[dev1049] Petition - Make entropy stronger

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Originally Posted by Saiken253

(in my case, regulars for at least 4k seeing as my guillotine's do 3.8 normally).

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Even with SE up Guillotine is not doing 3.8k normally.

Entropy is pretty useless, they should give it an attack boost.

then my parser must be broken~ and i rarely use SE. usually only when i know i won't take hate/will survive retribution from my target, which is rare indeed when using SE lol... makes me sad really.

Thinking about it. I am overjoyed at the amount of power Great Sword has finally recieved. I think the potency of Entropy could use a bonus. It's sad that our level 60 ws outshine our level 75 and 80 ws. Raging Rush does so much damage. Crit or Not. It shouldn't out do others. That's for warriors. For Drk's It's hard. Guillotine is so... So so old. If they Alone changed the Mod to Str for Entropy I think you'd see a much larger damage boon. I think 8 hits is an interesting idea. That actually completes solidfys GS and Scythe as seperate weapons that have they're own uses. I don't want Entropy to not Drain MP though. I think gaining MP from a WS is something that we should get. Catastrophe Drains HP.

To some what organize my thoughts.
A. 4hits:
Scythe has been hitting 4times for our supposed power weaponskills for way to long. With Quietus being a different option for mobs that have high defense. A multi-hit ws that was more then 4hits would be very very nice.
B. Back before the empyrean and mythic periods the competitions for weaponskills on drks were Spinning Slash and Guillotine. Guillotine was better when you used SE and could deal massive quantities of damage. Spinning Slash was consistant. It could do consistant high numbers against mobs regardless of they're level and strength. The fact that Insurgency has been so weak is saddening.
C. I like Entropy. It's a fun ws. I think the most direct solution would be to make it a Strength modifier. Scythe Skill was associated with Strength back in Sea. Why can't Gsword and Scythe both be strength. Since drk's have some of the highest strength scores in the game naturally.
D. I like the idea's of seen about Drk getting Noir and Noir II or whatever you wish to call them. Personally I think drk should have less elemental magic and better smarter Dark magic. Personally Lets make Dark Knight a Unique Spell caster. We're the only ones that get stat drains. We get to absorb buffs now. Wish it wasn't once every minute. The Abs should beable to last for a decent amount of time. Drain II and Dread Spikes shouldn't take so damn long to recast. Why can't a Drk have Drain III? Aspir III? a couple other Dark based Nukes that aren't stupid to cast for damage like Impact.
E. How to?: First. Don't Change Resolution more then you're going to as it's written. It sounds like it's going to be interesting. Entropy SHOULD have a strength mod. Not Int. All Drk ws besides elemental ones are STR/mnd or STR/int. Taking Strength out makes it weak. If you have to sacrifice the MP drain effect some thats fine. I think it should drain a consistent amount based on the damage dealt. Like 1mp for every 10pts of damage. If you make it 8hits. It also puts Drks in a place they used to be. We can't use any of the gear that gives us Boosted critical damage. Not for ws. That Trait only helps us if we /thf and use Gsword for Torcleaver. Give Drk some new spells that deal damage. Noir and Noir II are what i'll call them but whatever you want to give them. And a Drain III and Aspir III. As a Drk we have the best Dark Magic Skill in the game. And yet our Dark Magic is Subpar. Please Adjust the Recast times to Drain II and Dread Spikes, Aspir II and our abs. A fight that isn't a boss fight lasts for 45 seconds. I'd like to beable to abs strength and vit and not have to wait for the next mob to hit it. I'd also like to have have to recast on the next mob because my buff only lasts about 45 seconds even with capped skill.

I know I've said alot. I know it's also jumbled. When it comes down to it I've always looked at dark as having two sides. The SCythe side and the Gsword side. Don't make one obsolete. Make Dark Knights unique. Make them the power houses that they are. and a side note. Even with a 157dmg Apoc an 8Hit ws isn't going to be as devastating as some would think. Mods that make each hit totaled together comparible to Torcleaver say 5.5-5.75 As it is Resolution is comparible to Torcleaver against mobs that don't have huge amounts of Defense. It's really only fair that a Scythe should too.

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Originally Posted by Taint2

Even with SE up Guillotine is not doing 3.8k normally.

Entropy is pretty useless, they should give it an attack boost.

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In abyssea it will.

w/ 4k hp a 4 hit guillotine will have WS DMG + 2k Se DMG (2500 5 hit, 3000 6 hit)
u can get near 8k hp with the right atmas meaning you can get 5k-6k guillotines (if ya wanna be a total gimp when Souleater isn't up)

Tho saying all this w/e Guillotine does in abyssea Rampage beats it allowing the max 8 hit

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

In abyssea it will.

w/ 4k hp a 4 hit guillotine will have WS DMG + 2k Se DMG (2500 5 hit, 3000 6 hit)
u can get near 8k hp with the right atmas meaning you can get 5k-6k guillotines (if ya wanna be a total gimp when Souleater isn't up)

Tho saying all this w/e Guillotine does in abyssea Rampage beats it allowing the max 8 hit

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Lost me at Abyssea.....and even when I was dumb enough to bring my DRK to Abyssea it wasn't averaging 3.8k with perfect gear and atma.

Then I must have better gear than you or something =\ not trying to pick a fight, but i'm just defending my words and just wanting to say that I'm not lying.

Regardless of this, back on topic

Please make entropy stronger... It shouldn't be doing less than what I do with Guillotine. It's a lvl96(though probably won't attain until 99) weaponskill. It had better be stronger than just about every WS of it's type >:(

axe/ridill in abyssea obviously

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Originally Posted by Saiken253

Then I must have better gear than you or something =\ not trying to pick a fight, but i'm just defending my words and just wanting to say that I'm not lying.

Regardless of this, back on topic

Please make entropy stronger... It shouldn't be doing less than what I do with Guillotine. It's a lvl96(though probably won't attain until 99) weaponskill. It had better be stronger than just about every WS of it's type >:(

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You don't have better gear then me. You just like to exagerate and eyeball damage.

no i do have a parser ^^ Maybe i'm luckier than you as well in the melee dept. Regardless i'm done debating this it's pointless.

The point IS though that entropy needs to get stronger and many of the other merits WSs(because Tanaka is back and wants to break our knees haha!.... T-T). But with reading from other threads, they all got weaker... What a backwards company. I personally think it's pride on Tanaka's part that he wants the stuff that was purely his to be the best.

Yay pride! The inhibitor to sensibility and progress!

I can believe 3.8k average on fodder inside.




with SE up

To average 3.8k you'd need to be rolling with Griffon's Claw/Alpha + Omega/Apocalypse against mobs who took additional damage imo.

[QUOTE=Neisan_Quetz;243153]I can believe 3.8k average on fodder inside.




Yes on fodder or NM spawned adds(if i it is actually better to use my scythe instead of cala on an NM, which would be things that have stupid high phys def/resistance so Tscythe makes their def not a factor, which is rare indeed). It's not hard. but again, this is not the point of this thread.

No, VV/RR/apoc for the most part(cause atma selections suck for DRK in general). Sometimes I swap out either VV or apoc with GC depending on situations or if i want something different that gives very similar, if not, exact results.

Saiken just as a fyi you'd be LUCKY to average 3k with guillotine inside of abyssea

i'm not saying this as my DRK or based on what others have said i say this based on the maths.

w/ say a 400 Stat mod + twilight scythe w/ av 5 hit guillotine you will average (if attack is maxed) around 2.4k so there is no way you average 3.8k (without SE)
unless you know something about guillotine that the 100s of people tested it, didn't know.

Basically guillotine sux w/ it's 25% mod and non critness

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Originally Posted by Soidisant

To average 3.8k you'd need to be rolling with Griffon's Claw/Alpha + Omega/Apocalypse against mobs who took additional damage imo.

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even then i'm not sure that you could "average" that high

Only thing I don't like about this WS is that it's Modded by INT, but I guess it gives ppl a reason to actually wear the AF3 now, Anywho's to inser the rest of my 2 cents, I'm not totally disappointed with it, Guillotine doesn't close many WS's and Guillotine don't Return MP and Guillotine doesn't get Stronger with More TP. SO Iguess I'll be happy with this WS.. Only thing Guillotine has over it is that the Mod is STR, but Um Idc Guillotine cant close darkness, I haven't used Guillotine Ever since I got the other 4 Hit wonder.

Also I would Have Rather Scythe get another One hit wonder WS, 4 hit animations are not only long and annoying, but if its like the other multihitters and mod only matters on First hit, there's really no point in equipping INT in the first place. Overal I'm Happy tho, no more Running out of MP *yay* oh ya and now Scythe can make Darkness by myself.

I'm fine with it.

that's fine that it can make Darkness and all. but if you have a TEAM MATE in this TEAM BASED game, you could easily make Darkness with Crossreaper(which will do more damage than Entropy). The second problem is, you really don't need all that MP back that Entropy gives you. DRK doesn't have any spells worth using~(because, as stated by others, casting spells seriously hurts your DPS). I hear, however, that SE might be giving us DRKs Darkness 1 and 2(Holy counterparts). Yet again, in this team based game and with all the refresh gear that you can get for drk, I still won't be running out of MP any time soon(as an elvaan). I might put 1 merit into it and be 4/5 of Shoha(because Shoha at 4/5 is still a godly WS) or another WS, just for the MP recovery in case the Darkness spells are any good(but knowing SE they're going to be absolute crap).

when you pt gonna wipe to an OP move stuns worth casting...
When ur missing alot Absorb ACC is worth casting...
Absorb TP is worth Casting even if you are at the haste cap, cause um it hinder TP moves from mobs, maybe not so good when low on HP but when mobs are storing TP to WS early fight its a pretty good idea.
If your dying Drain is worth casting, same with Drain 2...
If the mob is buffed Absorb Attri is worth casting..
I find alot of spells worth casting. Honestly if you worried about 'not' casting and your 'DPS' so much I don't even understand why you chose to play DRK in the first place... go play Warrior or Monk?

How can u honestly expect to have a job that does more/equal DPS then other Melee jobs and has the Ability to basically debuff/stun a mob indirectly.

I can agree it would be nicer if they lowered Dark Magic cast time for DRK and made a DRK MAGIC that actually does some DAMAGE rather then forcing us to use weak elemental magic. but other than that if you don't wanna cast on DRK go play Warrior plz.

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Originally Posted by Zemarin

when you pt gonna wipe to an OP move stuns worth casting...
When ur missing alot Absorb ACC is worth casting...
Absorb TP is worth Casting even if you are at the haste cap, cause um it hinder TP moves from mobs, maybe not so good when low on HP but when mobs are storing TP to WS early fight its a pretty good idea.
If your dying Drain is worth casting, same with Drain 2...
If the mob is buffed Absorb Attri is worth casting..
I find alot of spells worth casting. Honestly if you worried about 'not' casting and your 'DPS' so much I don't even understand why you chose to play DRK in the first place... go play Warrior or Monk?

How can u honestly expect to have a job that does more/equal DPS then other Melee jobs and has the Ability to basically debuff/stun a mob indirectly.

I can agree it would be nicer if they lowered Dark Magic cast time for DRK and made a DRK MAGIC that actually does some DAMAGE rather then forcing us to use weak elemental magic. but other than that if you don't wanna cast on DRK go play Warrior plz.

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Sure you can play DRK like that, or you can play it correctly. Its your 15bucks....

Then what makes it even MORE retarded about ppl QQING about DRK is that GREAT SWORD Actually brings DRK damage back up... so its not even QQing about the lack of DPS on DRK its drk's QQing cause they can't use SCYTHE to play like Warriors. So stupid.. whole drk thread is stupid.. if you hate drk so much just quit it.

Unlike Most DD's Drk's have options and utility... and if you don't wanna Cast on a Job that has MP... why would you even bother playing it? It's not hard to understand that Drk's augment their melee potential thru magic rather than Job abilities.

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Originally Posted by Zemarin

Then what makes it even MORE retarded about ppl QQING about DRK is that GREAT SWORD Actually brings DRK damage back up... so its not even QQing about the lack of DPS on DRK its drk's QQing cause they can't use SCYTHE to play like Warriors. So stupid.. whole drk thread is stupid.. if you hate drk so much just quit it.

Unlike Most DD's Drk's have options and utility... and if you don't wanna Cast on a Job that has MP... why would you even bother playing it? It's not hard to understand that Drk's augment their melee potential thru magic rather than Job abilities.

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Oh I've been saying that for a while now.
Some of the people in here are so arrogant and think they know "the correct" way to play it then go cry about the job being broken in some aspects like the magical side and doing anything but "WS - Hit fast - WS".

Guess what, you can't say there is a correct way to play something that's broken that doesn't make sense.
You can say that the physical side of drk was much stronger then the magical side and so in true playerbase mentality the best way it was applyed was tru the haste zerg 2hr hit spam, and it was so good now they won't accept anything else unless it takes them back to that.

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Originally Posted by Zemarin

Then what makes it even MORE retarded about ppl QQING about DRK is that GREAT SWORD Actually brings DRK damage back up... so its not even QQing about the lack of DPS on DRK its drk's QQing cause they can't use SCYTHE to play like Warriors. So stupid.. whole drk thread is stupid.. if you hate drk so much just quit it.

Unlike Most DD's Drk's have options and utility... and if you don't wanna Cast on a Job that has MP... why would you even bother playing it? It's not hard to understand that Drk's augment their melee potential thru magic rather than Job abilities.

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wait seriously, what spell does that? I've been trying to find it for years

Absorb STR ~Vit ~ Agi ~ INt - Endark -Absorb Attri can steal Beserk - Absorb Acc Dread Spikes Absorb TP maybe you should try checking ur spell list Or invest in buying these spells.

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Originally Posted by Zemarin

Absorb STR ~Vit ~ Agi ~ INt - Endark -Absorb Attri can steal Beserk - Absorb Acc Dread Spikes Absorb TP maybe you should try checking ur spell list Or invest in buying these spells.

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I can get 100tp in the time it takes to cast any of those spells and I promise you my 4 swings + WS do more damage then the result of any of them.

I'm all for casting, there was plenty of reason to cast spells at 75, now there is none.

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Originally Posted by Rohelius

Oh I've been saying that for a while now.
Some of the people in here are so arrogant and think they know "the correct" way to play it then go cry about the job being broken in some aspects like the magical side and doing anything but "WS - Hit fast - WS".

Guess what, you can't say there is a correct way to play something that's broken that doesn't make sense.
You can say that the physical side of drk was much stronger then the magical side and so in true playerbase mentality the best way it was applyed was tru the haste zerg 2hr hit spam, and it was so good now they won't accept anything else unless it takes them back to that.

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The correct way to play is one that accomplishes the most in the shortest amount of time. Nothing DRK cast besides stun and a prebuff endark does that.

If you were building an alliance and you could pick from one DRK that likes to cast debuffs and drain with mediocure damage, and one that full out DDs for good damage but doesn't bother to ever cast which would you pick?

I don't QQ about DRK, I'll step into any VW fight in a PDT set and tank that sucker while the average DRK melees in twilight for access to RR. The job works fine for me.

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Originally Posted by Taint2

The correct way to play is one that accomplishes the most in the shortest amount of time. Nothing DRK cast besides stun and a prebuff endark does that.

If you were building an alliance and you could pick from one DRK that likes to cast debuffs and drain with mediocure damage, and one that full out DDs for good damage but doesn't bother to ever cast which would you pick?

I don't QQ about DRK, I'll step into any VW fight in a PDT set and tank that sucker while the average DRK melees in twilight for access to RR. The job works fine for me.

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Aparrently not

According to the thread drks are useless... I guess i should get on monk thread and start QQin about monks not having a puppet to follow it around and cure it..

Or pups not having coounter stance.

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Originally Posted by Taint2

If you were building an alliance and you could pick from one DRK that likes to cast debuffs and drain with mediocure damage, and one that full out DDs for good damage but doesn't bother to ever cast which would you pick?

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I do not have a "He sucks" list.
I do not go around telling people how to play their jobs in-game, i do however relay strategies and tactics to make it clear to anyone when its okay to back off and cast and when to zerg.
I thought that was how this game worked team work and communication, not "lol u suck /kickmember"

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Originally Posted by Taint2

/facepalm

If it takes a relic to make the job work there might be something wrong.

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Judging by this you think DRK with no relic doesn't work, so that gives me some insight as to why you say DRK is broken but you are happy with what it can do for you. basically no relic = your doing it wrong so that hypothetical
scenario i just answered falls on def ears :/

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Originally Posted by Taint2

I don't QQ about DRK, I'll step into any VW fight in a PDT set and tank that sucker while the average DRK melees in twilight for access to RR. The job works fine for me.

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Your tanking in tanking gear that means your precious DPS goes out the window!? sacrilegious according to all the Xhit or gtfo threads.
I fully agree with the argument that DRK can do more then just xhit WS spam you apparently know this, but just because relic makes it better doesn't mean that no relic automatically makes it suck.

@zemarin: I cast many of the absorb spells(mostly TP for WS and semi-restricting the mob's moves, VIT to slightly increase dmg, STR for the not Torcleaver WS, Attri for the obvious, ACC and DEX for the obvious) but other than attri and TP, they aren't really worth much casting. I wish they made a bigger impact on the fight so that they would be more useful. and yes, a DRK that can't stun is a lousy DRK.

I chose DRK for the fact that it was a warrior that had magic. However, SE's implementation of this was terribly constructed. They need to take a look at DnD Player's Handbook II(3.5 Edition) and look up the class Duskblade. That is precisely how DRK should work(it is even very DRK itself! has a spell that sacrifices HP for more DMG/swing!)

I don't hate drk. It's my absolute favorite job. always has been. however, when +90% of it's spells are useless and it's DPS is outshone greatly by other DDs that it used to be very competitive with, it's very saddening for me. Especially with Tachi: Godmode(Shoha) that's making Masamune useless(has been tested by a LS mate with masa and says Kikugosaku with a 4hit build greatly out damages Masamune/Fudo[4k+ normals 7k+ highs at 100tp; yeah Tanaka is definitely showing which jobs he loves and hates right now]).

As for me, I have to have to either have 200tp or use SE to hit those #s on Resolution, which is not fair imo with the fact that SAM can just pop those out every few seconds and have no drawback. I digress though, because again Tanaka is back and he is gay for sam and a raging troll against SMN DRK and all those other neglected/rejected/abused jobs.

BALANCE!

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I don't QQ about DRK, I'll step into any VW fight in a PDT set and tank that sucker while the average DRK melees in twilight for access to RR (because they don't have apocalypse). The job works fine for me.

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Had to add something .

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Originally Posted by Rohelius

I do not have a "He sucks" list.
I do not go around telling people how to play their jobs in-game, i do however relay strategies and tactics to make it clear to anyone when its okay to back off and cast and when to zerg.
I thought that was how this game worked team work and communication, not "lol u suck /kickmember"



Judging by this you think DRK with no relic doesn't work, so that gives me some insight as to why you say DRK is broken but you are happy with what it can do for you. basically no relic = your doing it wrong so that hypothetical
scenario i just answered falls on def ears :/


Your tanking in tanking gear that means your precious DPS goes out the window!? sacrilegious according to all the Xhit or gtfo threads.
I fully agree with the argument that DRK can do more then just xhit WS spam you apparently know this, but just because relic makes it better doesn't mean that no relic automatically makes it suck.

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I do keep track of players that suck and those that dont, its important esp now with VW being the focus.

I never once mentioned you need an Apoc, it does help, but I tank just fine using Caladborg when GS is a proc. Keeping hate and proper support are what makes a DRK tank work.

Ofcourse I tank in tank gear. I also have a proper xhit and DD gear for when I'm trying to regain hate or when temps are up.

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Originally Posted by Saiken253

@zemarin: I cast many of the absorb spells(mostly TP for WS and semi-restricting the mob's moves, VIT to slightly increase dmg, STR for the not Torcleaver WS, Attri for the obvious, ACC and DEX for the obvious) but other than attri and TP, they aren't really worth much casting. I wish they made a bigger impact on the fight so that they would be more useful. and yes, a DRK that can't stun is a lousy DRK.

I chose DRK for the fact that it was a warrior that had magic. However, SE's implementation of this was terribly constructed. They need to take a look at DnD Player's Handbook II(3.5 Edition) and look up the class Duskblade. That is precisely how DRK should work(it is even very DRK itself! has a spell that sacrifices HP for more DMG/swing!)

I don't hate drk. It's my absolute favorite job. always has been. however, when +90% of it's spells are useless and it's DPS is outshone greatly by other DDs that it used to be very competitive with, it's very saddening for me. Especially with Tachi: Godmode(Shoha) that's making Masamune useless(has been tested by a LS mate with masa and says Kikugosaku with a 4hit build greatly out damages Masamune/Fudo[4k+ normals 7k+ highs at 100tp; yeah Tanaka is definitely showing which jobs he loves and hates right now]).

As for me, I have to have to either have 200tp or use SE to hit those #s on Resolution, which is not fair imo with the fact that SAM can just pop those out every few seconds and have no drawback. I digress though, because again Tanaka is back and he is gay for sam and a raging troll against SMN DRK and all those other neglected/rejected/abused jobs.

BALANCE!

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Your problem is not understanding Each DPS excell and blow at different things. For you balance is DRK being able to kill everything in game like a WAr can on Trash mobs. Even tho 2handed weps was made to be better in the long run the same rule applies as it did back in the HNM days where some jobs are better at end game things awhile others are better at trash/gimmicky things. I find it hard to believe anything with a grain of Defense a monk/sam/drg can out damage a drk on. DRK isn't being Gipped, although some of the Job Abilities like Occult Accumen do benefit blms and sch more. For the most part anything beyond it has been good for drk.

I don't Agree with forcing DRKs to use elemental magic at all and don't understand why their enfeebling magics are so low... however I don't believe drk is horrible for not being TOP Dps seeing as a DRK can take alot of heat esp. with the right sub where as most dps get hammered.. also in situations where the mob has very high def/eva u cant really count on blus/mnks/dncs as reliable dmg/stuns.

Also if you can make the argument that Using En-Dark absorb acc or whatever can hurt ur DPS so can using berserk.. u gotta stop ur animation to use and JA as well as magic regardless. Magic spells help u when the situation deems it necessary and sometimes even when not.

Back on topic.. i still dont find anythign wrong with scythe and if u dont like it plz use a great sword.

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Originally Posted by Zemarin

Your problem is not understanding Each DPS excell and blow at different things. For you balance is DRK being able to kill everything in game like a WAr can on Trash mobs. Even tho 2handed weps was made to be better in the long run the same rule applies as it did back in the HNM days where some jobs are better at end game things awhile others are better at trash/gimmicky things. I find it hard to believe anything with a grain of Defense a monk/sam/drg can out damage a drk on. DRK isn't being Gipped, although some of the Job Abilities like Occult Accumen do benefit blms and sch more. For the most part anything beyond it has been good for drk.

I don't Agree with forcing DRKs to use elemental magic at all and don't understand why their enfeebling magics are so low... however I don't believe drk is horrible for not being TOP Dps seeing as a DRK can take alot of heat esp. with the right sub where as most dps get hammered.. also in situations where the mob has very high def/eva u cant really count on blus/mnks/dncs as reliable dmg/stuns.

Also if you can make the argument that Using En-Dark absorb acc or whatever can hurt ur DPS so can using berserk.. u gotta stop ur animation to use and JA as well as magic regardless. Magic spells help u when the situation deems it necessary and sometimes even when not.

Back on topic.. i still dont find anythign wrong with scythe and if u dont like it plz use a great sword.

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Zerk vs a spell?

SAM and MNK not good on high def mobs?

Troll attempt?

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Originally Posted by Taint2

Zerk vs a spell?

SAM and MNK not good on high def mobs?

Troll attempt?

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It's quite obvious anyone who comments "knowing" we are full of shit about dark are the very same people who don't play it enough comparatively speaking. There is absolutely no comparison from dark to most other melee jobs in just how much they lack for melee DPS/WS with buffs. This always ends up "low man groups" but never acknowledging the simple fact the haste is so easy to cap now. That was what made dark in it's own place in the melee department. The fact haste can be capped on so many jobs pretty much ended that.

Indeed. using a JA is much more instantaneous than casting a spell(except for stun, which is roughly the same).

Also, is it wrong to want to do similar damage on an advanced job that is supposed to be the better version of the base job that unlocks DRK? Yes I somewhat have more survivability on DRK than WAR but if you have good enough support(which is what this game is all about) you most likely won't die.

Despite what you think, Scythe desperately needs improvements on all/most of it's WSs. As it stands now, GS does everything scythe does but better(9k Resolutions[high end] says hi). This needs to be rectified, because scythe is my preferred weapon but as things are now a DRK will be viewed as gimp if they use their 1 and only A+ skill, which is their SIGNATURE weapon(in ffxi that is).

Scythe may be an A+ skill, but I don't see how that makes it any more a signature weapon than it does GS. Drks have always been the best wielder of both weapons. I think the very idea of one weapon being superior to the other is a mistake. I mean really, the difference in skill between scythe and GS is what now, 7-8 points? That's negligible on anything. This is not an attack on scythe, this is an attack on the idea that scythe is any more deserving than GS as a drk's weapon of choice.

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Originally Posted by Saiken253

Indeed. using a JA is much more instantaneous than casting a spell(except for stun, which is roughly the same).

Also, is it wrong to want to do similar damage on an advanced job that is supposed to be the better version of the base job that unlocks DRK? Yes I somewhat have more survivability on DRK than WAR but if you have good enough support(which is what this game is all about) you most likely won't die.

Despite what you think, Scythe desperately needs improvements on all/most of it's WSs. As it stands now, GS does everything scythe does but better(9k Resolutions[high end] says hi). This needs to be rectified, because scythe is my preferred weapon but as things are now a DRK will be viewed as gimp if they use their 1 and only A+ skill, which is their SIGNATURE weapon(in ffxi that is).

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Whats the first weapon every DRK gets, do you remember the quest? Its a GS. Thats right the quest to unlock the job starts you off with a GS, and that weapon can be upgraded through another quest. Its funny how many people (myself included) forget this, but that shouldn't be the complete point, after all how many jobs have main weapons in the A- range? The point is that GS and Scythe are DRK signature weapons, and thus increases in both fields are beneficial to the job. Now for years GS has been ignored when it came to a good souleater ws but now that has been corrected, now we just need a decent scythe ws, and personally I think Entropy is fine where its at because it offers great utility for casting spells, but people want raw damage. I have always thought Insurgency needed a buff and by making it crit then that would give scythe something, also Quietus needs a damage boost because it is still quite weak, however entropy seems right on the money, its slightly better than guillotine but gives mp (instead of drains which would be useless on no mp mobs).

Its just silly no matter how one looks at the picture that in order for any dark to compete with other dd classes in THEIR MAIN WEAPON CLASS, they need a relic weapon.

Empyrean is garbage, mythic (idk and boy are mythics alot of work).

In the case of a non-relic drk they need to use a GS and the new merit ws or again use another GS from the empyrean path. This is crazy, why are all scythe ws junk and it's the drk's main weapon? WAR gets a decent mythic, empyrean, relic, and now merited ws for their GA, plus they get access to the new merited GS ws. Really, why play drk without a merit? Its not like the job gets the same WS JA bonuses WAR gets, or even a decent WS for their main weapon. loldrk

If this is gonna be how it is, then give DRK A+ skill in GS and call it what it is, loldrk.

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Originally Posted by Concerned4FFxi

Its just silly no matter how one looks at the picture that in order for any dark to compete with other dd classes in THEIR MAIN WEAPON CLASS, they need a relic weapon.

Empyrean is garbage, mythic (idk and boy are mythics alot of work).

In the case of a non-relic drk they need to use a GS and the new merit ws or again use another GS from the empyrean path. This is crazy, why are all scythe ws junk and it's the drk's main weapon? WAR gets a decent mythic, empyrean, relic, and now merited ws for their GA, plus they get access to the new merited GS ws. Really, why play drk without a merit? Its not like the job gets the same WS JA bonuses WAR gets, or even a decent WS for their main weapon. loldrk

If this is gonna be how it is, then give DRK A+ skill in GS and call it what it is, loldrk.

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Say what you will. I use GS and my dark performs exceedingly well. Drk done right is not by any means "lol". This is more than likely your own personal experience with your own personal drk. And as mentioned before, the difference between A- and A+ skill is about 7 points. This isn't going to make any noticable difference on anything.

I also explained before the reason why GS gets better WS's than Scythe. Name any single other way in which GS is stronger than scythe. Base damage, not even close. Ease of TP build? No chance. This is that "balance" thing SE talks about so much. But why complain? Drk is a master of GS and scythe both. War's never been capable of making full use out of the GS and neither has pld. GS is a dark knight's territory. And I keep noting people raising hell that war can use the new GS ws. Guess what? They can use the new scythe ws also. So can bst. Why not raise holy hell about that too?

I always see drks bitching about SE never giving drks anything good, then suddenly they give us a new ws that's pretty awesome, and of total benefit to the drk, and now I see pages and pages of complaints that SE did give us something we can use, but we want something else. And as has been stated by a few people already, Entropy may not be as overwhelmingly powerful as people hoped, but it is an upgrade to guillotine. Nobody seems to be happy with that fact either.

I'm not against either weapon, I'm pro both. But that doesn't mean I demand both to be super powerful, just means I'll be happy with the strongest of either category. If tomorrow scythe suddenly shot out ahead, I'd prolly start using it. But for now I'm happy and content with GS as my weapon of choice.

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Originally Posted by Zemarin

Your problem is not understanding Each DPS excell and blow at different things. For you balance is DRK being able to kill everything in game like a WAr can on Trash mobs. Even tho 2handed weps was made to be better in the long run the same rule applies as it did back in the HNM days where some jobs are better at end game things awhile others are better at trash/gimmicky things. I find it hard to believe anything with a grain of Defense a monk/sam/drg can out damage a drk on. DRK isn't being Gipped, although some of the Job Abilities like Occult Accumen do benefit blms and sch more. For the most part anything beyond it has been good for drk.

I don't Agree with forcing DRKs to use elemental magic at all and don't understand why their enfeebling magics are so low... however I don't believe drk is horrible for not being TOP Dps seeing as a DRK can take alot of heat esp. with the right sub where as most dps get hammered.. also in situations where the mob has very high def/eva u cant really count on blus/mnks/dncs as reliable dmg/stuns.

Also if you can make the argument that Using En-Dark absorb acc or whatever can hurt ur DPS so can using berserk.. u gotta stop ur animation to use and JA as well as magic regardless. Magic spells help u when the situation deems it necessary and sometimes even when not.

Back on topic.. i still dont find anythign wrong with scythe and if u dont like it plz use a great sword.

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you can't be serious, it literally has to be impossible to be this blind.

@Stingray104

I agree with you on the point that neither GS nor scythe should be stronger than the other. I wan them to both be equivalent in damage and utility. before, GS and scythe were the utility weapons(with different effects) with sleep and paralysis being on GS and Scythe has blind and silence. Why force scythe to then be super utility and then GS be super damage? why not they be equal?

I know what people will say, them being equal is stupid, but please stop being ignorant. Them being equal would allow DRKs to play exactly the way they want to play and not be laughed at for not using GS(now) or Scythe(then). I want to be able to use either and have that kind of variety in my favorite melee job.

Making either GS or Scythe superior to the other is just unfair to us DRKs.