Nyzul Isle Uncharted information and feedback

As long as its a system like the dominion battle trophy with no ability to exchange them, it is fine, and keeps a requirement to win at floor 80/100 to get the lv 100 versions.

I'd also like to suggest that the nyzul boss key items be exchangeable for cotton coin pouches, at a somewhat lower rate of trade than the armor (2 for 20/40, 1 for 60/80/100). This would give some meaning to key items that groups might accumulate by randomly landing on a boss floor while aiming for a higher target floor (e.g. landing on floor 20 when aiming for floor 80). It could add maybe 50ish alexandrite per group if they all trade in, so it would still be less than a single salvage run, but would provide a much-needed boost in the alexandrite supply.

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Originally Posted by Khajit

Interesting but SE still hasn't addressed the fact that since the last time I checked fl100 nyzul is impossible without outright cheating. At least there might be actual interest in nyzul now.

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Eh, even if basic things like seeing through walls is too much, players can accumulate the exact same gear by doing Floor 80 a bit more - which is perfectly doable in vanilla FFXI.

I wonder if the option to not use the 'stopper' feature will remain.

If I'm reading it right, just set the "stopper" to F100 and you'll have basically achieved the same thing, unless you enjoy going 94 > 3.

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Originally Posted by Atoreis

With the stopper it is possible to get to f100 without any cheats.

INB4: It requires luck

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When I'd last semi thoroughly checked nyzul info(just before a group actually discovered you could overshoot it was calculated something along the lines of a 1.6~0.6% chance to win.(I cant seem to find the actual number calculated anymore for some reason). As such you are not filling me with confidence in your words at all and have actually ended up pulling a Mussolini wherein you have the opposite effect.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Eh, even if basic things like seeing through walls is too much, players can accumulate the exact same gear by doing Floor 80 a bit more - which is perfectly doable in vanilla FFXI.

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Uh.. GG you completely missed the point in my statement there which is honestly a new one for you. The point was that they aren't fixing the fact that cheating is effectively(since when you get into fractions of a percent on an event with limited access it effectively can be) it was that they still haven't made it legitimately possible to to the best of my knowledge. If back when the 18 hour PW news came out SE had said you could trade in 30+ sarameya/khim/tinnin hides for a single PW drop it wouldn't have been considered fixing the problem so I don't see why it is considered fixing the fl100 problem in Nyzul.

And really the fact that you think having X-ray vision like Ka-el of the Planet Krypton is a "basic thing" says alot about the state of Nyzul right now.

Nice changes... except now I got to change my sig again >_<

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

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Originally Posted by Seankp

Actually, the way I read it makes it seem more like Heroes Abyssea Trophy system. I wouldn't mind that at all. It would be a grind to get every piece you wanted, but it would be a progression method that would please everyone given time put into the event.

If you take the exact numbers from the trophy exchanging, it would take 16x Floor 20 to yield 1 KI for a floor 100 piece, or 80 runs for all 5 pieces or 240 runs for all 15. It would be less if people made it to floor 40/60/80, but it would all add up for progression and rewards that anyone would be able to obtain given enough time and dedication and removing the luck factor.

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Screwwwwwwwwwwww that. Straight up.

Allowing people to trade up 1 tier is plenty. It still requires that a group hit floor 80 consistently at the absolute minimum in order to get floor 100 armor. This is perfectly doable without any third party tools whatsoever, and I am completely okay with this.

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They could implement the system as Seankp suggested without breaking the game. It just wouldn't be 2x kills per upgrade, it would be much more. Knowing SE, there's no way they'd make it 2x kills to upgrade anyway.

Even if it was only 5x kills on a floor to get a piece from the next one up, figure that's 25 floor 20s to get a floor 60, 125 floor 20s to get a floor 80, and 625 floor 20s to get a 100.

And that's only a single piece of gear. Make it 8x kills per floor to upgrade, and you'd still need 64 floor 60 kills to get one piece of floor 100 gear. I don't care how awesome floor 100 gear is, 64 successful floor 60 runs for one piece of gear isn't really game-breaking. And even if you think it is, they could just make the multiplier higher.

In any case, a system like that would give players exactly what they want, a sense of progression where the best gear isn't hopelessly impossible to obtain, it just takes a long time.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Nope. If a group can't hit floor 80, they shouldn't be wearing floor 100 gear. Period. Don't care how many years they've played, or how many F20 bosses they've killed. I don't care if it takes 2 years per piece. Anyone, and I mean anyone can hit floor 80. They just can't hit it with Glamdring's attitude, or Rosina's attitude, or Naturebeckle's attitude.

Some gimps need to get their ego toned down a few dozen bars before they'll ever be able to improve. I'm still cracking up at Glamdring being the best player on his server.

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I'm not trying to arguing with you, one, because I greatly respect you and your contributions to the community, and two, because the FFXI player in me totally agrees with what you just said.

But you have to look at this from SE's perspective. The fact is that gimps make up a hefty portion of the playerbase, and each of the people you mentioned is worth the exact same 12.95 a month to SE as people like you. If you were SE, would you rather implement an event where the gimps basically give up and ignore it, and eventually quit in frustration? Or one where you can dangle a carrot in front of them that they can realistically (eventually) obtain, but only if they play (and pay a subscription) for those two more years per piece of gear?

You don't maintain subscriptions by alienating the gimps. You maintain them by giving the gimps a reason to play (and pay) for much, much longer periods of time. This way, anyone with half a clue can still get their gear reasonably quickly, and show it off all they want, while those without a clue have a VERY long road ahead of them, but it's a road they are still capable of traveling.

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Originally Posted by Divinius

I'm not trying to arguing with you, one, because I greatly respect you and your contributions to the community, and two, because the FFXI player in me totally agrees with what you just said.

But you have to look at this from SE's perspective. The fact is that gimps make up a hefty portion of the playerbase, and each of the people you mentioned is worth the exact same 12.95 a month to SE as people like you. If you were SE, would you rather implement an event where the gimps basically give up and ignore it, and eventually quit in frustration? Or one where you can dangle a carrot in front of them that they can realistically (eventually) obtain, but only if they play (and pay a subscription) for those two more years per piece of gear?

You don't maintain subscriptions by alienating the gimps. You maintain them by giving the gimps a reason to play (and pay) for much, much longer periods of time. This way, anyone with half a clue can still get their gear reasonably quickly, and show it off all they want, while those without a clue have a VERY long road ahead of them, but it's a road they are still capable of traveling.

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I don't think there's very much for people to feel good about with an event that anyone can beat, however. Just look at the overwhelming response from this community towards Abyssea and you'll see what I mean. Most old-school, HNM/Endgame players loved it while most of the people who had still not worked their way out of sky in 2010 absolutely abhorred it (barring a few exceptions).

It's all a matter of the ego. Of course people are going to be unhappy if they can't beat an event, because that challenges their ego. They'll come up with any excuse they can, be it "I only lose because I'm not a cheating botter scumbag who rapes children", or "I'm more skilled than any of those guys, I just don't RMT all my gil and suck pee-pee for gear because I have my dignity". In the end, that's all it really boils down to. Events that are beatable by anyone don't stroke the ego, so even if it's made accessible to them it immediately becomes unwanted.

The real carrot isn't supposed to be the gear. It's supposed to be the increase in skill, teamwork, and tactics required to get said gear. The goal is for people to be improving themselves as players, and frankly no one who hasn't already done so will bother if they're able to get everything while maintaining a horrendously gimp attitude.

It doesn't take spectacular gear or 3PP to hit floor 80. It just takes a basic understanding of game mechanics and teamwork. Of course, everyone thinks that they have that, even when they don't, and thus blame their inability to hit floor 80 on external factors like bots and hacks. Note that I'm specifically talking about 80 here. I know plenty well that hitting 100 without even basic Windower is going to still be a crapshoot, but I don't much care as that's just what people have to deal with when they choose not to use a superior interface in 2012.

What people like Glamdring need to learn is that they aren't as good at this game as they think they are, they don't know as much as they think they do, and the real reason they're losing isn't because of bots/hacks/RMT/ but because they're just not good, and the only way to prove that is to have an event that'll give them a swift kick in the ass if they go in with their current mindset.

At the same time, even for gimps, F60 gear is probably better than what they're wearing now, so with the changes, even subpar players can do the event and get better gear, they just won't get the best gear. They just need not to be braindead.