FINAL FANTASY XI® Seekers of Adoulin

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Originally Posted by Zeargi

stuff



Now, I'm gonna let you know... THIS MMO was a PS2 original, it was designed and debuted on the PS2 in Japan.

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Now I'm gonna let you know homegirl that the series premiered on the superfamicom. WHY CAN'T I FIGHT JENOVAH ON MY NES?!
^that's how you sound^

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Originally Posted by Zerich

Now I'm gonna let you know homegirl that the series premiered on the superfamicom. WHY CAN'T I FIGHT JENOVAH ON MY NES?!
^that's how you sound^

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I just like to keeps it real.


Also you might want to get your eyes cheek, I'm not your Home girl. ¬_¬

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Originally Posted by Zeargi

I just like to keeps it real.

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it's got to be reeeeeeeeeeeeal

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Originally Posted by Zerich

it's got to be reeeeeeeeeeeeal

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Oh yeah, Bon qui qui, You can have a coke.

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Originally Posted by Zeargi

Oh yeah, Bon qui qui, You can have a coke.

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dis levonisha

Who Bon qui qui...WHO BON QUI QUI?!?!

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Firstly, I'm not trying to convince you. I was just commenting your misplaced craving for factual numbers, because no one can provide those, neither us nor you. Secondly, as I said before, there is evidence, just not hard evidence or proof. It is, however, enough to draw logical implications from it. And finally, if there's no evidence for either argument, there's still no reason to back away. That's when your position turns into a belief. And as long as you recognize that and don't defend it irrationally as a fact, you're free to remain there

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Your so-called evidence is actually a hypothesis, no matter how well thought out or reasonable it seems. Hypothesis is not proof, or evidence. The next step is to actually find and provide data to back up your hypothesis. That's how proper inquiry works. I didn't make up the system but flagrantly disregarding it just shows lazy/incomplete thinking. Obviously, we're going to have to agree to disagree because you and others just don't get that.

And you're quite wrong, I could go and obtain factual numbers. I could go ask every player on my server what system they play on via tells and compile a database reflecting the data. I could then extrapolate the data to reflect other servers and the game as whole using data already collected. Hell, If I was really ambitious I could make a mule on every server and do the same thing for more accurate results. Shit's not hard, just time consuming. But I'm not the one claiming that NA PS2 population levels are so low that it's not cost effective to release an expansion on NA PS2, nor that they are high enough to warrant it (just because I disagree with the former position, doesn't mean I support the latter one). I was just sick of people passing off a hypothesis as fact and started telling people to back that shit up. That's not unreasonable, from the perspective of my profession or on the burden of proof as it relates to western thought as a whole.

At least I attempted to bring evidence to support my belief that PC gaming is of much less importance in Japan (and I could go look through at least fifteen years of gaming and pc magazines that are piled up in my garage for more corroborating evidence). I invited you to bring contrary evidence but you'd rather just pick at mine without showing your hand. You must have a reason for believing what you believe, so please, at least provide a citation. I'm open-minded, if I'm wrong show me, but don't sit there with your thumbs in your ears shouting "la, la, la....I'm right, you're wrong".

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Originally Posted by Zerich

You have to be trolling. I don't want to believe that there are people out there ignorant enough not to understand that printing expansion discs (and SE's favoritism for their JP base(see: FF Agito)) for the PS2 in NA, would not sell well at all in NA.

But seriously, are all the PS2 players on food-stamps or high-schoolers, cause I am scared shitless if they're legit.

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Dude, your response was no less trollish than mine. But if i was going for full-on troll, I would have said something concerning the wormhole and going back in time to tell your father to put on a rubber the night you were conceived, because it's not like you contribute more than trollbait on these forums.

I don't get why people are surprised by this. Leaving PS2 off a full expansion isn't that different than every other game company's games (and SE's other games) that are only released for new systems. For that matter, new versions of an ongoing desktop program eventually require new operating systems. The fact that FFXI started on PS2 is about as relevant as saying MS Office 2010 should be released for Windows 95.

Also, Zerich already said what I've been thinking the whole time more potently than I would. But, it's hard for me to imagine a financial situation where someone would be fine paying $13+ per month to play a game, but is going to complain about a relatively small one-time expenditure to play the upgraded version. It's obviously not my place to tell people how to spend their money, but I'm curious how you're justifying the monthly fee.

One example that makes sense to me is the people whose parents are reluctantly paying for FFXI and those parents would hesitate at bigger costs of enablement. In that case, Christmas is coming before the expansion so you know what to ask for. Put the add for the $20 Black Friday XBox on their pillow.

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Originally Posted by Merton9999

Also, Zerich already said what I've been thinking the whole time more potently than I would. But, it's hard for me to imagine a financial situation where someone would be fine paying $13+ per month to play a game, but is going to complain about a relatively small one-time expenditure to play the upgraded version. It's obviously not my place to tell people how to spend their money, but I'm curious how you're justifying the monthly fee.

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MMO subscriptions are simply one of the cheapest, most cost effective methods in which to game, or to entertain yourself for that matter. A new console game is at least $40-60 and usually doesn't have more than a 2-3 weeks of game time. MMO subscriptions are extremely easy to justify. A whole month of FF is less than a night at the movies, hell, it's less than a full year of public library fees. Of course, if you play more than 8-12 hours a day, your mileage may vary. I always have something to do ingame.

Buying a whole new computer when I already have one (and actually, I have 2 in the household so the wife doesn't have to compete with my pc time)? That's a little more tricky to justify.

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Originally Posted by Aldersyde

MMO subscriptions are simply one of the cheapest, most cost effective methods in which to game, or to entertain yourself for that matter. A new console game is at least $40-60 and usually doesn't have more than a 2-3 weeks of game time. MMO subscriptions are extremely easy to justify. A whole month of FF is less than a night at the movies, hell, it's less than a full year of public library fees. Of course, if you play more than 8-12 hours a day, your mileage may vary. I always have something to do ingame.

Buying a whole new computer when I already have one (and actually, I have 2 in the household so the wife doesn't have to compete with my pc time)? That's a little more tricky to justify.

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I would get that if by "whole new computer" you required it to be a top-of-the-line, all-or-nothing purchase. If your goal is just to play, this doesn't have to be one of those family financial decisions that cancels the kids' Disney vacation for the year. Super-low price options are available, and for that matter, a used XBox would suffice.

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Originally Posted by Llana_Virren

Yes, and I consider this a step towards that final goal of no more PS2. Even if this dream never comes to fruition, knowing that there are fewer retarded NA players on PS2 makes me happy.

I know this comes off rather trollish, and I apologize, but my god, NA players have complained the most in 10 years about how they "deserve more from SE."

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Nice try at making an attack and...

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Originally Posted by Llana_Virren

^and this is exactly why I'm glad NAs can't PS2 in the expansion. Thank you for ignoring the actual message and being butthurt. I appreciate it.

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then pretend you were attacked first. Jeez, the IQ of some people on these boards...

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Originally Posted by Aldersyde

Dude, your response was no less trollish than mine. But if i was going for full-on troll, I would have said something concerning the wormhole and going back in time to tell your father to put on a rubber the night you were conceived, because it's not like you contribute more than trollbait on these forums.

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Oh look, someone who isn't a troll shares my point of view. Must be a troll.

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Originally Posted by Merton9999

I would get that if by "whole new computer" you required it to be a top-of-the-line, all-or-nothing purchase. If your goal is just to play, this doesn't have to be one of those family financial decisions that cancels the kids' Disney vacation for the year. Super-low price options are available, and for that matter, a used XBox would suffice.

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Actually, read through the forums. Shop for computers from wholesale warehouses. Look up how much parts and labor would take to upgrade your computer to run this game on it. It's dirt cheap and runs better.

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Originally Posted by Llana_Virren

Yes, and I consider this a step towards that final goal of no more PS2. Even if this dream never comes to fruition, knowing that there are fewer retarded NA players on PS2 makes me happy.

I know this comes off rather trollish, and I apologize, but my god, NA players have complained the most in 10 years about how they "deserve more from SE."

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SE is somewhat unfair to NA players in general, not only this game. I would love to play the final mix versions of Kingdom Hearts games, or the international versions of FFX & Star Ocean, the version of FFXII with a different ability/spell/gear system. But all of these were never released in NA, people like me who love these games and played them alot have no choice but to buy JP consoles & get the game shipped over seas for the simple pleasure of playing a game you like with extra content never released in your country. As much as I love SE's games I hate how they are with that fact.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

SE is somewhat unfair to NA players in general, not only this game. I would love to play the final mix versions of Kingdom Hearts games, or the international versions of FFX & Star Ocean, the version of FFXII with a different ability/spell/gear system. But all of these were never released in NA, people like me who love these games and played them alot have no choice but to buy JP consoles & get the game shipped over seas for the simple pleasure of playing a game you like with extra content never released in your country. As much as I love SE's games I hate how they are with that fact.

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I wonder how easily a Japanese bro could download both Dragon Age games for ten bucks rather than paying sixty dollars or more.

Not meant as a snide response, I promise! I don't know either way and I seriously wonder about that.

When I first saw the new expansion trailer and there was no mention of PS2 at the end, I was extremely excited, wooo, the steps square should have taken 5 years ago, dropping the super limited ps2 so the game can look and function better. Then, just for the hell of it, I watch the Japanese trailer, with the PS2 support at the end of it. I was disappointed yet not even slightly surprised. Square has been screwing us since they skipped FFII for the NES in favor of FFIV. They are Japan first, second, third and the rest of the world is fourth and sometimes not supported at all. Check out all the International versions that they release in Japan and where is Before Crisis: FFVII or even the crappy FF:U cellphone game? What about all the Japanese only Moogle Rod? In Japan it dispense infinitely where the usa Nomad Moogle Rod is 50 uses ever, never refillable again. Simple things like that show that the decision makers in Square are racist. Plain and simple. If coca-cola ran a contest with that same mentality, white people get a years supply of coke if they win and black people get a week's supply if they win. Should coca-cola say, well our main target is white people so black people should just be happy with what we give them? They would declared racist by everyone and coca-cola would feel the impact of their negative contest. Well Square does the same crap and the ones from the country being screw are saying "good, who cares" instead of being pissed off for being seen as a lower form of life by a company that you support monthly. F*cking shameful and insulting.

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Originally Posted by Apie

When I first saw the new expansion trailer and there was no mention of PS2 at the end, I was extremely excited, wooo, the steps square should have taken 5 years ago, dropping the super limited ps2 so the game can look and function better. Then, just for the hell of it, I watch the Japanese trailer, with the PS2 support at the end of it. I was disappointed yet not even slightly surprised. Square has been screwing us since they skipped FFII for the NES in favor of FFIV. They are Japan first, second, third and the rest of the world is fourth and sometimes not supported at all. Check out all the International versions that they release in Japan and where is Before Crisis: FFVII or even the crappy FF:U cellphone game? What about all the Japanese only Moogle Rod? In Japan it dispense infinitely where the usa Nomad Moogle Rod is 50 uses ever, never refillable again. Simple things like that show that the decision makers in Square are racist. Plain and simple. If coca-cola ran a contest with that same mentality, white people get a years supply of coke if they win and black people get a week's supply if they win. Should coca-cola say, well our main target is white people so black people should just be happy with what we give them? They would declared racist by everyone and coca-cola would feel the impact of their negative contest. Well Square does the same crap and the ones from the country being screw are saying "good, who cares" instead of being pissed off for being seen as a lower form of life by a company that you support monthly. F*cking shameful and insulting.

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nationalism is segregation based on the country.

racism is based on race.

i never knew that eastern asian people living in the states could receive jp only items...

I would take the fact that he read your entire paragraph and had nothing to add, other than a gripe about your grammar as a sign that he agrees with everything that you said. Good job!

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

I would take the fact that he read your entire paragraph and had nothing to add, other than a gripe about your grammar as a sign that he agrees with everything that you said. Good job!

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Yes, I do agree that Japan gaming industry gives off a general nationalist vibe to the rest of the world. I just wanted to correct the improper vocabulary. This still doesn't mean that I support the PS2 anywhere. Coolcondecendingremarktomakemesoundcoolontheofficialforums. Gold star 4 u!

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Originally Posted by Zerich

Yes, I do agree that Japan gaming industry gives off a general nationalist vibe to the rest of the world. I just wanted to correct the improper vocabulary. This still doesn't mean that I support the PS2 anywhere. Coolcondecendingremarktomakemesoundcoolontheofficialforums. Gold star 4 u!

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Racism in itself is wrong. We are "The Human Race" colour/language/religion doesn't define different races.

Only way Se can stop all this bitching is release it for the Ps3 after all the ps2 is kinda obsolete now im a pc user I hate xbox 360 with a passion and have never liked xbox but each to there own but I would like to see this game on Ps3 that will also give anyone that has a ps2 or played the game on ps2 the chance to come back to the game as most ps2 users now have a Ps3 Se just should give the option or at least do a survey to help them make the right choice.

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Originally Posted by Zerich

nationalism is segregation based on the country.

racism is based on race.

i never knew that eastern asian people living in the states could receive jp only items...

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Nationalism or Racism, both are just as bad, I live in NA no reason I should be denied a game because of that, some companies I might understand, they don't have the people to translate the games and put them out, SE however...

SE does it with many things, not just a small amount, they make games that take years to long to get to other countries, make special editions with added content(Not as much of a problem now that DLC exists) and just games in general that we will never see in stores. Its sad & pathetic in general, and its honestly why I am not surprised at this move by them, its just another company doing what everyone is doing these days, screw customers, make money, EA does it, Activision does it, and our lovely SE does it too.

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nationalism is segregation based on the country.

racism is based on race.

i never knew that eastern asian people living in the states could receive jp only items...

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Nationalism and Racism intersect whenever a nationalistic population is largely homogenous. In these case's the race is seen as the nation and vice versa. This happens in many places that maintained an anti-outsider attitude until the last century or so.

Ex: In South Korea, being ethnic Korean is culturally treated the same as being a citizen of SK. Someone being of non-Korean ethnicity yet having Korean citizenship, via immigration or being children of immigrants, is treated as a lower class citizen. Japan is a slightly better only because they hide their feelings behind a smile, otherwise the same behaviors exist. I can not speak for other countries as I've not yet been there, but I can speak for SK / Japan.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

SE does it with many things, not just a small amount, they make games that take years to long to get to other countries, make special editions with added content(Not as much of a problem now that DLC exists) and just games in general that we will never see in stores. Its sad & pathetic in general, and its honestly why I am not surprised at this move by them, its just another company doing what everyone is doing these days, screw customers, make money, EA does it, Activision does it, and our lovely SE does it too.

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It's our own fault for having crappy, gimmic only gaming companies. What do we make here? Wall crawller and FPS rehashes.

After I posted it, I re-read it and I agree, racism is the wrong word, but the meaning behind it is the same. It's not even that much extra work for a USA PS2 release. All the translations are done, since there are 360 and PC releases are coming out in the USA and the programming is being done for the PS2 since Japan is getting a PS2 release. So I fail to see where all the extra work would come in for them to do a USA release. If they want to play it safe, have the USA version only sold as pre-orders from the USA Square-Enix store. They print just enough to cover the pre-order cut-off date. That way they don't alienate the small handful of PS2 USA customers. Bam, extra profit with ZERO risk and happier customers. They aren't dumb, I'm very sure this idea of mine has crossed their minds, which makes this whole situation that much more offensive. The only thing I can think of is that Sony told them that they can't release it in the USA - since it's not going to have many sales...

Demon6324236 said:

>>>make special editions with added content(Not as much of a problem now that DLC exists)

I would almost agree, but for FFXIII, Square released a DLC patch to add Easy Type to the Japanese version so people can do speed runs, we never got that. So even in the era of DLC, Square is still giving Japan more than everywhere else. Not just FFXIII, also Dissidia 012, some of the DLC is also Japan only.

>>>EA does it, Activision does it, and our lovely SE does it too.

And don't forget Capcom, they are the kings of screwing customers, but that's a different topic. ;)

You seem to think its as easy as just producing the disks and shipping them to people. They need to license it with Sony and get permission. It's a lot more expensive than it is going to make them money in sales. Chances are they won't even make the expenses back with subs in 12 months across all US PS2 players, if the numbers are as small as anticipated.

I'm pretty sure this is purely an economical reason. No racism or discrimination intended.

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Originally Posted by Dazusu

I'm pretty sure this is purely an economical reason. No racism or discrimination intended.

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True that.
Why would people even consider racism/discrimination? It boggles the mind.

Look, SE runs a business, not a bloody charity.

Personally, I'd just nix the ps2 support altogether. However, at the end of the day it's SE's dime and if they think they can make money off of the JP market with the ps2 then they'll go for it. However, to attempt to produce the expansion for the rest of the world for a system nothing is being produced for is kind of silly. Not to mention that the large ps2's don't even read the disks anymore - for the most part.

Plus, it's not even just production and license costs that they have to take into account. It's the localization costs to boot. Those are just the first things that pop into my mind. I'm sure there are more things to work around.

Alienating a portion of their customers doesn't sound like a smart economical decision. Also, I checked online, the PlayStation3 licensing fee is $10 per game sold and the expansion will most likely be $19 to $29, plus since this is a PS2 title, I would imagine the licensing fee is even less than $10. Usually that would make the profit margin really low, but all the costs involved with programming and translating are already going to be done with the other releases. They have no additional licensing fees since they own the property and they are a publisher, so no outside costs with publishing. The manual will already be made for the PC and 360 version, so costs are very minimal there to make slight adjustments to the manual to make it for the PS2, or they could just translate the Japanese PS2 manual. So no, I don't see how it will be more expensive than it costs to release it here. If anything, it will be very slightly profitable, even with minimum sales. Plus Sony might have a special rate for expansions, since they aren't full games, they rely on another game to function, in which Sony has already made their profit on the original release.

Another option is making the Japanese PS2 expansion region-free, Play-Asia and eBay can easily handle that demand. This is just a suggestion off the top of my head, I'm sure there are plenty of other solutions.

Anapingofness Said:

>>>Why would people even consider racism/discrimination? It boggles the mind.

That part was already explained a few posts back, in detail, by a few different people. You really should read the full argument if you're going to criticize the comments of others.

>>>Look, SE runs a business, not a bloody charity.

When did PS2 owners ask for it for free? They want EQUAL treatment that others are getting, not special treatment.

>>>for a system nothing is being produced for is kind of silly. Not to mention that the large ps2's don't even read the disks anymore - for the most part.

Whether or not they are still making games for the PS2 is irrelevant cause people still play this game on the PS2 and it's these people who will buy it, no one else will, so the ones that want it already have working PS2s or at least a first generation PS3, so there are working systems to play the PS2 game on. I have 3 fully working PS2s (one old style, one new style and the Japanese FFXII collector's system.)

These people who are being denied access to the new expansion, just because they live in the "wrong" country or use the "wrong" system, are people who you may have had parties with or who may have walked by you and cured you when you were hurt. Why should they be excluded when others in the same situation as them aren't being excluded. You would feel a lot more butthurt if it was your system that was being denied access to what everyone else is getting.

For the record, I play on the PC, but I have it on the 360 and first generation PS3. So it doesn't really affect me, but wrong is wrong and this is wrong.

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Originally Posted by Apie

Alienating a portion of their customers doesn't sound like a smart economical decision.

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How can you qualify such a statement without determining the size of the portion? Sure, a large amount of people played on PS2, then it may not be, but if it's just a handful of people, alienating them at the benefit of preserving a sufficient sum of money can very well be worth it.

How is it wrong? The NA distribution / Manufacturing Companies don't even print PS2 discs anymore. You can't produce Region Free Discs for the PS2 Format. (In case you thought you could import the JP release) Even if you could find a manufacturer to do a print run for you, You have to print a minimum number of discs, usually a minimum of at least 3000. (I can honestly say there are less than 3k people in the NA region who play Exclusively on PS2 format) Then you have to schedule the run itself, Pay for distribution, etc.

Summing it up, it's not cost effective to continue to support NA PS2 players.

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Originally Posted by Apie

Demon6324236 said:

>>>make special editions with added content(Not as much of a problem now that DLC exists)

I would almost agree, but for FFXIII, Square released a DLC patch to add Easy Type to the Japanese version so people can do speed runs, we never got that. So even in the era of DLC, Square is still giving Japan more than everywhere else. Not just FFXIII, also Dissidia 012, some of the DLC is also Japan only.

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This I did not know, but thats even worse. My main reason for saying that is that now they have almost no excuse for not giving other countries extra content like in international versions & final mixs. Which has always been a problem to me so long as they do it because I know alot of people who love the games and would love to throw their money at SE for their extra content. I would hope due to the DLC availability we now have SE would stop this stupidity.

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>>>EA does it, Activision does it, and our lovely SE does it too.

And don't forget Capcom, they are the kings of screwing customers, but that's a different topic. ;)

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Yep, alot of companies are doing it more and more and its sad. Honestly I think in the end it might drive people away from gaming because of everything gamers get thrown at them at the same time as the cost it is on the players themselves to buy new consoles or upgrade PCs for newer games.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

It's our own fault for having crappy, gimmic only gaming companies. What do we make here? Wall crawller and FPS rehashes.

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America is imo the FPS country of gaming, seems most of them or most popular ones come from here. Halo, Battlefield, CoD, and the like are all here. Japan is the RPG country, no country makes RPGs like Japan does, SE being one of the biggest names in the genre. So far as I know America games have had no problems going to other countries unless laws did not allow for it, however I doubt SE has been having this problem. For instance, I'm sure my Kingdom Hearts II:Final Mix+ had nothing the US government wouldn't allow. It just seems unfair to me in the end.

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Originally Posted by Apie

Alienating a portion of their customers doesn't sound like a smart economical decision. Also, I checked online, the PlayStation3 licensing fee is $10 per game sold and the expansion will most likely be $19 to $29, plus since this is a PS2 title, I would imagine the licensing fee is even less than $10. Usually that would make the profit margin really low, but all the costs involved with programming and translating are already going to be done with the other releases. They have no additional licensing fees since they own the property and they are a publisher, so no outside costs with publishing. The manual will already be made for the PC and 360 version, so costs are very minimal there to make slight adjustments to the manual to make it for the PS2, or they could just translate the Japanese PS2 manual. So no, I don't see how it will be more expensive than it costs to release it here. If anything, it will be very slightly profitable, even with minimum sales. Plus Sony might have a special rate for expansions, since they aren't full games, they rely on another game to function, in which Sony has already made their profit on the original release.

Another option is making the Japanese PS2 expansion region-free, Play-Asia and eBay can easily handle that demand. This is just a suggestion off the top of my head, I'm sure there are plenty of other solutions.

Anapingofness Said:

>>>Why would people even consider racism/discrimination? It boggles the mind.

That part was already explained a few posts back, in detail, by a few different people. You really should read the full argument if you're going to criticize the comments of others.

>>>Look, SE runs a business, not a bloody charity.

When did PS2 owners ask for it for free? They want EQUAL treatment that others are getting, not special treatment.

>>>for a system nothing is being produced for is kind of silly. Not to mention that the large ps2's don't even read the disks anymore - for the most part.

Whether or not they are still making games for the PS2 is irrelevant cause people still play this game on the PS2 and it's these people who will buy it, no one else will, so the ones that want it already have working PS2s or at least a first generation PS3, so there are working systems to play the PS2 game on. I have 3 fully working PS2s (one old style, one new style and the Japanese FFXII collector's system.)

These people who are being denied access to the new expansion, just because they live in the "wrong" country or use the "wrong" system, are people who you may have had parties with or who may have walked by you and cured you when you were hurt. Why should they be excluded when others in the same situation as them aren't being excluded. You would feel a lot more butthurt if it was your system that was being denied access to what everyone else is getting.

For the record, I play on the PC, but I have it on the 360 and first generation PS3. So it doesn't really affect me, but wrong is wrong and this is wrong.

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It appears that we have a misunderstanding, I apologize.

I will try to clear it up.

I do not support the segregated support of the ps2. As in, NA gets none while JP gets ps2 support. I think there hasn't been ps2 support for a while especially in light of the many issues ps2 players run into. Issues such as black screens, being locked while talking to an NPC or while in a cut scene- just to name a few. If we had actual support those issues would have been taken care of.

It's not that I don't sympathize with the NA ps2 players. I do. The ps2 exclusion hits pretty close to home- quite literally. My younger sister still uses a ps2 to play FFXI and she's one of the people that would end up getting excluded. She's also one of the people I routinely play FFXI with.

Computers are readily accessible today and even the cheapest PC that came out within the last five years can run FFXI. If someone is still playing on the ps2 then they should upgrade to PC. Not to mention that most people have a PC or a next gen gaming console. This should not be that big of an issue.

I want this game to keep growing. Keeping the ps2 around will do more bad than good.

In short, I support dropping ps2 support across the board.

In closing...

I don't see why they can't just update it the way they did with Abyssea. I do not mean in three mini expansions, what I mean is where everyone updates the game and has the files on their hard drive. Then, people would just buy the expansion code. That would make everyone happy and no disks are involved.

Alternatively, SE could add a FFXI collection to the PSN and let people play it on their ps3's without it being a first gen system.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Oddly, not everyone knows someone/is friends with/lives next to someone who plays FFXI, much less plays it on PC. Unless you're willing to send me your copy in the mail I'm still going to be forced to get the PC version along with the expansion just to play in the new area. It's best not to assume that everyone personally knows someone else who plays, it's just not the case nor has it ever really been so.

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So you don't chat with anyone you play the game with, or read BlueGartr? Ever thought of using your internet connection to solve the problem instead of the postal service...? And why send you my copy? Why not a copy of my copy for you to keep? No copy protection on the discs, remember? You are already a paying subscriber, and the game doesn't require original discs.

Why should I support piracy? And how would knowing people online equate to my being able to borrow a legal copy of the game? I'd have to know them in real life, thus knowing where they live and how to get in touch with them outside of the internet to arrange the exchange. I think it's best to drop this 'copy of a copy' talk now before this thread gets locked.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Why should I support piracy? And how would knowing people online equate to my being able to borrow a legal copy of the game? I'd have to know them in real life, thus knowing where they live and how to get in touch with them outside of the internet to arrange the exchange. I think it's best to drop this 'copy of a copy' talk now before this thread gets locked.

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It's NOT piracy.

Piracy is when you illegally obtain a copy of something you did not pay for, you already own a copy of the game and are using a means to install said purchase. They are completely different.

Technically SE themselves should provide a means to download the game for free as it's a paid for MMO.

Every multiplatform player I know, in-game or out, has bought the console version, and otherwise obtained the PC version. Local friends are saved the update process by me keeping my install backed up on an external drive, and just copy/pasting it over their base install (which can be done from the free trial version), since expansions don't have to be put into the Windows registry, their ROM folders just need to be present.

There is no moral objection from anyone I've offered this to. They bought the game, paid for the registration codes, and pay for their account. Buying a second copy for a second platform would give them an extra registration code they'd never use. It's like Windows, you pay for the registration code, not the install media. I can make as many copies of the ISO files Microsoft puts up on their site as I want, but they are useless without a registration code for each install. I pay for the registration codes when I buy from MS or DreamSpark, but I don't need a registration code to do the download.

No, I don't think you understand what piracy is. Making a copy of something, like a movie or a game or OS, then giving that copy away is piracy, therefor illegal. Money doesn't have to change hands for it to be piracy, though it does change how much money in reparations the suing party can get if it ever goes to court. Nor does prior ownership of either individual involved as then it comes down to proving that you own the copied material, and in the case of games with codes and OSes only one person will be able to make that claim. I'll not be a party to such behavior.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

No, I don't think you understand what piracy is. Making a copy of something, like a movie or a game or OS, then giving that copy away is piracy, therefor illegal. Money doesn't have to change hands for it to be piracy, though it does change how much money in reparations the suing party can get if it ever goes to court. Nor does prior ownership of either individual involved as then it comes down to proving that you own the copied material, and in the case of games with codes and OSes only one person will be able to make that claim. I'll not be a party to such behavior.

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sorry to say, but it's you who doesn't understand piracy and videogames. if you have purchased a copy of the game, it is legal to run any version of the game as if you were playing it for that one purchase. it becomes pirating when you've purchased 1 copy of the game and are running the same "copy" on two or more different clients at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

No, I don't think you understand what piracy is. Making a copy of something, like a movie or a game or OS, then giving that copy away is piracy, therefor illegal. Money doesn't have to change hands for it to be piracy, though it does change how much money in reparations the suing party can get if it ever goes to court. Nor does prior ownership of either individual involved as then it comes down to proving that you own the copied material, and in the case of games with codes and OSes only one person will be able to make that claim. I'll not be a party to such behavior.

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They are not saying to copy the disk. Let me explain from something in my experience. When I got Fallout 3:Game of the Year Edition I had a disk with it for all add-ons. Now I used this disk for myself, my younger cousin & my best friend who lived right down the street both had this game, and played it alot, however they had no DLC. I let them borrow the disk, no copying, no piracy, simply handed them the disk from my case as I no longer needed it. After this, they both downloaded the DLC, and happily had it, then returned the disk to me. This is what they speak of, nothing illegal unless its illegal to let my family & friends borrow games, if thats a case I am a horrible human being.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

No, I don't think you understand what piracy is. Making a copy of something, like a movie or a game or OS, then giving that copy away is piracy, therefor illegal.

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That "definition" would make xerox machines as illegal as heroin. Thankfully it's nonsense.

The game itself is not what you pay for, which would be ironic anyway, as it is entirely useless on its own. You pay for the codes to unlock content IDs, which are bundled with each purchase. Exchanging game copies is not illegal in any way, therefore not piracy.