One million limit points for a sidegrade? What is the Dev Team's logic behind this?

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

You have missed the main point of this topic.

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I can't miss what's not there. I'm setting up and hitting on my own points. What's yours'?

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Originally Posted by Psxpert2011

I can't miss what's not there. I'm setting up and hitting on my own points. What's yours'?

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The complaint is not that the weaponskills cost one million limit points. The complaint is that several of the weaponskills are side-grades that cost one million limit points.

A lot of people are basically overlooking the word "dead" in the sentence "I'm not paying a hundred dollars for a dead pure-bred puppy with papers included." and saying that the price is next-to-nothing for such a product. The problem isn't the price-point, it's the attempt to sell a dead puppy.

Of course it's next-to-nothing. Five or ten million wouldn't be any sweat either. However, in the case of the weaponskills that are meant to be Rampage +.05 or Drakesbane -.05 or Guillotine (Again[Again]), it just feels insulting for there to be any transaction at all. It's the principle of it.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

The complaint is not that the weaponskills cost one million limit points. The complaint is that several of the weaponskills are side-grades that cost one million limit points.

A lot of people are basically overlooking the word "dead" in the sentence "I'm not paying a hundred dollars for a dead pure-bred puppy with papers included." and saying that the price is next-to-nothing for such a product. The problem isn't the price-point, it's the attempt to sell a dead puppy.

Of course it's next-to-nothing. Five or ten million wouldn't be any sweat either. However, in the case of the weaponskills that are meant to be Rampage +.05 or Drakesbane -.05 or Guillotine (Again[Again]), it just feels insulting for there to be any transaction at all. It's the principle of it.

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If they are side-grades and not worth your time, then don't bother.

What's the problem?

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Originally Posted by Buffy

If they are side-grades and not worth your time, then don't bother.

What's the problem?

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There isn't a problem, honestly. I'd just prefer to have the same excitement about upgrading Ruinator that I do about upgrading Last Stand. Instead, I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop when someone attempts to Ruinate something with high defense and hoping that shoe isn't too heavy.

My last post sounded a lot more aggravated than I actually am, I guess. That's what I get for holding in a burning, churning poop to type it up.

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Originally Posted by Psxpert2011

I can't miss what's not there. I'm setting up and hitting on my own points. What's yours'?

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So sam gets to have a WS thats as good or better then Emp. but others jobs can't get a WS better then a free lvl 60 one. Better yet how about whm getting told they wanted the WS to be better for jobs that don't use club for anything other then procing. Only time I thought about using club on blu before abyssea was the Slashing immune floor in limbus.

I like how people are pretty much ok with "Im going to let SE punch me in the face while I pay them $10 to do so."

No one is saying 1 million merits is hard. Its just to ask for so much for a WS that isnt that much better.

As for "if you dont like it, dont do it" Why even waste time making content that people won't do because its pointless?

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Originally Posted by Buffy

If they are side-grades and not worth your time, then don't bother.

What's the problem?

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The poroblem is that the 4 people who actually make this game spent a ton of time making them, and they're #*%^ing useless. Their time would of been better spent doing something else that people will actually want to use/is worth doing.

Or SE could just make them useful, so all the time they put into them actually matters.

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Originally Posted by Kimble

Most are either bad, or can be slightly better. Only about 3 or 4 are really that great. Others are situational and outdone by empy ws due to ODD.

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You really expected free WS to outperform empyrean WS?

Really?


As long as they are better than other free WS they are fine. And most of them are.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

options thus far, such as Polearm, Scythe, and Axe.

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Stardiver is fTP .75 on all hits, but because it has non 1.0 fTP on 2'nd to 4'th hits they also recieve the fTP bonus from belt and gorget. Therefor by wearing these the WS gains .8 to it's total fTP. Also Stardiver doesn't have anti Berserk like Drakesbane. or a pdiff penalty like Penta Thrust.

Ruinator doesn't spike as high as Rampage but it's average damage is consistently higher.

Ah, I can see the reason for being upset now. :( I'm sorry they're not so great even upgraded. I hope that for everyone's sake (devs too because they spent time making them!) that they get improved. I think the amount of limit points is good, but the damage should at least reflect the time put into them...

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Therefor by wearing these the WS gains .8 to it's total fTP.

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But this is still a weakness, because the subsequent hits are still less than 1.0 which all other multi-hit weapon skills have. In order for this characteristic (propgation of fTP) to be viewable as a benefit and not a nerfing mechanism, the fTP value would have to be at least 0.9 (which would make the fTP 1.0 on all hits when wearing a gorget).

TL;DR: The propogation of the fTP value to all hits is to limit the weaponskill's power, not enhance it. These weaponskills would be more powerful overall if the fTP was only different on the first hit.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

But this is still a weakness, because the subsequent hits are still less than 1.0 which all other multi-hit weapon skills have. In order for this characteristic (propgation of fTP) to be viewable as a benefit and not a nerfing mechanism, the fTP value would have to be at least 0.9 (which would make the fTP 1.0 on all hits when wearing a gorget).

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It's still better that Drakesbane (outside abyssea) or Penta Thrust because it doesn't have -20% attack (Drakes) or a pdiff penalty (Penta)

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

You really expected free WS to outperform empyrean WS?

Really?


As long as they are better than other free WS they are fine. And most of them are.



Stardiver is fTP .75 on all hits, but because it has non 1.0 fTP on 2'nd to 4'th hits they also recieve the fTP bonus from belt and gorget. Therefor by wearing these the WS gains .8 to it's total fTP. Also Stardiver doesn't have anti Berserk like Drakesbane. or a pdiff penalty like Penta Thrust.

Ruinator doesn't spike as high as Rampage but it's average damage is consistently higher.

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So what about sam huh. We are not saying it should be better they should better then a level 60 WS. What we got is the one that are better(even slightly) were given to jobs that already had good WS. Only use blu has for the sword WS is to SSC, so it really is like they are begging people to use windower. On top of all else you get to have only 3 merited to worth a crap levels. Its not just one thing its the whole package that sucks.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

You really expected free WS to outperform empyrean WS?

Really?


As long as they are better than other free WS they are fine. And most of them are.

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No, if you knew how to follow a conversation, you'd know i've been saying that level 99, 360+ skill WS worth 100 merits should be better than a level 60, 200 skill WS.

You keep saying so many of them are good, yet others who are actually accountable and do testing have shown other wise.

TO EVERYONE SAYING "I don't understand what you're arguing" "Boohoo, 1,000,000 merits isn't a lot" "these ws aren't as bad as you whiners are making it out to be" or anything else that comes off with a similar tone/meaning;

allow me to explain in detail the issue with these new WS.

Of the fourteen WS;

Tachi: Shoha and Last Stand: Provide very powerful ws that rival or surpass the other, already powerful alternatives

Exenterator and Resolution: Provide strong ws that can rival (resolution) or exceed (exenterator) their previously limited or weak ws selection

Shijin Spiral, Upheaval, Apex Arrow, and Blade: Shun: Provide decently powerful ws that soundly defeat the non-empyrean ws available

Shattersoul: Completely destroys every other ws for it's weapon skill, like tachi: shoha, but does so because staff weaponskills are all garbage anyway.

Ruinator and Realmrazer: Were intentionally weakened so as to not exceed, but rather, deal the same average damage as ws gained far earlier (rampage and hexa strike, respectively)

Entropy and Stardiver: Were not stated to be, but are very obviously intended to fall in to the same line as ruinator and realmrazer, not exceeding previous ws, but doing the same average damage, or less in stardiver's case.

Requiescat: is complete garbage

Before these ws were available:
Great Katana had several strong ws, and had even stronger relic and empyrean ws
Marksmanship had several moderately strong ws, and a very powerful empyrean ws
Dagger had a large variety of ws that dealt similar damage in different situations, but no one universally powerful ws
Greatsword had torcleaver and otherwise sucked
Hand-to-Hand had moderately powerful ws (asuran fists), and a very powerful empyrean ws (pups get stringing pummel, which rivals victory smite in terms of damage potential when VS was used by a pup, but wouldn't be able to compete with a mnk using VS)
Great axe had two fairly strong ws, two situationally strong ws, and a very powerful empyrean ws
Archery had the same moderately strong ws as marksmanship, and a very powerful empyrean ws
Katana has one moderately strong ws, and a very powerful empyrean ws
Staff had nothing but crap
Axe had one moderately strong ws that was lackluster when compared to other weapons, and the weakest melee empyrean ws
Club had one moderately strong ws that was limited to a single, non-melee job, and one very situational ws (true strike)
Scythe had several ws that all did the same average amount of damage, but none that were strong compared to other weapons, and a fairly lack luster empyrean ws (that does roughly the same amount of damage as every other scythe ws)
Polearm had one strong ws, one mediocre ws, and a laughable empyrean ws that was only a step above Axe
Sword had one moderately strong ws, one (two for pld) situational ws for damage resistant monsters that SE stopped players from using by giving every new NM worth fighting an incredibly powerful resistance to the damage type of that ws, and a very powerful empyrean ws

These new ws cause the following changes:
Great Katana gets another very powerful ws, that is arguably more powerful than any ws previously added to the game
Marksmanship gets another strong ws that can be used in the situations where the powerful empyrean is less appealing
Dagger gets another strong ws that is slightly stronger than it's previous half dozen sidegrade ws
Great Sword gets a non-empyrean ws that isn't awful
Hand-to-Hand gets a new ws that effectively gives monks a ws between asuran fists and victory smite (shijin spiral is a "more consistent" version of stringing pummel), giving non-empyrean mnks a new top ws
Great Axe gets another strong ws that fills both general damage and situationally powerful slots, for non-empyrean wars
Archery gets another strong ws that gives non-empyrean rngs a new top ws
Katana gets a moderate side-grade ws for higher-defense mobs
Staff gets a ws that doesn't suck
Axe gets a second ws menu option for the ws "rampage" that results in more consistent, but not any better, damage
Club gets a second ws menu option for the ws "hexastrike" that results in more consistent, but not any better, damage, and allows jobs other than whm to use a non-situational club ws
Scythe gets its fifth ws menu option for the ws "guillotine" that deals approximately the same damage but has a different additional effect
Polearm gets a middle of the road ws that replaces the level 49 ws for drgs who don't have their mythic ws quested
Sword gets nothing of value whatsoever

The new ws thus do this for jobs:
Sam: Gets another very strong ws, which is stronger than it's very powerful empyrean ws
Rng: gets one very strong ws that rivals its marksmanship empyrean ws, and a second strong ws for non-empyrean archery
Dnc, Thf: get another slightly stronger ws
Drk: Gets a useable non-empyrean great sword ws, and a fifth version of the scythe ws it got at level 60
Mnk, Pup: gets a new top ws for non-empyrean mnks and pups, and pups that don't have stringing pummel
War: gets a new top ws for non-ukko wars, and another version of rampage meaning that 1h axes will remain unused
Nin: gets a better ws for tanking high defense mobs
Mages: get a ws that doesn't suck
Bst: gets another version of rampage
Drg: gets a replacement for penta thrust, if they don't have drakesbane
Pld, Blu, Rdm: get absolutely nothing of value whatsoever

However, all of this requires 5/5 for a given ws, thus capping us to 3 per character. As it stands:
Tachi: Shoha, Last Stand, Exenterator, and Shattersoul are worth meriting (4 of 14)
Shijin Spiral, Apex Arrow, Blade: Shun, Resolution, and Upheaval are worth meriting if you don't have an empyrean weapon (5 of 14)
Stardiver is worth meriting if you're a drg main and you don't have drakesbane, but you would be better spent getting drakesbane instead
Ruinator, Realmrazer, Entropy, and Requiescat are absolutely not worth meriting (4 of 14)

The problem is this: With a 3 ws cap, all of the upgrade for non-empy holder ws suddenly lose a lot of value, effectively leaving 2/3 of these ws worthless. Everyone will eventually end up with Tachi Shoha/Last Stand/Exenterator as their 5/5s, because those will be the only ws worth meriting.

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Originally Posted by Jackstin

I'm not saying they are perfect or even anywhere near right at the moment. I'm just saying that having Merited WSs stronger than Standard WSs, but weaker than ones you have to Quest for, makes total sense.

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This only "makes total sense" in a world where half of the quested weaponskills don't suck. Cloudsplitter says hi.

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Originally Posted by Olor

This only "makes total sense" in a world where half of the quested weaponskills don't suck. Cloudsplitter says hi.

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Ok well let me rephrase what I'm saying. These new merited WSs should be pretty good, an improvement on normal WSs, but not uber.

Im a a dragoon. I don't have drakesbane. I want drakesbane. The only way to obtain drakesbane is Nyzul Isle. I suppose I could run floor 1 a million times and hope I get lucky but I'll be doing WS points til the universe dies a heat death before I unlock it. I was looking forward to these new WS and sadly all Im getting is a sense of they're all pretty awful. Except for Sam. Which excels.

Sam in never recieving a bad update shocker. Alert the media!

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Originally Posted by Tavien

Im a a dragoon. I don't have drakesbane. I want drakesbane. The only way to obtain drakesbane is Nyzul Isle. I suppose I could run floor 1 a million times and hope I get lucky but I'll be doing WS points til the universe dies a heat death before I unlock it. I was looking forward to these new WS and sadly all Im getting is a sense of they're all pretty awful. Except for Sam. Which excels.

Sam in never recieving a bad update shocker. Alert the media!

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so 1 million ws point sureeee, but 10nyzul runs isnt?

Im not sure you're entirely getting my point.

1 Million WS points isn't going to work for me. However, how am I meant to climb Nyzul when the best party I can throw together struggles to clear floor 15? Oh, I know! I can shout! For people! Who won't want to join.

Please do tell me what a dragoon is supposed to do to gain access to their only decent WS when they can't get support to actually do the required event?

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Originally Posted by Brolic

so 1 million ws point sureeee, but 10nyzul runs isnt?

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getting to 100 nyzul is harder than getting 100 merit points these days, I won't disagree, but given that of the twenty nyzul ws, only a couple are worth the effort for more than a situational tool, it's understandable that a lot of people don't bother these days.

That said, telling us they're going to give us the Final skill based WS for our weapons with the 99 cap, and then yanking it away from us by actually giving us the most asinine system imaginable and making it so we can only have three not suck, and making a large number of them effectively worthless by making 1-2 of them absolutely amazing is just obnoxious.

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Originally Posted by Tavien

Im not sure you're entirely getting my point.

1 Million WS points isn't going to work for me. However, how am I meant to climb Nyzul when the best party I can throw together struggles to clear floor 15? Oh, I know! I can shout! For people! Who won't want to join.

Please do tell me what a dragoon is supposed to do to gain access to their only decent WS when they can't get support to actually do the required event?

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find some friends that aren't completely inept? Nyzul wasn't hard at 75, it just hand random impossible floors that everyone had to deal with and got screwed over by. At 99, if you've got a group of 4-5 people with any intelligence and half-decent gear, you should be able to smoke nyzul in your sleep. the only thing that will slow you down is the 1 assault tag per 24 hours crap, and random obnoxious lamp floors.

It should be functionally impossible to fail floor 15 at 95-99 with the minimum people required for entry... like you'd have to try to fail and afk the whole time to do it.

And again we come back to FIND PEOPLE WHO ARE GOOD AT THE GAME. Brilliant.

Because all my problems are solved by just hoping to find people who are experts who haven't already banded together into a low man power house already.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

It should be functionally impossible to fail floor 15 at 95-99 with the minimum people required for entry... like you'd have to try to fail and afk the whole time to do it.

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I can attest to watching a group fail F10 at 90, it was epicly hilarious.

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Originally Posted by Tavien

And again we come back to FIND PEOPLE WHO ARE GOOD AT THE GAME. Brilliant.

Because all my problems are solved by just hoping to find people who are experts who haven't already banded together into a low man power house already.

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no one said experts. We said "people who aren't stupid".

Whm Puller/Sleeper DDx3-4 is all you need for nyzul success. If you happen to have a good (read: not talking totally done with abyssea 95 empy weapon, I don't even mean someone with full AF3+2) DD, they can probably pull the weight of two DDs easy.

Whm heals, brd and rdm can both pretty effectively pull/sleep, or have a blm or a sch for sleeps and get a nin/thf/dnc/rng/randommeleejobwitharangedattackandshadows to pull, let the other melees chew threw target mobs, go up to the next floor, rinse, repeat. If you get lamps, pray for "everyone hits one" or "same time", especially if you don't have a full party of 6. If you get soulflayers and dahaks... hell, you're level 95-99 now, just slaughter them. Fight Fafnir on his feet, not his tail or in front of him. turtle, behemoth, cerb, khimi, and hydra are all cakewalks; all of them just pop your 2hour and go for broke. they won't last 2 minutes. probably won't last 1.

Seriously, nyzul isn't hard.

Don't even need a WHM, RDM or SCH can handle it, would even say RDM or SCH are superior to WHM. Nyzul wasn't hard at 75, at 99 it's merely a "let's see if we can beat it in 10 minutes this time!" sort of deal. You don't even need a full group, 3 or 4 people can clear any floor with no problem. Could even clear 10 floors per tag if your group is good enough.

To avoid failure due to lack of reading comprehension on lamp floors, administer a short English language test previous to entry.

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Originally Posted by Prothscar

Don't even need a WHM, RDM or SCH can handle it, would even say RDM or SCH are superior to WHM. Nyzul wasn't hard at 75, at 99 it's merely a "let's see if we can beat it in 10 minutes this time!" sort of deal. You don't even need a full group, 3 or 4 people can clear any floor with no problem. Could even clear 10 floors per tag if your group is good enough.

To avoid failure due to lack of reading comprehension on lamp floors, administer a short English language test previous to entry.

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can we just make that English language test mandatory for anyone making an English account, and include a monthly revisit of it with randomized questions? Also, I said whm because of how OP whm healing with cureskin would make easy mode even easier.

I'm currently at 3/5 upgrades for Resolution.

Can anyone give me some insight on it at 5/5?

Last I heard, it was on par if not better than Torcleaver. At 3/5, I'm just past Spinning Slash.

I appreciate the insight but it does nothing to help me with the fact whenever I try to put a group together I don't have the choice to say "you're not good enough, no thanks" and im usually going to be stuck with whatever is available.

This doesn't change the notion I came into the thread to express, I was looking forward to a lot of these weaponskills and they're seemingly underwhelming. I, personally, was hoping for a more achievable alternative to Drakesbane and apparently that's not what we got.

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Originally Posted by Kimble

No, if you knew how to follow a conversation, you'd know i've been saying that level 99, 360+ skill WS worth 100 merits should be better than a level 60, 200 skill WS.

You keep saying so many of them are good, yet others who are actually accountable and do testing have shown other wise.

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Nobody is "accountable" on the internet lol.

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Originally Posted by Theytak

Entropy and Stardiver: Were not stated to be, but are very obviously intended to fall in to the same line as ruinator and realmrazer, not exceeding previous ws, but doing the same average damage, or less in stardiver's case.

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Stardiver actually does more damage than Drakesbane on anything that doesn't have gimp DEF because Drakesbane has a -20% attack penalty.

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Originally Posted by Theytak

Marksmanship had several moderately strong ws, and a very powerful empyrean ws

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Wildfire sucks outside Abyssea and inside it's only good if you gimp your physical damage by equipping MAB and fire damage atmas.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

I'm currently at 3/5 upgrades for Resolution.

Can anyone give me some insight on it at 5/5?

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Belt/Gorget gives a 1.0 fTP bonus to Resolution thanks to it's non 1.0 fTP on the second ~ fifth hits.

Decided what the hell, broke the cap tonight and dragoon has always been my focus. Might as well pour a gazillion merits into stardiver. At the very least im going to look badass XD

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

Wildfire sucks outside Abyssea and inside it's only good if you gimp your physical damage by equipping MAB and fire damage atmas.

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All you did was prove you are a moron. lol

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Originally Posted by Kimble

All you did was prove you are a moron. lol

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Well I guess if you're a COR it might not.

RNG can gear for Wildfire just as well as COR so it really shouldn't make a huge difference. The only difference between my RNG and COR WF sets is Seriyu kotes over those +9 AGI hands. Well, and AF3+2 feet.

Well, my mistake. COR does get the Fire shot bonus.

RNG has relic gun though so if you can get that, would be best WS overall for RNG.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

It should be functionally impossible to fail floor 15 at 95-99 with the minimum people required for entry... like you'd have to try to fail and afk the whole time to do it.

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Maybe if you had morons and got like 3 different lamp floors

oh who am i kidding



Also, does Shoha not have a particularly significant accuracy bonus like the other GK WSes? Was using it last night and noticing Consequences of the Heafoc/Varangian variety.

I got 5/5 Shoha, I had to gimp myself with justice torque + AF3 body just to be able to use the WS cuz my GK skill was gimp and it was still retarded powerful

I was hitting 3-4k on Sharabha in altepa who I was skilling up off of

of course this is dumb, what I'm hearing is its better than Fudo, seriously SE WTF was with your explanation of nerfing realmrazer and ruinator yet you do this with Shoha? seriously, nerf Shoha just a bit and buff realmrazer entropy ruinator and requiescat (and FFS quietus and Camlann's tormetn while your at it)

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Originally Posted by scaevola

Maybe if you had morons and got like 3 different lamp floors

oh who am i kidding



Also, does Shoha not have a particularly significant accuracy bonus like the other GK WSes? Was using it last night and noticing Consequences of the Heafoc/Varangian variety.

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I'd assume the first hit has an accuracy bonus, but not the second.

SAM needed a STRONGER WS? These WS should have bridged the gap between jobs with lousy damage Empyrean WS and jobs with great Empyrean WS not make it worse! Fudo already does outstanding damage in and outside abyssea. Polearm, Axe, Scythe and Club need a hefty boost to make up for Camlann's Torment/Quietus sucking so bad. Remove all "Attack Penalties" from WS please they're unnecessary. Almost every WS is worse or just as good as Empyrean WS but jobs that ALREADY HAD STRONG Empyrean WS got EVEN STRONGER ones.

While we're at it, remove Attack Penalty from Drakesbane. I can see why they'd add it in the first place, a 4hit crit ws on a 2handed weapon seems overpowered without some kind of drawback but the fact that DRG's Attack Rating is already lower than most DDs due to lack of Berserk/Last Resort/Boost and other +Attack boosting skills, leaving it at neutral attack bonus would have been fine. Not only do DRGs have lousy Attack but the Attack Penalty makes it even worse for high level notorious monsters meanwhile WAR MNK and SAM can hack away with their amazingly damaging WS without a care in the world whether the mob is high or low defense they still do 4k+ damage while Drakesbane struggles to deal over 1500.

I didnt notice any accuracy issues compared to YGK, however I do have pretty good accuracy on my WS set with twilight body/helm (25 acc 25 DEX) (cancels out heafoc easily)

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Originally Posted by Dirtyfinger

I'd assume the first hit has an accuracy bonus, but not the second.

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Dunno; getting a lot more 1-tp-returns than my hit rate during TP phase would suggest. Getting a Jinpu vibe, but that could just because I was using Jinpu for amber while screwing around with it.

lol eyeballing but I've had it for about 36 hours, so. Worst case scenario is that it just makes twilight helm/mail more important for scrubs like me than it already was, but I'd have rather not dumped that kind of cruor unless it was necessary.


On topic, Shoha is REALLY strong, but it should have been the standard for the new WSes, not the outlier. 85 Empyrean-holders ought not stand head and shoulders above those without, for simple balance reasons; they are common enough to be considered standard, so content ought to be balanced around DDs capable of a damage output on par with an 85 Empyrean, but forcing people to slog through deprecated content just to be competitive is something FFXI ought to be willing to leave behind.

The benefit to making an 85 Empyrean ought to be going on to make a higher-level Empyrean; if you choose not to do this, it would have been perfectly fine for the benefit to be to not have to invest WS merits in that particular weapon skill, thus saving them for a different job.

honestly, the more I look at these ws, the more I feel that rather than shoha, which is just stupidly op, shijin spiral should be more of the standard for them.

Shijin Spiral is not stronger than victory smite, though it competes rather well against high def mobs, from what I understand. Shijin Spiral handily beats every other h2h ws for monk, including asuran fists, effectively giving non-empy mnks an upgrade. It's not really an upgrade for pup, since it's basically about as strong as stringing pummel, just more consistent with lower spikes. It's pretty much the ideal for what these WS should be. They shouldn't be the absolute best WS, otherwise it screws over a large part of the draw for empy weapons (and sadly, relic weapons, since people don't typically learn how horrible most relic ws are until after they get the weapon), but they should provide a next best alternative for people without r/m/e weapons. Sadly, only a handful of them do that successfully, and SE didn't like that they gave two weapons which were in need of a SERIOUS ws upgrade, a SERIOUS ws upgrade, so they nerfed it.

Balance my left buttcheek.