Development Team Downsizing and Justification Makes no Sense

I like every employee (outside of SE included) to be happy and doesn't really have to depend on customers. Personally, I enjoy the Lv75 cap more because I miss playing RDM75/NIN37. :cool:

Whatever you did at 75 you can do better at 99, its not like anything went away

I am the opposite, they took too long to increase the level cap and that's the real reason ppl got attached to it. I like the new range of abilities we gained in the process, it definitely did add more to some jobs than others though. All of my favorite jobs got a lot out of it, even PUP became considerably more useful. I accept that time goes on and MMOs change over time.

Nobody seems to miss 50 cap, or 65 cap, or 80 cap. Why? Because the game didn't stay in any of those spots for very long. 75 cap stayed for a long time, so people were used to it, it was that simple.

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I am the opposite, they took too long to increase the level cap and that's the real reason ppl got attached to it. I like the new range of abilities we gained in the process,

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No, they already turned FFXI into XIV fast paced battle endgame. People use third party tools to track us and even on voice chat (I can't use it). Too much stressful being a RDM.

I like the old way. Slow paced battle that gives us time to type and chat.

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Originally Posted by Tarmarkvar

You are not paying for updates. You were never paying for updates. Stop using that idiotic strawman. You are paying for use of an online service.

People have been quitting this game for 20 years. The management at Square Enix is perfectly aware of this fact. I quit for 3 years at one point from August 2017 to about the time in 2020 when Voracious Resurgence was announced. Somehow the game survived without me.

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What stupid logic honestly, lets all quit then en masse and see how it does for the game. Obiously they are going to shut it down, clearly a quitter like you couldn't care less. I hate those players that quit for years and come back and try to dissuade others from caring about the game. One day you aren't going to have something to return to. We don't just pay for an online service, theres an obvious obligation that comes with an online game and subscribers. If you don't have new content or things for them to do, you are going to get less revenue.

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Originally Posted by Zehira

No, they already turned FFXI into XIV fast paced battle endgame. People use third party tools to track us and even on voice chat (I can't use it). Too much stressful being a RDM.

I like the old way. Slow paced battle that gives us time to type and chat.

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Only the hardest of fights like Odyssey v25 are like that. Everything else is still slow paced, you can easily chat in an Odyseey segment farm that doesn't take itself too seriously. You can chat in Ambuscade, you can chat in EP parties, you can chat in HtB. The list goes on, so really its a silly excuse.

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Originally Posted by Immortal

so really its a silly excuse.

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Everyone has a different taste, unfortunately.

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No, they already turned FFXI into XIV fast paced battle endgame.

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What? lol

Even with everything that's come since, FFXI doesn't have one tenth the pace of FFXIV. It's impossible when everything is menu and macro driven and everything takes like 3 seconds after pressing to happen. FFXI couldn't be as fast as FFXIV if it wanted to, the engine just wasn't designed for it, especially since the networking is deliberately bottlenecked at dialup speeds.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

It's impossible when everything is menu and macro driven and everything takes like 3 seconds after pressing to happen. FFXI couldn't be as fast as FFXIV if it wanted to, the engine just wasn't designed for it,

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Sort of, you are right. Dynamis-D is a perfect example for that. Everything seems to go wrong by too many players and enemies. Unless upgrade the engine if SE must have to, FFXI was never meant for that. In reality, retail is very overwhelming for the most of FFXI veterans.

The only reason they play on an unofficial server is they feel Vana'diel is alive. Most of them are very helpful and friendly (unlike Asura) and are fun to play with. That's why they want a classic server even though the biggest issue is that SE couldn't able to police the game to keep everything civilized.

In America, it's very hard to sue HorizonXI due to the fact they all work for free. Like I thought maybe one day SE could just buy HorizonXI and make it official. They are the only experienced GMs I know that exist.

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Originally Posted by Immortal

What stupid logic honestly, lets all quit then en masse and see how it does for the game. Obiously they are going to shut it down, clearly a quitter like you couldn't care less. I hate those players that quit for years and come back and try to dissuade others from caring about the game. One day you aren't going to have something to return to. We don't just pay for an online service, theres an obvious obligation that comes with an online game and subscribers. If you don't have new content or things for them to do, you are going to get less revenue.

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Just because you want updates doesn't mean their argument is "stupid". You pay to access the game, and that is the fact

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Originally Posted by Immortal

What stupid logic honestly, lets all quit then en masse and see how it does for the game. Obiously they are going to shut it down, clearly a quitter like you couldn't care less. I hate those players that quit for years and come back and try to dissuade others from caring about the game. One day you aren't going to have something to return to. We don't just pay for an online service, theres an obvious obligation that comes with an online game and subscribers. If you don't have new content or things for them to do, you are going to get less revenue.

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So was I supposed to pay a monthly subscription for a service I didn't use?

Of course they would lose money if they never added any new content. That doesn't mean new content is a right. It just means that it's probably a good business decision for as long as the people who actually have access to the company's financial data decide it's not.

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good business decision

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they are throwing money into nfts

their new ff game has a slow burn intellectual story with action combat

these people have no idea what they are doing

I find it amusing FF11 is older than Square Enix.

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In America, it's very hard to sue HorizonXI due to the fact they all work for free. Like I thought maybe one day SE could just buy HorizonXI and make it official. They are the only experienced GMs I know that exist.

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You don't have to make money to get content matched online or get DMCA takedown'd. Now, if they did collect money for the service that would almost certainly trigger SE to go after them if they found out about it.

Nintendo is infamous for shutting down fan projects even where no money is involved.

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I hate those players that quit for years and come back and try to dissuade others from caring about the game.

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I've never truly quit, nor do I want people to not care about the game. But I also don't think people should put up with something they feel is constantly giving them the finger like in your case. If you're not having a good time, I would encourage you to find an activity that you do find enjoyable, nobody should be doing things they aren't happy doing.

All I've been trying to tell you this whole time is SE is going to do whatever will make them the most money. And developing major new expansions or makeovers for FFXI with tons of new content is not likely to give them anywhere near the payoff on their investment as if they spent those resources on something new. Complaining here and making fales statements about that other game you feel is somehow responsible for all of this (even though it isn't) is not going to persuade them to invest more in FFXI. it's going to take way, way more than the dozen or so of us who post on the forums to convince SE that it would be worth investing a lot of money into FFXI again.

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In America, it's very hard to sue HorizonXI due to the fact they all work for free. Like I thought maybe one day SE could just buy HorizonXI and make it official. They are the only experienced GMs I know that exist.

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They do make money, do a quick google search for "gil buy horizon ffxi" marvel at the vast amount of it you can buy and the vast amount buying it. It's one server with 10 people working on it, it's not hard to understand they are the ones selling it. Because of course they are, why wouldn't they be? There is massive demand, it's free money since they can make 99999999999999gil from gm commands and they are not a legit company where this would be awful PR. It's just some guys you never heard of, that can shut the discord and website and disappear tomorrow. You don't even know their real names.

When you're running a PS people install you can do whatever you want, you''re not running a legal business in the first place where they worry about breaking business laws or ruining their reputation. They can have key loggers running on your computer when it's running if they want to harvest your steam, wow, bank, ff11 account passwords, to sell or hack you 1-2 years from now or if they get closed down. They can do anything they want. They can have no keyloggers for a few months when people could check for them, then install one with a patch months later and then remove them again a week later.

Are you smart enough to know if they were doing that? no you're not, you're tech illiterate and you're installing who the knows what from who knows who and allowing them to update it anytime they feel like it with whatever they want. You're putting all this trust in not only them being honest, but them being smart enough to not get hacked by someone else and hijack their service to install stuff on your computer.

Where does all this trust come from? you want to know the sad part? you're trusting it because its FFXI, you're overlaying the trust in the game and company onto literal nobodies on the internet who are running a wtf version they smashed together from bits and pieces.

Do they operate a game for a company you could sue? no, if they closed down tomorrow you wouldn't even know how to find them at all.

It's amazing how stupid people are and how trusting they are of literal nobodies asking you to install software that is being updated all the time.

Here is a bit of advice: If people are spending a lot of money every month to run something for free (and btw the more users they have the more expensive it is in hosting fees), they have some way they have plannend to make money they are losing off it. If you don't know how they plan to make money, you should be really worried about it.

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Originally Posted by Pixela

They do make money, do a quick google search for "gil buy horizon ffxi" marvel at the vast amount of it you can buy and the vast amount buying it. It's one server with 10 people working on it, it's not hard to understand they are the ones selling it. Because of course they are, why wouldn't they be? There is massive demand, it's free money since they can make 99999999999999gil from gm commands and they are not a legit company where this would be awful PR. It's just some guys you never heard of, that can shut the discord and website and disappear tomorrow. You don't even know their real names.

When you're running a PS people install you can do whatever you want, you''re not running a legal business in the first place where they worry about breaking business laws or ruining their reputation. They can have key loggers running on your computer when it's running if they want to harvest your steam, wow, bank, ff11 account passwords, to sell or hack you 1-2 years from now or if they get closed down. They can do anything they want. They can have no keyloggers for a few months when people could check for them, then install one with a patch months later and then remove them again a week later.

Are you smart enough to know if they were doing that? no you're not, you're tech illiterate and you're installing who the knows what from who knows who and allowing them to update it anytime they feel like it with whatever they want. You're putting all this trust in not only them being honest, but them being smart enough to not get hacked by someone else and hijack their service to install stuff on your computer.

Where does all this trust come from? you want to know the sad part? you're trusting it because its FFXI, you're overlaying the trust in the game and company onto literal nobodies on the internet who are running a wtf version they smashed together from bits and pieces.

Do they operate a game for a company you could sue? no, if they closed down tomorrow you wouldn't even know how to find them at all.

It's amazing how stupid people are and how trusting they are of literal nobodies asking you to install software that is being updated all the time.

Here is a bit of advice: If people are spending a lot of money every month to run something for free (and btw the more users they have the more expensive it is in hosting fees), they have some way they have plannend to make money they are losing off it. If you don't know how they plan to make money, you should be really worried about it.

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Conspiracy theory of gil selling. Conspiracy theory of keylogging players, conspiracy of hijacking and installing things to players PCs. Then says people are stupid for essentially participating and that there must be a plan to profit.

Pix is big mad.

Prove they are not doing these things, or if you prefer tell me why you trust them so much to not do those things.

Reply fast as you may have already won a million dollars Mr Spicy Ryan, all you have to do is give me your bank account details. Reply fast!

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Are you smart enough to know if they were doing that? no you're not, you're tech illiterate

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Hilarious because I am an old-fashioned programmer, web designer, SQL manager, Photoshop expert and many more. All the things I learned from college more than a decade ago (Yes, I forgot a lot). I started learning how to use Blender to make models in XIV after I learned how in XI.

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Originally Posted by Zehira

Hilarious because I am an old-fashioned programmer, web designer, SQL manager, Photoshop expert and many more. All the things I learned from college more than a decade ago (Yes, I forgot a lot). I started learning how to use Blender to make models in XIV after I learned how in XI.

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Sure you are, which is why you gave a program access through your firewall even though you have no idea what is in it.

What checks have you done on it? Wow me with your tech skills rite about naow.

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Originally Posted by Pixela

Sure you are, which is why you gave a program access through your firewall even though you have no idea what is in it.

What checks have you done on it? Wow me with your tech skills rite about naow.

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Internet stuff was the first thing I learned when I was a senior before anything. It was the hardest thing to study.

It's amazing to me that people just install this stuff and think nothing of it at all and give it access through their firewall and are told any virus warnings are false positivies, not only once but multiple ones. how many have you installed? 2-3?

You do know there are bad people out there right? We don't really live in the carebear kingdom.

If you're right and they didn't do anything nothing happens, if I'm right you're screwed cause you gave full access to your pc with the potential of key loggers to steal every user name and password you enter for everything. Plus it's not an instant thing, they can keep hold of that stuff for months or years before taking advantage of it.

I dunno, I don't like the odds but you do you.

I can trust Square Enix cause it's a billion dollar company and I'm a customer giving them money for a service, some guys in their bedroom offering me a free deal they spend thousands of dollars a month in hosting fees for...not so much though.

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I dunno, I don't like the odds but you do you.

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I wouldn't worry. It is installed on my Microsoft Surface Pro 3 with no personal info with a Brave web browser and total security program. Nothing can be trusted even Duckduckgo told you they don't track your info.

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Originally Posted by Pixela

Prove they are not doing these things, or if you prefer tell me why you trust them so much to not do those things.

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That's absolutely not how debate works. You don't make wild assertions and then tell people to prove you wrong. You make assertions, present your evidence for those assertions, and then challenge other people to dispute your evidence. Otherwise I could tell you, for example, to prove to me that you don't murder hobos for fun.

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Originally Posted by Pixela

I mean really.

TLDR: If people still like Chess, make more Chess boards and don't try make super intergalatic blackhole 4d chOss'.

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https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...Pg_460swp.webp

sorry, saw the meme, reminded me of the post. Had to do it.

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Originally Posted by Tarmarkvar

That's absolutely not how debate works. You don't make wild assertions and then tell people to prove you wrong. You make assertions, present your evidence for those assertions, and then challenge other people to dispute your evidence. Otherwise I could tell you, for example, to prove to me that you don't murder hobos for fun.

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Spicy is a pain in the ass, he just says things all the time to be annoying and does it on purpose. Which is why I don't spend much time replying to him at all, at least not here.

The original point I made is perfectly valid and you know it is, if I gave you a link to a random exe would you download and install it? Because that's what these people are doing, and again it's not just with this specific server either because they download any that offers one like it's nothing.

Most of these "developers" don't even really make anything, they just download the entire package from github and install it on a server. There isn't much work to set one up and inject some naughty things into them.

There is no validation, there is no objective safety, it's all purely trust and you're trusting people you don't even know and that could disappear in a puff of smoke tomorrow. There could be a bad actor that joins the team months from now, and you keep getting updates to this gigs worth of software not knowing what it's doing.

People have way too much positivity bias, and it is idiocy given how much they can make stripping your account and selling all your assets.

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Originally Posted by Voidstorm

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...Pg_460swp.webp

sorry, saw the meme, reminded me of the post. Had to do it.

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I assumed Pixela visited HorizonXI's website to see my linkshell name. I joined few months ago anyway.

On retail, all we see is complain, complain, research, research, complain, complain...

On a private server, we just play, chat, share sweet memories, laugh at bugged things, and have fun. Not bad for free.

If developers from SE got tired of this game and want to move on to something new then I can understand but why can't some players just quit this game...? Mithra-fever?

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Originally Posted by Tarmarkvar

That's absolutely not how debate works. You don't make wild assertions and then tell people to prove you wrong. You make assertions, present your evidence for those assertions, and then challenge other people to dispute your evidence. Otherwise I could tell you, for example, to prove to me that you don't murder hobos for fun.

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I've been trying to explain this for years, they'll never get it. You ask this guy for proof he either says "its ez to find go find it urself" or doesn't prove anything at all ever. It's up to the person making the claims to convince others that they are correct. Given the other person takes the opposite position, they aren't going to seek out info to prove themselves wrong nor are they obligated to.

I don't know if or who is selling gil on a private server and I don't care, it's kind of a moot point when the whole thing is illegitimate in the first place. While Pixela is pulling a bunch of crap out of nowhere, people are using that private server to play the game for free and it does damage the game by them so doing.

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You ask this guy for proof he either says "its ez to find go find it urself" or doesn't prove anything at all ever.

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Still mad you lose every argument I see, pathetic.

https://i.imgur.com/w6JDlEy.jpg

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Still mad you lose every argument I see, pathetic.

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You can't lose an argument when there is no argument, as you don't have one.

What you have is just a bunch of words that mean nothing, even the words that try to mean something fail to make an argument because you provide nothing to support them. You talk about budgets all the time, you've never linked to the budget you saw that made you say that. Clearly, you didn't go through the lessons they taught in high school/secondary school where they teach you to cite your sources.

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Originally Posted by Zehira

On retail, all we see is complain, complain, research, research, complain, complain...

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Sounds like you need to surround yourself with better people. Also, I've heard many complaints about private servers, including the one you referenced.

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Originally Posted by Catmato

Sounds like you need to surround yourself with better people. Also, I've heard many complaints about private servers, including the one you referenced.

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Private servers are far far far far from perfection, you know what, they don't care. They will do anything to destroy SE's oldest/outdated game, FF11... (for not having their desires met). I am not sure what complaints you have heard about them... It's just free to play.

What I understood, HorizonXI is trying something different than what Eden and Wings failed to do.

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It's just free to play.

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What I understood, HorizonXI is trying something different than what Eden and Wings failed to do.

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Well they all have one thing in common: They're all violating Square-Enix's rights, and they're all costing SE money, and they're all harming the live game. Maybe that's what they want. Doesn't make it right.

And to be clear, I like the game as it is now. I don't want to be capped to 75, I don't want broken content/mechanics/whatever else, I don't mind paying a sub and I don't want what those servers offer. And they all jeapordize the rest of ours' ability to play the official game.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

And to be clear, I like the game as it is now. I don't want to be capped to 75, I don't want broken content/mechanics/whatever else, I don't mind paying a sub and I don't want what those servers offer. And they all jeapordize the rest of ours' ability to play the official game.

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That's a good message. Well even if SE let them know there is no plan for either a classic server or remake or whatever then everything will stop but SE has not said anything.

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Originally Posted by Zehira

SE's oldest/outdated game

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I have no idea why people reference the age of a game.

It boils down to two things. You either like playing it, or you don't - simples.

There are huge communities of people that regularly play games from the 80's.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

You can't lose an argument when there is no argument, as you don't have one.

What you have is just a bunch of words that mean nothing, even the words that try to mean something fail to make an argument because you provide nothing to support them. You talk about budgets all the time, you've never linked to the budget you saw that made you say that. Clearly, you didn't go through the lessons they taught in high school/secondary school where they teach you to cite your sources.

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Pathetic .

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Originally Posted by Sirmarki

I have no idea why people reference the age of a game.

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Still look confused? Retail is designed for bots to have fun. That fact.

I'd say try the one I referenced. Your jaw drops to the floor and your eyes to grow wider and wider about how they keep it cleaned up for the most part. ;)

There are fish bots literally everywhere in every town on that server you mentioned, chocobo digging is botted, mining is botted and "app'd" and gil selling is the main reason the server exists. I try not to be mean about you, but you're completely oblivious.

You just report them and they will look it up. I saw you posted stuff on FFXIAH complaining about that and your posts got nuked by admin.

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Originally Posted by Pixela

Pathetic .

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What's pathetic is your unwillingness to back up what you say and then act as if you've "won."

When you argue everyone else is automatically the winner because you don't defend your position, you just keep repeating unproven nonsense until people get sick of talking to you.

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You just report them and they will look it up. I saw you posted stuff on FFXIAH complaining about that and your posts got nuked by admin.

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Did you do that google search i suggested, they have great deals on gil you can take advantage of.

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Originally Posted by Pixela

Did you do that google search i suggested, they have great deals on gil you can take advantage of.

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It's not my job to do google searches for you. It's your job to link the specific sources yourself. If all you can remember is the search terms you used, well, sucks to be you. I'm not going to do your research for you. You STILL don't understand that you have to prove your arguments when questioned. I'm not going to prove what I don't agree with for you. Provide an actual URL to an actual source.

If I put in the references section of my papers in college, "Google search for 'Fried Chicken Wings'" instead of a link to an actual article on the subject, my paper would get sent back to me with an F.

Likewise, your argument gets an F for not citing sources.

keep the unrelated arguments you never win in the correct threads.