Hey remember SC > MB? Make it required.

Please SE, guive us back Skllchain --> MB mechanism.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hercule

Please SE, guive us back Skllchain --> MB mechanism.

---

How is it you posted this today without being linked?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hercule

Please SE, guive us back Skllchain --> MB mechanism.

---

The mechanism never went away.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcon

The mechanism never went away.

---

It doesn't answer the bigger question of how he is posting without having a linked account.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

It doesn't answer the bigger question of how he is posting without having a linked account.

---

? i dont understant what you talking about, my account work from my Square enix ID password and security token

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hercule

? i dont understant what you talking about, my account work from my Square enix ID password and security token

---

when he posted your account datas where not shown, looked like un unlinked post

Ok it was maybe a bug or idk...

PS: Trop fort ton pseudo ingame :p

My solution is to get rid of the timing restrictions on SC/MB. If 2 DD's WS back to back or 30 seconds apart, it should still make a SC, if a mage tries to MB 1 second after SC closes, or 30 seconds after it should still proc MB. This way SC/MB would almost be automatic given the right WS's are used to make a SC, and the right spell hits to make a MB. Generally in zerg setups people will just be spamming anyway, so why not just let those WS's make SC's for extra damage, and why not let the mage's have the freedom to cast their MB proc spell anytime after the SC has hit as long as a new SC doesnt overrule it. The DD's would be zerging, while the mages nuke anyway, why not make it so that if they happen to line up correctly that you get the extra damage from it, if not, meh no biggie they were spamming anyway regardless. This way people who want to use SC/MB would have an easier time setting it up and implementing it, while the Zerg crowd would only take advantage of the damage benefits if they stumble on the skillchain while tearing through ws's.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Demios

My solution is to get rid of the timing restrictions on SC/MB. If 2 DD's WS back to back or 30 seconds apart, it should still make a SC, if a mage tries to MB 1 second after SC closes, or 30 seconds after it should still proc MB. This way SC/MB would almost be automatic given the right WS's are used to make a SC, and the right spell hits to make a MB. Generally in zerg setups people will just be spamming anyway, so why not just let those WS's make SC's for extra damage, and why not let the mage's have the freedom to cast their MB proc spell anytime after the SC has hit as long as a new SC doesnt overrule it. The DD's would be zerging, while the mages nuke anyway, why not make it so that if they happen to line up correctly that you get the extra damage from it, if not, meh no biggie they were spamming anyway regardless. This way people who want to use SC/MB would have an easier time setting it up and implementing it, while the Zerg crowd would only take advantage of the damage benefits if they stumble on the skillchain while tearing through ws's.

---

You know Magic bursting isn't hard. Spells like thunder 5 and bliz 5 take what, 5 seconds with proper gear? Legion is the only thing I can think of that would even matter to use MB. And in those situations, DD aren't zerging. So just ask the sams to help you setup, I'll gladly open or close to help setup a MB, and so will many other people if it means we aren't failing content lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Demios

My solution is to get rid of the timing restrictions on SC/MB. If 2 DD's WS back to back or 30 seconds apart, it should still make a SC, if a mage tries to MB 1 second after SC closes, or 30 seconds after it should still proc MB.

---

I'm going to go on an extreme here, and suggest that essentially, performing a Fusion SC would permanently give a bonus to Fire and Light damage for the remainder of the fight?

I think that the amount of time between WSs could be adjusted (perhaps), and that the duration of a Magic Burst window be extended, but certainly not for anything beyond 10-12 seconds. Otherwise, you're gonna have each BLM in a group single-handedly double-MBing Thunaja, Firaja, etc.... no, that'd be a little -too- much.

On the other hand, it would be interesting if new SCs (with these extended weakness times) required multiple SCs without an interim SC.
For example: Instead of WS1 -> WS2 (SC Lv1) -> WS3 (SC Lv2)
Or: WS1 -> WS2 (SC Lv2)
You could have: WS1 -> WS2 (Special Effect trigger without a SC) -> WS3 (SC Lv3 only if previous trigger is initated)
Or: You could require a certain SC to proc in order to remove a physica/magical barrier effect....

This however, complicates the DD coordination greatly, and with the current mechanics in place, zerg will continue to surpass SC/MB relevance.

You'd need some -serious- overhaul to SCs to change that.

I haven't read completely through all 13 pages of this thread, BUT I think the most simple solution would just be increasing the effectiveness of SC.


Basically:
Keep - all the setups, combinations, skillchains, the magic bursts, and even the timings the same. (Although a little more leeway on timing would be nice, even a second for laggers).
But simply change the damage of skillchains or the damage bonus of magic bursts and maybe reduce the enemy's stats.

Imagine a simple Scission, an earth elemental based effect, which lowers the opponents Dexterity, which is commonly associated with the lightning element.

Now imagine Dark/Light skillchains. Which would lower more of the enemy's stats.

Now that is just weapon skills. Physical Damage - Physical Stats reduced.

Next step would be Magic Bursts.

Let's say the first Scission is MB'd with a Stone 1. This should increase the enemy's damage cap taken against Lightning based attacks.

This would lead to another round of Skillchaining and Magic Bursting. The team would need to rotate weaponskills to create a SC to take advantage of the new Lightning weakness.

Of course this is still a lot of planning and understanding of mechanics, but it would definitely be worthwhile against harder enemies and missions.

So maybe update the cap of damage of skillchains. Example: level 1: 100%, level 2:200%, level 3:300%

Although this may seem like a drastic increase, how often do you ever see a skillchain involving more than 2/3 weapon skills?

2 Members spam Weaponskills for maximizing their own damage...

OR

2 Members spending the extra 30 seconds for each other and coordinating a proper and VERY effective skillchain to maximize the overall damage.

From what I've seen the 30 seconds is too much for just a 100% bonus damage SC, when they could just burn the TP and do another WS for just the same amount.

This is why increasing the damage and creating an alluring incentive for people where they can see the significance of teamwork.

Here's the problem: WS spam alone would create multiple Light SCs (with far fewer difficulties than lowering WS damage o accommodate a SC), and since the Tier 3 SCs are supposed to be more powerful, this would still keep "mandatory SCs" out of relevance.

However, you could make it so that Lv1 SCs lower/temporarily remove magic immunity to an element, Lv2 SCs increase Macc and MATK to an element, and Lv3 SCs lower stats.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Llana_Virren

Here's the problem: WS spam alone would create multiple Light SCs (with far fewer difficulties than lowering WS damage o accommodate a SC), and since the Tier 3 SCs are supposed to be more powerful, this would still keep "mandatory SCs" out of relevance.

However, you could make it so that Lv1 SCs lower/temporarily remove magic immunity to an element, Lv2 SCs increase Macc and MATK to an element, and Lv3 SCs lower stats.

---

Sounds like every lazy FFXI player. If they increased the damage and gave us some incentive to switch up our weaponskills, then people wouldn't be so focused on "The easiest way to do decent damage is spam my 1 favorite weaponskill that does big damage". No player wants to use a lesser weaponskill to skillchain with their team just for a magic burst that does mediocre damage. They should just increase the SC damage.

The reason we used to do SC->MB was because that extra 65% damage on a skillchain was AWESOME. Setting up that magic burst with a Tachi: Enpi -> SATA Viper Bite -> Distortion Damage -> Magic Burst.

Back then we NEEDED the extra damage, but most players now kill everything so fast, we forget the option is there until a boss fight. And even then, most players don't bother. Most of the time because we focus on procs first, then by the time we finish our procs, the mob is almost dead and we zerg it down. No point in spending that 15 seconds on a SC if that 15 seconds is all it takes to kill the mob.

What if.... Skillchains add a TH effect?! :O Teamwork points or something. Like a hidden counter on the mob, increasing drop rates or exp or something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xihp

Sounds like every lazy FFXI player. If they increased the damage and gave us some incentive to switch up our weaponskills, then people wouldn't be so focused on "The easiest way to do decent damage is spam my 1 favorite weaponskill that does big damage".

---

or you could just make an empy weapon for your DD and use that WS (they all have Light or Dark properties). VOILA!
SC-baby!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xihp

Sounds like every lazy FFXI player. If they increased the damage and gave us some incentive to switch up our weaponskills, then people wouldn't be so focused on "The easiest way to do decent damage is spam my 1 favorite weaponskill that does big damage". No player wants to use a lesser weaponskill to skillchain with their team just for a magic burst that does mediocre damage. They should just increase the SC damage.

The reason we used to do SC->MB was because that extra 65% damage on a skillchain was AWESOME. Setting up that magic burst with a Tachi: Enpi -> SATA Viper Bite -> Distortion Damage -> Magic Burst.

Back then we NEEDED the extra damage, but most players now kill everything so fast, we forget the option is there until a boss fight. And even then, most players don't bother. Most of the time because we focus on procs first, then by the time we finish our procs, the mob is almost dead and we zerg it down. No point in spending that 15 seconds on a SC if that 15 seconds is all it takes to kill the mob.

What if.... Skillchains add a TH effect?! :O Teamwork points or something. Like a hidden counter on the mob, increasing drop rates or exp or something.

---

These would have been great suggestions 5 years ago when they would have been utilized. The current (and foreseen) environment would not be conducive to these ideae, however. Procs > TH, and Proc > SC. I suggested on a RDM topic that perhaps certain WSs or abilities, when used in a combination (ie SC or chained abilities) woudl temporarily remove NM immunities.

However "nice" and "innovative" these ideas may be, the mechanics of the game simply don't make them relevent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

They already do, just not the kind you're thinking of. lol

---

that made me laugh.

Anyways the game was like that once and everyone complained it was too hard or maybe it was because my monk did not get invites because it does not do distortion, that sc was overrated anyway. Ether even I do not remember all the reasons they complained about having to sc and mb, just that they did.

I liked having to sc and mb but that was lost a long time ago to omg i needz to ws at 100 tp!

Hello everyone! Since last time I posted in this thread, I have actually thought of another idea for skillchains.

What if performing skillchains with multiple people caused the participants in the skillchain to receive buffs based on the properties of the WS?

Skillchain properties consisting of multiple elements would grant buffs for all elements involved, but the way I imagined it, while you would get more buffs, each individual buff would decrease in potency. For example:

Creating a single element skillchain such as Detonation (wind) would significantly greatly increase the evasion and resistance to the wind element when two or more players took part in creating the skillchain. Creating Scission, however, would greatly increase the players' resistance to physical damage, and increase their resistance to the earth element.

If you created fragmentation (lightning+wind) however, you would only receive a moderate increase in evasion and wind resistance, but in addition also receive a boost to accuracy (or maybe critical hit rate instead, i dunno) and lightning resistance.

Creating a Light skillchain would then grant a buff based on fire (attack power, perhaps), light (perhaps cure potency?), wind and lightning, but the boosts to these would only be slight compared to if you did a SC with fewer elements. Of course, all this would be in addition to the ability to magic burst for extra magic accuracy and damage, if you for some reason would want to do this.

In my opinion, this is balanced. The lowest damage SCs have specific but potent buffs, while the strong SCs have several but unfocused buffs in addition to their damage output. Additionally, this buff would only function when there are several participants in the SC, so it would not further increase the power of jobs that can currently easily solo skillchains. Obviously, people would go for light/darkness skillchains for maximum damage output, and there is no doubt that in many situations, this would be the best choice. However, this new system would allow people to sacrifice damage output for other buffs if it would benefit the situation.

I could see this being really useful in lowman situations, where it would enable for example a sam/dnc and sch/whatever to perform Gekko->Immanence Ice to create a magic attack bonus for the sch, after a mob changed from being vulnerable to physical damage to being very strong to physical damage, making it ideal for the smn to nuke it down. It could also allow someone with not-so-great evasion to sacrifice damage output to increase their evasion while they backup tank after "something" went wrong. Even if you were on nin, tanking something that was incredibly evasive and had extreme accuracy, repeatedly performing fragmentation SCs with the ninja to keep the SC buff up fulltime could make the fight much safer.

I imagine that there would be very many situations where you could benefit from these. Please keep in mind that I do not intend for my element-buff suggestions to be set in stone. If you have other/better suggestions for buffs these SCs could grant, feel free to mention them.

I have not yet thought of what would be a balanced potency and duration for these buffs, but it should be enough for it to be noticable. I also think that if you perform several SCs with multiple people in quick succession, the most recent buff should overwire the earlier buffs. For example if a SAM used sekkanoki to perform SCs with two different players, the two other players would receive the buffs as normal, but the samurai would have the buff from his first SC be overwritten by the buff from the second SC.

Outside of the buffs, which would always be beneficial, there would be no change in how anything would work. In a zerg, you'd still not care about any of this and just spam whatever as fast as possible. No penalties would be put on this sort of fight, or any fight of any kind. However, those that take a few extra seconds to organize/synchronize their WSes in a situation where there isn't three WSes going off every 2 seconds, would be able to create new strategies for fighting various monsters that they perhaps think are pretty hard with their setup.

This is actually a pretty cool idea I could get behind. I could see the ginormous bees in Adoulin only taking SC damage. It would be cool to have an enemy that only took SC damage from the element of the game day, but at the same time you would have people sitting there looking at charts for half an hour only to find out they don't have the right setup to make that SC, lol. Seeing people having to use timing and actual teamwork to kill something would be very nostalgic.

On a side note, it would be cool to bring SCs back into the spotlight by making them have bonuses similar to the flourish system. Each SC you close would give you a charge for a new job specific ability or something like that...hell perhaps new WS that require you to have X number of charges available to perform it. There's a lot of possibilities for something like this. Me gusta.

In part, requiring skillchains would actually be one of the best checks to sheer zerg damage in the game.

Imagine if bigger NM's (or HNM's) took vastly reduced physical/magical damage off the bat. Skillchains would "crack" the defense temporarily, allowing for normal physical damage. Likewise magic bursts for magical damage. FAILING to close and/or MB would restore the defenses in question as the mob "turtled up". Broad-spectrum (Darkness/Light) SC's would create the shortest windows of vulnerability, while specific element ones would produce longer openings for normal damage, namely whichever matched the mob's elemental weakness. For MB's, it'd be based on how much MP went into the spell producing the MB- SC'ing Dia for a Light SC would only produce a few seconds of magical vulnerability, while Holy II would leave the target open for a much longer period of time.

Say it's a giant Orc NM. Orcs have Water weakness. Say, a Darkness SC would produce a 10 second window where normal damage was full. A Distortion SC would be 20. A Reverberation would be 30. MBing a Water-type spell on the target would cause magical vulnerability beyond the period of the magic burst for an amount of time between 2-30 seconds depending on the strength of the MB'd spell. Firing off a WS that isn't SC'd would reset the defense immediately after the window to close it failed, failing to MB a SC would reset magic defense.

Even if a mob doesn't have a specific weakness to an element, it can be simply given a generic "break" from SC/MB, possibly reduced vs. mobs that have a specific weakness- and the time breaks are effective for can be varied, to make that mob more or less challenging. Normal mobs could have a similar system- only instead of being a defense break, it leaves the mob vulnerable to additional damage. Closing a SC would increase regular damage rather than remove an exceptional defense for a period of time, and MBing would leave the mob with a magical vulnerability beyond the normal length of an MB- and failing to close an SC/MB would only remove the vulnerability while leaving the mob at normal levels of damage/defense for it's type, rather than giving it superior defenses.

Gotta be something to give combat more sense and reason than "spam your highest DPS at the mob", or else it's all zerg, all the time. It's not like enmity is much of an issue now either...

Im not saying hold off til you can perform a SC but if you have tp on 2 people and can do them it only speeds things up. I dont think i really ever say "hey dude you do tachi retsu and i will follow with shadowstich!" but i will try to time a WS i do to make a SC if possible. sometimes it can really speed up things. Also we dont usually change the WS we do just to make a SC just if they happen to make them.

Make skillchains increase drop rates. Problem solved, people use them now.

Enjoy your Blade: Rin > Wasp Sting > Distortion skillchains for maximum skillchains on a target.

Honestly though for me... it comes down to this.

Know your skillchain properties. Don't make plans to set them up, but if something comes along that could be useful, utilize it. That's more complicated than setting up skillchains, or just spamming TP.

Example:
BST and PUP.
BST uses ruinator and I am closing in on 100 TP. I know that ruinator is distortion.
I am using Victory Smite mainly, which is fragmentation. I also have Stringing Pummel, which is gravitation. Victory Smite and Stringing Pummel are pretty comparable.

If I use Victory Smite, no skill chain happens and I just go on punching things (while Koumei keeps curing me, or casting silence over and over and over and over if the mob has MP [Hi Qilin!]). If I use Stringing Pummel, I make darkness and potentially do a chunk more damage.

TP spam rather than skillchain planning has been shown mathematically to be more effective, and skillchains are usually accidental and a nice bonus. However, if you know your skillchain properties when random opportunities arise, you can take it slightly further. It's all within reason, though. If you are on PUP and have Shijin Spiral (fusion) and no Pummel/smite, if someone uses a fusion weaponskill, DO NOT use dragon kick to make light because combined the damage will probably be less even if light isn't resisted.

In an alliance setting this usually doesn't matter because by the time you use a weaponskill you can skillchain with, someone else probably already weaponskilled. With less people though, this becomes more viable.

tl;dr: skillchain < tp burn @ 100 < tp burn @ 100 with random bonus skillchain damage < tp burn @ 100 with knowledge of skillchain properties to use at an advantage rather than random luck

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rustic

In part, requiring skillchains would actually be one of the best checks to sheer zerg damage in the game.

Imagine if bigger NM's (or HNM's) took vastly reduced physical/magical damage off the bat. Skillchains would "crack" the defense temporarily, allowing for normal physical damage. Likewise magic bursts for magical damage. FAILING to close and/or MB would restore the defenses in question as the mob "turtled up". Broad-spectrum (Darkness/Light) SC's would create the shortest windows of vulnerability, while specific element ones would produce longer openings for normal damage, namely whichever matched the mob's elemental weakness. For MB's, it'd be based on how much MP went into the spell producing the MB- SC'ing Dia for a Light SC would only produce a few seconds of magical vulnerability, while Holy II would leave the target open for a much longer period of time.

Say it's a giant Orc NM. Orcs have Water weakness. Say, a Darkness SC would produce a 10 second window where normal damage was full. A Distortion SC would be 20. A Reverberation would be 30. MBing a Water-type spell on the target would cause magical vulnerability beyond the period of the magic burst for an amount of time between 2-30 seconds depending on the strength of the MB'd spell. Firing off a WS that isn't SC'd would reset the defense immediately after the window to close it failed, failing to MB a SC would reset magic defense.

Even if a mob doesn't have a specific weakness to an element, it can be simply given a generic "break" from SC/MB, possibly reduced vs. mobs that have a specific weakness- and the time breaks are effective for can be varied, to make that mob more or less challenging. Normal mobs could have a similar system- only instead of being a defense break, it leaves the mob vulnerable to additional damage. Closing a SC would increase regular damage rather than remove an exceptional defense for a period of time, and MBing would leave the mob with a magical vulnerability beyond the normal length of an MB- and failing to close an SC/MB would only remove the vulnerability while leaving the mob at normal levels of damage/defense for it's type, rather than giving it superior defenses.

Gotta be something to give combat more sense and reason than "spam your highest DPS at the mob", or else it's all zerg, all the time. It's not like enmity is much of an issue now either...

---

Sounds like staggering in FF13/-2. I'm not opposed to the idea.

How I think current magic Burst System could be made more useful:

Currently Magic Bursts increase magic accuracy and magic damage.

So if there were NMs in the game that took very little physical damage, like turtles, but had very high magic resists rates but took good magic damage, like aspid way back in the day. People would have to use the skillchain system to kill it efficiently, either that use non-physical/magical damage sources like spirits within/requiescat, or i guess tomahawk rotations, but even then magic bursts would be the most efficient of the 3.

How I think magic Bursts could be changed:
I believe Magic Bursts should redirect the enmity of all damage done to the person who opened or closed(probably closed would be better) the skillchain. You could even make this exceed the hate cap then decay over time back down to hate cap. Wouldn't this be an interesting way to bring PLD back into the mix for holding hate even when other DDs are beating on the mob?

You people really think that SCs and MBs we're "necessary"? Sure people tried using them in exp parties. But they quickly learned that because SCs are so tricky to pull of without something going wrong they gave up completely. To make matters worse the game never let's you know when you may perform a skill chain, or what weapon or skills qualify for a skill chain. Even if people once did do SCs and MBs, they now know that they aren't worth the effort.

You want to bring this back, then maybe it's time the game made SCs and MBs practical. The game needs to tell you when a weaponskill should be performed to create an SC so you don't go at the wrong time. I mean c'mon. This is OBVIOUS right? Because that's all people do when they attempt to skillchain in a group. Perform it at the WRONG time.

The only content that this could possibly be "required" or even "good", would be 6-man or lower content.
With anything higher, it would just be an annoying system like proccing.

However, if they made it so SC/MB did a good amount of damage, it would be lovely to see it welcomed back into lowman content.

I don't believe you know what you are talking about. SC > MB was the way most people originally XP partied at the beginning of this game. There are charts and info everywhere on how to do it properly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ManaKing

I don't believe you know what you are talking about. SC > MB was the way most people originally XP partied at the beginning of this game. There are charts and info everywhere on how to do it properly.

---

True, yet arrow burns (RNG/NIN x 4, BRD, RDM) and Manaburns (RDM, BLM x4-5, potentially a bard) back then were also considered better, and they generally did not follow the SC > MB format. Especially arrow burns which were essentially like TP burns. You could SC of course, but the ones my bard was in didn't bother. And the EXP of those (before the RNG nerf) was pretty top notch compared to anything else, even manaburns.

Skillchains were necessary under the right context and those who think otherwise I would love to hear the counter examples. My example would be ksnm99 where the best strategy we used at lvl 75 was skill chain at 60% and have an army of blackmages magic burst the piss out of it, because it takes off for flight leaving most front line jobs useless during this time. Magic bursting added in more damage for when it went into flight and forcing it to land faster.

I'm sure ls's who had people with completed relics of various kinds could probably zerg it down, but none the less, this was one of the best strategies for this fight.

Another example would be fighting nidhog at 75. I would love to see a video of nidhog zerged with out PD or relic holders. I'm sure there are videos out there, but the basic strategy we used for nid was skillchians magic bursting. The main reason, because wings did about 300 AOE dmg, this could be offset with capped stoneskin, blm's could hit this cap with the right gear and enhancing skill. Having few DD that could make frag or light, this was essential to for feeding the mob as little tp as possible so that wings weren't spammed. I for one really enjoyed this strategy, especially double thunder weather on thunders day, breaking 3k back then on magic burst was just insane, but it also meant you were a dead taru lol.

If SE wanted to really send us back to the stoneage of developing stratagies I would love to see Fanatics drinks gone in VW. of course zerging can still be done as long as procs are called out and executed, but if those were gone as well, as well as PD getting nerfed. I know PD is not getting as big as nerf as it could have been but it did prevent people from just lvling smn on mules to sit and wait to PD.

Tiamat. We used skillchains and just flat out nuking and rotated blm's that capped hate>logged out completley and continued the battle. Would love to see a video of tiamat zerged at lvl75 as well. I sure there are videos of this as well but how many shells could do it? Been so long since i fought tiamat and when it was lvl 75, i can't remember if it was dmg or just timed intervals of flight or being on the ground.

In my opinion, as I have stated many times in other posts, keep the window for magic bursting to remain open and not just close when another WS goes off. Hell keep multiple windows open for magic bursting, blms could use the over all boost.

PS EDIT: I'm sure a lot of battle like nighog could be zerged with chainspell stuns ect. don't want to get chewed out for leaving that out

God yes. I've had my fingers crossed for an incentive to SC+MB again... literally since the beginning of ToAU era, it's pretty much the only thing I turn into a nostalgic goofass about.

Wouldn't really like to see any of these ideas rolled out in existing content but it'd be -amazing- if Adoulin gave SC+MB a reason to exist again.

its always was fun to me to set up a SC and MB and the hilarity when one thing would prevent it from happening from one of the participants. every now and then its nice to see if doing a SC will "one shot" (i know its more like 3 shot but im talking bout the stategy as a whole) a mob when i am doin things with friends. But lately this aspect is satiated within me by a few of my jobs that can self SC.

Until we change the fact that 3 100 tp weaponskills do more than a 300tp one, people will not hold tp for sc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by raps1355

Until we change the fact that 3 100 tp weaponskills do more than a 300tp one, people will not hold tp for sc.

---

This is the biggest reason we don't use SC's. The timing on it is simply too strict, go to early and it doesn't count, go to late and it doesn't count. Nuke too early and it won't count, nuke too late and it won't count. It's simply more efficient to ignore the entire concept and just hit things as hard as possible.

There is a TV Trope exactly for this,

Awesome but Impractical

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by raps1355

Until we change the fact that 3 100 tp weaponskills do more than a 300tp one, people will not hold tp for sc.

---

because when you want to SC you have to hold to 300TP?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hiko

because when you want to SC you have to hold to 300TP?

---

No, but you have to hold, and the more you hold the more damage you waste.

But that's not the only problem SC faces. Not only would one person have to hold, but all persons involved in the battle, which is a lot to ask and will never happen unless the window opening for SC execution is lowered as well.

SC lost practicality when Alliance based play became the norm. The only way to make it relevant for Alliances is to artificially increase the significance of it or to make it better designed.

If SCs are required for proc systems or drops or clearing content, then that would be a way you could make them significant but not actually more relevant to game. I don't like proc systems. They feel like a cop out. Instead of fixing the already very broken hate system, they distracted us with spamming random JAs, spells, and WSs for no actual purpose.

If they wanted to make it better designed, then they could do a number of things to make it relevant for game play. SC damage is largely useless against terrible things that have extreme amounts of magic resistance. That really should be addressed in some way. They don't have to make it so SCs do obscene amounts of damage, but it is ridiculous that you can do Light on something for 1/8 of the closing WS damage. That's just bad and makes people see the obvious weakness in an otherwise fun system.

They could adjust it so that you could toggle SCing on a party level or an alliance level. That way, you put all your corresponding WSs in different parties so they don't cross the streams.

Quote:

---

SC lost practicality when Alliance based play became the norm.

---

SC's lost practicality LONG before Abyssea. They were dieing near the end of COP and going into ToAU. Nobody SC'd after level 70 when everything turned into spampage on deco's in sky or vs demons or vs cockatrices and tigers.

Sky NM was SC based for awhile, but then shells figured they could kill NM's much faster if they just blasted the NM with two PLD's in a pseudo-zerg.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saevel

SC's lost practicality LONG before Abyssea. They were dieing near the end of COP and going into ToAU. Nobody SC'd after level 70 when everything turned into spampage on deco's in sky or vs demons or vs cockatrices and tigers.

Sky NM was SC based for awhile, but then shells figured they could kill NM's much faster if they just blasted the NM with two PLD's in a pseudo-zerg.

---

That was the start, and it should have been the warning signs- much like the exp system now, the combat system has significant flaws that it's "marquee feature" of SC/MB is generally ignored in favor of spamming DPS...because spamming DPS is more effective and efficient.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

Only if the disagree is about the term lazy as people did not get lazier, they got too impatient to use them.

---

To be honest, as much as I liked them, the incentive was minimal -- if they want people to do SC+MB they need to greatly increase the bonus damage received for the chain and intensify the effects of bursts. Maybe have them generate positive buffs that can stack over time based on the number of skill chains done within a decent window of time (15 minutes?) and decay over time. Then pair that with decent bonus damage and people would start doing them a lot more.

Right now there's no real reason to coordinate that much aside from nostalgia.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rustic

That was the start, and it should have been the warning signs- much like the exp system now, the combat system has significant flaws that it's "marquee feature" of SC/MB is generally ignored in favor of spamming DPS...because spamming DPS is more effective and efficient.

---

SC's were moving out of the door before CoP even came out. They were honestly barely used even when I was first learning them back in 2003 -- it was mostly the Japanese players perpetuating their use and even when they came up the additional damage in areas like Yhoator Jungle and the like was "meh" worthy. They just seemed new and excited because most NA's were still learning the game back then.

Well we could make them "required" by having the NM do a 9,999 damage aoe move if you WS and it doesn't form a SC.

There problem "fixed" .........

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saevel

Well we could make them "required" by having the NM do a 9,999 damage aoe move if you WS and it doesn't form a SC.

There problem "fixed" .........

---

Murdering the entire area for a whiffed SC is a mite overkill.

Making it harder if you spam WS's to kill the mob, however? I got no problems with that. SC/MB being back in the picture as an anti-zerg measure works by me, since it helps to neutralize the typical DPS race most big content has become.