On Red Mage melee...

Er, your base skill is off, it's 404 +16 merits which is 420. Need Olympus sash or cascade+augmenting (or augmenting Zenith Crown) with what you listed to hit 500.

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

Er, your base skill is off, it's 404 +16 merits which is 420. Need Olympus sash or cascade+augmenting (or augmenting Zenith Crown) with what you listed to hit 500.

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Oops. I either read the wrong number or was hit by overly wishful thinking. At least that explains why olympus sash is so rare and expensive on Lakshmi.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Oops. I either read the wrong number or was hit by overly wishful thinking. At least that explains why olympus sash is so rare and expensive on Lakshmi.

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It's only obtaining through a HKCNM. The one with the five Tauri that get stronger as you kill them.

That's how I got mine, me and some friends did it like 5 or 6 times in one day, got two of those sash's and one Lacotrice. It's a good money maker if you got friends to run it with.

Duelle,

Your off on your phalanx calculations. After 300 skill it changes and it's growth is nerfed, hard.

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Phalanx

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Over 300 skill: F = 28 + Floor( (Enhancing Magic Skill - 300.5) / 28.5)

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Gets you 35 damage reduction from 501 skill on Phalanx 1. It takes 28 skill to raise it by 1 after 300 instead of 10 for 1 under 300. It's why Paladins' can get 30+ with their own Phalanx and renders Phalanx II as pretty useless.

And yeah it was specifically Bind + Grav that allowed those few RDM's to solo big stuff. You bound in, Doted it and ran away running circles or around big rocks. BLM's ended up being better then RDM's at this after 80. SE could buff the heck out of RDM melee capabilities and it wouldn't break the game one bit. Would piss the pink mages off though.

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Originally Posted by Kaych

Duelle, I just have to compliment you for keeping this thread still alive. 1559 posts!!! :D

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Actually I re~bump the thread after all the rdm melee stuff started to over flow into every other rdm thread there was. It had been pretty much dead since September 9th of last year. Duelle has been so kind tho to keep thing's going here so Kudos to him. I don't really like too post to much unless it's something worth adding or asking.

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Originally Posted by tyrantsyn

Wow, think this thread my need a bump so some of the more fanatic RDM melee'rs have some where to post.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

That's until the same guys who invaded this thread the first time decide to show up again. I give it 4 days. Today being march 14th. They know who they are, and most likely won't disappoint me.

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Been 10 days no invasion yet ;) try not to be too disappointed.

New dagger and hat added that are rdm useable and decent for melee. Shame the hat is a wee bit ugly. And still, our best ws body for non CDC is morrigan body. Names escape me right now but its a 51 dmg jambia, and the had has 8 int, mnd, and str. Happy hunting!

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Originally Posted by tyrantsyn

Actually I re~bump the thread after all the rdm melee stuff started to over flow into every other rdm thread there was. It had been pretty much dead since September 9th of last year. Duelle has been so kind tho to keep thing's going here so Kudos to him. I don't really like too post to much unless it's something worth adding or asking.





Been 10 days no invasion yet ;) try not to be too disappointed.

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I'll contribute with another bump someday if necessary ^_-

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Originally Posted by Crimson_Slasher

New dagger and hat added that are rdm useable and decent for melee. Shame the hat is a wee bit ugly. And still, our best ws body for non CDC is morrigan body. Names escape me right now but its a 51 dmg jambia, and the had has 8 int, mnd, and str. Happy hunting!

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There's also that body piece with 5% haste but has healer stats instead of something useful for melee. At least we're not seeing much in terms of "melee gear BLU is on that the devs forgot to put RDM on" again like the last couple of patches.

Looks like SE finally listened ... at least somewhat.

http://juliandev.com/ffxi/2012-03-26/

RDM is on a ton of new gear. Not the absolute best, but we've now got another haste +4% and haste +5% body choices. Also MUCH better WS options are now available.

TP:
Hedera Cotehardie Rare Exclusive
Body
DEF:52 HP+60 MP+60 Magic Accuracy+10 "Conserve MP"+6 Haste+5%
Lv 99 WHM BLM RDM BRD SMN BLU PUP SCH

Kudzu Aketon Rare Exclusive
Body
DEF:60 STR+10 AGI+10 Attack+13 Ranged Attack+13 "Double Attack"+3% "Store TP"+5
Lv 99 MNK RDM THF BST RNG NIN DRG COR PUP DNC

Haste 4% legs
Gardyloo Pants Rare Exclusive
Legs
DEF:46 AGI+6 "Magic Defense Bonus"+4 "Subtle Blow"+5 Haste+4%
Lv 99 MNK WHM RDM THF BST BRD RNG SAM NIN BLU COR DNC

Haste +7% belt
Phos Belt
Waist
DEF:8 Haste+7%
Lv 99 WAR RDM THF PLD DRK BST BRD RNG SAM NIN DRG BLU COR DNC

And it's +1 version which is haste +8%.

And for dagger wielders, some love
Aluh Jambiya Rare
Dagger
DMG:51 Delay:201 STR+10 VIT-10 Attack+15 Increases critical hit damage
Lv 99 WAR RDM THF BST BRD RNG NIN COR DNC

Very interesting sword, looks like a better Cure Sword, nice for Req spamming.

Sanus Ensis Rare Exclusive
Sword
DMG:60 Delay:228 STR+13 MND+13 "Cure" potency +13% Potency of "Cure" effect received +10%
Lv 99 WAR RDM PLD DRK BLU COR

Don't know how to obtain all these, there is a ton of other gear for WS, especially if you like daggers and ext spam. Definitely want those body pieces.

-=Edit=-

Looks like the body's come from Morta, the Tier II mega boss of the Aht Urhgan path. Seeing how bad Rex and Aello are, lets see what they do with Morta.

Interesting. I was going off the list shown on BG that had us on some cure potency gear and little else.

i am all about the kudzu aketon <.<

also, this exists: http://www.ffxiah.com/item/10352/ghadhab-nails might be nice.

but i heard a nasty rumor that the new haste belt uses sonic belt as an ingredient. i mean it's so outlandish that it almost HAS to be a lie, right?......right?

as for the new sword i'm on the fence.. i mean i want it.. just cuz it's a sword and i like swords.. but i dunno when i'd ever use it? i have a magian cure staff if i need the potency THAT badly, and a simple str path magian shikargar is a better offhand for almace.. it lines up well enough with death blossom or requiscat, but with that new dagger... the only reason you'd use those is if you had an excalibur?

i dunno.. maybe as a "good enough" offhander while still squeezing out some cure potency. sure beat the hell out of galenus i give it that.

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Originally Posted by Doombringer

as for the new sword i'm on the fence.. i mean i want it.. just cuz it's a sword and i like swords.. but i dunno when i'd ever use it? i have a magian cure staff if i need the potency THAT badly, and a simple str path magian shikargar is a better offhand for almace.. it lines up well enough with death blossom or requiscat, but with that new dagger... the only reason you'd use those is if you had an excalibur?

i dunno.. maybe as a "good enough" offhander while still squeezing out some cure potency. sure beat the hell out of galenus i give it that.

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Eh, considering I have staff allergy, that sword does look nice to have for cures. The MND doesn't hurt if you use/prefer Req.

i guess in combination with the new head +10/11% and new boots +1/4% that sword would let you get to 50% cure potency cap without a staff.. (but with an ideal set you may not even need the sword... YAY!!!) so it's definitely not BAD... but when a shikargar is gonna outdmg it it's a tough sell to me.

still though.. judging by the icon it's gonna be badass looking so i'd keep it even if just for town gear.

oh, and if you like daggers, there's an entire set with agi and att +

at first i thought it was more of that junk se throws in so crafters have something to lvl off, but at least SOME of it is solid exenterator gear i'm sure.

The new sword is amazing for what RDM can be used for...which is dual wields with full cure potency. Is there better off hands? Sure. For Damage. But I would gladly take that sword over most things, just because if I show up to an event I can fight and cure with it. If that's not melee enough for some people, well then you completely ignored that we can cure exceptionally well again.

Does this feel like Pink Magery? Somewhat, but honestly if you don't like using all of your job, there are more specialized jobs out there. At least it has a ton of good stats in one piece. If anything, I noticed that RDM got a lot more gear flexibility with this patch because they gave us access to more robust gear. You can cap haste a ton of different ways, which makes me feel like RDM is getting some decent attention.

ALSO it's gorgeous.

The sword is actually quite idea if your on front line/duo/small group and your tossing out heal's on the fly. It's actual quite tailor for a front lining RDM or PLD for that fact. Yeah there's better damage option out there. But that's a great fact of FFXI. There's lot's of option for all types of build's.

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

Does this feel like Pink Magery? Somewhat, but honestly if you don't like using all of your job, there are more specialized jobs out there.

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You're confusing willful pink magery with front-lining melee mage. Tossing a cure in emergencies is one thing, and something I have no qualms with doing. It's another to try to encourage bringing RDM to heal. Helping out the real healers is very different from carrying out their responsibilities.

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Originally Posted by Doombringer

i am all about the kudzu aketon <.<

also, this exists: http://www.ffxiah.com/item/10352/ghadhab-nails might be nice.

but i heard a nasty rumor that the new haste belt uses sonic belt as an ingredient. i mean it's so outlandish that it almost HAS to be a lie, right?......right?

as for the new sword i'm on the fence.. i mean i want it.. just cuz it's a sword and i like swords.. but i dunno when i'd ever use it? i have a magian cure staff if i need the potency THAT badly, and a simple str path magian shikargar is a better offhand for almace.. it lines up well enough with death blossom or requiscat, but with that new dagger... the only reason you'd use those is if you had an excalibur?

i dunno.. maybe as a "good enough" offhander while still squeezing out some cure potency. sure beat the hell out of galenus i give it that.

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One of the other pieces require the Strider Boots so most likely does require it.

The new sword is good for when you need to do more supporting. Your sacrificing some damage for enhanced cures, and with the recent cure update your talking 700+ Cure IV's now. It's a perfect Req sword which is why you'd use it with the STR sword or off hand it with Almace. Deal damage while sprinkling cures around the group.

Also we see new haste bodys which is nice seeing as there are so few for RDM, though I have to say the sword is amazing too, with dual wield you can use this new sword with Tefnut & the body from Akavn to hit 43% potency which to me is very impressive. While clubs may not be a great thing to RDM if your willing to give into it for a bit Tefnut would do you well, if not now we have two cure swords to dual wield so we can DD & cure like the badasses we are seeing as Galenus with this sword is still 23% total, 38% with the body I mentioned, that head piece with Praeco Slacks and you have yourself capped cure potency easy while still giving us swords to use to melee and low cast times.

Seems the new dagger is meh for other jobs that can use it, but "good" for rdm given it is the highest base dmg dagger (outside of relic) and is similar to ToM str dagger. Seems the Crit Dmg increase is coming out to 3% according to some test on rng. Might be a decent offhand with almace for CdC being it isn't much of a loss from str sword and goes toward lower overall delay.

I'm pretty sure Oneiros Knife is better for total DPS, but also harder to attain.

I specifically mentioned that dagger for RDM doing Ext spam. Off hand will almost always be a Magian STR sword or the Cure Pot sword (more support, less damage). With some of the new cure items coming out, it should be possible for RDM to hit 50% or near 50% without needing the magian staff.

Also when dealing with STR, do not forget that it's fSTR and fSTR favors low delay weapons over high delay ones. The 10 STR translates into 2.5 fSTR, so it's not a 51 DMG dagger but a 53 DMG one and +2 to whatever your off hand is.

Mostly I'm looking for better haste options, it opens up other slots and lets us get rid of those -3 sTP boots or -acc pants.

Just question some of the new haste items to be honest. Most alternate options that don't have the negatives require you also get other pieces in current spots that do give some positives to maintain capped haste.

5% haste 5stp> 7/8% haste (would only consider this if switching out feet, doubtful given the synth ingredients)
DW+3%/DA>5% haste (personally I'd rather not switch this out at all unless single wielding)
4% -3stp>2%haste +5enmity +2%DT 15att (would only switch these out if using higher haste belt to make up difference of haste loss)
3%haste -8acc 2%da/ta>4% haste AGI+6 "Magic Defense Bonus"+4 "Subtle Blow"+5 (this is about the only piece I have little to no issue swapping out)

Main reason I'd rather not swap out body is that it is factored outside of haste to lowering our cumulative delay and has very little impact on tp return. Legs I can support swapping out as the 2%da/ta doesn't outweigh the -8acc on higher eva targets, mostly just on fodder. As I said above, belt has a rumor of needing the sonic belt to synth and feet is an issue since they have lower haste than Eurus' meaning you have to make up the loss in another slot which best suits waist rather than swapping out body making the -stp negligible since you lost +5stp from swapping waist out anyway.

If acc and Stp are your biggest concerns then using new legs, feet, and haste body does allow you to remove those stp issues without sacrificing +stp in other slots, but will slightly lower your DoT in return. Also depends on what you augmented your body with (some went dw/acc, others went dw/da, and I know of some that went dw/stp) on whether swapping out would be really worth it or not.

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

I'm pretty sure Oneiros Knife is better for total DPS, but also harder to attain.

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Same could be said for Mandau being better in offhand also. It is mainly the fact of availability and higher base/fstr values the dagger brings to the table in comparison to Mandau or Oneiros. The main reason I said "good" was to state it is subjective to what you are willing to do for a better dagger option. Easiest route is this new dagger, alternative is Oneiros, and longest is Mandau. I know at 90 Mandau and Oneiros was fairly close in trade off between Dot mainly due to the boost to cdc that oneiros made up for in exchange of dot loss in offhand. As much as I hate agreeing with saveal, he makes a point about the daggers fstr additions making it better over all for Exent than Oneiros since you're comparing a 53 to a 30, and given new gear options for Exent you'll cap out Oneiros Fstr much sooner than the new dagger also.

The feet are 3% haste and replace Ledelsens +1.

Goading + Eurus isn't any better than Phasmida + Dusk+1... haste 7 belt and dusk +1 > Goading and Eurus if using dual wield body.

Most of the combinations not including the haste 7 belt are very close however. I'll look over it more later.

Haste 8 belt + nails is coming out as best waist/feet combination while dualwielding.

My bad, thought they were 2% for some reason, makes better sense to use them then. I still use goading since I seem to have horrible luck with pretty much any VWNM drop worth while, so I displaced Phasmida. Don't see the Haste 7 belt being widely available for a while however given the recipe for it. Primarily the need for Sonic belt which is made from speed belt making it more likely to see Phasmida + Ghadhab than the Haste 7 belt.

Curious which haste build you're using since you mention 8haste belt? Figured just swapping belt, feet, legs would still leave one at capped haste? 4 hands, 4 legs, 3 feet, 8 head, 7 waist = 26% unless you're still using Calmecac? Can understand using them in capped acc settings, but against harder targets wouldn't they be detrimental due to the -acc?

Brego gloves do kinda offset Calmecac pants. With that and a few rings/pcc you can offset accuracy problems rather easily and maintain haste cap, course for me, im about 3% over cap co i could swap those or my belt to swift for some more acc personally.

Yes, unless you're having accuracy issues should still be using Calmecac. For Neck I use Rancor most of the time since the +DT isn't a huge issue when I do melee, and if it is can switch to Fortitude/Ziel (once I kill that damn bird...).

Nevermind, spaced out composure when i was factoring accuracy earlier. Really need to not try to multitask when I'm doing gear builds. Always manage to forget something in the calculations.

If you can cap haste in other slots, then the Kudzu body is a must for TP pieces. STR +10 Atk +13 (18 with STR) DA+3 sTP +5 is insane considering our other options. Closest one is possible the DW+3 DA+2 ~if~ your atk is really high / near cap.

Just wish it wasn't on Morta ><

Also to point out Rubeus Spats are still 3% haste without the -acc Calmecac gives you, if you can get your hands on them, I myself have been after them for some time but fail to get them due to Kalasutrax shouts being few and far between.

I feel like there should be a new guide or resource to point to the sort of gear a meleeing rdm should be looking to obtain. I mean ofcourse everyone can go "Oh go make a empyrean weapon!" but i mean the other, finer points of melee. In general i wish there was like an equipment resource for each job, possibly a wiki thats dedicated specifically to helping jobs get on the right foot for gear. Redmage with so many performable functions could particularly benefit from this. Problem i see with this is where to make the cut-off for gear. Top 5 pieces for a slot for function? Top ten? Range them by level? Or just a large, almost catalogue of gear? Just musing.

Depends on WS Sub etc. I generally assume either /dnc or /nin if meleeing, and the only major changes I saw for TP/WS sets from what I previously posted have been already mentioned. Kudzu is a pretty good WS body as well (seems to outperform Antares for CDC unless you're hurting for accuracy. Behind Nefer/Heka's for Requiescat). Aluh Jambiya is a fair offhand assuming accuracy capped if dagger skill is capped and merited. Probably falls behind Str Shikargar otherwise.

Its less about us knowing what rdms should wear for meleeing than letting others know. I mean yeah, theres a lot of rdms who just dont know what to wear, but if theres a resource somewhere that they can look up a list of stuff, then that can only help. I always remember whenever someone at 75 asked me about rdm melee id direct them to this page

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Re...Knees_and_Toes

And they would see what was advised, and why it could be good. Im just thinking something like that but much bigger would be nice. Its no small undertaking by any means, but having a list of gear for melee, nuking, healing, and everything in between.

How about a JA similar to impetus? It could grant a +10% Job Ability Haste effect and every successful hit increases accuracy,attack and adds +2 to sword enhancement damage. Missing a hit would reset the acc/att/damage but the haste effect remains until the effect wears. Or a JA that makes your attacks ignore defense for a while(similar to twilight scythe effect).

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Originally Posted by Crimson_Slasher

Its less about us knowing what rdms should wear for meleeing than letting others know. I mean yeah, theres a lot of rdms who just dont know what to wear, but if theres a resource somewhere that they can look up a list of stuff, then that can only help. I always remember whenever someone at 75 asked me about rdm melee id direct them to this page

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Re...Knees_and_Toes

And they would see what was advised, and why it could be good. Im just thinking something like that but much bigger would be nice. Its no small undertaking by any means, but having a list of gear for melee, nuking, healing, and everything in between.

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Motenten's sheet is a good starting point, although he probably doesn't have the most recent gear updated for it. It's not too difficult to change the stats on the sheet however as long as you can use Excel/Open Office.

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Originally Posted by Crimson_Slasher

Its less about us knowing what rdms should wear for meleeing than letting others know. I mean yeah, theres a lot of rdms who just dont know what to wear, but if theres a resource somewhere that they can look up a list of stuff, then that can only help.

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You mean something along the lines of maxdps.com, retpaladin.com, femaledwarf.com, and several of those sites with apps that take into account possible gear upgrades and present what is seen as BiS (best-in-slot) for the current patch. I guess someone could try to put something like that together, but gear progression in FFXI is not exactly streamlined. The only real value that can be reliably capped is haste, as everything else fluctuates from mob to mob to the point there's not solid line of progression. Most jobs don't really have a "best" stat that they scale off, nor are they entirely balanced around said "best" stat (honestly, the only job that comes close to this style of design is SAM), and so on.

It just makes compilation and organization of gear a little harder when you factor all this stuff in.

Im not talking a list of parsed or calculated gear as much as a "Dress for success" guide. I dont care if say antares is 6% stronger than assault jerkin. More so that "If you want to melee on rdm, these are pieces that are recomended for it, this one for example is very good/best (on its own) for X function" then extend that to other functions. Seeing a bunch of numbers, or being told to get something and not knowing why its good or what to do with it is kinda pointless. Again the link i posted is close to what im thinking. We can calculate for days on end what is best, and sure a tutorial/guidelines are important too, but if you only list 2 pieces of gear that are say nigh-impossible to get, having say a top 10-20 list of pieces might be better so they can pick to fit their playstyle, or work their way up, as well as know why its good, and read some reviews. Id have said something sooner but we are all kinda stubborn here so i didnt want to make any waves. But this was a bit of a more direct question.

Several people have attempted this in the past. What tends to happen is it starts off as a good idea, but quickly devolves into trolls coming on and telling them "go play a real DD job" and all that jazz.