Ok...let me level with you here SE...

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

I don't think a kill trial was the answer either but telling us they would basically have to multiply the number required by 18 for the sake of balance is such a load of bullshit.

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You mean BSTx18 all upgrading Guttlers can kill ADL? Oh wait, you mean you need healers and Perfect Defense and actual DD's?

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings!

I asked the development team about the possibility of changing the trial requirements from collecting specific items to straight up kills of the specific notorious monster, since there were quite a lot of comments regarding this topic.

The development team had looked into changing the trial requirements in this way; however, for a variety of reasons they decided it would be better to not make this change. The biggest reason for this decision is that it was explained previously on the forum that the basis for stage 1 enhancements would be item collection and their thinking is that as long as there are people who have already started collecting these items, it would be best not to change the trial.

Also, there is quite a difference in between item collection and kills. For item trials, in an 18 person fight, one person will receive an item. Whereas for a trial requirement involving a specific number of kills, in an 18 person fight, all 18 people would receive the kill credit. While it’s not really as simple as multiplying it 18 times, since the basic thinking would be that the kill count should be greater than the number of items, in the event that we were to change the trial requirements from item collection to kills, there is a high possibility that the number would rise significantly.

Currently since we are only looking into devising the appropriate number of items to collect, I am not going to be able to tell you an estimate of how many kills it would take, but please know that there would most likely be a huge gap between the numbers.

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I may be a little confused here...

Is this sarcasm?

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

"The imaginary balance god will smite us if we accidentally make the trial easier in the process of making it unstupid."

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He smites everyone all the time forever, in order to keep it balanced. For every really inspired spell or ability added, there's another that isn't even worth the 2+ seconds of melee-time you lose for it. For every tree that grows in Brooklyn, a tree falls and crushes someone to death in Arkansas. For every awesome weapon added, one more person undertakes the Magian Trial for a horrible thing that Occasionally Attacks 2-4 Times with horrible distribution and horrible delay. For every rare animal that is shown compassion and saved, one gorilla is captured and shaved and put to work in a brothel.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

I don't think a kill trial was the answer either but telling us they would basically have to multiply the number required by 18 for the sake of balance is such a load of bullshit. They seem to be completely ignoring the time restriction, the difficulty of the mob, the trade off people make for helping with a run, and the massive gap between number of relics in circulation and the number of mythics/95 emps.

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This. This to infinity.

They didn't take the incentives for killing the monster into account, either. Archie the Dynamis Lord drops stuff that was never that good and he drops that stuff at a disappointing rate, Pandemonium Warden drops stuff that while awesome at 75 is more pointless than performing breast augmentation on a young boy's corpse, and the Voidwatch things drop...Oh, hey, stuff that actually makes people want to fight them; trial or no trial.

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Originally Posted by Unctgtg

Majority you say in there. Majority = 85% or higher, not .0000000000000001% that stage 2 will get. Follow your own words SE. Change it, or lose your player base.

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as of right now, they're -3 if you count my mules.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings!

I asked the development team about the possibility of changing the trial requirements from collecting specific items to straight up kills of the specific notorious monster, since there were quite a lot of comments regarding this topic.

The development team had looked into changing the trial requirements in this way; however, for a variety of reasons they decided it would be better to not make this change. The biggest reason for this decision is that it was explained previously on the forum that the basis for stage 1 enhancements would be item collection and their thinking is that as long as there are people who have already started collecting these items, it would be best not to change the trial.

Also, there is quite a difference in between item collection and kills. For item trials, in an 18 person fight, one person will receive an item. Whereas for a trial requirement involving a specific number of kills, in an 18 person fight, all 18 people would receive the kill credit. While it’s not really as simple as multiplying it 18 times, since the basic thinking would be that the kill count should be greater than the number of items, in the event that we were to change the trial requirements from item collection to kills, there is a high possibility that the number would rise significantly.

Currently since we are only looking into devising the appropriate number of items to collect, I am not going to be able to tell you an estimate of how many kills it would take, but please know that there would most likely be a huge gap between the numbers.

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Do you realize what the team is saying, those that already killed him for the items, they can be working on Stage 2. Don't sit there and tell us that SE programmers are that lame.

an aspect the devs should look into: compare what the trial item is AND what else the target trial NM drops... for a low level example lets take idk Sobek it drops items that ppl do need yes but there is no way in hell you'd get a single party willing to get you all 50 when they would need NOTHING from it after they get the +2 armor upgrades they need

Oh and if they want to worry about balancing shit, they're gonna have a tough time balancing their checkbook if they keep this shit up. Let them figure out what realistic balancing is, then get back to me, i'll be on star wars.

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Originally Posted by Camate

... and their thinking is that as long as there are people who have already started collecting these items, it would be best not to change the trial.

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Is the number of players who have already started collecting really that high? Is a refund really that hard to issue? Do people seriously get mad when something is altered to be better?

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Originally Posted by Camate

Also, there is quite a difference in between item collection and kills. For item trials, in an 18 person fight, one person will receive an item. Whereas for a trial requirement involving a specific number of kills, in an 18 person fight, all 18 people would receive the kill credit. While it’s not really as simple as multiplying it 18 times, since the basic thinking would be that the kill count should be greater than the number of items, in the event that we were to change the trial requirements from item collection to kills, there is a high possibility that the number would rise significantly.

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WTF? No! We both know how this game has been played for the last X number of years. When you have to turn shit in for uber weapons you have to turn A LOT of shit in. Nobody in that 18 person fight wants to be there more than once or twice unless there are other [significant] rewards to be had. Just lower the fucking requirements already.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Currently since we are only looking into devising the appropriate number of items to collect, I am not going to be able to tell you an estimate of how many kills it would take, but please know that there would most likely be a huge gap between the numbers.

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Why would there be a huge gap? What the hell? Do the devs not see these 40+ page threads about how people are tired of putting in more work for less results?

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Originally Posted by Catsby

Is the number of players who have already started collecting really that high? Is a refund really that hard to issue? Do people seriously get mad when something is altered to be better?

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Theres no need to refund...that would be admitting that no ones going to upgrade a stage 2 99 relic

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Originally Posted by Unctgtg

Your changes should be one of the following.

1 item needed

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But then they'd just make that one item have a drop rate so astronomically low that it'd make a Voidwatch Chest seem like a Test Server Moogle.