[dev100x] Relic & Mythic Weapon Adjustments

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

I've no issue w/ anything being buffed. If that's what they want to do, then so be it. My issue is w/ relic owner's sense of entitlement, like SE owes them something, lol.

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Are you kidding??? this thread been so much shorter if it was not for this nonsense.

I never said I was entitled to anything I never said I should do 40% damage and you 20% because I have a relic. I just don’t like what the opposing stance is, "you should get crap oned because you are suck up and RMT for your weapon" "new = better so relic needs to be outdated." Such things seem really shallow to me and I do not make sense of it.

Some relics really suck, some mythics really suck. Like I have said many times now people are only speaking out on that fact now that emps exist.
Since SE shown ignore to mythics I find the need to speak out and say “Hey it is time to fix this”

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Originally Posted by InfamousDS

I finally figured out a solution that will please everybody. SE should release Aliment Weapons, you get one of every type as soon as you log-on, 2 if they are 1-hand weapons. There would also be a shield involved. All weapons are all jobs @ level1, and have every WS for that weapon class. DMG is Level*3, CritRate +50%, CritDamage +100%, All stats +100. Then everything we're talking about would be completely irrelevant.

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So mages are still crap on -.- yay

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I never said I was entitled to anything

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You specifically, no, but it was a general statement, not one specifically to you. Go look at all the other fix relic threads. They definitely have a sense of entitlement issue.

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

You specifically, no, but it was a general statement, not one specifically to you. Go look at all the other fix relic threads. They definitely have a sense of entitlement issue.

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Real Life Comparison:

You spend 6 years saving up to buy a nice house. It is a lot of work, but you are happy with your decision. Your look at your neighbor's home, and decide to start a conversation because it is larger and is aesthetically nicer. You assume they have worked longer than you, and thus have also earned it. When speaking with them, you learn that you are relatives, and they were left the house in a will for an uncle you both knew quite well (despite never seeing each other). Would you not feel the least bit entitled to the nicer home, considering the relative did almost nothing compared to you?

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Originally Posted by InfamousDS

Real Life Comparison:

You spend 6 years saving up to buy a nice house. It is a lot of work, but you are happy with your decision. Your look at your neighbor's home, and decide to start a conversation because it is larger and is aesthetically nicer. You assume they have worked longer than you, and thus have also earned it. When speaking with them, you learn that you are relatives, and they were left the house in a will for an uncle you both knew quite well (despite never seeing each other). Would you not feel the least bit entitled to the nicer home, considering the relative did almost nothing compared to you?

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Not at all. And any real life compairison to justify a digital one is a bad example.

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Originally Posted by InfamousDS

Real Life Comparison:

You spend 6 years saving up to buy a nice house. It is a lot of work, but you are happy with your decision. Your look at your neighbor's home, and decide to start a conversation because it is larger and is aesthetically nicer. You assume they have worked longer than you, and thus have also earned it. When speaking with them, you learn that you are relatives, and they were left the house in a will for an uncle you both knew quite well (despite never seeing each other). Would you not feel the least bit entitled to the nicer home, considering the relative did almost nothing compared to you?

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Not at all. Why would I care that someone got their house willed to them? That has 0 to do with me. If I wasn't such an Ahole, maybe my uncle would have left me something, but I'm not in any way shape or form entitled to him leaving me something.

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

You specifically, no, but it was a general statement, not one specifically to you. Go look at all the other fix relic threads. They definitely have a sense of entitlement issue.

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and the opposing side has more of the rest of my post you replayed to.

both sides are getting a bit obnoxious i guess.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

Not at all. And any real life compairison to justify a digital one is a bad example.

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like the car one you did to me?

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

A valient effort Dew but his ears are def to opinions in conflict of his own. He's lost his old trophy to new toys and is scrambling to keep up to the sport car with his station wagon.

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Originally Posted by InfamousDS

Real Life Comparison:

You spend 6 years saving up to buy a nice house. It is a lot of work, but you are happy with your decision. Your look at your neighbor's home, and decide to start a conversation because it is larger and is aesthetically nicer. You assume they have worked longer than you, and thus have also earned it. When speaking with them, you learn that you are relatives, and they were left the house in a will for an uncle you both knew quite well (despite never seeing each other). Would you not feel the least bit entitled to the nicer home, considering the relative did almost nothing compared to you?

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Hmmm... but I was just told....

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Originally Posted by Rambus

FFIX=/= RL

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I don't know what to believe anymore!

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

Not at all. And any real life compairison to justify a digital one is a bad example.

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Funny thing about human emotion, it isn't bound by programming code. Why wouldn't you feel entitled? You knew the uncle very well, and for the sake of argument, they spent less time with him. You essentially wasted 6 years, when you could have had one for nearly nothing like the relative.

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Originally Posted by InfamousDS

Funny thing about human emotion, it isn't bound by programming code. Why wouldn't you feel entitled? You knew the uncle very well, and for the sake of argument, they spent less time with him. You essentially wasted 6 years, when you could have had one for nearly nothing like the relative.

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You're claiming I should just sit around and wait for to drop into my lap out of some sense of self entitlement.
It's that same sense self entitlement that lead to this thread's creation.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

You're claiming I should just sit around and wait for to drop into my lap out of some sense of self entitlement.
It's that same sense self entitlement that lead to this thread's creation.

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No, its that same sense of anger and betrayal that started this thread. You loved your uncle, and this other relative you've never met is given something your uncle knew you were saving to get. He could have left it to you, but instead he allowed you to spend all that time and energy going into something that is now actually less.

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Originally Posted by InfamousDS

No, its that same sense of anger and betrayal that started this thread. You loved your uncle, and this other relative you've never met is given something your uncle knew you were saving to get. He could have left it to you, but instead he allowed you to spend all that time and energy going into something that is now actually less.

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That's still misguided self entitlement.

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Originally Posted by InfamousDS

No, its that same sense of anger and betrayal that started this thread. You loved your uncle, and this other relative you've never met is given something your uncle knew you were saving to get. He could have left it to you, but instead he allowed you to spend all that time and energy going into something that is now actually less.

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And, mayeb the uncle know you were better off. Maybe your cousin is too stupid to do thing for themself and needed all the help they could get.(No, that's not a game analogy. It's a realistic view of the situation you put forth.)

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Originally Posted by InfamousDS

No, its that same sense of anger and betrayal that started this thread. You loved your uncle, and this other relative you've never met is given something your uncle knew you were saving to get. He could have left it to you, but instead he allowed you to spend all that time and energy going into something that is now actually less.

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That's entitlement, buddy. There's nothing that says he has to give you anything at all.

You only see it as negative because it suits your argument.

The Uncle is, of course, SE. The relative is, oh lets say Cream because they are readily available example. You are the relic owner. The only investment they have made is time. That's it. You have spent 6 years making and saving for your relic, and they spent 2 weeks making an Empyrean at no cost.

I don't own one, but I'm willing to take the banner of their side because no matter how you explain it away the fact remains: They got more for less, and I at least deserve the money I've spent since I can't get the time back. The actual least they could do is make Empyreans harder or relics more effective in Abyssea. The scales are not balanced. It may be entitlement, but it is righteous entitlement and not as self-serving as you are trying to say. If Empyreans were even CLOSE to the challenge of relics, then the fact they are better would be well-deserved. But they aren't, and so Empyreans are now owned by every jerk-off with an excess of 2 friends, a LS, or enough patience to shout. Which, btw, you can't do even with the dynamis adjustments more than once every day.

I never said the words "Self serving". I send "sense of entitlement" which is 100% correct. Thank you for clearing that up.

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Originally Posted by InfamousDS

You only see it as negative because it suits your argument.

The Uncle is, of course, SE. The relative is, oh lets say Cream because they are readily available example. You are the relic owner. The only investment they have made is time. That's it. You have spent 6 years making and saving for your relic, and they spent 2 weeks making an Empyrean at no cost.

I don't own one, but I'm willing to take the banner of their side because no matter how you explain it away the fact remains: They got more for less, and I at least deserve the money I've spent since I can't get the time back. The actual least they could do is make Empyreans harder or relics more effective in Abyssea. The scales are not balanced. It may be entitlement, but it is righteous entitlement and not as self-serving as you are trying to say. If Empyreans were even CLOSE to the challenge of relics, then the fact they are better would be well-deserved. But they aren't, and so Empyreans are now owned by every jerk-off with an excess of 2 friends, a LS, or enough patience to shout. Which, btw, you can't do even with the dynamis adjustments more than once every day.

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You gone from a self imposed sense of entitlement to just plain greed. Trying to keep what you achieved for yourself all the while feeling self pitty because some one else achieved the same thing earlier.

I wasn't saying they aren't entitled. In fact, I was saying they were and using a very real example. You can say you wouldn't resent the relative, but unless you a soulless drone, you will feel avarice, anger, resentment, and even entitlement. You will hate the relative and forget everything you loved about your uncle for some time. You will complain to friends and family, and investigate why it wasn't you. This is how people react when they aren't grief-stricken, and while I never outright said it, you knew the uncle had died and had even went to the funeral (the relative didn't of course, you had never met). I took the time to include grieving into the story, you assumed it was recent.

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Originally Posted by InfamousDS

You can say you wouldn't resent the relative, but unless you a soulless drone, you will feel avarice, anger, resentment, and even entitlement. You will hate the relative and forget everything you loved about your uncle for some time. You will complain to friends and family, and investigate why it wasn't you. This is how people react when they aren't grief-stricken, and while I never outright said it, you knew the uncle had died and had even went to the funeral (the relative didn't of course, you had never met). I took the time to include grieving into the story, you assumed it was recent.

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That's nothing but plain old greed. And makes the one seeking entitlement a bad person.

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You can say you wouldn't resent the relative, but unless you a soulless drone, you will feel avarice, anger, resentment, and even entitlement. You will hate the relative and forget everything you loved about your uncle for some time. You will complain to friends and family, and investigate why it wasn't you.

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Maybe that's what you would do. I'd do nothing of the sort. If he leaves me something, great. If not, oh well. I'm not that crazy over things that never belonged to me to begin with, lol.

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I took the time to include grieving into the story, you assumed it was recent.

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I didn't assume anything. Who ever said anything about grieving. It'd still make no difference.

I'm a low maintenance person, I don't need shit from other people when they die. Getting mad because someone didn't leave you something just makes you a selfish ahole, lol (which is probably why they didn't leave you anything to begin with)

The trial from 85-90 relic takes 2 1/2 weeks MIN. You can do 3-4 emp in that time. So SE fix the relics and Mythics.

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Originally Posted by Unctgtg

The trial from 85-90 relic takes 2 1/2 weeks MIN. You can do 3-4 emp in that time. So SE fix the relics and Mythics.

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So your request is to leave them as is, trials included, but to lower the trial requirments. That I can support.

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Originally Posted by InfamousDS

You only see it as negative because it suits your argument.

The Uncle is, of course, SE. The relative is, oh lets say Cream because they are readily available example. You are the relic owner. The only investment they have made is time. That's it. You have spent 6 years making and saving for your relic, and they spent 2 weeks making an Empyrean at no cost.

I don't own one, but I'm willing to take the banner of their side because no matter how you explain it away the fact remains: They got more for less, and I at least deserve the money I've spent since I can't get the time back. The actual least they could do is make Empyreans harder or relics more effective in Abyssea. The scales are not balanced. It may be entitlement, but it is righteous entitlement and not as self-serving as you are trying to say. If Empyreans were even CLOSE to the challenge of relics, then the fact they are better would be well-deserved. But they aren't, and so Empyreans are now owned by every jerk-off with an excess of 2 friends, a LS, or enough patience to shout. Which, btw, you can't do even with the dynamis adjustments more than once every day.

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Wow, I can't believe I read 14 pages of this going back and forth...

First let me state I own none of the 3 that's mention in the thread (relic, mystic, emp). I have 8 jobs to 90 now, and all was leveled to 75 before level cap, so don't start assuming/accusing me of "that new player that knows no hard work" talk.. I did not level any more new job to 90 since abyssea neither...

I was going to reply after reading what everyone has to say, and if someone already said what I was going to say, I'm just gonna not post at all, but up until your post.. i couldn't help myself but say this:

Something that took more time and effort pre-abyssea time should be of better value to the player? BS to it's core.. it's like saying.. "I spent 5 years in a HNM LS camping everyday for 3 hours for a HNM and waited in lines for all that time to get my XXXX (be it a.body, ridill, n.body, e.body, etc,etc), that XXXX needs to be the top notch piece of gear compare to the easy to get AF3+1, Irongiant gear, etc, etc" (yes I'm saying only +1 b/c they are even easier to get) What kind of argument is that?!

SE already admitted failure in how the original game design was bad and wanted to make a big chance for the better (time grinding on HNM for example), they make quite a few change w/ HNM, but never ever able to simply b/c those are still the considerable "best" piece you can get in game, so in the end, Abyssea came in along w/ the level increase, finally marks the sunset of a problem that EVERYONE, new and old players alike, has complained over many years. Now my question is, why the hack would people keep referring "oh that's how SE has FFXI worked for the many years we played it" ... "it should be that way still" talk.. this bothers me quite a lot..

Someone keep saying SE never meant to replace old gear pre-abyssea.. seriously? yes, there are plenty of gear that is still useful even @ 90 now-a-day, however, to state that there are nearly none is absurd... Cream_Soda already gave a few example.. enough to kick your claim .. then you come back to say .. "oh not the full set is replaced"... I believe initially you were only asking to name some piece for argument sake.. I'm not (and i'm sure those opposing your statement too) are not going to waste time trying to find the gear that did fully replace an older gear.. b/c yes we all know they exist.

To be honest.. IMO...SE did the trials for relic more than likely knowing that there will be these relic owner that will go crazy if they didn't.. maybe not so much really wanting relic.. an older than older content from the old days to still dominates...

and also while you at it.. it's the same argument over other threads about "oh how unfair of SE".. "SE shouldn't this".. "SE shouldn't that".. dynamis WILL be made easier.. ancient currency will "cost" (gil or effort wise) less.. the nm to upgrade due to level increase has become a TON easier than it is pre-abyssea.. so what's your next complaint? "damn i spend good 2 years to get my relic.. why should ppl be able to get it in 3 months or less.. that's so unfair.. SE should make relic that was obtained pre-abyssea 1-2 tier stronger than those newly obtained".... I can see it coming if not already in ppl's mind or already on forum's thread I didn't read...

5/5 Usukane is not/should not be full time by nin/pup/sam/mnk.

I am sure there is better mix setups for ws ( doono about mnk)

even if mnk can tp and ws in full usu, what about tanking? and so forth..

maybe mnks can full time it but there is a lot of macro gear that uss has not replaced for mnk,nin and guessing pup since there may be pet gear to make it cast more or something? i dont know.

from 2003 to abyssea, there has not been a single piece of gear that i know off of hand that COMPELTEY got replaced.
some of that gear can still be used even now ....

name one....

there is a lot of af, af+1, relic, relic +1, other 70-75 gear that still has not got replaced.

and a level 63 weapon, level 55 belt..
technically you have replaced a set of level 51 weapons but why does it require 20-30 to completely replace those 8? ( though this is talking about past abyssea now)

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5/5 Usukane is not/should not be full time by nin/pup/sam/mnk.

I am sure there is better mix setups for ws ( doono about mnk)

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If you're talking about now, then none of the jobs should use 5/5.

If you're talking about lv 75, 5/5 usu was best for mnk and one of the, if not the best set for pup as well. Sam made use out of body and feet. Nin made use of feet.

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even if mnk can tp and ws in full usu, what about tanking? and so forth..

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Again, if you're talking about 75, full usu also won for tanking, using PDT when (well I really never used it unless counterstance was dispelled)...

Now if you're talking about damage, every piece of usu got replaced for all jobs that could use it with the exception of pup using the legs for ws.

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from 2003 to abyssea, there has not been a single piece of gear that i know off of hand that COMPELTEY got replaced.
some of that gear can still be used even now ....

name one....

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A few pieces of usu still have utility in a lolevasion build, if you're trying to do that, but other than that it's worthless.

Arguments is for 75, since my statement was "SE really did not replace gear pre abyssea" but the thing is what was usu replacing?

I am sure it was the best for ws/tp for pup but pup does other things.

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Originally Posted by Rambus

Arguments is for 75, since my statement was "SE really did not replace gear pre abyssea" but the thing is what was usu replacing?

I am sure it was the best for ws/tp for pup but pup does other things.

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If you're talking about mnk, usu was replacing

Turban/Togi(+1)/Bkote/Byakko's/Fuma. for TP. Usu legs replaced shura haidate+1 until it was replaced by Hachiryu Haidate. Usu shoes replaced w/e the fk mnks used (was limited lol options), until being replaced by af3+1(+2)

If you're talking pup, I had full usu before I lv'd pup, so couldn't tell you there.

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

If you're talking about mnk, usu was replacing

Turban/Togi(+1)/Bkote/Byakko's/Fuma. for TP. Usu legs replaced shura haidate+1 until it was replaced by Hachiryu Haidate. Usu shoes replaced w/e the fk mnks used (was limited lol options), until being replaced by af3+1(+2)

If you're talking pup, I had full usu before I lv'd pup, so couldn't tell you there.

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I was talking more so of relic/ af macros but I can't remember what was first, usu or relic. With byakko's legs is that it was not replaced for SAM and its still isn't. (pretty sure war, bst still used them for tp)

for sam now in regards with Byakko's pants:
with +2 though you have to say your magic capped and not using the STP witch will not be common. Still has a limited use for sam though, to go with my point SE has a hard time replacing gear.

Bkote was still used by rng then and it was still agured if skadi or bkote was best for ws.

turban was not replaced with all jobs, and now holds true till you get +1, or +2 heads for all your jobs.

even then mages dont have haste on thier heads so it can be used in macros and can be used down to puch some recasts down.

It only takes one week to get an empyrean? What have I been doing wrong...

I understand the problem though, I do believe that those weapons should have a similar increase. Though for one handed weapons like sword/club etc i do not feel that one should be able to dual wield these weapons and be overpowered either. I dont feel that they should be (much) better though.

But there are still updates to come in which im sure the relic/mythic will get another update.

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Originally Posted by Rambus

Arguments is for 75, since my statement was "SE really did not replace gear pre abyssea" but the thing is what was usu replacing?

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So you're saying that pre-TAU you didn't use any gear.

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Originally Posted by Penance

It only takes one week to get an empyrean? What have I been doing wrong...

I understand the problem though, I do believe that those weapons should have a similar increase. Though for one handed weapons like sword/club etc i do not feel that one should be able to dual wield these weapons and be overpowered either.

But there are still updates to come in which im sure the relic/mythic will get another update.

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I am worried about some mythics.

I am talking about the ones that where useless at 75 and still useless

Mainly fits the mage ones.

lifting caps at 75 would help pld with Atonement do more damage, so there is more issues then the mythics them selfs.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

So you're saying that pre-TAU you didn't use any gear.

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new macro gear =/= replace.
understand this, and maybe you been missing my point.

WHAT gear that was out in 2003/3004 no longer used before abyssea?
i even listed some gear that is still used today from then.

see my usu comments

I think alot of you have lost the point here SE have said they were doing trials for relics to keep them up to date and relics will be the best weapons available.

Relics are no longer lvl75 weapons as they get trials so stop with the 90 emperiums should be better argument
Emperium wepons should be powerfull in there own right maybe even better than relics in some ways just not by the huge diffrence at the moment. All people wanted to do is say to SE they feel the trials havnt gone far enough.

This is a sugestion forum to SE please treat it as such if you want to argue about things there are plenty of forums which you can do so. Players leave sugestions and SE decide to take action on there points or not.

It isnt in anybodys interest for people to argue about peoples points in every thread the only thing this will achive is SE ignoring these forums as players have turned them into constant arguments instead of the feed back they requested

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Originally Posted by Malacite

Why should weapons from 2004 be on par with gear from 2010?

Dynamis was one of if not the single worst designed end game content in the game, and it's nice to see they're (finally) taking steps towards fixing it, but I still don't see why Relics & Mythics should be equal to Empyreans. Comparable certainly, but we don't need the same old weapons dominating. Enough with the Zilart-era gear.

The fact is SE has already powered up the Relics via the level 90 versions by increasing the WS power. In fact, Amanomurakumo is only just barely second to Masamune because of Masamune's aftermath - Kaiten & Fudo are very close in performance with the 90 version.

Mythics were never meant to be high DPS weapons either. Their intent was to enhance their respective jobs, which some like Yagrush & Kenkonken do exceptionally well.

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Per your interpretation I then don't understand why they WHM cure V and VI, nor any job upgrade after 2004.

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Originally Posted by Humie

I think alot of you have lost the point here SE have said they were doing trials for relics to keep them up to date and relics will be the best weapons available.

Relics are no longer lvl75 weapons as they get trials so stop with the 90 emperiums should be better argument
Emperium wepons should be powerfull in there own right maybe even better than relics in some ways just not by the huge diffrence at the moment. All people wanted to do is say to SE they feel the trials havnt gone far enough.

This is a sugestion forum to SE please treat it as such if you want to argue about things there are plenty of forums which you can do so. Players leave sugestions and SE decide to take action on there points or not.

It isnt in anybodys interest for people to argue about peoples points in every thread the only thing this will achive is SE ignoring these forums as players have turned them into constant arguments instead of the feed back they requested

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They outclass my relic by 5k in WS damage per

in abyssea? ant that a bit overexertion?

what about outside abyssea? i don't see any ws doing 5k unless its on strange damage taken + mobs, lolsavage

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Originally Posted by Rambus

in abyssea? ant that a bit overexertion?

what about outside abyssea? i don't see any ws doing 5k unless its on strange damage taken + mobs, lolsavage

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http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4-18-48-82.jpg
^ My damage

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...pectator-1.png
^ An acquaintance's damage

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...3-13-12-06.jpg
A friend's damage.

How do you not see 5k+ on normal mobs?

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Originally Posted by TearValerin

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4-18-48-82.jpg
^ My damage

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...pectator-1.png
^ An acquaintance's damage

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...3-13-12-06.jpg
A friend's damage.

How do you not see 5k+ on normal mobs?

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normal mob as in NOT ABYSSEA -.- hate abyssea people always think your talking about abyssea only. can't wait for new content so people stop assuming its abyssea talk

and abyssea or out regardless he said 5K more then his ws.

no idea what a Spectator is

and i think your ws is on in abyssea on weak to ppiercing mob (soulds like a bee mob, I dont know that mob).... with mythic 90 right?
thought i saw that SS before talking about 90 mythics

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Originally Posted by Rambus

normal mob as in NOT ABYSSEA -.- hate abyssea people always think your talking about abyssea only. can't wait for new content so people stop assuming its abyssea talk

and abyssea or out regardless he said 5K more then his ws.

no idea what a Spectator is

and i think your ws is on in abyssea on weak to ppiercing mob (soulds like a bee mob, I dont know that mob).... with mythic 90 right?
thought i saw that SS before talking about 90 mythics

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None of those are weak to piercing, even outside, Drakesbane still hits a good 1500-2k. Regardless, really GOOD drg and war CAN do 5k more than alot of relic ws :\.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4-18-48-82.jpg

that is not a bee??? ( I dont know abyssea much sorry)

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Originally Posted by TearValerin

None of those are weak to piercing, even outside, Drakesbane still hits a good 1500-2k. Regardless, really GOOD drg and war CAN do 5k more than alot of relic ws :\.

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where? on what?

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Originally Posted by Rambus

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4-18-48-82.jpg

that is not a bee??? ( I dont know abyssea much sorry)

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Nope, its a dragonfly.

weak to piercing -.-

i bet i can oneshot them too on CA quad on blu

wait that those flys in misareaux? might have a ss of that lol