Raise the minimum allowable job level in Abyssea from 30 to 70+

Just dont do it in party chat.. That sucks lol

Of course, always used tells to give advices, but people just simply don't accept them lol

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Originally Posted by Sesono

Whenever you kick a n00b: REMEMBER! You once were one of them ...
You always have the option (opportunity) to give them advice ~ its on them to decide if they take it or not.

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I was always very open to advice and actually would ask for it, especially if I saw someone who I perceived as having good gear and/or being good at the game.

Ya well, then you still have the option to kick them out :D
And right using tells is a good idea.

i wouldn't kick someone who took advice.

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Originally Posted by Pharaun

I really want to know why you assume this. If you look at most other MMOs content gets outdated on a regular basis and it hasn't affected the long term viability of those games.

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I don't assume this. Game subscriptions are declining and servers are being eliminated/combined to keep the game viable for those that remain. New game content would be great but it can't just be end game content. Begining to mid lvl content needs to be viable and active to for new blood and replace the people that leave. Bringing new content and participation to the regular areas would be great for this.

I think this thread has more posts then the japanese forums.

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Originally Posted by Nepharite

People have always been leeching, only now its not as detrimental to the exp/hr.
I'm glad they found a way to completely do away with the mid party d/c that would destroy an exp pt.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

I think this thread has more posts then the japanese forums.

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Wouldn't surprise me.

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Originally Posted by Skybrit

I don't assume this. Game subscriptions are declining and servers are being eliminated/combined to keep the game viable for those that remain. New game content would be great but it can't just be end game content. Begining to mid lvl content needs to be viable and active to for new blood and replace the people that leave. Bringing new content and participation to the regular areas would be great for this.

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I understand where you are coming from, but if we are honest with ourselves this game really hasn't ever had anything resembling decent content for early and midgame. The only things that even come to mind for me are garrison and expeditionary force. This game has really been more about getting to level cap and doing Endgame content.

I honestly hope that the updates to Dynamis are successful since that could be a good model on how to turn old endgame content into a good midgame content.

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Originally Posted by Pharaun

I understand where you are coming from, but if we are honest with ourselves this game really hasn't ever had anything resembling decent content for early and midgame. The only things that even come to mind for me are garrison and expeditionary force. This game has really been more about getting to level cap and doing Endgame content.

I honestly hope that the updates to Dynamis are successful since that could be a good model on how to turn old endgame content into a good midgame content.

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What is the reason for a midgame now? you level to fast with abyssea.

midgame was fine when game was 75, i did that cap 20 quest, the conquest thing and garrison, then they came out whith CoP and assult.

you level too fast now to worry about "midgame" not worth the effrot, dyna needs to change to appeal to 90/99 level

Garrison and Expeditionary force were implemented badly, had mediocre rewards at best when they were semi relevent; no one will miss them.

This thread has gone on pointlessly.

You either pay for the game and support leeching, or you pay for the game and don't support leeching.

Cuz when it comes down to it, no one's opinions should matter more than the other cuz we all pay.

Holy crap 162 pages

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Originally Posted by Valefor4life

Holy crap 41 pages

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I know, pretty long thread. SE left the entrance level at 30 for months after Abyssea was released, I'm on the they intended for leeching to occur camp.

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Originally Posted by Linh

This thread has gone on pointlessly.

You either pay for the game and support leeching, or you pay for the game and don't support leeching.

Cuz when it comes down to it, no one's opinions should matter more than the other cuz we all pay.

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I dunno, when 1 person thinks X, and 9000+ people think Y, then i'd say the first person's opinion matters much less than everyone else's.

Holy giant crabs, Batman! This thread is still going..

I for one actually think don't mind lvl 30 or lowering it. But raising it? The OP must really be having a mid-life crisis. Probably reminiscing those days in in garlieg citadel. I for one sure's hell don't. You should go see a doctor before the 163rd page post.

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Originally Posted by Valefor4life

I for one actually think don't mind lvl 30 or lowering it. But raising it? The OP must really be having a mid-life crisis. Probably reminiscing those days in in garlieg citadel. I for one sure's hell don't. You should go see a doctor before the 163rd page post.

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The OP didnt start playing this game until after WoG release, I highly doubt they have ever even stepped into garlaige citadel.

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Originally Posted by Ramsos

Dear lord, zeitzone has just won the internet. This is so fail that its win.

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lol
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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

again if SE changed it, you would not be going back to the "god awful horrible EXP" the change would be two fold (most likely) to lessen the blow, the cap would be raised and EXP outside would be adjusted again. You could get around 1k EXP a kill in a 6 man PT, then when you hit 70+ you can enter abyssea and level from 70-90 like you have been doing.

It would be a little slower then it is now, but not as slow as it used to be.

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Slowing down is still taking a step backwards.

I just returned to the game, after a year of inactivity, about 6 hours before the servers went down. I haven't yet had a chance to glean a benefit of the Abyssea exp bounty... but having explained it to another friend who quit two years ago, and his girlfriend who quit three years ago, and hearing that they're both now coming back (for that reason)... I'd say that the benefit of leaving the cap at 30 (at least financially) outweighs the hindrance. The reality, from my standpoint, is that most people that are starting anew are old players returning... rather than new players trying the game for the first time. Giving them the key to power-leveling is less damaging than if this system were implemented in a newer game. Also, though I can't speak from experience, it sounds like (as mentioned before) there is incentive to explore the diversity of your job (in the case of colored switches). *shrug* Just a thought from a non-situationally experienced taru.

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Giving them the key to power-leveling is less damaging than if this system were implemented in a newer game.

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Why is that? They both seem equally nondamaging to me.

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Originally Posted by Odorf

I just returned to the game, after a year of inactivity, about 6 hours before the servers went down. I haven't yet had a chance to glean a benefit of the Abyssea exp bounty... but having explained it to another friend who quit two years ago, and his girlfriend who quit three years ago, and hearing that they're both now coming back (for that reason)... I'd say that the benefit of leaving the cap at 30 (at least financially) outweighs the hindrance. The reality, from my standpoint, is that most people that are starting anew are old players returning... rather than new players trying the game for the first time. Giving them the key to power-leveling is less damaging than if this system were implemented in a newer game. Also, though I can't speak from experience, it sounds like (as mentioned before) there is incentive to explore the diversity of your job (in the case of colored switches). *shrug* Just a thought from a non-situationally experienced taru.

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Same, I think Abyssea brought some much needed life into the game, the old tedious method where luck and time ran everything was annoying. I'm glad to see a balance between casual and hardcore gamers in a game for once, where there is not an option to pay to win. So long as they take the time to skill up and gear the job properly I have no problem with leeching. Pink/Perle DDs who think theyre amazing in the things they have on on the other hand, are quite obnoxious/loathsome.

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Originally Posted by rog

Why is that? They both seem equally nondamaging to me.

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In a newer game, the percent of new players vs. returning players would be higher. While over-leveled, under-skilled players (i.e. people that aren't totally aware of their job's functionality) isn't necessarily damaging to the game as a whole, it certainly detracts from the fun-factor of those who are put in a position where they have to either help bring the overpowered newer player up to speed, or change their own situation to avoid said overpowered player. I hope that doesn't come across like an elitist jerk. In a newer game, overpowered players who benefit from a too-simple leveling system being implemented do a proportionally larger injustice to those who have grinded and toiled their way into some form of game-balance. It's not fair in a time-investment sense to the other players, and it rocks the balance of the game's dynamic, in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Zeitzone

Anyways, its really borring to debate with you 2. You two seems to have no RL thats why you are 24/7 inside this forum when ffxi isnt runing.
And my GF waits and i want to take a shower anyway, i had a hard profitable work day and now i want to relax and not to debate and get flamed by ppl who can not call a rl them own.
GN

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Funniest thing about this RL card gettin played...it was played by someone with 160 posts against someone with 43. LOL....FAIL

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Originally Posted by Auredant

Funniest thing about this RL card gettin played...it was played by someone with 160 posts against someone with 43. LOL....FAIL

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At least I know not to play it.
I'll just pull the race card.(Eskimo. ^^)

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Originally Posted by TearValerin

Same, I think Abyssea brought some much needed life into the game, the old tedious method where luck and time ran everything was annoying. I'm glad to see a balance between casual and hardcore gamers in a game for once, where there is not an option to pay to win. So long as they take the time to skill up and gear the job properly I have no problem with leeching. Pink/Perle DDs who think theyre amazing in the things they have on on the other hand, are quite obnoxious/loathsome.

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I like this. I think it also brings to light the conflict between time < skill. It allows people who, 7 years ago, were in high school/college or just had endless amounts of time to invest in this game, can now still enjoy it with the limited time they now have (job, family, social activities take up time). Some of us have done the leveling to 75 the long, hard, old way and now that there's a new method we can have fun trying new jobs that before we could only watch. Sure not everyone of the jobs will be geared to the max, but those jobs will probably be used for solo messing around. I hope a majority of people who want to actually be good at their job take the time to do what's necessary. It's much nicer to come home from work and not sit around lfg or forming a party to only gain 1-3 levels. Instead spend maybe a day or two to get the proper level, then skill up and work on gear the other time. I can't speak for everyone but I prefer skilling up rather than grinding.

Side note: They need to implement polls so we can finally figure out who the majority and minority is on these forums. I think that would stop many arguments.

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Also known as "raise the level cap in abyssea from 30 to 65". At least thats 5 levels off of the OP, maybe in another 10k posts people will stop crying about leechers and accept it as something SE intended from the very beginning.

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Entering Abyssea at 66 and doing Shattering Stars at 66 are two different things.

Also, anyone with already a job at 90 that hasn't finished the quest will need to do it somtime in the future to prevent any deleveling, but at 90 this should not be all too hard.

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Lower it to 1. Problem solved.

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And yes, if they do this, they can allow level 1 jobs to enter Abyssea. 8P

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Originally Posted by Maquis

Entering Abyssea at 66 and doing Shattering Stars at 66 are two different things.

Also, anyone with already a job at 90 that hasn't finished the quest will need to do it somtime in the future to prevent any deleveling, but at 90 this should not be all too hard.

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Is it possible to have a job at 90 and have NOT done shattering stars?

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Originally Posted by Sprieth

Is it possible to have a job at 90 and have NOT done shattering stars?

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Each Limit Break or Genkai unlocks your level cap to five higher levels on your character. You can do it on any job, but will unlock the level cap on all your jobs. So yeah, you can level a job to 90 if you have done all the limit break quests on another job.

What he means is, you said. Also, anyone with already a job at 90 that hasn't finished the quest will need to do it somtime in the future to prevent any deleveling".

Which is confusing, since you have to break the LIMIT in order to get above it in the first place. o.O

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Originally Posted by Odorf

In a newer game, the percent of new players vs. returning players would be higher. While over-leveled, under-skilled players (i.e. people that aren't totally aware of their job's functionality) isn't necessarily damaging to the game as a whole, it certainly detracts from the fun-factor of those who are put in a position where they have to either help bring the overpowered newer player up to speed, or change their own situation to avoid said overpowered player. I hope that doesn't come across like an elitist jerk. In a newer game, overpowered players who benefit from a too-simple leveling system being implemented do a proportionally larger injustice to those who have grinded and toiled their way into some form of game-balance. It's not fair in a time-investment sense to the other players, and it rocks the balance of the game's dynamic, in my opinion.

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Does it really matter if a person learns how to play a job at level 20, or level 90? Exp could be removed entirely, and everyone could start at the max level, and that still wouldn't do any harm to the game.

Level 30 is fine. 50 would be the highest maximum I'd say they should implement. However that is still rather arbitrary in and of itself. Besides being a key person is a useful job in and of itself, they are still being useful and contributing, and they're being WAY more useful than someone who is basically missing and hitting for 0 for hours at lvl 75-90 range. However if people want to take lvl 30 jobs in and spend 12 hours in Abyssea getting it to 90 that's their issue.

Heck mage jobs don't even need skill ups.

"But they'll be gimp if they're not doing an extra 40-60 HP with their heals because their healing magic isn't up to snuff and that HP can make the difference between wiping or getting through with an NM fight!"

"They won't be able to land any enfeebles"

"Their Nukes won't do any damage and will be resisted!"

There's a simple answer to all of those concerns. /Sch

If you main or sub scholar they can basically get their stats up to snuff just by using Light Arts or Dark Arts, they'll gain skill ups as they perform actions that way, etcetera.

WHM/SCH means Accession Cure VI with Rapture turning Cure VI into an AoE and doing like 20-30 percent more than normal as well as getting that extra 40-80 HP for the cure due to light arts providing a roughly lvl 90 equivalent skill. As a Red Mage they can not only accession Phalanx and other spells but have their enhancing magic as if it were almost at cap.

Under Dark Arts Enfeebles will stick and nukes will be powered up enough to do damage while they skill up, as well as a boost to Dark Magic. Plus you can use Manifestation to have a Sleepga II instead of just Sleep II and Sleepga. Manifestation turns enfeebles and the like into AoE. Of course a BLM can heal pretty quickly with Manifestation Drain combo when there are multiple enemies in the camp as long as it doesn't get hate from all of them, or if it can switch to a Sleepga or a Manifestation Sleep II or even throw up mana wall in case of emergency.

So for the mages they're fine no matter what they do as long as they grab some appropriate tier spells, maybe get some gear, and sub scholar. They can still be perfectly usable in Abyssea and can get skill ups just fine using that method. Then when they get the skills they need they can sub something else.

I think saying that the minimum level to go into Abyssea near the 70s is kinda just wrong. Imagine if there was a level restriction to the Shadowreign era. I'd Probably be a DRK running around in Abyssea rather than a Scholar, cause if I had to get a character to level 30 just to go to the Eldeime Necropolis to do the quest for unlocking Scholar, I don't know if I would have done it by now. The only mage job I have above 30 even now, is Redmage and that was because it's got the spells I wanted to sub for my Scholar.

I dont' think a minimum level in Abyssea of like 30-40 or maybe even 50 would be an issue, but people shouldn't have to be forced to level from 50-75 where you have to gain 10-30k exp per level. Especially once they hit the level 60 range and people in Qufim/Dunes parties hit like 6 levels before you gain 1 level or everyone is gaining levels at 2x the rate you are. Right now if you're around level 50 the exp is capped in Abyssea at around 300-400 exp roughly and that's after you get all of your lights. Considering you can get that much easily without exp boosts outside of Abyssea, there's less reason to feel like Abyssea is the only way to get things done in a respectable time frame. If you don't have 4-8 hours of time to burn, then leveling outside of Abyssea will take you up faster possibly except in the case of Fell Cleave parties and amazing Dominion Ops parties depending on how fast the golden light builds up for you and how often you get exp chests.

Another point i want to make is at level 50 someone's sub job is done being leveled, so there's really no reason for them to level it up more than that unless they actually want to use it. However I know that if I was leveling nin as a sub job I wouldn't want to take it any higher than level 30 before I leech, cause I don't like Nin personally.

Raising the level cap to 70 is just going to decrease the amount of people available to you for seal farming, the amount of jobs they have available for proccing lights, etcetera. I don't think it really solves any problems. People can still Dunes and Qufim up to the cap and really there's very little if any benefits to instituting a cap, except for being some elitist. So I expect to see you doing shouts on your respective server in Jueno for good old fashioned exp parties.

I solo'd my puppetmaster from 1-20, duo'd till 23 or so, partied on and off between solos till about 45 range, and then I finally broke down and leeched to 74. Why? Because parties were getting a bit harder to find, people were complaining too dang much about the leechers, to the point to where it was getting annoying to party with people because they just keep ranting about how we should all be forced to level to level X, and most importantly, I wanted to get my BLM head and be able to get some more of my AF gear so I could get my overload gloves.

Since I had solo'd and partied so much my stats were capped, because 5 levels worth of level sync leveling was like 1/4 a level of soloing before I hit my caps again. So soloing wasn't beneficial, and partying was somewhat of a hassle at times, and elitists that are still leveling in the mid level range, are just annoying to party with cause all they rant about is that the game is too easy and I get tired of hearing that every other Kazham or higher party.

My skills are almost capped. I just merit as I gain Skillups in Abyssea and easily gain 40-50 skill ups for multiple skills in a single day soloing in Abyssea. I'm about 40-50 skill ups away from cap on a lot of those skills as well and have been able to work on getting my AF gear as I skill up. I'm about level 80 in skill, soon I'll have Tornado Kick.

Those are many of the reason why I think the position that the level cap needs to be raised higher than Genkai ranges, is just petty elitism and really doesn't do much but just prevent people from getting their job to cap, so that they can worry about the 100 other things that are important.

Ranks
CoP
ToAU missions
Salvage
Nyzul
Dynamis
AF1-3 +1/2
Magian Trials
Etcetera.

Do you really want to limit the amount of people who will level jobs that drop seals off of an NM that you don't need, so that you can lot for the ones you do need? The most you can hope for is to have more people with less jobs for proccing and to come with you on seal hunts as it becomes harder to level jobs.

I don't really see how any of the arguments FOR raising the level cap outweigh the things that I have mentioned thusly.

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Originally Posted by Nephilipitou

TL;DR (Skimmed)

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I think leeching is fine for subjobs. Just when you want to use it as a main job, prove that you know how the job works.

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Originally Posted by Maquis

I think leeching is fine for subjobs. Just when you want to use it as a main job, prove that you know how the job works.

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Do you want us to prove we can use it in the dunes, with a pl, or in abyssea, in an NM party?

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Originally Posted by rog

Do you want us to prove we can use it in the dunes, with a pl, or in abyssea, in an NM party?

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Just beating Maat would be enough for me, what would be good for you?

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Originally Posted by Maquis

Just beating Maat would be enough for me, what would be good for you?

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So, if a whm can cast repose a few times, that proves they can heal an alliance?

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Originally Posted by rog

So, if a whm can cast repose a few times, that proves they can heal an alliance?

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You think WHMs need to prove their skill beyond getting Divine Magic skill high enough to pull that off?

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Originally Posted by Maquis

You think WHMs need to prove their skill beyond getting Divine Magic skill high enough to pull that off?

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/SCH. You lose.

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Originally Posted by Maquis

You think WHMs need to prove their skill beyond getting Divine Magic skill high enough to pull that off?

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Ignoring /sch for a second, what does skilling up divine magic have to do with healing? Being able to do x does not prove they can do Y.