[Dev 1009] Force Pop HNM's FTW

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andylynn

3 days is nothing really >_>; personally, do we really need another bandwagon mnk lying around parties not pulling its weight? No offense to you, just saying it tends to happen.

---

He's kidding. CS has had Mnk, BB, and pretty top notch gear for ages.

I keep hearing about these bandwagon jobs, but I have yet to experience one. I guess thats what happens when the quality of people you hang out with are the same as yourself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsuneo

I keep hearing about these bandwagon jobs, but I have yet to experience one. I guess thats what happens when the quality of people you hang out with are the same as yourself.

---

idk man, Andylynn has like a Gungnir and shit on his mule. I was under the impression he was pretty pro.

Quote:

---

Fafnir : Wyrm Beard removed
Nidhogg : Drop rate of Wyrm Beard decreased
Behemoth : Behemoth Tongue removed
King Behemoth : Drop rate of Behemoth Tongue decreased
Adamantoise : Adamantoise Egg removed
Aspidochelone : Drop rate of Adamantoise Egg decreased

---

I really don't get why they had to take the drops from the NQ versions. Rates were already pretty low as they were. now you have to kill both, and they are taking away the 100% drop on the 2nd fight. Granted, we don't know what that reduced rate will be now, it could be high like 1/2 or 2/3 or something--if you don't get it on the first try, have to go back and start over and do all 3 fights again. If you still had a small chance of getting them from the NQ version it wouldn't be so bad--you would STILL have to do two fights to have a shot at getting it from the NQ (KSNM99 for pop item, then kill the NQ). Taking them away from the NQ ones I think is really unnecessary.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

Wtf @ this update. Did I just lv to 90 my mnk for nothing -.-. This update is going to drive the price up at camps because now the ls' have to use their KS to pop these nms.

FML. I just wanted to get my black belt and finish capping my h2h so I could be a good tank for my group.

Really, if they're going to go through w/ this, SE better give me my 3 days back that I spent on mnk. I could have been studying or something.

---

Sarcasm is really hard to pull off in text form. Well done sir.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsuneo

I keep hearing about these bandwagon jobs, but I have yet to experience one. I guess thats what happens when the quality of people you hang out with are the same as yourself.

---

MNK, WAR, NIN; the one's you see commonly in the occasional exp party wearing low level equipment, and cruor gear sets.

Quote:

---

idk man, Andylynn has like a Gungnir and shit on his mule. I was under the impression he was pretty pro

---

hurr i trollz, i thinkz i pro 2.

What I'm saying is those people never affected me to begin with. I don't see how this will fix people having to deal with gimps though. There isn't a way to fix people choosing to play wrong.

I am a tad confused. Will BB items still be a possible drop in KS99's after the update? Or am I reading thet SE has now made it even more frustrating to get those BB items with a REDUCED drop rate from HQ Land Kings and NO drop at all from NQ after you do the KS99's for a 100% drop pop item? This is not what was asked for or suggested at all. This forum in general asked for reduced spawn times of Land Kings - success, we asked for drop rates from NQ Land Kings or the KS99's to be improved, not removed -fail. Getting pop items to force spawn Kings was suggested, but not with the conditions SE have come up with. I also know that we have to accept some kind of trade off for the reduced timers, but, this is too severe. I have no issue with obtaining KS, they drop like candy levels 36+ in non-abyssea areas, but to earn them and have the option to do KS99's with a chance of getting the BB item without having to do the Land Kings is, I am hoping still there. Well, it will be at least until the update anyway. OMG SE......................I shake my head at you. (runs off to do her KS99's and finish BB before the update).

Yes, they will still be a possible drop from KS99. Nowhere does it mention changing that drop at all.

From the way it looks KSNM's drop rates will remain unchanged, NQ's won't be able to drop them anymore and the items to pop the HQ's are not 100% either, as well as the HQ's not being a 100% on the black belt items as well.

which is where I see the problem coming in especially if you farm 99 seals not to get a HQ pop item from the NQ.

Seeing as Kindred seals cannot drop more than once per 5 minutes unless you form an alliance in which case it is 3 drops per 5 minutes maximum, and considering it is subject to treasure hunter, I say 99 kindred seals require a minimum of 3 hours with super luck, and realistically (TH limitations) probably double of this time. 6 hours for 1 behemoth BCNM = 1 behemoth = random chance at King Behemoth. You are probably looking 400 seals for 1 king behemoth or 24 hours of farming. WTF were they thinking.

edit : just realised they wanted it to be as much cock blocking as camping it : 24 H respawn NM, and 1/4 chance of HQ version of the NM (or something like this) means the average joe would spend on average 4 evenings of 6 hours until he sees an HQ >_>. That's propably how they thought it lol.

Greatguardian: Thanks :) I didn't see it mentioned either that drops from KS99's would be removed. You just never know with SE though..................

I like the idea and personally don't care too much (depends on the possible augments on kings gear) but to make the trig drop only from KS99 and then remove the BB items from NQ and make HQ not 100% is just so SE-like. Just missing the confirmation that the trigs are not 100% from NQ or BC. Gogo 1k KS for a try at KB and then still 1% chance for D Ring woot!

Hope developers really read those forums and add other possibilities to get the pop items or lower KS needed for those BCs to 30 or so at least. Atm Id rather stick with the 24hr repop than with this shitty method.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Henihhi

And let me repeat- you got exactly what you asked for by blowing these forums up complaining about hnm and abyssea, now maybe you will think a bit before you spew stupid.

---

You're my hero.

I just hope they increase the drop rate for D ring, thats the only thing I never got =[

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsuneo

Except people who made money off their KS's. I used majority of my KS back when Royale Ramble had a decent payout, so yeah not every is sitting on thousands of seals.

Buying black belts item isn't even a relevant topic nowadays. Unless someone is specifically there for the black belt item those NMs can just sit up for hours. So not having to buy the items is a poor excuse for the changes.

People always had an alternative to king gear. Majority of people wanted to cry about king gear, but at the same time were too lazy to do the alternative. I personally got my Ebody from Einherjar.

---

It's not even that. People have just been givin another chance at obtaining items for Black Belt. Let's be straight up about that belt tho. It's a broken item and always has been. It's one of those items that easily can push a MNK over the haste cap and is still considered one of the premier Haste items in the game for the one job that can use it.

I'm personally happy this is being done. Kings were outdated for awhile but and even tho I got most of the shinys I wanted off him ages ago a Ridill somehow being the last item I obtained, I still like fighting the damn thing. The change is coming so more power to people like myself who saved up a ton of seals for the hell of it.

Oh and I got my Kbody off Einherjar and my Dalmy off another shell's wiped Nidhogg. lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Runespider

For people unable to claim with bots this is far fairer and they might actually get to fight them, as for the gear being obsolete...if that were teh case nobody would care one way or the other. It simply isn't the case, a good portion of them are still desired.

---

Thank you for pointing out that there are quite a few folks, such as myself, who would love to fight these HNMs--since camping them was wayyyyy too time consuming. Now SE has given me a chance to at least experience these fights...regardless of the pops.

Gone are the days of camping for hours and hours and days and days...then to lose the mob to a botter...

I still don't understand why botting is being discussed. It really isn't relevant to the condition that HNMs are in at the moment. Sure they were pretty heavily botted, but those days were gone even before this update.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andylynn

MNK, WAR, NIN; the one's you see commonly in the occasional exp party wearing low level equipment, and cruor gear sets.


hurr i trollz, i thinkz i pro 2.

---

/sigh, no-one is ever happy about any of FFXI jobs, crap gear or otherwise, always has to be someone complaining.

This is the worst idea ever. Its nice you need a item to pop the NM now but how you get it is crap. Ppl don´t wanna go back to the old camps and farm KS just for this. The 3 NM's drop crap these days, well maybe beside 1 or 2 items and decreasing the drop rate / removing the BB items don´t really help to encourage ppl to do the NM's and/or farm KS anymore.

the Achilles heal of this update will be one things:

Are they making D ring obtainable without a year commitment?

I hate all these people that are pro-change on this, I leveled all but PUP COR DNC and SCH to 75 via good old fashion grinding, I am not going to be "oh boy i can xp in this camp again" most of them sucked, most of them I'm stilling have nightmares over... in the tree on crabs xping 50ish, "Incoming Aquarius" > wipe. "Anyone have RR?" no, i didnt put it up after that water elemental wiped us. Good times! I have friends that I have been camping Behe for for the tongue, when they're on, I can sit in BD for a few hours do homework and not be bothered to do anything til the time he told me to kill it at so he could be home in time. This update changes it to, "lemme use your KS99 for worthless loot" and i get "im doing homework like i did when we were camping" now if the monster actually dropped the mythical D ring, then i'd be "i'll be right on it, i wont play game boy and i'll actually blink tank" i used to camp d ring daily with an HNM and stopped after leaving the shell only because a friend yelled at me for camping against her... again if the items, less the black belt, aren't worth the effort put in because the dragon hearts that used to sell for 40k now sell to NPCs for 7k, more than the 4k on the AH... or the Behe hides which are now 40k, if that, this update is truly just making the monk's life harder.

for those people saying "don't complain about having to work for your item", you'll be doing more work for less results, about 2 to 4 weeks for a pop item if you have something like school or work or a wife or kids for something with a lower drop rate than it used to ... where as you could wake up at 2 am find a friend or two to kill an NM sitting... yes im complaining about doing MORE WORK for LESS

but maybe im the rare group that hopes that we can do something fun with void walkers, and hopes pld is the preferred tank, also a good way to get people out of abyssea isn't to make them farm KS, it would be adding level 90 gear to NMs outside of it that aren't insanely hard to kill. the only reason we stay in abbyssea is because even ares's body was bested by a shinryu drop -.- I COMPLAIN ABOUT HAVING TO DO MORE WORK FOR LESS THAN THE LEVEL 90 STUFF BECAUSE I'VE BEEN PLAYING FOR 7 YEARS AND SOME OF THIS STUFF SEEMS AS IF IT WAS GIVEN TO NEW PLAYERS LIKE A BIRTH RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and they didnt add challenge they added time syncs since the level cap breached what else would you call having to get 8 to 10 items off an NM to get a piece of gear when prior to abyssea we had the same things with about the same drop rates, less the !!, from gods and kings... ridill is about the same drop rate as a bullwhip belt if you don't get the !!... just think about that

years too late. on my server there's only 1 pt camping fafnir and most time there are only 15 ppl camping for nidhogg.
also now u have to farm KS, say you are lucky and u get 5 of them in 1 hour it takes 20 hours to get a KSNM pop item then u need to do the KSNM > the t1 NM > t2 NM.
ok that it is possible to do the t2 immediately after the t1 is a pro.
no competition is a pro too (but to be honest there is not much competition anymore)
but the time spend to get the pop is a con. u need to spend hours to get it. now u just get ToD and then u have a 3 hours window of camping.

Not gonna lie, y'all. Only things I'm going to be killing these for are Nlegs for Chant du Cynge, Ridill for my SAMlulz, and DRing. I'll probably be flooring/selling BB items, and so will half of the playerbase. If you're honestly worried about KS drop rates and BB items, go to Abyssea, Cruor burn some stuff with some friends (or solo, whatever), turn the Cruor into Gil via Chocobo Blinkers or whatever they're called, and buy the BB items.

D-ring for all, The real question is how is King behemoth gonna be spawned from the ??? ? More pops you use the greater it has a chance to spawn? Or will it be like 90% behemoth, 10% King behemoth, 10% D-Ring, 90% junk.

I think they need to add some good rewards back to Cerebus, Kchimra and Hydra. I would like to see those HNMs have more spotlight. Start by adding Aug Quests for the currect rewards they already give out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Venat

D-ring for all, The real question is how is King behemoth gonna be spawned from the ??? ? More pops you use the greater it has a chance to spawn? Or will it be like 90% behemoth, 10% King behemoth, 10% D-Ring, 90% junk.

I think they need to add some good rewards back to Cerebus, Kchimra and Hydra. I would like to see those HNMs have more spotlight. Start by adding Aug Quests for the currect rewards they already give out.

---

Er, well, I'm assuming they're making two ???s anyways. The pop for the NQ is dropped from the KSNM, and the pop for the HQ is dropped by the NQ, so it's not a random pop between the two. You kill Behemoth in order to get a pop for King Behemoth.

As for ToAU Kings, isn't Cerberus still broken? Last I heard, he was taking like 1-digit damage from melee attacks and shit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Venat

D-ring for all, The real question is how is King behemoth gonna be spawned from the ??? ? More pops you use the greater it has a chance to spawn? Or will it be like 90% behemoth, 10% King behemoth, 10% D-Ring, 90% junk.

I think they need to add some good rewards back to Cerebus, Kchimra and Hydra. I would like to see those HNMs have more spotlight. Start by adding Aug Quests for the currect rewards they already give out.

---

They don't share a pop. For example if you have a Behemoth pop you have a chance of getting a King Behemoth pop from killing Behemoth.

I'm willing to bet 50% of the playerbase will even do these new KS99/Hnm 40% being ppl looking for BB items and the other 10% just spamming for dring. While that other 50% will be in abyssea, I personally don't like the system nor do I even need to do hnm at all. It could have been put together far better by SE.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rambus

Does not matter if people have stored KS, that is a weak pro-argument for this update.

you are basically saying screw you to newer players and players that do not have many KS from trying to get said items in the past.

do you guys understand how the system wil work based on notes???

get 99 KS

enter KSNM

get a small chance of BB item with useless crap no one buys anymore and at lest 1 pop item for NQ

pop NQ

do not get BB item
Do not get HQ item even after a few attempts.

system is good? ya right

---

now it is:
get 99 KS

enter KSNM

get a small chance of BB item with useless crap no one buys anymore.(the exact same chance it will be after)
OR:
go to HNM camp, get a little chance it's up and unclaim
case 1: HQ unclaim: profit
case 2: NQ unclaim: get liitle chance to get item
case 3: camp for undefined amount of timed

I am very against the blackbelt item adjustments, I dont like monk and will never get it, but for those who do want it, at least before they always had a chance, the only tough one was fafnir imo the others barely got camped (from my own experience).

Making it not pop off 1 mob then decreasing it on another, which you might not even be able to fight without a good bunch of friends and you still have to get pop item which we dont knoe drop rate for yet.

I dont know if I like the idea of it requiring KS's tho, I dont remember how fast they come in so will have to go farming for a day and see how many I collect up. But BB will need like 1000 lol prolly more before you get drop, hope ur friends do it a lot XD

I really dont buy the "give people a reason to exp outside of abyssea" rally I saw going on. I leveled several jobs pre-abyssea and I barely have 240ish ks's. I dont think this is a good idea. They should either lower the ks required for ks99's (which at that point they wouldnt be ksnm 99's) or they should make the pop items like ENMS. I think the ENM KI pop idea is the best idea for the situation everyone gets a chance at the t1 every day/couple of days and can get a pop for the hq @ 20-33% chance. Most people are only killing these nms for an antiquated drop they've always wanted its not like it will break the game to make them more readily available and they can drop the drop rates on bb items. I'd prolly QQ to see more stupidly geared mnks wearing blackbelts but at least the requirements to pop these nms wont be retarded.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Runespider

It's an MMO, duh? This will still be better than the previous system, far far more people will get to fight them than ever before.

---

It is indeed an MMO, however the majority of MMOs I've played and currently play aren't built around such a two sided update regimen.

It's mostly the fact that they tend throw you into content that get rarely utilized in order to do what you wanted. There's nothing wrong with having to do prerequisites...but it's the type of prereqs that tend to be laid before you. It is better than open world claim, but it's still going to be the same general few spamming it unless the item vanishes after use.

Seriously, this is a ridiculous method, and removing the drops from the NQ as well as nerfing the drop rate on the HQs is just plain stupid. 99 KS for a CHANGE at MAYBE getting it... either make it 100% off of HQs and 50% off of NQs or leave it as is.

Hey, y'all wanted the chance to fight these HNMs without fighting bots or camping at odd hours of the day or night, and now you have it.

And yet people bitch anyways. So predictable.

I guarantee that most of you have a few friends who built up a ton of Kindred Seals while upgrading several Magian weapons. I'm one of them. I'm sitting on about 900 KS. Gather together a few friends with 2-3 orbs, and a single party can probably work their way from KS99s to killing a few HQ kings in an evening. In this scenario, a MNK would have 4-6 chances for a BB item to drop. Within a few hours. Forgive me while I play my tiny violin.

God forbid SE makes KS99s worthwhile again. God forbid SE makes HNM fights accessible to anyone with friends and a halfway-functional brain. God forbid SE updates non-Abyssea content to make it accessible and worthwhile. Isn't this the kind of content you people on the anti-Abyssea bandwagon have been crying and begging for?

What the fuck is wrong with you all?

Any MNK with half a brain will have no problem getting their BB. And guess what? Their friends will get to fight HNMs and pick up a few toys along the way.

Go ahead. Sit here and complain all you want. This will end up just like Abyssea. The people who grab their friends, head out, and try to accomplish something will generally have a good time while the rest of you will sit in Port Jeuno and cry endlessly about the terrible new content despite the fact that you've barely scraped the surface of said content and accomplished fuck all.

(Sorry for the profanity, but how clueless can people be? These forums are endlessly frustrating.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Staren

I really dont buy the "give people a reason to exp outside of abyssea" rally I saw going on.

---

It's because greatguardian is trolling the thread like every other. Every one but him agrees that this ajustement makes getting a black belt much harder that what it is now.

Better ajustement would be :
30 Kindred's seals per bcnm
add a chance for fafnir to drop his own pop
allow multiple pops to drop from the KS 99 (you enter with 18 so make it 18 drops ? lol)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarkovChain

It's because greatguardian is trolling the thread like every other. Every one but him agrees that this ajustement makes getting a black belt much harder that what it is now.

---

Nah, only dumb people without friends or gil think this will make a Black Belt harder to get.

I don't see what gil or friend have to do with this. Those KSNM are most likely easy duo at 90 for one, and for two you don't need gill to enter them do you ? If you expect to get people to give you their kindred's seal and waste their time travelling to to do the KSNMs, instead of doing abyssea, you are wrong. Money has no value right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarkovChain

I don't see what gil or friend have to do with this.

---

Of course you wouldn't.

You run too quickly out of argument, simple math consideration tell you how retarded it is.

This is a great update for people who don't have the time for old-style HNM shells to have to bot for anymore.

Yeah, it sucks that the BB item would no longer be from NQ mobs, but the NMs are not that hard anymore. 6 people could kill them back at 75, 6 people who aren't as good can kill them at 90+ now.

Maybe this is SEs sign that BLUs will be learning HNM moves soon?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarkovChain

You run too quickly out of argument, simple math consideration tell you how retarded it is.

---

Really? You can't see how easy it is to have two chances (KS99 and HQ HNM) at a BB item whenever you want? Assuming MNKs bring friends (well, not you. people who actually have friends) with their own KS99 orbs who'd like some shiny drop off an HNM, BB items will have even more opportunities to drop.

Yet, this adjustment is somehow worse than camping a 21-24 hour HNM for one chance for a BB item to drop.