Treasure Hunter Effect Amongst Jobs

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Originally Posted by Teraniku

or you know allow BSTs to be able to Charm mobs in abbysea etc. ...... oh wait that made too much sense.

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The whole problem reaches farther than abyssea. It started the day they raised the cap, the job has not been able to use ANY of the new content to their advantage. You can say thats wrong cause they needed to nerf pdt from 100% but that was nothing more than a toy. I could solo Hedjedjet but no proc and sometimes i got nothing. Nothing. Abyssea I was useless in, VW I AM useless in. Only old content will I really shine, is that so horribly bad? Take away TH and you don't decrease people in dynamis, you make me change my setup for salvage from 2 bsts and a who cares to 1 bst and 1 thf and a who cares. Einherjar i go as bst just cause i dont wanna change and it's easy content. Limbus I solo for coins and for omega and ultima pops, TH might affect how many 6k coins i make in a run from 40-60 to 20-30? i'm not there for coins anyways, i do it to kill time.

I don't think either the cause or effect of this change are going to be as Dynamis-centric as this discussion is.

I see it more like this:

The local office supply store was out of liquid paper and toner last Thursday, thus a fog lifted and the Development Bros realized that higher tiers of Treasure Hunter do almost nothing. They were faced with three choices. Make higher tiers of Treasure Hunter suck less, mess with the lower tiers or number of tiers somehow to make something suck more, or do nothing.

It was getting dangerously close to the weekend, with only two or three days left in the week, so doing nothing was tempting. However, one bright fellow pointed out that removing a few tiers of Treasure Hunter from Beastmaster pets would be almost as easy as doing nothing and it would make something suck more. Many ties were worn as bandanas during that afternoon's glorious yet sadly sober celebration.

The effect on Dynamis will be almost nothing.

I seriously doubt a change akin to going from a range of 1.3-1.6 million in currency to a range of 1.1-1.4 million in currency is going to drive anyone away. I seriously doubt a few Beastmasters changing to Dancer will change anything, either, unless they're so poorly equipped that they just flail around and die and so incompetent that they continue flailing and dying day after day.

I am so happy thank you SE first nerf that was needed back to the Boyahda tree/ ru aun gardens with you bandwagon BSTs please :D

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Originally Posted by Cahlum

I am so happy thank you SE first nerf that was needed back to the Boyahda tree/ ru aun gardens with you bandwagon BSTs please :D

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Remember how happy you are about this nerf, when they adjust SMN to make DG work the same as every other job.

... I'm just sayin.

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Originally Posted by Jile

Remember how happy you are about this nerf, when they adjust SMN to make DG work the same as every other job.

... I'm just sayin.

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SMN is rubbish as it is, why would this bother it?

I love SMN almost as much as BST but regardless I was trying to make a valid point to a main SMN that he might relate to since it didn't seem he related to the perspective of BST's.

This entire freaking "TH problem" can be fixed by SE making TH stacking actually "work" rather than remain broken, like it is.. TH3 from a naked THF shouldn't have the same drop rate generally speaking as when something dies with (exaggerating) TH100... and presently, I believe it does for the most part...

Ppl on this thread complaining about hoarding of mobs... I have a harder time with the small groups that come in and agro all mobs and sleepga them, trying to keep them all for themselves than I ever have had from a few BST in a zone... So what's next?

The way Dynamis is now needs looked at - whether its a solo BST or some small group taking all the mobs, I personally believe the old zone limits on how many people can enter is too high to be "friendly" in the 99 world. Either Dynamis needs to have a 12 person cap on all zones - perhaps once 12 ppl enter a zone, any additional ppl would enter a different instance of that zone so things could be nicer for everyone all around? Another thought would be that if someone has red claim on a mob, any yellow mob they pull more than 10 yalms from its pop location would de-agro and go back to its pop location regardless of status like sleep/etc..

I hate to say it but.... perhaps setting 'all' mobs 'all' the time to be proc'able by everything, JA/WS/MA but make it a specific one each claim and you still have to guess which JA/WS/MA but wouldn't have to cycle mobs and camps 3 times a game day so each group could set a camp in their SeaCom and we might get more concept of 'respect of camp' that people associate with old xi tradition in xp locations (tho that didn't always happen that's the core of the complaint, lack of respect for others).

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Originally Posted by Jile

I love SMN almost as much as BST but regardless I was trying to make a valid point to a main SMN that he might relate to since it didn't seem he related to the perspective of BST's.

This entire freaking "TH problem" can be fixed by SE making TH stacking actually "work" rather than remain broken, like it is.. TH3 from a naked THF shouldn't have the same drop rate generally speaking as when something dies with (exaggerating) TH100... and presently, I believe it does for the most part...

Ppl on this thread complaining about hoarding of mobs... I have a harder time with the small groups that come in and agro all mobs and sleepga them, trying to keep them all for themselves than I ever have had from a few BST in a zone... So what's next?

The way Dynamis is now needs looked at - whether its a solo BST or some small group taking all the mobs, I personally believe the old zone limits on how many people can enter is too high to be "friendly" in the 99 world. Either Dynamis needs to have a 12 person cap on all zones - perhaps once 12 ppl enter a zone, any additional ppl would enter a different instance of that zone so things could be nicer for everyone all around? Another thought would be that if someone has red claim on a mob, any yellow mob they pull more than 10 yalms from its pop location would de-agro and go back to its pop location regardless of status like sleep/etc..

I hate to say it but.... perhaps setting 'all' mobs 'all' the time to be proc'able by everything, JA/WS/MA but make it a specific one each claim and you still have to guess which JA/WS/MA but wouldn't have to cycle mobs and camps 3 times a game day so each group could set a camp in their SeaCom and we might get more concept of 'respect of camp' that people associate with old xi tradition in xp locations (tho that didn't always happen that's the core of the complaint, lack of respect for others).

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Or they could get rid of the whole proc system that created this problem before dynamis becomes dnc onry.

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Originally Posted by Jile

I hate to say it but.... perhaps setting 'all' mobs 'all' the time to be proc'able by everything, JA/WS/MA but make it a specific one each claim and you still have to guess which JA/WS/MA but wouldn't have to cycle mobs and camps 3 times a game day so each group could set a camp in their SeaCom and we might get more concept of 'respect of camp' that people associate with old xi tradition in xp locations (tho that didn't always happen that's the core of the complaint, lack of respect for others).

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The taurus in tav are like this, but i've tried farming em, you might get 75 coins a run if u stuck to just them. I like the idea but not SE's version of it, what about repop timers?

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Originally Posted by deces

Do you carry 40+ items for the benefit of 1 job only?

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nin- ws, tp, pdt and eva puts me@ about 75/80 with rr toolbags food etc in satchel
pld- tp, shield, pdt, enm, max hp, mdt, 2 ws sets, cure cheat etc = 80/80
any job that only carries 40 items you are gimping

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Originally Posted by Disifer

The taurus in tav are like this, but i've tried farming em, you might get 75 coins a run if u stuck to just them. I like the idea but not SE's version of it, what about repop timers?

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Honestly, if they could adjust the proc's for all mobs to be the JA/WS/MA proc full time, the repops might even be less of an issue unless the zone was swarming with people.

but the ones in tav per say, sometimes u can sit there for 5 mins, its not JA its WS or Magic, next one can be another 5 min. at that point you are better off running to a city dynamis. believe it or not you'd net more from the 2-3 JA mobs that are grouped among 5-6 non ja mobs

Bst gets bashed because its an anti social job and not very group friendly. It does not have the highest treasure hunter available by far. 9 other jobs have access to the same level of Treasure hunter. 2 have access to higher

Here is the correct order of current max TH available

1st THF
2nd RNG
3rd MNK WHM BLM RDM PLD BRD SMN BLU PUP SCH (with thf subs) BST with right pet*
4th All other jobs /thf
5th all other jobs

* MNK WHM BLM RDM PLD BRD SMN BLU PUP SCH have access to tarataru sash with Treasure hunter augmentation (RNG does as well but already added above). All these jobs have access to Treasure hunter 3 with /thf same as bst with pet

The problem with dynamis and BST nerf is not the problem of BST having TH its the poorly designed proc system where everyone hunts down job ability spam mobs. If you ask me maybe they should increase proc rate for magic and weapon skill mobs to discourage everyone going /dnc . Most ep mobs you will only get 1 ws attempt before you kill so make this a 50% proc rate. Also magic should be increased slightly - maybe to 10% as spamming is easiest on this. If they did this it would allow more mobs to be farmed at same time and reduce dyna congestion.

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Originally Posted by lodie

nin- ws, tp, pdt and eva puts me@ about 75/80 with rr toolbags food etc in satchel
pld- tp, shield, pdt, enm, max hp, mdt, 2 ws sets, cure cheat etc = 80/80
any job that only carries 40 items you are gimping

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And I'm sure well over half of your gear is multi job use. Oh wow... so you have 3 relics, you really are a tool. do you take meds for your OCD?

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Originally Posted by Ica

I know right? BSTs have been dominating dynamis and other popular content with their TH pets for years.

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Oh noes BSTs are dominating crap that nobody seriously gave two shits about before. Considering it's a job that doesn't get invites to anything at all I find this nerf pretty fucking funny. Truthfully tho the nerf won't even be noticable in my eyes.

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Originally Posted by Rohelius

Their reason for nerfing this doesn't convince me though. THF gets something like TH+6 with items and gear combined right?

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No.
http://images.wikia.com/ffxi/images/...rmlets%2B2.png +
http://images.wikia.com/ffxi/images/...aines_%2B2.png +
http://images.wikia.com/ffxi/images/...iefs_Knife.png +
job trait = TH8

I have Relic THF as main with DNC so for me wouldn't change much, however I find pretty ridicolous this nerf. Because BST is fun to play in Dynamis and OUTSIDE, because will kill price in dippery/Falcor jugs to cooking craft ppl like me, because doesn't have much sense to me. All the rest here that say THF should be only the TH main is irrilevant, they are just a bunch of crybaby THF main that can't see any other jobs but THF. Now, if you say that THF TH is shit, then yes, it is. Even now I think TH is a pathetic way from SE for encourage ppl exping THF, although I keep say TH is a lie. So many mobs killed with TH raise to 10 and the result was less then when th4->7 (Hello salvage? and so on...). Anyway, they should make more efficient the TH for THF and leave jugs pet with the actual TH, fuck the equipment. The thing I doesn't understand, isn't WHY BST have TH but WHY RNG have TH as well and WHY it should be more then /th and jugs. And SE speaking of balance when is 2012? There's already ton of coins around, there's already 90 milions of noobs around with relic, what you balance now? It should have be done before not now, don't make me laught. But correct me if I mistake.

You'd be a gimp to put on a Thief's Knife in dynamis.

So TH7 is more realistic unless your THF is donning his dunce cap, and doesn't understand how the increase of Killspeed from using a Flame-Thock Trumps the negligible difference between TH8 and TH7.

As far as my View on the nerf, to reiterate, Nerfs suck, For every job, and are never called for. Its the Dev equivalent to "Easy way out" button. Instead of buffing one job, they nerf another. Its disgusting and lazy. They could have just made TH more useful past 3.

Shit, they could have given THF a JA (3min dur, 3min rec), Which Reduces an Enemies Defense, Evasion, and Critical hit Evasion (x2) Based on the Current TH Level.

Meaning at TH7, it'd give -14% Def, eva, an crit-eva to Enemy. A worthy Buff to THF, no nerf needed to BST, as in any endgame event, When evaluating TH, this Ability would come into consideration.

BST's keep their Dynamis, THF's Keep some/Gain some usefulness endgame.

So what they need to do, instead of nerfing jobs of their Placebo effect, is to give THF Main some BONUS to their High levels of TH (which past 3, are otherwise pretty moot). Give us a BONUS for upgrading TH beyond the unnoticeable increase in drop rates. something to encourage us to upgrade TH in places like Voidwatch, or BCNMs.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

You'd be a gimp to put on a Thief's Knife in dynamis.

So TH7 is more realistic unless your THF is donning his dunce cap, and doesn't understand how the increase of Killspeed from using a Flame-Thock Trumps the negligible difference between TH8 and TH7

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I wouldn't say so, unless you are solo. I have soloed dyna one time with THF with mandau/twashtar and mandau/thief's knife, and never had problems on kill speed. Let's say not all have relic dagger (I think) tho.

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Originally Posted by Darkpearl

I wouldn't say so, unless you are solo. I have soloed dyna one time with THF with mandau/twashtar and mandau/thief's knife, and never had problems on kill speed. Let's say not all have relic dagger (I think) tho.

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Not at all my friend! In Fact, Having a Relic and Thwast just makes it worse If you use a Thief's Knife.

I myself own a Mandau, And i can see a clear difference in killspeed from lolTHFknife, and using a Flame-Thok off-hand. But I've yet to parse a noticeable increase in drop rate. 100% of the time, Using Flame-Thok, I come out with more currency because i end up killing ~10 more mobs in the long run (The difference in damage between a THF's knife and Flame Thoc is near 20~30 or more a hit. That adds up quickly when you're fighting 70~+ mobs a run Du THF/WHM)

Its that the difference between TH8, and TH7, Is so negligible, Its insignificant. If you literally gained 100 Damage per mob in Kill-speed Gain from using a better mainhand, Its far more beneficial than Thief's Knife. Its just a worthless weapon in High-Density mob situations. Great for "one hit wonders" (Behemoth, etc), but not for fast-paced events like Dynamis.

The DPS hit is entirely too much to sacrifice for the negligible increase in TH. You'll be fine rocking TH6.

Also, Its TH7 with all of that, TH3+4 (2 hands, 1 feet, 1 Knife).

They just announced that each merit in feint will increase chance of treasure hunter upgrade by 25%. So thief probably starts at 8 after all.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

The DPS hit is entirely too much to sacrifice for the negligible increase in TH. You'll be fine rocking TH6.

Also, Its TH7 with all of that, TH3+4 (2 hands, 1 feet, 1 Knife).

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Yes, DPS is less obvious... however start be insignificant when you are in 4 ppl, can sacrifice 100 dmg for a hope of better drop. Even if I think same as you that doesn't change a thing. And yes mistake count is 7.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

They just announced that each merit in feint will increase chance of treasure hunter upgrade by 25%. So thief probably starts at 8 after all.

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mhh didn't read that but was counting trait + equip, said th8 but was th7 total. Mistake count.

The difference between TH6 and 7 is so small that even the tiniest bit of kill speed easily overpowers that trashbag knife. It hurts my heart that you spent all that time on those daggers and intentionally gimp yourself ;_;

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Originally Posted by Darkpearl

Yes, DPS is less obvious... however start be insignificant when you are in 4 ppl, can sacrifice 100 dmg for a hope of better drop. Even if I think same as you that doesn't change a thing. And yes mistake count is 7.

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Well, I more firmly believe you're sacrificing your potential for little to no gain at all, But i can see you're set in your belief. and there are some extenuating circumstances where Thief's knife in Dynamis would be acceptable.

So i will not bug you any further on it :)!

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Well, I more firmly believe you're sacrificing your potential for little to no gain at all, But i can see you're set in your belief. and there are some extenuating circumstances where Thief's knife in Dynamis would be acceptable.

So i will not bug you any further on it :)!

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Actually I rarely use TH dagger :x. I'm not a BST main or BST only player, I play with every jobs, however I must admit that jobs like BST doesn't shine in any other place and BST is fun like play PUP, so downgrade TH from it NOW that is 2012 make only PPL be more pissed. As I said, it should have been done before. Not now. I hope SE will backtrack from this decision, but if not, well... Im gonna use again THF then.

[sarcasm]EDIT: This is for SE from me. You need it!
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...alancering.jpg
[/sarcasm]

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Originally Posted by Darkpearl

Actually I rarely use TH dagger :x. I'm not a BST main or BST only player, I play with every jobs, however I must admit that jobs like BST doesn't shine in any other place and BST is fun like play PUP, so downgrade TH from it NOW that is 2012 make only PPL be more pissed. As I said, it should have been done before. Not now. I hope SE will backtrack from this decision, but if not, well... Im gonna use again THF then.

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Maybe Instead of Nerfing BST, they should give THF's an upgrade to TH Beyond Drop rates.

As i suggested on the previous Page, How about a JA That inflicts the enemy with Negative effects based on the current TH level. Maybe something like..

Level 15 - Lustful Gaze (implying the absolute want of something, like treasure...)

TH1~3 - Reduces Enemies Defense, and Magic Defense by 5%
TH4~6 Reduces Enemies Defense, and Magic Defense by 10%
TH7~9 Reduces Enemies Defense, and Magic Defense by 15%
TH10~12+ Reduces Enemies Defense, and Magic Defense by 20%

So the higher TH, The more benefit it has. Have it be a Enemy-Target like Bully, Duration 3minutes, Recast 5 minutes. (Or 1min Dur 2min recast)

Something like that. It gives THFs an advantage to their high level of Treasure Hunter that benefits the whole party.

Alternatively, It could just be a buff to the THF, Higher TH = More Damage from SA or TA... like

JT - Level 15 "??" - Increases the Damage of Trick Attack and Sneak Attack based on Current Level of TH. (Formula, TH level x2 = % increase).

It gives Thieves bonus and reasons to upgrade TH above and beyond drop rates. It will fix that "BALANCE" Issue, as well as allow BST to keep their TH.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Maybe Instead of Nerfing BST, they should give THF's an upgrade to TH Beyond Drop rates.

As i suggested on the previous Page, How about a JA That inflicts the enemy with Negative effects based on the current TH level. Maybe something like..

Level 15 - Lustful Gaze (implying the absolute want of something, like treasure...)

TH1~3 - Reduces Enemies Defense, and Magic Defense by 5%
TH4~6 Reduces Enemies Defense, and Magic Defense by 10%
TH7~9 Reduces Enemies Defense, and Magic Defense by 15%
TH10~12+ Reduces Enemies Defense, and Magic Defense by 20%

So the higher TH, The more benefit it has. Have it be a Enemy-Target like Bully, Duration 3minutes, Recast 5 minutes. (Or 1min Dur 2min recast)

Something like that. It gives THFs an advantage to their high level of Treasure Hunter that benefits the whole party.

Alternatively, It could just be a buff to the THF, Higher TH = More Damage from SA or TA... like

JT - Level 15 "??" - Increases the Damage of Trick Attack and Sneak Attack based on Current Level of TH. (Formula, TH level x2 = % increase).

It gives Thieves bonus and reasons to upgrade TH above and beyond drop rates. It will fix that "BALANCE" Issue, as well as allow BST to keep their TH.

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They couldn't do that, that would require thinking and work to implement.

Jesus you people. The nerf isn't that bad. If anything it doesn't mean squat and anyone who even thinks this will stop BSTs from soloing in Dynamis has their heads up their asses.

I solo on BST all the time and yeah I hate the McGimpy Pink/Pearl BSTs as much as anyone else but it won't stop them from still farming. The Pets will still have a native TH1 so seriously it's not going to effect it much or stop BSTs from farming the zones.

They came for the Warriors but I wasn't a Warrior so I didn't care. Then they came for the Monks, but I wasn't a Monk so I didn't care. Then they came for the Beastmasters, but I'm not a Beastmaster so I didn't care. Then they came for me but there was no one left to care...

Has there been a single positive thing added this year? I guess the DRG buffs and the lolcircle buffs. Starting to feel more like year of the nerf than year of the dragon. I don't play bst so this doesn't affect me but I still think nerfing everything is meh.

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Originally Posted by Kysaiana

They came for the Warriors but I wasn't a Warrior so I didn't care. Then they came for the Monks, but I wasn't a Monk so I didn't care. Then they came for the Beastmasters, but I'm not a Beastmaster so I didn't care. Then they came for me but there was no one left to care...

Has there been a single positive thing added this year? I guess the DRG buffs and the lolcircle buffs. Starting to feel more like year of the nerf than year of the dragon. I don't play bst so this doesn't affect me but I still think nerfing everything is meh.

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I really am thinking now they are deliberately trying to kill this game off.....

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Originally Posted by HimuraKenshyn

I really am thinking now they are deliberately trying to kill this game off.....

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Well.. FFXIV need more PPL so is obvious they try to force ppl rage/quit XDDDDDD

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Originally Posted by Darkpearl

Well.. FFXIV need more PPL so is obvious they try to force ppl rage/quit XDDDDDD

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I don't think it will have the desired effect they are counting on. FFXIV is just plain horrible.

BWAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA Keep it up SE you provide many laughs.

I'm still reading through all the replies (im on page 6...) but i must say all you thieves so far have failed to reconize you can BUILD UP your TH more so then BST and their pets currently with armor and the fact that landing critical hits on a mob has a chance to raise your TH further. Big woop if BST gets TH through a pet BST its how the BST pets work. They get the job traits of the job they are supposed to play.

I'm still thinking as optimistically as I can about the "Pet: Treasure Hunter armor but... :(

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Originally Posted by Vandheer

I'm still reading through all the replies (im on page 6...) but i must say all you thieves so far have failed to reconize you can BUILD UP your TH more so then BST and their pets currently with armor and the fact that landing critical hits on a mob has a chance to raise your TH further. Big woop if BST gets TH through a pet BST its how the BST pets work. They get the job traits of the job they are supposed to play.

I'm still thinking as optimistically as I can about the "Pet: Treasure Hunter armor but... :(

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You have failed to recognize that killing monsters as fast as possible will yield far more drops than trying to proc higher levels of treasure hunter. Kill Speed == King.

Then like many before me said why do we have to lower BST TH when they can attempt to fix THF TH? Fixing THF TH might even be a start to a solution to the crappy drop rates in newer events as-well as please majority.

My mistake, they are making an attempt at that route as-well. x)

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[dev1080] Job Adjustments: Thief
Assassin’s Charge
Recast time will be reduced from fifteen minutes to five.
Additional merit points will no longer reduce recast time, but instead increase accuracy by 25% per point.
Feint
Recast time will be reduced from ten minutes to two.
Additional merit points will no longer reduce recast time, but instead raise the chance of Treasure Hunter leveling up by 25% per point.

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Originally Posted by JiltedValkyrie

Nothing more annoying than 15 BST in zone hoarding the mobs with little effort. I say good.

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I just love how you guys act like whatever Dynamis zone you're in belongs to you, and no one else should be there to get in your way. The sense of entitlement is staggering. I honestly think that's the real issue here. If it wasn't BSTs it'd be another job, other players, parties, or alliances. You guys just want the zone to yourself and anything SE does to hurt others' chances while preserving your own will be A-OK with you. Well, sorry, but Dynamis doesn't work that way anymore. You can team up, compete, or wait for SE to discover the miracle of instancing. Welcome to Neo-Dynamis! Welcome to FFXI! Enjoy your stay!

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Originally Posted by Calamity

See, the funny part is that people think this will limit the number of bsts. It won't. Just means people like me, who are actually building relics will just be there in your way longer.

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well actually only a little bit longer.

And it will likely limit the number of BSTs in Dyna since many of the BST's in there were bandwagon currency farmers only doing it to make money not make relics. They often weren't pulling in many more coins than a well geared THF or DNC so they may decide to do something else for gil if coin drops are nerfed for them.

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Originally Posted by Mirabelle

well actually only a little bit longer.

And it will likely limit the number of BSTs in Dyna since many of the BST's in there were bandwagon currency farmers only doing it to make money not make relics. They often weren't pulling in many more coins than a well geared THF or DNC so they may decide to do something else for gil if coin drops are nerfed for them.

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I highly doubt that. I will still go bst over thf/dnc and I will still be able to hold 10+ mobs at a time. Nothing will change.

Without becoming a raging nerd I have 2 points to make.

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※The current focus of this adjustment is for familiar pets, but in the future if automatons and avatars are given Treasure Hunter, we will be adopting the same policy.

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If your going to limit other pets to TH1 why is the development team even considering wasting effort on this. Just don't bother adjusting, simply making adjustments for the sake of it is an exercise in futility.

My second point. Was BST having a TH3 pet really a problem for the game? The only example I've seen was is Dynamis, and this nerf is resolved simply by going BST BST THF Rather than BST BST BST. Since you can lvl thf to 99 in 1 day thanks to Abyssea if your addressing over crowding in Dynamis with this store brand band aid patch its simply not gonna hold.