment. Giving a reason to lose more would be a horrible move if they did make it easier before the crash.
At least right now they can analyze the damage and make adjustments according to how the servers are now.
As I said. If you really love FFXI.
Support it.
Even if that means waiting for the DEV TEAM to resolve what's going on.
This thread AGAIN, please, fix WK.
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08-31-2013, 04:26 PMDaemon
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08-31-2013, 05:20 PMOmnysValefor
For most of those players, they put them in the last quarter-mile of the race. A lot of players still need Salvage II, NNI, Limbus II, etc. I'm not giving SE any sympathy that their only solution for the lack of content situation they created is to make content that you have to endure rather than enjoy.
People have been supporting it for years, I've been supporting it. Criticism is support, in this case. I can support the game and simultaneously fault an aspect.
"Sir, you'd be a great presidential candidate. The people love your ideas, your personality, your passion for bipartisan compromise; you just need to quit picking your nose." -
08-31-2013, 05:26 PMDaemonLol! Yeah but the sad thing is NNI gear is becoming outdated with new Skirmish items.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmnysValefor
The way I see it, Devs will need to add higher level content on all other parts of the game to make it relevant. Do you remember the time when you were low level, and you saw high levels passing by to go up to the higher level maps of the game? Back when you needed a raise and asked people on the same map or on the higher level of that area? People who were soloing that didnt mind helping you do a quest because they really didnt have anything that important to do?
I think the best strategy to bring back older content to life is to add new areas on top of old areas. Like extension.
They need to stop directing the crowd to only 1 area of the game and give everyone reasons to play all parts of the game. So many people wouldn't be sitting here thinking omg SoA is the only thing we have, I'm quitting.
Directing everyone to one area of the game only separates the community.
They need to add more stuff that
1. can be solod
2. takes time according to a persons pace
3. Interesting enough to go back and do it again
4. Rewarding enough not to lose interest and get pissed off angry and hopeless to the point this games makes you miserable and quit
5. Rewards that don't get outdated in the next few updates
6. Events that RMT won't massively swarm take over and MPK others and make you leave
7. Bosses that don't require 200 people to kill or 200 people waiting in line all day to pop in hopes that some ass won't jump ahead and pop before you
8. Release gear that doesn't serve only 1 reason to carry it for 1 task.
In order to even do all of that, ride out the storm, look over the damage and figure out how to repair and rebuild and work with what's left.
That's how I saw it before 14 release.
Gee I could go on all morning... I need sleep D: -
08-31-2013, 09:04 PMDemon6324236No matter what the reward is, standing in a zone, logged on my character, on this game, doing nothing but wiping over and over again when an idiot pulls a Panopt to kill something out of boredom and wipes the entire WK, for hours while I wait for the battle to really start, then fight for 3~6 hours, and then rewarding me with a pebble, is never, fucking, acceptable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon
No, it means make WKs fucking matter to people, make it so we can go and do them without waiting 10 hours for shouts to pull enough people there to not wipe in 10 minutes and have Yumcax regen fully. They want you to get 50~100 people, 1/10~1/20th of the server online at the time for Phoenix, better or worse for others, to go to that area and fight that single NM, for hours, just so you might get a reward, but probably wont.Quote:
Unless you think its best that WR be the only content relevant and everything else in SoA worthless. Only adding in better rewards to keep you interested tells me screw all other SoA content and make WR the only thing to play.
News flash, while you were away, Skirmish gear shat on Delve gear big time, only Delve weapons were 100% better and those are boss weapons or boss crafted only. A great deal of the T1~3 non-accessory gear went bad because its harder to get than Skirmish gear, but Skirmish gear is better. And as I said, WKs do not need to be the only relevant, content, but they need to actually be fuckin relevant. why in the hell bother making new content if you out date it 2 months later in every fucking way!? Before SoA an event could live on for years, it could have a single amazing piece of gear and still be worth doing, but no, SoA has a max life expectancy of 2 updates, if it lives past 2 updates, I am fkin amazed by this point. WKs died before that 2 update mark, only took 1 update for them to really die, but 2 to die off completely now.Quote:
Which wouldn't make sense right now because who would ever do Delve and help others do Delve and other parts of SoA?
What it is, not what I expect... ok.Quote:
I'm looking at the event for what it is. Not for what I expect it to be.
Its an event where I wait in zone for hours while people yell in Adoulin because I already went out & entered, thanks to no way to check the amount of people inside. I am trapped inside without the ability to leave, otherwise I lose all Bayld I sent to enter in the first place. Once the hours of waiting for people are over, hours where I had to be at my PC incase it started, because if I'm adk & I'm healing the tank, he could die without me, and wipe us all, causing our failure. But, once the hours of waiting are over and the battle begins, I then have to fight the NM for hours, on the same job, without the ability to change, creating what I would describe as a boring and repetitive experience. After this, I will either be killed, with the rest of the people in a wipe, where likely there will be 10 or so idiots who fail to understand what the word wipe means, even when told to let themselves die, so that we can recover faster. Or, I will be rewarded, my reward can consist of 1 reward from the NM, and 1 random craft item, however, if I already have the drop it picks for me, I will not get a NM drop. Instead, my single reward will be a random craft item, which ranges from 1~30k Gil in worth. Also, to do all of this, I have to ask the same thing be done by another 50 human beings as well.
Yeah, looking at what the event is, not what I wish it were, I would never touch that shit ever again...
No, I spam it 5 times a month and earn crap synthesis materials, your right, its not VW, its much worse.Quote:
This is not VW where you spam a boss 50 times a day and earn crap synthesis materials.
Random drop rates, and randomness in general, is not a challenge, its the exact removal of skill based challenge. You want challenge, make a hard ass fight with a 100% drop rate that is nearly unbeatable, like, I don't know, Delve Bosses were meant to be, and it works well. You want repetitive garbage where people have to waste time killing the same exact NM they already proved themselves better than, over, and over, and over again, that's not challenge, that's a repetitive time sink which was made to hold you back by randomly generated numbers and pure fkin luck.Quote:
This is an HNM event just the same when back in the day HNM such as King Behemoth were the main focus of getting the best items. If you really want those items so bad then regardless of the challenge, do it.
No, I expect WKs to be rewarding unlike VW because the battle is much more difficult. No temps, no atmas, no 18 man alliance can kill them easily in 3~5 minutes. These take an army of competent people to take down, much larger than any VWNM could have dreamed, its brutally difficult, with moves that can hit upwards of 40 people with doom in a single attack, or deal 2k+ DMG to everyone within a large AoE radius. This is nothing like VW in terms of difficulty of the battle itself, the rewards should be far better than VW's ever were, and yet, I find myself back in the same situation, fighting a NM over and over again with no hope because I get nothing but logs.Quote:
A person can earn 75k Bayld in 1 hour. What's the problem? You can earn some of that Bayld back. No camping 24/7 for an entire week and no competition. And no killing each other over who gets a single drop.
What I see is you people are use to the VW spams that you expect WR to be the same.
Ya know what, here, your back, on a day you have no work, nothing to do in real life, let me know, you go out, you shout for a Yumcax. The rules of this are you are not allowed to stop until either real life calls upon you, wish should be the next day, or until 1 full Yumcax has died. I dare you to do this, start the shout at 4PM EST on the day of your choice when you are most available. I will join, I will go to the zone, and I will wait. You can then show me how this is awesome content and my complains are just whining. Till you do this, again I say, shut the hell up, because you have not done a bad WK, not close, so you have no idea what its like. As distasteful as it may seem, I would liken our views to be like someone who has been raped, stupid teens laughing saying its not that bad, it should be fun even, while anyone who has really experienced it knows its horrible, and no one else can comprehend it. You are being the teen in that instance, saying its not that bad, WKs are fine, we are just lazy, when you have never been through it really, you don't know.Quote:
And all I see these complaints sound to me like, I want the best but I hate the effort it takes to earn them.
If the effort is so hard then that should mean its because the item you want is not meant to be earned easily.
So like I said, pick a day, let me know, I will monitor the battle from start to end, I will time it, starting from 4PM EST till the time of death, or time you give up. Once that's over, we will see how awesome this event is, and how lazy we are.
Actually no, Mythics have trackable progression at least. Sure, they suck to make, but I know how far into hell I have gone and how far I have yet to go, its not just pure luck that maybe this Salvage run my .01% drop rate Mythic will drop from the boss at the end. Also, entrance is easy, you need not share your Alex you get, just go in with the logout method, the other 2 people keep their KI, and your in, solo it. If you cant solo it, then that sucks, but many people can, and I would argue at this point if you deserve a Mythic, you should be able to solo old Salvage. At least you don't need 50 others to enter with you otherwise the run is nearly impossible to make any progress on.Quote:
I still think WR is way better than doing hopeless quests like Mythic.
I'd rather spam Hurkan and Yumcax all day everyday than sit in town finding people to decide who will farm alexandrite a and how much I have to share to those who are not even working on Mythic.
Quests, Einherjar, ZNM, Missions, assault, Salvage, Besieged, and whatever other ridiculous requirements it takes to build one...
In VW I constantly had friends who needed a Heka's body. I got mine my first run. Now if I was an asshole, I would never go help them, I mean, nothing else at Akvan ever mattered for me, so why bother. But, I'm a decent non-asshole guy, I went to help them most of the time if I was able to, meaning, I had stones, didn't have to buy them a ton, and I wasn't doing something else which was more needed at the time, like a restricted thing I couldn't do normally. Now... WKs are far worse. Even if I have items I need from the NM, I have to weigh my determination to get it vs the hours I know deep down it will likely take, regardless of helping my friends at all in the first place. Once I have all of my items, my friend would be asking me to basically come out and help them with a WK which would take me many hours to finish, so they can get a pebble most likely.Quote:
I hated VW for the fact people who got their items stopped playing and did not go back to help others get what they needed.
You see, with VW, I knew people probably wouldn't get their drop, but oh well, it was 30min for a run, not really out of my way cause of fast warps, and stones were easy & fast to get, and spawned in my inventory basically every few hours. WKs on the other hand I have to go farm Bayld, no matter if its from Skirmish or not, just so I can go help a friend for hours by fighting a NM which is a bit more out of my way than VW NMs, where they are just as unlikely to get the drop they want.
You hate VW, yet you keep saying this event isn't that bad for everything it does as bad as, or worse than VW.
Let me know what day you want to shout for Yumcax. Ill be waiting. -
08-31-2013, 09:05 PMDemon6324236I play while I do this. And I doubt you could, after all, you would need others for it. If there were shouts going for the NMs, I would probably post here while I waited, which I often do when there are shouts & I waste my time by going.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon
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08-31-2013, 09:14 PMDemon6324236This game is always about waiting, never about actually doing something fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon
Join a Delve shout, wait to find a BRD for a hour.
Join a Tojil shout, wait to find a SCH for a hour who can stun.
Join a WK shout, wait to find an army of people who can PLD, WHM, SMN, or COR.
Join the FFXI Forums, wait to get issues resolved for a few years while the devs make more content which outdates their older dead content.
You know Skirmish actually could have been a decent event originally had they sat down and solved that event before moving forward with Delve? But they didn't, they moved forward while they tried to fix it originally, and we all saw what happened, it died. You know what happened to the original WKs? Well, they didn't fix them still, their dead. You know what keeps happening with SoA? They keep trying to push content forward, and every single time, they kill the old content before they really fix it and make it worth doing. This strategy, isn't working.
This problem isn't new, its been here since Delve came into existence, months ago, back in May, yet they have yet to address it at all. No, not KI prices, I mean the actual fight itself, and the reason people should do it. The closest they came was allowing us to pick 1 item after killing all of the NMs at the same level, which is nice, but also terrible. It gave a small tiny bit of life to old ones, a short burst, nothing more. I am tired of waiting for a fix that should have come and gone by now. Fixing it twice in a 4 month span is better than fixing it once in a 6 month span when your players suffer worse for the longer wait because you had 'better' things to do like adding a box in my garden to store my gil, which does absolutely nothing for 99% of players who don't have capped gil in the first place. -
08-31-2013, 09:27 PMDemon6324236I would rather do that than shout for multiple hours on end for a WK. Also, I might not have that bad an issue if they didn't outdate the entire rest of the game with Adoulin, and half of Adoulin didn't get outdated every single update.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon
You can take things 1 of 3 ways. A, Fun enjoyable content which is repeatable if for nothing more than enjoyment after rewards are gotten, and the event itself is rewarding enough to keep you happy. B, Boring content you get through as fast as you can, getting all of the rewards involved as fast as possible so you never have to return to the event again. C, Annoying content you can not speed through because no matter how badly designed it is, you can not obtain your items from it due to luck.Quote:
You are at the inevitable question like many other players which is "What happens when you are at the very end, have nothing else to do but what's currently available, and need more content to keep you happy?"
A keeps people coming back to the event, like VW in a way did, it wasn't amazingly fun, and drop rates were bad, but it was not so horribly boring that I wanted to kill myself after every run. B is like Salvage, it got boring, and I just didn't want to go back after getting my stuff, I wanted to speed through it, and be done. C is like WK to me, I want to go in, get every win done, and never return because of how I hate it, and how bad it is, but couldn't/cant, because of luck..
Find a new job to work on, do nothing, quit, help friends with stuff they still need. Those are your basic choices.Quote:
Then again what do you do when there's nothing else to do all because you completed everything?
Yet, speeding up the game is exactly, 100%, what they did.Quote:
At this point speeding up the game play by making it easier would only give you and everyone else a reason to quit or stop playing quicker. Unless you like to go back and repeat everything again.
Yes, because everyone is currently staying for the oh so exciting 10 hour wait time at Yumcax with the repeat wipes and recoveries spread throughout that time.Quote:
FFXI already lost a lot of players at the moment. Giving a reason to lose more would be a horrible move if they did make it easier before the crash.
They could have done the exact thing 3 months ago with how the servers were 3 months ago. It could have prevented some people leaving because they could see SE is trying to make this game good still and working on the issues it has, instead, that never happened. I still don't expect it to happen any more or less now that more people left, and people from the FFXI team might be pulled to FFXIV thanks to the fact its doing well right now and has so many people on it while FFXI has less people than before, and thus, less money incoming to SE.Quote:
At least right now they can analyze the damage and make adjustments according to how the servers are now.
I support FFXI, I don't support the poor choices made by the Dev team and lack of fixes the game receives to the more important issues. There is a large difference in my opinion between supporting a game and supporting the team of people driving it into the ground.Quote:
As I said. If you really love FFXI.
Support it.
Even if that means waiting for the DEV TEAM to resolve what's going on.
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09-01-2013, 01:06 AMFrankReynoldsI already sit in town waiting, trying to figure out what to do. I'll take being bored because I've done it all over being bored because I'm waiting for the devs to do something any time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon
No, I'm not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon
That will probably never happen. No one runs out of things to do. They run out of things they want to do. I did past events ad naseum because they were fun and entertaining. They had a low bar of entry and a fairly high success rate. They had rewards that were worth while and generally obtainable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon
Spending hours farming a pop item for a fight that takes ??? to get started and 3-??? hours to complete with a hundred people on servers, many of which often have less than 1,000 people to begin with, is not a fun or viable form of entertainment.
Well since the current option is making everything suck so that I have to go back and complete it again... and again... and again... I don't really see how me having to do that with my cool items is any worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon
There comes a point where people just choose not to do it at all and the outcome is the same. That point is a speck on the rear view mirror.
Yes, if what you're doing isn't working, just keep doing it over and over and over. Never divert from the path to insanity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon
Yeah... see, they were actually supposed to do that before everyone quit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon
I support it with my paycheck. I Support it with valuable feedback that is mostly ignored. That is love on a one way street.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon
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09-01-2013, 02:11 AMOmnysValeforQuote:
they were actually supposed to do that before everyone quit.
Quote:
they were actually supposed to do that before everyone quit.
Such a shame.Quote:
they were actually supposed to do that before everyone quit.
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09-01-2013, 03:19 AMDaemon
Since day 1 FFXI was released, it was easy to find groups (AT the very beginning of the game) to do stuff because everyone was at the same level or close, people did not have billions of things to do or have millions of things on the "I want list."
Most people were at the same point of "I dunno the game lets explore together, lets go do whatever because I don't have anything major to do."
As you reach higher level, gaps begin. Same as if you attend school and if a person fails 1 grade, gets held back while others progress pass you, interests change, and people who move forward have different priorities.
And as priorities between others begin to change, the further it becomes harder to find people with the same interest as you. And because so much content is out, too many things give everyone reasons not to have the same interests.
This is why game programming becomes challenging because on the same note, DEVs have to implement various reasons to keep those at different levels busy with content according to ones progress.
You guys talk about how it takes forever to do stuff, its hard to get things going because either you can't find people who are interested to do the same thing as you or do stuff that doesn't take several hours because of the difficulty level.
And that's the problem with dealing with high levels VS low levels.
At end game, you've either done stuff a million times, or hate doing stuff that takes up your entire day. But in reality according to "Balance" DEVs have to face factors such as players level, power of the player, power of a group, power of the overall community, time factor, gaps, amount of players, progress based on new player, old players, general overall community.
When dealing with higher level player, there's no choice but to make content harder, but not all content will have the same difficulty.then again DEVs have to figure out difficulty level based on either make things easy but then face the issue of players speeding past the event too fast, make things hard, people complain the event is hopeless, or make it easy but make the event longer in fights so people don't speed past and kill the content quickly.
Difference changes based on the amount of people that can do the same event.
The thing is, Wilds Keeper Rieves I can tell DEVs made it easy, but made these fights longer because they are wanting several players on the server to participate and not just a certain few camp all day or spend massive amounts of time getting a group of friends to walk over only to find that the boss died before or as they approached it.
Because this event does not limit you to 18 man party, it only makes sense to give the boss massive of amounts of HP so the boss won't die too fast.
For those who arrive early, the truth is you are helping the entire server by holding the boss for everyone else to have an equal chance and an equal opportunity to participate giving everyone time to show up and help. Also allowing anyone to play any job they want.
Its because this event welcomes more than 18 people, you don't have to sit down and specifically invite certain jobs, nor leave out people whose jobs you don't need.
And this is how I see WR right now.
Which solves the issue many others were complaining. "I can't find groups because people only invite WHM, BRDs, Dark knights, Sach paladin etc."
As I said balance meant to solve certain issues brings other effects along with it. And DEVs are constantly playing a game of Tug-O-War.
I've already listed all of the other positives such as no more camping 24/7 an entire week for 1 boss to pop, competition over who claims boss, competition over items etc.
For every positive, always comes negatives.
This event was not made based on a single players benefit, but for the benefit of all the people around you participating as a whole.
As for horrible drop rate? Well this solves the issue of killing the event off too fast, giving the entire community power to speed through content quickly, and "I got my item, I refuse to play again nor go back and help others."
RMT can't get together 18 people and obtain items that help them farm Gil faster.
And gives DEV TEAM time to work on updates and other content so you can have new things to do.