question for GM's

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Originally Posted by Trisscar

More evidence that the average player doesn't know the first thing about economics.

People can't spend money if they can't make money. That simple.

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The key factor here is the unspoken suggestion that AFK leechers are all RMTs, whereas everyone earns Cruor (ie. Gil) magically while only one person actually "earns it." This dynamic is what throws economic principles out the window, because gil (money) is being artificially generated and injected directly into the economy.

Unlike in the real world, where systematic checks are in place to control the injection of "new money" into circulation, this does not exist in FFXI. The question becomes "which system is better?"

The system where Gil is hard to come by and uber gear is expensive, or
the system where Gil is easy to come by, and uber gear is proportionally more expensive?

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Originally Posted by Trisscar

More evidence that the average player doesn't know the first thing about economics.

People can't spend money if they can't make money. That simple.

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People can't spend money if the things they wish to spend money on are still to expensive due to increases in price that were caused by increases in overall money that is circulating between players.

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Originally Posted by Llana_Virren

The key factor here is the unspoken suggestion that AFK leechers are all RMTs, whereas everyone earns Cruor (ie. Gil) magically while only one person actually "earns it." This dynamic is what throws economic principles out the window, because gil (money) is being artificially generated and injected directly into the economy.

Unlike in the real world, where systematic checks are in place to control the injection of "new money" into circulation, this does not exist in FFXI. The question becomes "which system is better?"

The system where Gil is hard to come by and uber gear is expensive, or
the system where Gil is easy to come by, and uber gear is proportionally more expensive?

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No. The problem the others have is more to the fact that now easy to come by for the average player, so more people can afford the more expensive gear. This means that these others can't lord over that gear the average player wouldn't have been able to afford in years past like it used to be.

That's all it really is. Pissant ex-elitists who are bitter because they're now no more better than average players.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

People can't spend money if the things they wish to spend money on are still to expensive due to increases in price that were caused by increases in overall money that is circulating between players.

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Higher prices are indicative of a healthy economy. It means that the intended customer (like, for example, me) has enough money that they feel comfortable spending more of it.

I dread the advent of SoA because it likely means a return to when money was a pain in the ass to get.

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Originally Posted by Trisscar

Higher prices are indicative of a healthy economy. It means that the intended customer (like, for example, me) has enough money that they feel comfortable spending more of it.

I dread the advent of SoA because it likely means a return to when money was a pain in the ass to get.

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O.o um.. uh... Lol tell that to the Iranians.

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Originally Posted by Nawesemo

O.o um.. uh... Lol tell that to the Iranians.

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Can we leave real world politics out of this, please?

Also, maybe you can make a relevant argument about what you have against average player being able to make money.

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Originally Posted by Trisscar

Can we leave real world politics out of this, please?

Also, maybe you can make a relevant argument about what you have against average player being able to make money.

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There is nothing average about being able to duo box, fell cleave solo with a pocket whm, or run around with 16 level 30 players in tow. When you say average you need to mean average, the ones who play max 3-4 hours a day, and them being able to farm 1mil gil, and litterally double the amount of gil an item that in 2010 would cost. Higher costing items , doubling in price in months periods of time is a sign of rampant inflation, price gouging, and an unhealthy economy. But hey, its a game, its economy can have these things AND be healthy.... Awesome /sarcasm.

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Originally Posted by Nawesemo

There is nothing average about being able to duo box, fell cleave solo with a pocket whm, or run around with 16 level 30 players in tow. When you say average you need to mean average, the ones who play max 3-4 hours a day, and them being able to farm 1mil gil, and litterally double the amount of gil an item that in 2010 would cost. Higher costing items , doubling in price in months periods of time is a sign of rampant inflation, price gouging, and an unhealthy economy. But hey, its a game, its economy can have these things AND be healthy.... Awesome /sarcasm.

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Imagine when they figure out the average player can be used to farm them 3+ times what they get from cleaving just by setting up cruor burn parties.

Just a bit of fun random facts for "average" players:
In 2-3 hours (factoring in 1 hour setup) of cruor burn partying they'd net 1-1.5 mil gil after conversion.
In 2 hours they could have farmed 1-2mil gil worth of currency in Dynamis. (Edit: based on Bismarck rates)

I have no problem with the average player making money, I am simply trying to point out how doing that isn't going to actually help anything IMO.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

I have no problem with the average player making money, I am simply trying to point out how doing that isn't going to actually help anything IMO.

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Banning RMTs is a lot like arresting and deporting illegal aliens. Sure, it looks good on the news and it makes it seem as its doing some good but it really doesn't in the long run. The way to really disable RMTs is to make it to where their potential customers don't have as much temptation to use their services.

Good way to do that is to increase the ways that legitimate players can proficiently make money.

You know, like making it possible to cruor farm for Gil.

If you were right about the economy you'd see prices continually spiral out of control. But you don't. The prices have inflated, sure, but they are stable at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Trisscar

Higher prices are indicative of a healthy economy. It means that the intended customer (like, for example, me) has enough money that they feel comfortable spending more of it.

I dread the advent of SoA because it likely means a return to when money was a pain in the ass to get.

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Money will never be a pain to get unless they adjusted the blinkers, because that is the easiest method of earning gil out there.

On the flip side, high prices are also indicative of inflation which, if unmanaged, can also collapse an economy.

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Originally Posted by Llana_Virren

Money will never be a pain to get unless they adjusted the blinkers, because that is the easiest method of earning gil out there.

On the flip side, high prices are also indicative of inflation which, if unmanaged, can also collapse an economy.

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Considering that prices have stabilized and doesn't seem to be spiraling out of control, I think it's safe to say that the worst case scenario isn't coming to pass.

This might be a start as It won't effect the average player. We can still have our blinkers but the RMT's will have a much harder time converting because they need to finish limits breakers etc first. I did want to point out that the level 79 gear options would be abused if blinkers got restricted by level.

1. Raise the cap for the mission to level 75.
2. Make the level 79 armors unsellable.

Trophies allow players to buy gear that can't be sold to NPC's this gear can't be npced. The level 79 crurur bought gears it could still be traded or sold at the auction house if they where not bought by npcs.

The chocobo escort mission can't really be done by a level 50 so it shouldn't be available. Also the level 79 armors can't be equipped by a level 30-50 so what other reason would they buy them for? Last since the full set of lvl 79 gear is next to nothing to purchase why are they still available as NPC fodder?

By the time they became capable of converting crurur the STF would of had time to investigate the IP addresses against known RMT IP's or activities. If they do get busted after the limits it will be much more effective then the current system. Currently they automatically gain access to the conversion when they can enter abby.

Too the poster that said dynamis was a better form of money. I think (demon) that mentioned making 1.2 million in an hour. This is most likly solo where you get all the loot. If you was to add a few friends and split currency at the end your profits would plummet even though you can kill faster. Please understand this, by doing a reverse chain I think it makes about 432 thousand gil an hour per person. this amount is NOT SPLIT but multiplied by the group size. If the group is an 18 person alliance they're making plenty more then a same sized group in dynamis.

Conclusion, in dynamis a smaller party makes more profit then Abby but, in abby a larger group can make more then dynamis.

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Originally Posted by Trisscar

Considering that prices have stabilized and doesn't seem to be spiraling out of control, I think it's safe to say that the worst case scenario isn't coming to pass.

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It did once a long time ago.

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Originally Posted by SNK

It did once a long time ago.

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Indeed, I was around for it. I doubt it's ever going to happen again.