What own advice? Im not posting ideas to get any kind of feedback. Doesn't mean I dont have a right to tell you I don't like your ideas and why they wont work.
Again, I dont have to come up with an idea, just to tell you yours is a bad one/wont work.
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06-22-2011, 01:44 AMKimble
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06-22-2011, 01:48 AMkingfury-------------Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimble
THIS. You just said it.
"Post a good idea and ill give you a positive remark."
Try it yourself. Any idea. I'm posting suggestions to the DEVs Kimble, not to anyone else. -
06-22-2011, 01:53 AMKimble
In that case King, why even leave your thread open to be discussed? If you ONLY want your ideas to go to the devs and no one else, post it, close the tread and leave it at that. If a Community member would like to respond to it, they can still post in a thread that you closed.
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06-22-2011, 02:01 AMkingfury
Because I don't mind "DISCUSSING" anything with anyone. I realize this is a "General discussion" forum, and I don't mind opposing opinions one bit. It's posters that don't post with a "discussion" tone in the least that lose me. "Looks like it's time to show off this weeks artwork" has nothing to do with the thread I posted Kimble.
My point is that I'm not posting specifically to get feedback from anyone else other than the Devs. All other feedback that's tacked onto a thread post is welcome so long as it's not attempts at tearing down an idea just for the sport of it.
Don't stray away from the last post Kimble. TRY IT for yourself man. -
06-22-2011, 02:05 AMKimble
Try what for my self? I personally dont care to give any idea or suggestions because I don't have any I care about or think its worth the time for the Development team to look at.
Regardless, it doesn't mean I cant voice my displeasure in your idea or agree with others that don't like your idea.
I don't need my own idea to know your ideas are something that can't be done or something that I would have 0 interest in doing if it were added. -
06-22-2011, 02:05 AMMinscI'm plenty mature and respectful to people like my parents, siblings, grandparents, friends, neighbors, teachers, etc...Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
Yeah, kinda doing the same thing yourself there ain't yeah? Don't or won't try and see anything from someone else's point of view so I don't want to talk about it anymore. Instead of responding to what I wrote, you're just done. My 5 year old kids play this same game with me...Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
"It was funny when I pushed her, but then she push me back and I don't like it... I don't wanna play anymore!"
Except that it sorta is... You post an idea, then get all upset when some people don't like it. You then proceed to go on a 12 page rant about how you can post what you like, but others can't. Keep in mind, I never once told you to stop posting. ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
To quote you...Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
And to quote myself...Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
Don't seem to recall ever personally saying you were only posting to showcase new art. However, if you can find it, I'll certainly admit I was wrong about that part. ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Minsc
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06-22-2011, 02:14 AMMinscQuote:
Originally Posted by Minsc
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
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06-22-2011, 02:15 AMkingfury--------------Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimble
You frequent a General discussion page on a Suggestion forum and you have zero input whatsoever other than tearing down other peoples suggestions? Lets change this right now man.
You mean to tell me there's not one single thing you can think to post that you would like to see either changed, enhanced, tweaked, or implemented in this game? Nothing? Kimble, just take a moment and think. I want to hear one good suggestion from you. Doesn't have to be a full all out post, I just want to hear a suggestion. One suggestion. -
06-22-2011, 02:15 AMStingRay104
throw in some player made equip and this is most epic idea ever, but beware most the gear will be pup gear cuz lets face it SE is clueless on pup gear lol.
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06-22-2011, 02:18 AMKimble
Lets stop there King. Other then saying your threads are just a forum to show off your artwork, how exactly have I "teared down" your ideas other then tell you why they wont work or why people wouldnt really be interested in them?
Pretty sure I already gave you a suggestion in this very same thread. -
06-22-2011, 02:21 AMCrystalWeapon
Going to make a few suggestions in a very nice way. It's up to you to follow them or not. It may or may not get people off of your back.
- Close this thread, it's gotten no positive feedback. It's ok to be proud of your ideas, but it's also fine to accept a loss now and then.
- When you get negative feedback, listen to it. Again, it's ok to be proud of your ideas, but it's also fine to accept a loss. If you have 8 people telling you something might not work out, adjust your original post or nix out what is a no go. Whether you see it or not, you do tend to brush off negative suggestions. At times it is like talking to a brick wall when they say "This would just not work out b/c of blah" and you come back with "Well I'm sure they'd find a way to do it."
- Post with the intention of "This would be cool to see, but I won't get my hopes up" instead of "Hey devs, you should add this" especially if the idea is kinda out there. I know you don't mean to be arrogant, but it does come that way still. You should really stop ending threads with the whole "Thanks for listening devs!" It's another thing that makes you seem a bit arrogant, and vying for attention.
- It's cool if you change your sig every week, but you don't have to force an idea every week. Try to focus on quality over quantity. Really think something out, and wait till you have something you think people would get behind. Come up with ideas that would make things more convient for the playerbase, and not just your specific situation.
- (This is a big one) Don't reply to every single person in your threads. I know you want to seem responsive, but it doesn't come out well when over half the responses in your thread are from you. I'm not saying to not respond to people, just cut back on how often you do it.
- Try to cut back on the drawings if you can. I know you're proud of your work, but not every idea warrants a handful of pictures. The focus of the thread should be the idea, not the artwork.
I don't want to douse your creativity. I just want to try and help you get it across without having such negative feedback every time you do so. Take my advice if you want. I'm not a mod so I'm done trying to calm the back and forth that's been going on since page 1. Resume the arguing if you want. -
06-22-2011, 02:22 AMkingfury
@ Minsc:
Having a discussion with you is just painful man. >< I honestly find it difficult to watch you break apart every single line and sentence and twist and misconstrue what's being said. It's the equivalent of this:• Kingfury says "A B C D E F G"
Nothing I've said is hard to understand Minsc, so watching you do this break apart thing with my post is very discouraging. I know how to have a mature discussion, so when you're ready to do that, I'm all for it.
• Minsc interprets "G C E A B F D" -
06-22-2011, 02:25 AMKimble
I'm pretty he HAS been having a mature discussion.
FYI Agreeing with everything you say =/= being mature. -
06-22-2011, 02:43 AMMinscNot twisting around anything, I quoted what you said and responded to what you said. Give me an example of me twisting your own words. Be sure to leave out, "I said this, but meant this..." in your example. Say what you mean n' stuffQuote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
Wow, actually a tad bit offended here... Am I to understand you think I'm mentally challenged? If not, again, say what you mean. Leave nothing to interpretation.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
So I'm mentally challenge and slow? LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
I understand everything you've said, doesn't mean I have to agree with it to be "mature".
Been trying to have a mature discussion with you, which is why I'm responding to ALL of your post of instead picking certain parts out and responding only to those. ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
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06-22-2011, 02:55 AMkingfury
@ CrystWpn.:
I can't except some of this stuff man, even though you have a pretty good track record for being a voice of reason. Some of these suggestions go hand and hand with the mentalities that want to put me in a box that forces me to be the same way everyone else feels I should be. Though some of these things I can respect and I thank you for offering up the advice.
I've never have a problem with "negative feedback" or opposing opinions with my threads. Again, it's the flamers that are not welcome. Anyone that wishes to have a discussion with me about any suggestion in a respectful manner is fine by me. "This idea is stupid" is not something I can really have a discussion about y'know?
I also don't weigh there worth based on what other posters believe about them. If I get a response from the Devs saying my idea is not possible or that it's not the directions they wish to go in, then I can chalk it up as "loss". How is it arrogant if I'm ending a post by addressing who it's being suggested to? There's no way anyone should find fault in my thankings to a group of very busy Game developers for having an "open door" policy to their players.
None of my ideas are "Forced". If I was posting a suggestion every single day of the week, perhaps, but posting at least one suggestion every week gives me plenty of time to think about what I want to say to the Devs. This goes hand and hand with my occasional illustrations that are included in most of my threads. It's not about being "proud" at all, as much as it's about me being an actual illustrator in real life. That's my profession, and how I help explain my thoughts. Anyone could do the same by using photos and other types of visual aids if they choose. I only add illustrations where I feel their helpful and the fact that they're super loose and sketchy is proof that I'm not trying to show off at all. Their simply sketches to help "illustrate" my thoughts.
Not responding to every post is something I'm trying to get better with, but some folks make it really hard lol. I'm trying to get better at ignoring the flame post, but boy is it tough. I'm not one to back down from a fight, or bullying, so it's a pretty new concept to say the least. I'll keep working on it though.
Closing a thread at these points, unfortunately, is about the best solution seeing as it has dragged on to this point.
Thanks again. -
06-22-2011, 03:02 AMMinscWhoa whoa whoa... How then do you know that I'm not a comedian in real life, or a big movie/TV buff? I've used a couple quotes to "illustrate my thoughts" and you found fault with it. LMAO!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
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06-22-2011, 03:04 AMKhiinroye
Your title is "Contests for Implementing Player Suggested Content" which DOES imply that the winner of the contest will have the idea implemented. IIRC, with the fanart contests, it was the community team who judged that, not the devs. For this suggestion, even with the community reps filtering for the obviously unbalanced gear, the dev team would still need to take time out of their schedule to analyze the balance of the suggestions that get passed to them. The test server could not be used to analyze the various items, because that would take the contest and change it from being a SE-judged contest to a community-judged contest, which could be organized without SE getting involved.
If you take out the stats or the implementation of the gear, then it is just another fanart contest, with different themes. I don't think anyone would mind that. I didn't see anyone oppose the suggestions from earlier in the thread of fanfiction contests (again, community rep judges and not the devs) or creating designs for no-stat event gear. The devs would still need to get involved via creating the armor/weapons, but the winner could be selected by the community team purely based on aesthetics, rather than game balance. For this thread, it is the suggestion of implementing of player-suggested gear with stats that people oppose.
This is not a "Suggestion forum," it is "General Discussion" forum in the "COMMUNITY" section which means that anything you put here is open to discussion, and is not a direct line to the devs. The dev team doesn't even read all these threads; the community reps do that, and they might pass good ideas to the devs. People responding to threads saying that ideas are bad because they can see that it is unbalanced, or they think it is a waste of time, or they plain don't want the developers to look at something they won't enjoy. People have differing opinions on suggestions, and any positive or negative feedback is an attempt to convince the reps as to whether or not the idea is good or bad, or just a fun idea that, while entertaining to discuss, really shouldn't be added.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
The "thanks for listening devs" at the end of all your suggestions implies that you think that the devs read all your posts; while this is a mistake on your part in how these forums work, it is easily misread as arrogance in assuming that all your suggestions get passed to the devs.
As to your current sig, Ifrit in FFXI has a short snout, the omission of which makes the face look distorted. I personally do not like the image--just my opinion, and the reason why I think so.
Not quite; it is fine to reply to everyone, but try to multiquote, rather than making a new post for each reply. You have up to 10,000 characters per post. There are many people on this forum guilty of that, and it is a peeve of many other people, as it is often seen as trying to pad the post count.Quote:
Originally Posted by CrystalWeapon
Nah, the pictures going with the ideas are fine, since they have to be links on these forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by CrystalWeapon
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06-22-2011, 03:11 AMKimble
See that was the idea I had. If the contest was to design the look of a level 1, body, no stat, piece of event gear that would then be added to the game, I would have no problem with that. I think something like that would be much more fun and less of a hassle.
Ive read the OP several times and I dont see anything there saying that but when I said it earlier in this thread, he tried to pass it off as it was part of his idea. -
06-22-2011, 03:19 AMCrystalWeapon
@ KF
It's all about perception. What you might see as a formality could be easily misinterpreted as something else. I'm just giving you insight on how certain things you do are viewed, and suggesting ways you could certain things so that you aren't viewed in that light. I'm in no way telling you, you HAVE to conform to this or that. -
06-22-2011, 03:26 AMkingfury----------------------Quote:
Originally Posted by Khiinroye
Thanks for the feedback ^^
--------------Quote:
Originally Posted by Khiinroye
Well, when the community team wants feedback and suggestions they prompt us to post in the correct place in terms of giving suggestions and feedback based on the content. If I'm not mistaken, General Discussion is the place for general suggestions about the game as a whole right?
---------------Quote:
Originally Posted by Khiinroye
Ughh, how things like this get misread to this degree kills me >< I'm simply thanking the Devs should the post get passed to them. I not posting my suggesting to the community team to approve, but rather the Dev team, so I thank the Dev team for the opportunity to hear my concept if it does reach their eyes and ears. That's really all there is to that. It's like signing at the bottom of a letter and addressing the person you're sending it to. No arrogance intended at all.
------------Quote:
Originally Posted by Khiinroye
Understandable. I think I was working from a screenshot on that one, but it's understandable.
---------------Quote:
Originally Posted by Khiinroye
I try to when it's only a few lines, but if it's paragraphs, it gets bloated real fast lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khiinroye
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06-22-2011, 03:33 AMkingfury---------------Quote:
Originally Posted by CrystalWeapon
Yeah I know man, but there's other factors at work too lol. Ones that no one wants to admit in a post, but they're there. My biggest defense is, and will always be communication. If anyone wants to clarify anything about me, just ask instead of assuming something.
Like I said, I except your advice that clearly will benefit me in future post like not responding to every single person lol and knowing when to close a thread ><. In any case, as always, I thank you for trying to add a positive tone to the thread man. / -
06-22-2011, 03:46 AMMinscFrom the POL Home Page...Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
Service and Support > Contact > Suggestions and Feedback
or use the link below...
https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...la=1&p=0&fo=41 -
06-22-2011, 03:50 AMkingfury
In terms of actually getting a response or feedback from the Devs based on your suggestions Minsc is what I meant. You get nada using that method.
On these boards, I'm asking if General Discussion is in fact the correct place to post suggestions to the Devs regarding the game as a whole. -
06-22-2011, 03:55 AMMinsc
And posting here has been working worlds better? ^^
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06-22-2011, 04:05 AMkingfury
Oh yeah, some responses is better than none. lol
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06-22-2011, 04:10 AMBorkBorkBork
King,
Please try to realize that part of a discussion is sometimes being told that your idea is a bad idea. There's always going to be people that flame for the sake of flaming but again like most of your threads lately you can't seem to grasp the concept of maybe all your ideas aren't great and when people tell you so you start circling the anti flamer wagons. You then fall back on the defense of well if you haven't started a thread I won't validate your argument. It makes you come off with the attitude of it's only a discussion if you will agree with me at the end. Nobody is saying you not entitled to your opinion and or ability to post suggestions, but people are also entitled to respond how they seem fit.
I tried explaining this to another lunatic on these forums, ahem starcade, but try to realize a few things. One it's the internet grow some thicker skin and maybe try not to respond to every post. Two again it's the internet once you post it's open to scrutiny and if you can't handle people poking fun at it and or responding in what you might see as a rude way don't post.
Also if your ideas are only for the dev team do everyone a favor and create and close the thread or go the the pol page and send in your suggestion from there.
Loosen up dude if you post something that's genuinely a good idea people will respond positively to it. If it's not a great idea people will tell you why and maybe it time to move on with the next new idea. -
06-22-2011, 04:30 AMkingfury
@ BorkBorkBork:
This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about where it's hard not to correct such things lol >< I'm trying to, but dang man it's hard to not respond when the things you've said gets distorted so.
How did you interpret me saying that "I have no problem whatsoever discussing opposing opinions done in a respectable manner in regards to my suggestions" as "It makes you come off with the attitude of it's only a discussion if you will agree with me at the end."? When have I ever bashed anyone for simply not agreeing with me Bork? Never, not once. If you disagree and provide a discussion that intel's you reason why you disagree, I'll respond accordingly if i agree or disagree with your reasons. I'll NEVER down someone because they don't agree with a suggestion I've posted Bork. EVER.
The same twisting that Kimble did with that line >< I said that my suggestions are to the Devs, and I'm not looking for anyone else's approval. ALL other feedback is welcome so long as it's not flame post attempting to tear down a suggestion just for the sport of it. Again, and again I've said I don't mind discussing anything with folks that actually want to discuss things lol. "Of all the idiots, in all the idiot villages, in all the idiot worlds, you stand alone, my friend." does not fall under respectfully attempting to hold a discussion does it? Nah, that's flaming just because they want to.
I'm not shaken or affected by what such posters are so willing to toss up at me personally, but I'm not shy when it comes to correcting wrong things either. I know why I'm posting the suggestions and I plan on continuing Bork. -
06-22-2011, 04:49 AMkingfury-----------Quote:
Originally Posted by Minsc
Oh c'mon Minsc, gimmie a break man! >< My illustrations don't call people "Idiots" like your nice quotes do. Find better sources for your quotes that don't belittle folks and you can post'em to my threads all day. lol -
06-22-2011, 04:50 AMKimble
That, or maybe you could grow a sense of humor.
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06-22-2011, 04:53 AMkingfury
You better grow an original suggestion Kimble lol I'm not gonna drop that challenge for you till you do. ^^
See, that's funny! :D -
06-22-2011, 04:58 AMBorkBorkBork
lmao king
I wasn't trying to bash you but you seem to not understand why all of your threads end up this way and your response is proof of that. It's internet dude try taking things with a grain of salt and stop taking everything so personal. If you can't handle criticism and flaming don't open yourself up to it.
As for your accusations of me twisting your words... lol there seems to be 15 pages of people that think the same thing. I personally don't care about you as I don't know you and you have nothing to do with my real life. I responded as to why I thought this was a terrible idea you disagreed I moved on because to me there was no point in discussing it further. Call it agreeing to disagree.
I've tried to point out to you previously how you come off but the only thing you can say is basically your twisting my words people don't understand bla bla bla. Seriously take a step back for a second and take a deep breathe. Whether what you say are your intentions or not its how your seen is the problem. You really ought to try to exercise some restraint and not defend yourself against every single post that someone puts on your thread. People in general don't care if you get upset about it on a personal level but you only feed the flames by responding to everything.
Post your stuff, do your drawings and again if its a good idea people will respond accordingly. If you go off like a maniac defending every single post you might as well sit down and loosen up your fingers for 15 pages of pointless circular conversation.
I'm going to do what you should do with most your threads is walk away and let the flames die down.
On a side note king when you make a thread it becomes everyone's thread.... might be part of the problem. -
06-22-2011, 05:00 AMkingfury-----------------Quote:
Originally Posted by StingRay104
Agreed. Thanks for the feedback. /
Poor PUP :( -
06-22-2011, 05:03 AMMinscAgain, say what you mean, leave nothing to interpretation.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
Once again, you post an idea, then get all upset when some people don't like it. You then proceed to go on a 12 page rant about how you can post what you like, but others can't. You have this mindset of, "Respond in the manner I want you to respond or don't respond at all". That's where people get an attitude from you. "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say it at all" doesn't exactly fit in a free forum where you are welcoming feedback.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
I'm sure I could find a couple more if I dug deep enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
But that's just it, you don't always do this. You tend to disagree with one of the following...Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
The DEVs can do anything if they can imagine it.
It can be done if you're creative.
Well thats for the DEVs to decide!
Nah you're wrong, with advances in technology it CAN be done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
And now we come back to that same mindset of, "Respond in the manner I want you to respond or don't respond at all".Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
But but but but...Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
I'm just using a couple quotes to "illustrate my thoughts".Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
Awesome! As I've always said, keeping them ideas coming!Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
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06-22-2011, 05:04 AMKimble
Check the thread because I already gave you an idea pages ago.
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06-22-2011, 05:17 AMkingfury
@ Bork:
I never said you bashed me Bork lol, and allowing folks to freely misenterpret what you say is of course any individuals choice. I choose to address it if I feel I can correct the misunderstanding when ever I can. This is such a case. You're at least trying to have a conversation which is why I'm even taking the time to show you that respect back. You didn't have to post at all in my thread, but since you did, I'm responding.
It's a strange concept to me to let folks say whatever they want to say about you and you have to the same power to use to correct those sayings. The 15 pages of folks thinking the same thing is truly unfortunate, but it's not because I'm changing my stance on matter of addressing people that address me. It's not so much about caring about that person as it's about showing common courtesy.
lol I'm not going off like a manic at all lol. At least not yet! ^^ I blame text communication for much of the misconceptions that happen throughout these threads since I can't convey on every level my tone, sense of humor, and manner of which I'm communicating.
Simply put, if I say something, and you interpret it the wrong way and try to toss it back at me in a negative way, then yeah, I'll try to correct that. I'm not hard to talk to, but that kind of thing can get frustrating after a while.
Thanks for the advice Bork. -
06-22-2011, 05:22 AMkingfury
oh man, stop it Minsc >< that's just terrible to read through! Just type it out in a paragraph or something dude please. I can respond to a paragraph. I don't even dare to respond to all that. lol
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06-22-2011, 05:23 AMKimble
Makes it easier than reading a wall of text.
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06-22-2011, 05:24 AMkingfuryYou know what I mean ^^ I said an "Original" one. Like something you specifically care about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimble
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06-22-2011, 05:25 AMMinsc"Respond in the manner I want you to respond or don't respond at all".Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
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06-22-2011, 05:25 AMkingfury-----------Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimble
Just makes it long and drawn out to me >,< gimmie those short walls of text please lol