[DEV1064] Tachi: Shoha

I honestly don't get all the SAM hate. Yes, we got a good ws that's comparable to Fudo and does better on high defense mobs (my 90 Masa still cries at night) But Shoha is still nowhere Ukko's Fury and Victory Smite on Tier 3 Zilart/Jeuno VWNMs even after the nerf. Instead of asking for a nerf to Shoha, we should ask for buffs on everything else as people have suggested throughout this thread.

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Originally Posted by Zerich

I'll translate the OP's claim for those of you who didn't understand:

"BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW."

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Arguably the best post in the entire thread.

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Originally Posted by Quetzacoatl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=Liscg9-JddQ

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwnJw-eyacA

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Originally Posted by Zerich

We should let this thread die already

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fix'd for ya

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Originally Posted by Quetzacoatl

fix'd for ya

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cool story bro
but srsly, calling for a nerf on other people's jobs is like my calling for WHM's Cure5 to cure only 100 HP more than Cure4, at max.
you have to face that SE believes that WARs somehow gimpy defensive ability (defender) would give it reason enough to gimp it's WS' potential damage.
MNK's nerf was pretty justified imho, cause all they're missing is the ability to heal alliances and haste themselves.


But no, I do not think that nerfs are the way to go for developing an MMO with recently introduced game-content (in relative terms to FFXI)
It would probably more intelligent to add new content to give the next job-of-the-month a chance to shine with a new awesome OMFG drop.

Oh yes, and of course


BALANCE

Oh no, one of the new ws are actually useful, well because I'm butthurt about other pointless nerfs, everyone has to go down with me.

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Originally Posted by Coldbrand

Oh no, one of the new ws are actually useful, well because I'm butthurt about other pointless nerfs, everyone has to go down with me.

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Too useful. I wouldn't mind if it's useful, but too useful is a different matter. we'll just have to wait and see how many SAMs are running around after the WAR & Ukkos/VS nerfs go live.

Those nerfs shouldn't go live to begin with.

Maybe a better idea would be to up the damage on the other ws's before we nerf the few that got it right?

Honestly, I could care less about who is dealing more damage if they can add another battle mechanics other than dealing damage. Abyssea and Voidwatch add this queer mechanics called proc system which is a crappy pseudo motivator of job diversity in a fight. In this case, proc system takes precedence of your kill speed. Even if you can 1 shot something, that's useless without proc.

But they should be able doing better stuff than that. Skillchain... if they can employ something like lowering target's magic evasion on related element or even gives various additional effect on various skillchain i.e. silence on 0~500 damage induration/distortion/darkness, paralyze on 500~1000 damage induration/distortion/darkness, etc. And the chance of inflicting such effects and number of effects raise as you making higher SC.

Or you could add magic bursting have chance to enhances TH, making a mob getting resistant to certain damage type after a certain amount of that type of damage inflicted to it, etc.

See how this is more interesting than stacking up haste, load all your JA, and whack away.

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Originally Posted by MojoJojo

Maybe a better idea would be to up the damage on the other ws's before we nerf the few that got it right?

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War was supposed to be a tank to begin with, they're just trying to move it away from what it has become.
That aside, and even shoha aside, there's litteraly 2 jobs dominating the game atm. War or mnk or GTFO basically. They're "balance" is attempting to make the other jobs more usable. And no. upping otehr jobs is not a viable option. Then it would have no end and then entire game will just turn into munchkin.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

War was supposed to be a tank to begin with, they're just trying to move it away from what it has become.
That aside, and even shoha aside, there's litteraly 2 jobs dominating the game atm. War or mnk or GTFO basically. They're "balance" is attempting to make the other jobs more usable. And no. upping otehr jobs is not a viable option. Then it would have no end and then entire game will just turn into munchkin.

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That was the point I was trying to make when I said "oh hey, let's boost virtually every other weapon skill in the game!" God this game has made me become too negative for my own good.

SQUARE-ENIX, WE NEED TO NERF YOUR NEGATIVE NANCY-CREATING CAPABILITIES, KTHX.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

War was supposed to be a tank to begin with, they're just trying to move it away from what it has become.
That aside, and even shoha aside, there's litteraly 2 jobs dominating the game atm. War or mnk or GTFO basically. They're "balance" is attempting to make the other jobs more usable. And no. upping otehr jobs is not a viable option. Then it would have no end and then entire game will just turn into munchkin.

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Erm.... are you drunk or something?

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Erm.... are you drunk or something?

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He has a point. SE has a knack of bumping everything up and down.

mostly down, rarely up.

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Originally Posted by Quetzacoatl

He has a point. SE has a knack of bumping everything up and down.

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Yeah, but..... War is not supposed to be a DD anymore, and the game will break if any other job is ever as powerful? and the wording / spacing and and....wtf is wrong with that post.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Yeah, but..... War is not supposed to be a DD anymore, and the game will break if any other job is ever as powerful? and the wording / spacing and and....wtf is wrong with that post.

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I think he meant that when Square-Enix starts nerfing and boosting several jobs into various amounts of broken and overpowered, back and forth repeatedly, the game will start to break.

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Originally Posted by Finuve

so why did ur damage suck so bad? I was hitting 4k average 2hits with 1 STR atma, that 1 STR atma doesnt make 1600 damage

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- I don't care for my average. I didn't track it.
- I don't care for your average, but I don't see how your average unbelievable or how my average can fall significantly lower than you do. You keep got yourself pestered by my "2.3k~2.4k when just 2 hit landed" while it certainly, in no way of, saying that is my average.

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Originally Posted by Quetzacoatl

You should get one for your SAM regardless, if you're serious about your job.

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Thank you for the concern, but my resources (time) isn't yours to be paying. If you do, then by all means come to Asura become my slave for working into one.

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Originally Posted by Theytak

Honestly, VZX, it feels kind of weird to disagree with you on numbers, but still;

Between the significant amount of STR gear available to sams, the moderately strong fTP relative to the other new ws, the fact that whoring out str gear increases the likelihood of capping fSTR even on stronger mobs, or getting fairly close on super tough ones, and the significant attack bonus shoha has allowing it to reach the pDIF cap much more easily than most ws; how can you not see how overpowered this ws is?

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Because you are seeing Abyssea.

You see these new WS have shear amount of base damage compared to previous WS. You see around 200 on dagger and close to 300 on 2 hander, while old WS only have like 60% of the amount and empyrean has close to 80% of the amount.
If you've already unlocked Exenterator to max, you should be able to see it how multi hit can boost your damage significantly.

We agree how devastating a crit'able WS becomes when you use RR atma. My Chant du Cygne outside abyssea probably can only spike up to slightly above 2k. In abyssea, I can spike close to 6k (maybe have broken one?) with RR GH and apoc. Almost 3x amount of damage
2-hit shoha is about 2.1k outside abyssea, 2.3k~2.4k with 2 hits landed and just cruor buff. I don't see how it's more broken than my CdC in terms of damage scaling when appropriate atmas are used.

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Originally Posted by Quetzacoatl

when Square-Enix starts nerfing and boosting several jobs into various amounts of broken and overpowered, back and forth repeatedly, the game will start to break.

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Somehow I doubt that. People thought the whole game would never survive the level cap increase to 80. It's just math and stuff. Nerfs are just the easy way out. It's like letting air out of 3 of your tires because one is low. Sure it's easier than getting out the bicycle pump, or driving to the filling station, but now you have 4 crappy tires.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Somehow I doubt that. People thought the whole game would never survive the level cap increase to 80. It's just math and stuff. Nerfs are just the easy way out. It's like letting air out of 3 of your tires because one is low. Sure it's easier than getting out the bicycle pump, or driving to the filling station, but now you have 4 crappy tires.

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Fuck, that's a simple way to look at it <,<

Wow, someone posted a screenshot of a 7k Shoha (Abyssea trash mob no less) and everyone wants SAM nerfed.

A lot of unknowns surround that screenshot considering it was done inside Abyssea.

1. No one knows what Atma was used, possibly could have been Smiting/Griffon/Apoc.

2. High possibility that Apoc atma was used so it's possible/likely that Triple attack happened on both hits.

3. What was the subjob? Was it /THF and Sneak Attack was used?

4. People enjoy taking pictures of their epeen weapon skill damage, that screenshot could have been the best result after several hours, possibly with all of the above, who knows?


The point is that there's many variables involved in that screenshot considering the zone, and the chances of SAM producing 14k + skillchain damage from 2 weapon skills is highly unlikely inside Abyssea, and impossible outside.

Someone should post what an Ukon's fury and Victory smite does inside abyssea lol Posting damage on a weak sauce mob and inside abyssea makes you look like a retard. Nerfs never help the game at all. But you're dumb to think Ukon's fury and victory smite doesn't do more than 7k+ inside abyssea. I've seen 11k+ and more before.

Shoha does about 2-3k+ outside abyssea which I can already do with Fudo for a long long time since empyreans were introduced. Instead of asking for nerfs you should be bitchin about the nerfs in the first place. Not other jobs. This is childish as all hell.

Yeah, that's a pretty neat Triple attack Shoha you got there, Apoc, AaO, VV?

Ok... Gimping Ukko and VS.. which you have to EARN....and WORK for.. but not gimping a ws that does retarded damage that you can get in a day. THAT makes sense. Are the DEVs making this decision the same ones who made XIV? they HAVE to be. Only thing that would make such a stupid choice make sense.

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Originally Posted by Patters

Ok... Gimping Ukko and VS.. which you have to EARN....and WORK for.. but not gimping a ws that does retarded damage that you can get in a day. THAT makes sense. Are the DEVs making this decision the same ones who made XIV? they HAVE to be. Only thing that would make such a stupid choice make sense.

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Technically you have to work for Tachi: Shoha too. But yes, Abyssea EXP comes around so fast that the Time:Reward ratio getting the Weapon Skill in comparison to getting Empyreans is nowhere near the same.

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Originally Posted by Quetzacoatl

Tell me about it. The game is going back to 2003-2006 again already.

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*sarcasm mode on*
Not to take away from the discussion, but you aren't the first person to mention this. I find it kind of ironic with all the calls from people wanting the good old days before abyssea back. Here's a taste of it and maaaan are people mad. Make your you minds! lol
*sarcasm mode off*

Seriously though, it does need some balancing. I've seen this Ws in action and it is kinda... just wow. o.o;

Wow really boo hoo wee wee lvl sam and shut up my god like listening to a bunch of kids aint much diff in the VS's iv seen from mnks >.>

I got 99 sam! :D yey me

If they're going to nerf other people's good weapon skills, they need to nerf Shona too, it's way to overpowered compared to a everything other than Ukkos and Vsmnite as they exist right now. So obviously once Ukkos and Vsmite are nerfed Shona will be way better than them.

It's SE's way of taking away a players happy. You got something good?! We spit on you! pork fried rice!

http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/...216_135334.png

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Yeah, uh, we need you to nerf this too, and um...we would like you to have it done before the Ukko's Fury and Victory Smite nerfs go live on the game servers. That'll be greeaat.

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the worst part is how common numbers like that are with that WS

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http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/8365/10634865.jpg

Two 6.8k Drakesbanes in 3 minutes zomg that high damage is common NERF DRG TOO!11

Nice windower plugins Ophan

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/...216_135334.png




http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/8365/10634865.jpg

Two 6.8k Drakesbanes in 3 minutes zomg that high damage is common NERF DRG TOO!11

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To bad thats in abyssea. Sam can do that any where on top of doing it getting a couple SC chains then start all over again. When a sam can reduce a IT mob's HP outside of abyssea 90/95% in one skillchain there is something wrong. Post a pick of you drg doing that outside of abyssea.

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

To bad thats in abyssea. Sam can do that any where on top of doing it getting a couple SC chains then start all over again. When a sam can reduce a IT mob's HP outside of abyssea 90/95% in one skillchain there is something wrong. Post a pick of you drg doing that outside of abyssea.

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Please, pleeeeease show me a sam doing 7k outside of abyssea. I will bow at their feet because they are the god of Sams and obviously I'm doing something wrong.

Wow... reading back, Ironpandemonium seems to have a huge rage issue, and takes the game WAYYYYYYY too seriously. Jesus Christ.

So let me get this right, all the WAR's who had it great for so long are now crying me a river because SAM is getting more powerfull? Like really? lmao now thats just sad, and i agree with the previous posters, a troll thread is a troll thread, if SE takes even the slightest notice of this thread they are indeed dumb. Lets hope Tanaka doesnt listen to these baby cries and leaves SAM to return to what it does best :)

And on that note has anyone actually seen how much the nerf effects WAR and MNK?

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Originally Posted by Patters

revenant fists +2

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Good to know son.

As for the matter of being supposedly "too serious" about the game,

http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/...216_135334.png

Pretty good number, am I right.

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4619/nerfthisplease.png

100% TP (125% with moonshade earring to be exact), berserk, voracious violet/razed ruins/apocalypse with Draca Couse and 5/5 merits and no food.

SEEMS LIKE AN EXPECTED WEAPON SKILL IS THE ONE THAT NEEDS A NERF AROUND HERE, TIME TO MAKE ANOTHER THREAD ABOUT IT.

damn iron you so mad, go back to ffxiah.. oh wait.

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/7...samotherfu.png

obligatory

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Originally Posted by IronPandemonium

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/7...samotherfu.png

obligatory

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I don't agree with your politics, but please keep posting silly things. That's really all there is left to say in this thread.

lolonly7kshohadamage
http://static.ffxiah.com/images/ss/f...ckJ8F3p2U6.png

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/g...fd00de1575.png

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Originally Posted by Quetzacoatl

Technically you have to work for Tachi: Shoha too. But yes, Abyssea EXP comes around so fast that the Time:Reward ratio getting the Weapon Skill in comparison to getting Empyreans is nowhere near the same.

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You can get a 85 masamune in like 10-12 hours (well my ls can) so it's not really that much more of a callenge

either way lol at a QQ thread honestly ur just jealous your not SAM (otherwise why mention competing w/ SAMs)

ps doing 7k to a fodder mob one shots it ... i can already do that on my SCH w/ my nukes so i need to be nerfed too >>